Binance and FTX

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Warren was not a beneficiary of SBF's campaign donations; she was not running for re-election.

I don't know if there is any money left from the money he donated from this election round. There also appears to be a legal precedent that holds recipients of campaign donations not liable if they did not know the money was the fruit of fraud. So, likely no clawback for the clients.

His donations appear to have been quite apart from his mother's super PAC, Mind the Gap. That PAC's donation to this round of elections appears to have been in the hundred of thousands.

The penthouse condo has just been listed for $40 million:

https://www.seasidebahamas.com/view/NassauNew+Providence/Orchid+Bldg.+-+PH+6/20046/buy/

LOL. You’ve clearly never been involved in political fundraising.

Good point--but I have not read anywhere that she was recipient of SBF's largesse. That doesn't rule it out, I suppose.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dem donors are the best.

Is it true that Ukraine is also involved?

This much is true: Ukraine partnered with FTX in launching a crypto donation site on FTX for Ukraine.

https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2022/03/14/ukraine-partners-with-ftx-everstake-to-launch-new-crypto-donation-website/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dem donors are the best.

Is it true that Ukraine is also involved?

No idea but I wouldn't be surprised if the FTX guy had bought millions of Biden Jr's "art."

You have to respect the chutzpah.

Seems like every single person involved was a person of chutzpah.

This scandal had better be thoroughly investigated.

Kevin O'Leary (Mr. Wonderful of Shark Tank fame) is a big investor in FTX international. His investment is now worth $0. His video message to whoever cares is "I lost money in this investment. I'm taking the next flight to Washington and demanding regulation in this domain".

Crypto (and associated crap like NFTs) are a major ponzi scheme meant to part a fool from his money. Needs to be regulated so the gullible aren't left holding the bag.

Crypto=Tulip bulbs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Crypto (and associated crap like NFTs) are a major ponzi scheme meant to part a fool from his money. Needs to be regulated so the gullible aren't left holding the bag.

My concern with regulation here is that it would legitimize crypto as a valid investment choice. This could lead to more Aunt Millies getting screwed out of their life savings because they thought that regulation meant that it would be safe to buy into a highly speculative market. At least now people know that crypto is unregulated and offers zero protections (government or otherwise) to the buyer/owner.

That and it potentially lead to a "crypto bailout" a la "student loan forgiveness"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Crypto (and associated crap like NFTs) are a major ponzi scheme meant to part a fool from his money. Needs to be regulated so the gullible aren't left holding the bag.

My concern with regulation here is that it would legitimize crypto as a valid investment choice. This could lead to more Aunt Millies getting screwed out of their life savings because they thought that regulation meant that it would be safe to buy into a highly speculative market. At least now people know that crypto is unregulated and offers zero protections (government or otherwise) to the buyer/owner.

That and it potentially lead to a "crypto bailout" a la "student loan forgiveness"

Exactly we need to let it burn.

[Anonymous]

People are confusing the question of whether decentralized cryptoassets like bitcoin are a worthwhile store of value or investment with what happened with FTX.

You can buy or sell crypto without an exchange as it was down in the earlier years of bitcoin and you can store it offline on a hard drive that you guard like a bar of gold.

An exchange, however, makes it much easier to buy and sell and, in principle, you don't have to worry about safeguarding the bitcoin you buy there because the exchange safeguards it for you. In highly regulated exchange arrangements, this safeguarding is generally done through an arrangement with a highly regulated bank or broker dealer.

This did not happen with FTX because, as an exchange, it was very lightly regulated and it, not a bank or broker dealer, was the custodian of customer assets. The owners of the exchange lent customer assets to a struggling trading affiliate, which immediately lost them on their bets and could not recover sufficiently to return the customer assets to the exchange.

The problem here is what the owners of the exchange did with customers' cryptoassets, not the cryptoassets themselves. It is a repeat of a crime we have seen over and over again over the decades in which a trustee pilfers the assets they are supposed to be protecting.

Whether decentralized cryptoassets like bitcoin et al are worthwhile stores of value or investments is a completely separate question, the answers to which shed no light on what happened in the FTX blow up, which just as well could have involved stocks, or foreign currencies, or pork bellies.

If you believe it does, you will miss the real lessons of FTX.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Will Dems have to return the $50+ million they got?

Was Sen. Warren among the beneficiaries?

Dems didn’t get the money. SBF put $50m into a PAC, which then spent the money on election efforts. Any assets remaining in the PAC would be seized by U.S. bankruptcy court, but I doubt there’s anything left

So Dems got the money

+1

Should the mid-terms be voted again, now without the taint of such a fraudster?

At the very least the beneficiaries should return the money to the scammed investors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Will Dems have to return the $50+ million they got?

Was Sen. Warren among the beneficiaries?

Dems didn’t get the money. SBF put $50m into a PAC, which then spent the money on election efforts. Any assets remaining in the PAC would be seized by U.S. bankruptcy court, but I doubt there’s anything left

So Dems got the money

+1

Should the mid-terms be voted again, now without the taint of such a fraudster?

At the very least the beneficiaries should return the money to the scammed investors.

That's not how the constitution works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone else been following the FTX and Binance drama? The two companies were rivals and the Binance CEO tweeted some negative things about FTX which caused them to go bankrupt. My question is: isn’t this illegal? Did Binance cause a run on a bank, which is illegal? I have no stake I’m just fascinated by this train wreck. Billions of dollars just evaporated.

I'd suggest you read beyond one headline. That's absolutely not the cause of what happened and you need to do a lot more reading to understand the full picture.

+1

here is a decent explanation of just how f'ed up crypto really is and that all of this is one huge scam.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/15/how-sam-bankman-frieds-ftx-alameda-empire-vanished-overnight.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone else been following the FTX and Binance drama? The two companies were rivals and the Binance CEO tweeted some negative things about FTX which caused them to go bankrupt. My question is: isn’t this illegal? Did Binance cause a run on a bank, which is illegal? I have no stake I’m just fascinated by this train wreck. Billions of dollars just evaporated.

I'd suggest you read beyond one headline. That's absolutely not the cause of what happened and you need to do a lot more reading to understand the full picture.

+1

here is a decent explanation of just how f'ed up crypto really is and that all of this is one huge scam.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/15/how-sam-bankman-frieds-ftx-alameda-empire-vanished-overnight.html

So he’s still a multimillionaire?

[Anonymous]

FTX's Chapter 11 First day affifavit was filed today. It is really bad. They didn't have any employee records nor any financial controls.

To quote the CEO brought in to deal with this,
"never in my career have I seen such a complete failure of corporate controls and such a complete absence of trustworthy financial information as occured here"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People are confusing the question of whether decentralized cryptoassets like bitcoin are a worthwhile store of value or investment with what happened with FTX.

You can buy or sell crypto without an exchange as it was down in the earlier years of bitcoin and you can store it offline on a hard drive that you guard like a bar of gold.

An exchange, however, makes it much easier to buy and sell and, in principle, you don't have to worry about safeguarding the bitcoin you buy there because the exchange safeguards it for you. In highly regulated exchange arrangements, this safeguarding is generally done through an arrangement with a highly regulated bank or broker dealer.

This did not happen with FTX because, as an exchange, it was very lightly regulated and it, not a bank or broker dealer, was the custodian of customer assets. The owners of the exchange lent customer assets to a struggling trading affiliate, which immediately lost them on their bets and could not recover sufficiently to return the customer assets to the exchange.

The problem here is what the owners of the exchange did with customers' cryptoassets, not the cryptoassets themselves. It is a repeat of a crime we have seen over and over again over the decades in which a trustee pilfers the assets they are supposed to be protecting.

Whether decentralized cryptoassets like bitcoin et al are worthwhile stores of value or investments is a completely separate question, the answers to which shed no light on what happened in the FTX blow up, which just as well could have involved stocks, or foreign currencies, or pork bellies.

If you believe it does, you will miss the real lessons of FTX.

How do you buy crypto without an exchange? The only way I know is to mine it or buy with fiat thru exchange? Someday if crypto stabilizes and you use it to purchase goods or get paid for work than that would be an option. But it’s hard to do without trust — like if I sell my car for crypto, I have to see it enter my wallet before handing over the keys. Of course the swings in value make that uncertain, I could end up with far less return if price of crypto plummets right after I sell it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FTX's Chapter 11 First day affifavit was filed today. It is really bad. They didn't have any employee records nor any financial controls.

To quote the CEO brought in to deal with this,
"never in my career have I seen such a complete failure of corporate controls and such a complete absence of trustworthy financial information as occured here"

Link to filing:

https://bkdata.com/business-bankruptcies/delaware-...e/11-11-2022/ftx-trading-11068

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People are confusing the question of whether decentralized cryptoassets like bitcoin are a worthwhile store of value or investment with what happened with FTX.

You can buy or sell crypto without an exchange as it was down in the earlier years of bitcoin and you can store it offline on a hard drive that you guard like a bar of gold.

An exchange, however, makes it much easier to buy and sell and, in principle, you don't have to worry about safeguarding the bitcoin you buy there because the exchange safeguards it for you. In highly regulated exchange arrangements, this safeguarding is generally done through an arrangement with a highly regulated bank or broker dealer.

This did not happen with FTX because, as an exchange, it was very lightly regulated and it, not a bank or broker dealer, was the custodian of customer assets. The owners of the exchange lent customer assets to a struggling trading affiliate, which immediately lost them on their bets and could not recover sufficiently to return the customer assets to the exchange.

The problem here is what the owners of the exchange did with customers' cryptoassets, not the cryptoassets themselves. It is a repeat of a crime we have seen over and over again over the decades in which a trustee pilfers the assets they are supposed to be protecting.

Whether decentralized cryptoassets like bitcoin et al are worthwhile stores of value or investments is a completely separate question, the answers to which shed no light on what happened in the FTX blow up, which just as well could have involved stocks, or foreign currencies, or pork bellies.

If you believe it does, you will miss the real lessons of FTX.

But inherently how do you value a crypto asset? They were issuing FTT tokens, kept 98% on their books and sold 2% on “open market” (I’m guessing actually wash trade) and this set a “value” for the FTT tokens which they then used on their balance sheet. Any crypto has this artifact where they are thinly traded but claim to have certain values. I guess they could do similar thing with stock issuance?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People are confusing the question of whether decentralized cryptoassets like bitcoin are a worthwhile store of value or investment with what happened with FTX.

You can buy or sell crypto without an exchange as it was down in the earlier years of bitcoin and you can store it offline on a hard drive that you guard like a bar of gold.

An exchange, however, makes it much easier to buy and sell and, in principle, you don't have to worry about safeguarding the bitcoin you buy there because the exchange safeguards it for you. In highly regulated exchange arrangements, this safeguarding is generally done through an arrangement with a highly regulated bank or broker dealer.

This did not happen with FTX because, as an exchange, it was very lightly regulated and it, not a bank or broker dealer, was the custodian of customer assets. The owners of the exchange lent customer assets to a struggling trading affiliate, which immediately lost them on their bets and could not recover sufficiently to return the customer assets to the exchange.

The problem here is what the owners of the exchange did with customers' cryptoassets, not the cryptoassets themselves. It is a repeat of a crime we have seen over and over again over the decades in which a trustee pilfers the assets they are supposed to be protecting.

Whether decentralized cryptoassets like bitcoin et al are worthwhile stores of value or investments is a completely separate question, the answers to which shed no light on what happened in the FTX blow up, which just as well could have involved stocks, or foreign currencies, or pork bellies.

If you believe it does, you will miss the real lessons of FTX.

How do you buy crypto without an exchange? The only way I know is to mine it or buy with fiat thru exchange? Someday if crypto stabilizes and you use it to purchase goods or get paid for work than that would be an option. But it’s hard to do without trust — like if I sell my car for crypto, I have to see it enter my wallet before handing over the keys. Of course the swings in value make that uncertain, I could end up with far less return if price of crypto plummets right after I sell it.

This, plus there is a long list of previously respectable crypto exchanges that have recently failed. There is no SPIC and there are no separate accounts in the case of bankruptcy- it's just one big pool and the account holders are unsecured creditors. If you want the non-fradulent version of FFX, look at the Celsius bankruptcy