Help DS Decide: Duke ED or Harvard/Princeton REA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I disagree with some of the PP, I think given what you've said about your son (1580, salutatorian, good leadership, some unique national awards, well-rounded and should have good essays) he has a very good shot at Duke ED. If you want to see the profiles of some people who got into Duke this past admissions cycle, check out https://www.reddit.com/r/collegeresults/.

Here's some kids with similar demographics (non-URM) to start you off:

1. https://www.reddit.com/r/collegeresults/comments/tvqkjm/asian_boy_clutches_up_after_a_disappointing_early/

Asian male, upper middle class, 1600 SAT, 3.9 GPA, good ECs without much leadership, strong awards, applied early decision but was deferred

Accepted: Duke (committed), Yale, Dartmouth, Williams, Bowdoin, UNC, etc.

2. https://www.reddit.com/r/collegeresults/comments/u3il9l/rural_new_englander_hits_it_big/

White male, rural middle class, econ major, 35 ACT, 4.0 GPA, decent ECs with some leadership, average awards, applied regular decision

Accepted: Duke, Princeton (committed), Stanford, Brown, Georgetown, Vanderbilt, WashU, etc.

3. https://www.reddit.com/r/collegeresults/comments/w0vqxp/asian_indecisive_procrastinator_shotgunner_made/

Asian female, first gen low income, econ major, 1540 SAT, 4.0 GPA, decent ECs with some leadership, average awards, applied regular decision

Accepted: Duke (committed), Penn Wharton, Dartmouth, Cornell, Northwestern, Johns Hopkins, Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore, Bowdoin, UNC, etc.

4. https://www.reddit.com/r/collegeresults/comments/vv3jxi/farm_girl_gets_pleasantly_surprised_ivies_and/

White female, rural low income, 34 ACT, valedictorian, decent ECs with some leadership, average awards, applied regular decision

Accepted: Duke (committed), Stanford, Yale, Penn, Brown, Notre Dame, UVA, UNC, etc.

5. https://www.reddit.com/r/collegeresults/comments/v5hvor/spikey_asian_male_in_stem_does_well_w_t20s/

Asian male, upper middle class, 36 ACT, valedictorian, good ECs with leadership, average awards, applied regular decision

Accepted: Duke, MIT (committed), Caltech, Yale, Dartmouth, Cornell, Vanderbilt, UMich, Georgia Tech, USC, etc.

6. https://www.reddit.com/r/collegeresults/comments/vmss2e/the_results_of_someone_that_spent_only_3_hours_on/

Asian female, upper middle class, econ major, 1490 SAT, 4.0 GPA, decent ECs with some leadership, average awards, applied regular decision

Accepted: Duke (committed), Princeton, Cornell, Northwestern, UChicago, UMich, USC, etc.

7. https://www.reddit.com/r/collegeresults/comments/tw3646/southern_boy_with_a_dream_rejected_from_hypsm/

White male, middle class, 35 ACT, 4.0 GPA, decent ECs with some leadership, average awards, applied regular decision

Accepted: Duke (committed), Penn, Brown, Cornell, Rice, Johns Hopkins, Georgetown, WashU, Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore, Notre Dame, UNC

8. https://www.reddit.com/r/collegeresults/comments/vgslvm/indian_premed_girl_gets_really_lucky/

Asian female, low income, 36 ACT, valedictorian, decent ECs with some leadership, average awards, applied regular decision

Accepted: Duke (committed), Northwestern, Rice, WashU, UMich, UNC, USC, etc.

9. https://www.reddit.com/r/collegeresults/comments/vqwmz0/big_surprise_for_boring_white_male_from_northeast/

White male, upper middle class, 1570 SAT, 4.0 GPA, decent ECs with some leadership, average awards, applied regular decision

Accepted: Duke, Harvard (committed), UChicago, Georgetown, UMich, etc.

10. https://www.reddit.com/r/collegeresults/comments/uqftiu/white_guy_in_cs_turns_down_hypsm/

White male, middle class, CS/econ major, 1560 SAT, 4.0 GPA, good ECs with leadership, strong awards, applied regular decision

Accepted: Duke (committed), Princeton, Brown, Johns Hopkins, UChicago, Georgia Tech, etc.

It's hard to really judge by this without seeing the essays and recommendations though. Of course on paper all of them are strong and seem to hit some minimum standard.

+1 the numbers for the kids getting in will mostly be the same, this doesn't tell us much. The most interesting one was probably the 1490 Asian girl getting into Duke and Princeton.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not sure if anyone else is making (or has already made) the same choice with their family with some combination of these schools. DS is the oldest and going to be the first one we send off to college, so it's our first crack at the egg. DS is a great kid and has become more than we could have hoped for, and his current plan is to study economics/public policy to go alongside something more quantitative (perhaps statistics). I know it's more than likely he'll change his mind at least once in college, as often happens, so we're focusing more on his general likes and dislikes. His guidance counselor says DS would have a chance (of course no guarantees) at any school: for context he has a 1580 on his SAT, currently on track to be salutatorian of his class, captain of a varsity sport and playing another, spends his time volunteering generously, is very active in clubs at school, and has multiple national level awards. We have run financial aid estimates at his top choice schools and we feel comfortable with the cost, and we expect he'll be working in some capacity at least during the summers.

He likes Duke for many reasons: great academics, great school spirit, and a competitive club sports culture. We made a last-minute visit with him last month and he was in love with the campus and enjoyed the students he talked with very much. It overall seems like "the best" fit for him, which is why he is considering early decision there. We'd be more than happy to send him there as well, the alumni network seems very strong.

On the other hand, Harvard and Princeton were his longtime dream schools, and although Duke has caught up for him it is still a "newer" school for us, as he has mentally been preparing to try for Harvard or Princeton for a few years now.

We're unsure if he should be limiting himself to just one choice by doing early decision, or if he should keep his options more open. Another big factor is from what we've read, Duke early decision seems to provide an advantage for getting accepted, while Harvard and Princeton restrictive early action don't seem to help compared to regular decision. We would hate to see the difference between a Duke acceptance and rejection come down to whether he did early decision or not, and we know regular decision at Duke is incredibly competitive.

Any thoughts/similar experiences would be much appreciated!

Duke is phenomenal and your DS seems to really like the school. If he can get in and your willing to pay the $$$, take it and run. From what I'm seeing he should have a good chance at Duke ED.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I disagree with some of the PP, I think given what you've said about your son (1580, salutatorian, good leadership, some unique national awards, well-rounded and should have good essays) he has a very good shot at Duke ED. If you want to see the profiles of some people who got into Duke this past admissions cycle, check out https://www.reddit.com/r/collegeresults/.

Here's some kids with similar demographics (non-URM) to start you off:

1. https://www.reddit.com/r/collegeresults/comments/tvqkjm/asian_boy_clutches_up_after_a_disappointing_early/

Asian male, upper middle class, 1600 SAT, 3.9 GPA, good ECs without much leadership, strong awards, applied early decision but was deferred

Accepted: Duke (committed), Yale, Dartmouth, Williams, Bowdoin, UNC, etc.

2. https://www.reddit.com/r/collegeresults/comments/u3il9l/rural_new_englander_hits_it_big/

White male, rural middle class, econ major, 35 ACT, 4.0 GPA, decent ECs with some leadership, average awards, applied regular decision

Accepted: Duke, Princeton (committed), Stanford, Brown, Georgetown, Vanderbilt, WashU, etc.

3. https://www.reddit.com/r/collegeresults/comments/w0vqxp/asian_indecisive_procrastinator_shotgunner_made/

Asian female, first gen low income, econ major, 1540 SAT, 4.0 GPA, decent ECs with some leadership, average awards, applied regular decision

Accepted: Duke (committed), Penn Wharton, Dartmouth, Cornell, Northwestern, Johns Hopkins, Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore, Bowdoin, UNC, etc.

4. https://www.reddit.com/r/collegeresults/comments/vv3jxi/farm_girl_gets_pleasantly_surprised_ivies_and/

White female, rural low income, 34 ACT, valedictorian, decent ECs with some leadership, average awards, applied regular decision

Accepted: Duke (committed), Stanford, Yale, Penn, Brown, Notre Dame, UVA, UNC, etc.

5. https://www.reddit.com/r/collegeresults/comments/v5hvor/spikey_asian_male_in_stem_does_well_w_t20s/

Asian male, upper middle class, 36 ACT, valedictorian, good ECs with leadership, average awards, applied regular decision

Accepted: Duke, MIT (committed), Caltech, Yale, Dartmouth, Cornell, Vanderbilt, UMich, Georgia Tech, USC, etc.

6. https://www.reddit.com/r/collegeresults/comments/vmss2e/the_results_of_someone_that_spent_only_3_hours_on/

Asian female, upper middle class, econ major, 1490 SAT, 4.0 GPA, decent ECs with some leadership, average awards, applied regular decision

Accepted: Duke (committed), Princeton, Cornell, Northwestern, UChicago, UMich, USC, etc.

7. https://www.reddit.com/r/collegeresults/comments/tw3646/southern_boy_with_a_dream_rejected_from_hypsm/

White male, middle class, 35 ACT, 4.0 GPA, decent ECs with some leadership, average awards, applied regular decision

Accepted: Duke (committed), Penn, Brown, Cornell, Rice, Johns Hopkins, Georgetown, WashU, Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore, Notre Dame, UNC

8. https://www.reddit.com/r/collegeresults/comments/vgslvm/indian_premed_girl_gets_really_lucky/

Asian female, low income, 36 ACT, valedictorian, decent ECs with some leadership, average awards, applied regular decision

Accepted: Duke (committed), Northwestern, Rice, WashU, UMich, UNC, USC, etc.

9. https://www.reddit.com/r/collegeresults/comments/vqwmz0/big_surprise_for_boring_white_male_from_northeast/

White male, upper middle class, 1570 SAT, 4.0 GPA, decent ECs with some leadership, average awards, applied regular decision

Accepted: Duke, Harvard (committed), UChicago, Georgetown, UMich, etc.

10. https://www.reddit.com/r/collegeresults/comments/uqftiu/white_guy_in_cs_turns_down_hypsm/

White male, middle class, CS/econ major, 1560 SAT, 4.0 GPA, good ECs with leadership, strong awards, applied regular decision

Accepted: Duke (committed), Princeton, Brown, Johns Hopkins, UChicago, Georgia Tech, etc.

The farm girl has an awesome story, totally deserved!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These are all lottery schools. Just let your kid decide which one he likes best.

Duke ED is not a lottery in view of this student's status because it is binding. Harvard/Princeton truly is.

Yeah it is still a lottery. The fact that it is binding doesn’t affect the fact that they will have tons of qualified applicants to chose among.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I disagree with some of the PP, I think given what you've said about your son (1580, salutatorian, good leadership, some unique national awards, well-rounded and should have good essays) he has a very good shot at Duke ED. If you want to see the profiles of some people who got into Duke this past admissions cycle, check out https://www.reddit.com/r/collegeresults/.

Here's some kids with similar demographics (non-URM) to start you off:

1. https://www.reddit.com/r/collegeresults/comments/tvqkjm/asian_boy_clutches_up_after_a_disappointing_early/

Asian male, upper middle class, 1600 SAT, 3.9 GPA, good ECs without much leadership, strong awards, applied early decision but was deferred

Accepted: Duke (committed), Yale, Dartmouth, Williams, Bowdoin, UNC, etc.

2. https://www.reddit.com/r/collegeresults/comments/u3il9l/rural_new_englander_hits_it_big/

White male, rural middle class, econ major, 35 ACT, 4.0 GPA, decent ECs with some leadership, average awards, applied regular decision

Accepted: Duke, Princeton (committed), Stanford, Brown, Georgetown, Vanderbilt, WashU, etc.

3. https://www.reddit.com/r/collegeresults/comments/w0vqxp/asian_indecisive_procrastinator_shotgunner_made/

Asian female, first gen low income, econ major, 1540 SAT, 4.0 GPA, decent ECs with some leadership, average awards, applied regular decision

Accepted: Duke (committed), Penn Wharton, Dartmouth, Cornell, Northwestern, Johns Hopkins, Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore, Bowdoin, UNC, etc.

4. https://www.reddit.com/r/collegeresults/comments/vv3jxi/farm_girl_gets_pleasantly_surprised_ivies_and/

White female, rural low income, 34 ACT, valedictorian, decent ECs with some leadership, average awards, applied regular decision

Accepted: Duke (committed), Stanford, Yale, Penn, Brown, Notre Dame, UVA, UNC, etc.

5. https://www.reddit.com/r/collegeresults/comments/v5hvor/spikey_asian_male_in_stem_does_well_w_t20s/

Asian male, upper middle class, 36 ACT, valedictorian, good ECs with leadership, average awards, applied regular decision

Accepted: Duke, MIT (committed), Caltech, Yale, Dartmouth, Cornell, Vanderbilt, UMich, Georgia Tech, USC, etc.

6. https://www.reddit.com/r/collegeresults/comments/vmss2e/the_results_of_someone_that_spent_only_3_hours_on/

Asian female, upper middle class, econ major, 1490 SAT, 4.0 GPA, decent ECs with some leadership, average awards, applied regular decision

Accepted: Duke (committed), Princeton, Cornell, Northwestern, UChicago, UMich, USC, etc.

7. https://www.reddit.com/r/collegeresults/comments/tw3646/southern_boy_with_a_dream_rejected_from_hypsm/

White male, middle class, 35 ACT, 4.0 GPA, decent ECs with some leadership, average awards, applied regular decision

Accepted: Duke (committed), Penn, Brown, Cornell, Rice, Johns Hopkins, Georgetown, WashU, Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore, Notre Dame, UNC

8. https://www.reddit.com/r/collegeresults/comments/vgslvm/indian_premed_girl_gets_really_lucky/

Asian female, low income, 36 ACT, valedictorian, decent ECs with some leadership, average awards, applied regular decision

Accepted: Duke (committed), Northwestern, Rice, WashU, UMich, UNC, USC, etc.

9. https://www.reddit.com/r/collegeresults/comments/vqwmz0/big_surprise_for_boring_white_male_from_northeast/

White male, upper middle class, 1570 SAT, 4.0 GPA, decent ECs with some leadership, average awards, applied regular decision

Accepted: Duke, Harvard (committed), UChicago, Georgetown, UMich, etc.

10. https://www.reddit.com/r/collegeresults/comments/uqftiu/white_guy_in_cs_turns_down_hypsm/

White male, middle class, CS/econ major, 1560 SAT, 4.0 GPA, good ECs with leadership, strong awards, applied regular decision

Accepted: Duke (committed), Princeton, Brown, Johns Hopkins, UChicago, Georgia Tech, etc.

Really cool to read through, thanks for putting this together. I felt like the Indian pre-med girl got seriously under-appreciated by colleges, she was strong all-around and low income. It must be really competitive for Indians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Now people are getting a little too negative perhaps.
He has a really strong profile and will have a good shot at duke ED.
The other two are total lotteries.
(And your overall list looks good).

My non scientific for my child with a similar profile trying for a slightly less competitive ED than duke is that they have about a 75% chance. They will probably get in and are certainly qualified! But for teenagers I think it’s important to help them understand that the 25% chance of not getting in is quite real.

It’s the reverse actually, you are vastly overstating your kid’s odds. Greater than 75 percent chance your kid will not get in at a T20 school, especially without a hook.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Now people are getting a little too negative perhaps.
He has a really strong profile and will have a good shot at duke ED.
The other two are total lotteries.
(And your overall list looks good).

My non scientific for my child with a similar profile trying for a slightly less competitive ED than duke is that they have about a 75% chance. They will probably get in and are certainly qualified! But for teenagers I think it’s important to help them understand that the 25% chance of not getting in is quite real.

It’s the reverse actually, you are vastly overstating your kid’s odds. Greater than 75 percent chance your kid will not get in at a T20 school, especially without a hook.

How do you know that? You don't know anything about that person's kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Now people are getting a little too negative perhaps.
He has a really strong profile and will have a good shot at duke ED.
The other two are total lotteries.
(And your overall list looks good).

My non scientific for my child with a similar profile trying for a slightly less competitive ED than duke is that they have about a 75% chance. They will probably get in and are certainly qualified! But for teenagers I think it’s important to help them understand that the 25% chance of not getting in is quite real.

It’s the reverse actually, you are vastly overstating your kid’s odds. Greater than 75 percent chance your kid will not get in at a T20 school, especially without a hook.

How do you know that? You don't know anything about that person's kid.

Because acceptance rates are published? And so are the statistics of accepted kids. The fact is that all of the T20 kids could fill a class five times over with high stat kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Now people are getting a little too negative perhaps.
He has a really strong profile and will have a good shot at duke ED.
The other two are total lotteries.
(And your overall list looks good).

My non scientific for my child with a similar profile trying for a slightly less competitive ED than duke is that they have about a 75% chance. They will probably get in and are certainly qualified! But for teenagers I think it’s important to help them understand that the 25% chance of not getting in is quite real.

It’s the reverse actually, you are vastly overstating your kid’s odds. Greater than 75 percent chance your kid will not get in at a T20 school, especially without a hook.

How do you know that? You don't know anything about that person's kid.

Because acceptance rates are published? And so are the statistics of accepted kids. The fact is that all of the T20 kids could fill a class five times over with high stat kids.

Sad but true. Acceptance rates plummeted again last year. So many great high stats kids. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Princeton. Significantly reduces the chance of your kid becoming an a-hole.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Princeton. Significantly reduces the chance of your kid becoming an a-hole.

Are you sure you're thinking of the correct Princeton? The one with eating clubs and the single largest alcohol consumption event in the US annually right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Princeton. Significantly reduces the chance of your kid becoming an a-hole.

Are you sure you're thinking of the correct Princeton? The one with eating clubs and the single largest alcohol consumption event in the US annually right?

+1

[Anonymous]

Is your kid unsure or are you unsure? It sounds like your son wants Duke.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is your kid unsure or are you unsure? It sounds like your son wants Duke.

Not OP, but I think the parents are unsure because OP said "We're unsure if he should be limiting himself to just one choice by doing early decision, or if he should keep his options more open."

[Anonymous]

OP: Your son has outstanding qualifications.

It may help to look at the freshmen retention rates of elite universities. I will list all National Universities and SLACs with a retention rate of 96% or higher followed by retention rates of schools that are of interest to your son.

99%--MIT & Chicago

98%--Duke, Northwestern, & Notre Dame (Northeastern in Boston as well)

97%--Brown, CalTech, Carnegie Mellon, Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth College, Georgia Tech, Johns Hopkins, Rice, UCLA, UCal-Berkeley, U Florida, Michigan, U Penn, Virginia, & Vanderbilt. (SLACs USMA at West Point, USNA--Annapolis, and Wash & Lee.)

96%--Stanford, Georgetown, UNC, Texas, Villanova, & WashUStL. (SLACs Amherst College, Williams College, Harvey Mudd, and Wellesley College.)

95%--University of Maryland-College Park.

94%--Princeton University & College of William & Mary.

92%--Harvard.

90%--Yale & Fordham.