Why are teachers and nurses underpaid?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teachers in FFX County start around $53K. That seems like a fine starting wage for a college grad. Even better considering time off in the summer.

It is excellent, actually.

Excellent compared to...?

I have a degree in math & a second in math education. When I was applying for jobs (when teaching was hard to get a position) if I threw out the second degree I had offers in industry for nearly 6 figures. If I included the masters and sought out teaching positions, my offers were half.

I teach because I love it and I really feel it makes a difference, but absolutely not because the salary is excellent for what it is.

It used to be the perks were excellent and made up for low salaries (leave at 3 for appointments or to meet contractors, able to be home when your kids got home from school, able to do work at home in the evenings after kids went to bed) but now that work from home is a thing for many careers, the hours aren't anything to be excited about--my husband actually does all the school drop off/pick ups, meets contractors, etc. because he has so much more flexibility.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teachers in FFX County start around $53K. That seems like a fine starting wage for a college grad. Even better considering time off in the summer.

Teachers get the summer off. They work less days a year than other professions. I get 26 days of leave a year pkus holidays. A teacher gets triple.

Your leave is paid though. For 2 months the teachers are not paid. Now, they are free to get a second job during that time to make money.

I don't think teachers are paid enough for what we expect of them though. I taught college before and that was tough enough, with just a couple hours a day and kids that wanted to be there. I can't imagine taking on a classroom of students for 6 hours every day.

The unpaid leave argument is truly one of the stupidest things I've ever heard and it doesn't make you look very smart. Whether you call your salary an annual salary or salary for the 10 months you work it's really just semantics. Everyone knows summers are time off and whether you actually get paid during it or just need to set aside some of your other paychecks doesn't change anything. The unpaid argument would only make sense if teachers were given an annualized salary that was then pro rated for the time they actually worked but it doesn't work like that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teachers in FFX County start around $53K. That seems like a fine starting wage for a college grad. Even better considering time off in the summer.

Teachers get the summer off. They work less days a year than other professions. I get 26 days of leave a year pkus holidays. A teacher gets triple.

Your leave is paid though. For 2 months the teachers are not paid. Now, they are free to get a second job during that time to make money.

I don't think teachers are paid enough for what we expect of them though. I taught college before and that was tough enough, with just a couple hours a day and kids that wanted to be there. I can't imagine taking on a classroom of students for 6 hours every day.

The unpaid leave argument is truly one of the stupidest things I've ever heard and it doesn't make you look very smart. Whether you call your salary an annual salary or salary for the 10 months you work it's really just semantics. Everyone knows summers are time off and whether you actually get paid during it or just need to set aside some of your other paychecks doesn't change anything. The unpaid argument would only make sense if teachers were given an annualized salary that was then pro rated for the time they actually worked but it doesn't work like that.

Teacher here. I work 20-25 hour a week over the summer. Since my contract ends in July and doesn’t pick up again until late August, those are quite literally unpaid hours. Im doing curriculum writing, website creation and modification, additional trainings, etc.

The absolute language (“everyone knows”) and insults (“doesn’t make you look very smart”) are detracting from your argument, as is the inaccurate information.

[Anonymous]

With respect to nurses, they're low in the hospital hierarchy. They don't make money for the hospital. They can't bill for their services. And they're needed in relatively large numbers. Thus, they're going to be paid less than physicians and mid-level providers. Just how it is. Want to make more money as a nurse? Move into management or go to grad school to become a mid-level provider.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are NOT underpaid. Supply and demand

The "supply and demand" argument against teachers isn't going to work for much longer. Teachers willing to teach are in short supply nationwide. There are plenty of people with teaching credentials who are now making more money in other professions. The question then becomes what can we do to attract them back to teaching.

Better would be to tap talent of people with real skills and experience who are good at teaching and managing. Get a program going to entice them to teach. Or educated retired moms.

Private schools can get great talent interested in teaching. Sometimes they call older alums in the area- sick of doing IP law, come be a sub, come be a full time maths teacher.

Great hires.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teachers in FFX County start around $53K. That seems like a fine starting wage for a college grad. Even better considering time off in the summer.

Teachers get the summer off. They work less days a year than other professions. I get 26 days of leave a year pkus holidays. A teacher gets triple.

Your leave is paid though. For 2 months the teachers are not paid. Now, they are free to get a second job during that time to make money.

I don't think teachers are paid enough for what we expect of them though. I taught college before and that was tough enough, with just a couple hours a day and kids that wanted to be there. I can't imagine taking on a classroom of students for 6 hours every day.

The unpaid leave argument is truly one of the stupidest things I've ever heard and it doesn't make you look very smart. Whether you call your salary an annual salary or salary for the 10 months you work it's really just semantics. Everyone knows summers are time off and whether you actually get paid during it or just need to set aside some of your other paychecks doesn't change anything. The unpaid argument would only make sense if teachers were given an annualized salary that was then pro rated for the time they actually worked but it doesn't work like that.

The compensation structure is so different in a teaching job versus a corporate type job that you can’t really compare. I guess if you calculate the salary earned per day of work, that would give a more clear comparison.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are NOT underpaid. Supply and demand

The "supply and demand" argument against teachers isn't going to work for much longer. Teachers willing to teach are in short supply nationwide. There are plenty of people with teaching credentials who are now making more money in other professions. The question then becomes what can we do to attract them back to teaching.

Better would be to tap talent of people with real skills and experience who are good at teaching and managing. Get a program going to entice them to teach. Or educated retired moms.

Private schools can get great talent interested in teaching. Sometimes they call older alums in the area- sick of doing IP law, come be a sub, come be a full time maths teacher.

Great hires.

I agree with you. Career changers can be great teachers. Some area school districts have been attracting them for years through alternative certification programs. I’m aware PGCPS has been doing it since the late 90s.

The problem is these existing programs don’t attract enough teachers. The word is out about working conditions. Teaching (as it currently is) isn’t an attractive deal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teachers in FFX County start around $53K. That seems like a fine starting wage for a college grad. Even better considering time off in the summer.

Teachers get the summer off. They work less days a year than other professions. I get 26 days of leave a year pkus holidays. A teacher gets triple.

Your leave is paid though. For 2 months the teachers are not paid. Now, they are free to get a second job during that time to make money.

I don't think teachers are paid enough for what we expect of them though. I taught college before and that was tough enough, with just a couple hours a day and kids that wanted to be there. I can't imagine taking on a classroom of students for 6 hours every day.

The unpaid leave argument is truly one of the stupidest things I've ever heard and it doesn't make you look very smart. Whether you call your salary an annual salary or salary for the 10 months you work it's really just semantics. Everyone knows summers are time off and whether you actually get paid during it or just need to set aside some of your other paychecks doesn't change anything. The unpaid argument would only make sense if teachers were given an annualized salary that was then pro rated for the time they actually worked but it doesn't work like that.

Teacher here. I work 20-25 hour a week over the summer. Since my contract ends in July and doesn’t pick up again until late August, those are quite literally unpaid hours. Im doing curriculum writing, website creation and modification, additional trainings, etc.

The absolute language (“everyone knows”) and insults (“doesn’t make you look very smart”) are detracting from your argument, as is the inaccurate information.

What school system do you work for. I've never heard of teachers doing curriculum writing over the summer for no pay. Maybe that happens in other places but certainly not MCPS, FCPS, or the three school systems my relatives teach in, in New England. I'm not sure what you mean by website creation. Do you have a website that your students use? Is this required time? Training is also paid time in the districts I am famiiiar with. Maybe it is time to move. You may still feel unappreciated, but at least you'll get paid more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think they are underpaid. Yes I think they work hard and deserve our respect but what the earn is ovoid considering the amount of days off they get over the course of a year ( teachers) compared to other jobs. I am not s nurse but do shift work similar to a nurse schedule, they’re not working every day either and depending on where they work and seniority can get cushy schedules too.

I am a teacher in MCPS and we are definitely not underpaid.

MCPS teachers get a plateau in steps from years 15-20, then up a step at 20, another plateau from years 20-25 and that’s it.
MCPS has an OK salary for the first 15 years.
DCPS is definitely better for those who want longevity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The teachers and nurses I know are not underpaid at all. The local teachers complaining about their salaries take vacations in Hawaii, France, GB and /or own horses while the nurses do their job without complaining.

This is absurd. Tell me how I can regularly vacation overseas (or own a horse) when I am only getting paid $80K after 15 years teaching. I have a family to support on that, too.

As for complaining, is it fair that I complain I’m on hour 4 of working today, on Labor Day? Only about 1/3 done for the day, too.

I had no idea schools were open Today, where?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are teachers really underpaid?

I know a teacher who teaches special Ed 4th graders. She is pulling in $133k per year with 18 years in. Insane benefits and a pension. The ones who bellyache the most about being underpaid in teaching are the ones who don't have a lot of years in and who work at crappy school districts.

Go read up on the epic debacle of the entire state of Illinois. There are teachers there collecting like $100-200k per year in pension who make more in pension than they made in contributions to the system. They didn't even serve as senior level teaching admin positions. It's completely absurd.

Where does this teacher work? Is it somewhere with a high COL? NYC?

My DW and I both teach in Fairfax County elementary schools. This is my 30th year. I have my MA +30 and make $110k. DW makes exactly the same. We think it is fair compensation. Our benefits are not “insane” (I’d like to know the example of “insane”) but our pension is good (mine is a bit better than hers since she was hired by the county after changes were made). Retiree healthcare premiums are at least double what an active teacher pays.

I’d estimate I regularly put in about 50-55 hours per week (working, on task, not down time) but I’ve never put in hours over the summer that weren’t paid. Earlier in my year (up through my 10th year or so), I worked summer school. Since then I really don’t do anything for work between our last contract day in June and our first day in August. Other than paid summer school teaching earlier in our career we’ve never found it necessary to put in hours over the summer.

Pennsylvania.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teachers in FFX County start around $53K. That seems like a fine starting wage for a college grad. Even better considering time off in the summer.

Teachers get the summer off. They work less days a year than other professions. I get 26 days of leave a year pkus holidays. A teacher gets triple.

Your leave is paid though. For 2 months the teachers are not paid. Now, they are free to get a second job during that time to make money.

I don't think teachers are paid enough for what we expect of them though. I taught college before and that was tough enough, with just a couple hours a day and kids that wanted to be there. I can't imagine taking on a classroom of students for 6 hours every day.

The unpaid leave argument is truly one of the stupidest things I've ever heard and it doesn't make you look very smart. Whether you call your salary an annual salary or salary for the 10 months you work it's really just semantics. Everyone knows summers are time off and whether you actually get paid during it or just need to set aside some of your other paychecks doesn't change anything. The unpaid argument would only make sense if teachers were given an annualized salary that was then pro rated for the time they actually worked but it doesn't work like that.

The compensation structure is so different in a teaching job versus a corporate type job that you can’t really compare. I guess if you calculate the salary earned per day of work, that would give a more clear comparison.

I still don't see how it matters. If you get paid $80K over 12 months or over 10 months you're still getting $80K as your salary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teachers in FFX County start around $53K. That seems like a fine starting wage for a college grad. Even better considering time off in the summer.

Teachers get the summer off. They work less days a year than other professions. I get 26 days of leave a year pkus holidays. A teacher gets triple.

Your leave is paid though. For 2 months the teachers are not paid. Now, they are free to get a second job during that time to make money.

I don't think teachers are paid enough for what we expect of them though. I taught college before and that was tough enough, with just a couple hours a day and kids that wanted to be there. I can't imagine taking on a classroom of students for 6 hours every day.

The unpaid leave argument is truly one of the stupidest things I've ever heard and it doesn't make you look very smart. Whether you call your salary an annual salary or salary for the 10 months you work it's really just semantics. Everyone knows summers are time off and whether you actually get paid during it or just need to set aside some of your other paychecks doesn't change anything. The unpaid argument would only make sense if teachers were given an annualized salary that was then pro rated for the time they actually worked but it doesn't work like that.

Teacher here. I work 20-25 hour a week over the summer. Since my contract ends in July and doesn’t pick up again until late August, those are quite literally unpaid hours. Im doing curriculum writing, website creation and modification, additional trainings, etc.

The absolute language (“everyone knows”) and insults (“doesn’t make you look very smart”) are detracting from your argument, as is the inaccurate information.

Why? Why do you do these things without pay? My DW and I both teach in elementary schools. I posted earlier. Our last day was in mid-June and our next contract day was August 12. In between I did sub a few days for summer school for some pay, purely by choice to help out. That’s it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teachers in FFX County start around $53K. That seems like a fine starting wage for a college grad. Even better considering time off in the summer.

Teachers get the summer off. They work less days a year than other professions. I get 26 days of leave a year pkus holidays. A teacher gets triple.

Your leave is paid though. For 2 months the teachers are not paid. Now, they are free to get a second job during that time to make money.

I don't think teachers are paid enough for what we expect of them though. I taught college before and that was tough enough, with just a couple hours a day and kids that wanted to be there. I can't imagine taking on a classroom of students for 6 hours every day.

The unpaid leave argument is truly one of the stupidest things I've ever heard and it doesn't make you look very smart. Whether you call your salary an annual salary or salary for the 10 months you work it's really just semantics. Everyone knows summers are time off and whether you actually get paid during it or just need to set aside some of your other paychecks doesn't change anything. The unpaid argument would only make sense if teachers were given an annualized salary that was then pro rated for the time they actually worked but it doesn't work like that.

Teacher here. I work 20-25 hour a week over the summer. Since my contract ends in July and doesn’t pick up again until late August, those are quite literally unpaid hours. Im doing curriculum writing, website creation and modification, additional trainings, etc.

The absolute language (“everyone knows”) and insults (“doesn’t make you look very smart”) are detracting from your argument, as is the inaccurate information.

Yours is a different scenario because you're working, not off like the PP I was responding to. My point is your salary being paid over 10 months or 12 months is semantic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are teachers really underpaid?

I know a teacher who teaches special Ed 4th graders. She is pulling in $133k per year with 18 years in. Insane benefits and a pension. The ones who bellyache the most about being underpaid in teaching are the ones who don't have a lot of years in and who work at crappy school districts.

Go read up on the epic debacle of the entire state of Illinois. There are teachers there collecting like $100-200k per year in pension who make more in pension than they made in contributions to the system. They didn't even serve as senior level teaching admin positions. It's completely absurd.

Where does this teacher work? Is it somewhere with a high COL? NYC?

My DW and I both teach in Fairfax County elementary schools. This is my 30th year. I have my MA +30 and make $110k. DW makes exactly the same. We think it is fair compensation. Our benefits are not “insane” (I’d like to know the example of “insane”) but our pension is good (mine is a bit better than hers since she was hired by the county after changes were made). Retiree healthcare premiums are at least double what an active teacher pays.

I’d estimate I regularly put in about 50-55 hours per week (working, on task, not down time) but I’ve never put in hours over the summer that weren’t paid. Earlier in my year (up through my 10th year or so), I worked summer school. Since then I really don’t do anything for work between our last contract day in June and our first day in August. Other than paid summer school teaching earlier in our career we’ve never found it necessary to put in hours over the summer.

Pennsylvania.

What part of PA? There is a big difference between Chester County and Venango County for example.