at the end of my rope with my sister's bizarre, hurtful behavior

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the PP with the estranged sister. I was coming from a place of experience and hoping for a better outcome for the OP.

Is there only one bully on this thread or many? It's hard to imagine someone being that caustic to a stranger on a thread about a mentally ill relative who is actually mentally healthy. Something wrong there. Why would anyone take their advice? It didn't turn out well for them. They're twisted and unhappy people. The goal is to be better, not worse.

People are frustrated with you because you are a hypocrite. It isn’t mean to point that out; it’s factual. You are perceiving it as mean because you don’t like being seen for what you are.

I’m one of the PPs who has responded to you (one of multiple). I’m in the trenches with a severely mentally ill relative, unlike you. Unlike you, we are in touch. We make sure the relative gets cared for, we interact with the relative, we are the main point of contact for when things go wrong (which they do, all the time). But we do not allow contact with our kids, and we keep our own contact as minimal as possible. When the abuse got to be too much, we slowly cut all contact for years (all the while making sure our relative kept a home and got healthcare). I will make sure a mentally ill family member is kept safe, but I will not tolerate abuse.

It is unclear to me why anyone should take your advice. You haven’t been in touch with your mentally ill sister in 15 years. How can you possibly have anything relevant to say about how to interact with a mentally ill family member? You don’t actually do it. You talk a big game, but you don’t do it yourself. And that makes you a hypocrite.

When you have been actually caring for your sister like the rest of this on this thread who actually interact with their severely mentally ill family members, and are actually doing something other than telling people to do what you don’t do yourself, maybe people will listen.

You will not tolerate abuse, but you will dish it out. Abusive and bullying. If you don't like my advice, which I gave in good faith, you could have ignored it. Instead you sought to hurt me, multiple times. You don't even recognize the person you are. You are in no position to offer advice on how to handle abuse, either, since you relish in it yourself.

Interesting that you complain about dishing out abuse while you do exactly that. That is in keeping with your pattern of hypocritical behavior.

OP can decide if she values the opinion of someone who says “do as I say, not as I do” and then lashes out cruelly at anyone who observes that behavior. Personally I think the insights of people who actually walk the walk are more useful.

You are wrong. I was posting from a position of "BTDT" and learned from my mistakes. I was encouraging her to find another way to build boundaries and remain protected and healthy without cutting off her sister altogether, like I did. I wish I had done better. Learning from one's mistakes does not make one a hypocrite.

I get that's not what you want her to do -- you want her to take your advice and no other -- but my advice is still valid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the PP with the estranged sister. I was coming from a place of experience and hoping for a better outcome for the OP.

Is there only one bully on this thread or many? It's hard to imagine someone being that caustic to a stranger on a thread about a mentally ill relative who is actually mentally healthy. Something wrong there. Why would anyone take their advice? It didn't turn out well for them. They're twisted and unhappy people. The goal is to be better, not worse.

People are frustrated with you because you are a hypocrite. It isn’t mean to point that out; it’s factual. You are perceiving it as mean because you don’t like being seen for what you are.

I’m one of the PPs who has responded to you (one of multiple). I’m in the trenches with a severely mentally ill relative, unlike you. Unlike you, we are in touch. We make sure the relative gets cared for, we interact with the relative, we are the main point of contact for when things go wrong (which they do, all the time). But we do not allow contact with our kids, and we keep our own contact as minimal as possible. When the abuse got to be too much, we slowly cut all contact for years (all the while making sure our relative kept a home and got healthcare). I will make sure a mentally ill family member is kept safe, but I will not tolerate abuse.

It is unclear to me why anyone should take your advice. You haven’t been in touch with your mentally ill sister in 15 years. How can you possibly have anything relevant to say about how to interact with a mentally ill family member? You don’t actually do it. You talk a big game, but you don’t do it yourself. And that makes you a hypocrite.

When you have been actually caring for your sister like the rest of this on this thread who actually interact with their severely mentally ill family members, and are actually doing something other than telling people to do what you don’t do yourself, maybe people will listen.

You will not tolerate abuse, but you will dish it out. Abusive and bullying. If you don't like my advice, which I gave in good faith, you could have ignored it. Instead you sought to hurt me, multiple times. You don't even recognize the person you are. You are in no position to offer advice on how to handle abuse, either, since you relish in it yourself.

Interesting that you complain about dishing out abuse while you do exactly that. That is in keeping with your pattern of hypocritical behavior.

OP can decide if she values the opinion of someone who says “do as I say, not as I do” and then lashes out cruelly at anyone who observes that behavior. Personally I think the insights of people who actually walk the walk are more useful.

You are wrong. I was posting from a position of "BTDT" and learned from my mistakes. I was encouraging her to find another way to build boundaries and remain protected and healthy without cutting off her sister altogether, like I did. I wish I had done better. Learning from one's mistakes does not make one a hypocrite.

I get that's not what you want her to do -- you want her to take your advice and no other -- but my advice is still valid.

You haven’t learned anything. If you had actually learned, you would be in contact with your sister now. You would be like the rest of us in this thread, struggling to manage the horrific illness of a family member while trying to protect yourself and your kids from abuse. You would have current relevant experience, and I suspect you would not be lecturing the rest of us (who actually are doing the hard work) the way you are now.

As for advice, I only want OP to not take your advice, because it’s deeply harmful and gaslighting. I don’t actually care if she takes mine, or the advice of others in this thread who are also in the the trenches. There are a variety of us posting here, and we’ve handled the same issue in different ways. OP is going to have to pick her own path. But I think it’s harmful for OP to listen to the advice of someone who lectures others on how they should accept abusive behavior but who hasn’t accepted that abuse herself in 15 years. You are more estranged than anyone else in this thread, yet you think it’s appropriate to tell people to accept abuse because the perpetrator is mentally ill? Can’t you see how absurd that is? How out of touch you sound? I’m genuinely puzzled by how you think you are possibly able to help OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the PP with the estranged sister. I was coming from a place of experience and hoping for a better outcome for the OP.

Is there only one bully on this thread or many? It's hard to imagine someone being that caustic to a stranger on a thread about a mentally ill relative who is actually mentally healthy. Something wrong there. Why would anyone take their advice? It didn't turn out well for them. They're twisted and unhappy people. The goal is to be better, not worse.

People are frustrated with you because you are a hypocrite. It isn’t mean to point that out; it’s factual. You are perceiving it as mean because you don’t like being seen for what you are.

I’m one of the PPs who has responded to you (one of multiple). I’m in the trenches with a severely mentally ill relative, unlike you. Unlike you, we are in touch. We make sure the relative gets cared for, we interact with the relative, we are the main point of contact for when things go wrong (which they do, all the time). But we do not allow contact with our kids, and we keep our own contact as minimal as possible. When the abuse got to be too much, we slowly cut all contact for years (all the while making sure our relative kept a home and got healthcare). I will make sure a mentally ill family member is kept safe, but I will not tolerate abuse.

It is unclear to me why anyone should take your advice. You haven’t been in touch with your mentally ill sister in 15 years. How can you possibly have anything relevant to say about how to interact with a mentally ill family member? You don’t actually do it. You talk a big game, but you don’t do it yourself. And that makes you a hypocrite.

When you have been actually caring for your sister like the rest of this on this thread who actually interact with their severely mentally ill family members, and are actually doing something other than telling people to do what you don’t do yourself, maybe people will listen.

You will not tolerate abuse, but you will dish it out. Abusive and bullying. If you don't like my advice, which I gave in good faith, you could have ignored it. Instead you sought to hurt me, multiple times. You don't even recognize the person you are. You are in no position to offer advice on how to handle abuse, either, since you relish in it yourself.

Interesting that you complain about dishing out abuse while you do exactly that. That is in keeping with your pattern of hypocritical behavior.

OP can decide if she values the opinion of someone who says “do as I say, not as I do” and then lashes out cruelly at anyone who observes that behavior. Personally I think the insights of people who actually walk the walk are more useful.

You are wrong. I was posting from a position of "BTDT" and learned from my mistakes. I was encouraging her to find another way to build boundaries and remain protected and healthy without cutting off her sister altogether, like I did. I wish I had done better. Learning from one's mistakes does not make one a hypocrite.

I get that's not what you want her to do -- you want her to take your advice and no other -- but my advice is still valid.

You haven’t learned anything. If you had actually learned, you would be in contact with your sister now. You would be like the rest of us in this thread, struggling to manage the horrific illness of a family member while trying to protect yourself and your kids from abuse. You would have current relevant experience, and I suspect you would not be lecturing the rest of us (who actually are doing the hard work) the way you are now.

As for advice, I only want OP to not take your advice, because it’s deeply harmful and gaslighting. I don’t actually care if she takes mine, or the advice of others in this thread who are also in the the trenches. There are a variety of us posting here, and we’ve handled the same issue in different ways. OP is going to have to pick her own path. But I think it’s harmful for OP to listen to the advice of someone who lectures others on how they should accept abusive behavior but who hasn’t accepted that abuse herself in 15 years. You are more estranged than anyone else in this thread, yet you think it’s appropriate to tell people to accept abuse because the perpetrator is mentally ill? Can’t you see how absurd that is? How out of touch you sound? I’m genuinely puzzled by how you think you are possibly able to help OP.

What is your problem? This thread is not about you. I was giving advice to OP. Leave me alone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the PP with the estranged sister. I was coming from a place of experience and hoping for a better outcome for the OP.

Is there only one bully on this thread or many? It's hard to imagine someone being that caustic to a stranger on a thread about a mentally ill relative who is actually mentally healthy. Something wrong there. Why would anyone take their advice? It didn't turn out well for them. They're twisted and unhappy people. The goal is to be better, not worse.

People are frustrated with you because you are a hypocrite. It isn’t mean to point that out; it’s factual. You are perceiving it as mean because you don’t like being seen for what you are.

I’m one of the PPs who has responded to you (one of multiple). I’m in the trenches with a severely mentally ill relative, unlike you. Unlike you, we are in touch. We make sure the relative gets cared for, we interact with the relative, we are the main point of contact for when things go wrong (which they do, all the time). But we do not allow contact with our kids, and we keep our own contact as minimal as possible. When the abuse got to be too much, we slowly cut all contact for years (all the while making sure our relative kept a home and got healthcare). I will make sure a mentally ill family member is kept safe, but I will not tolerate abuse.

It is unclear to me why anyone should take your advice. You haven’t been in touch with your mentally ill sister in 15 years. How can you possibly have anything relevant to say about how to interact with a mentally ill family member? You don’t actually do it. You talk a big game, but you don’t do it yourself. And that makes you a hypocrite.

When you have been actually caring for your sister like the rest of this on this thread who actually interact with their severely mentally ill family members, and are actually doing something other than telling people to do what you don’t do yourself, maybe people will listen.

You will not tolerate abuse, but you will dish it out. Abusive and bullying. If you don't like my advice, which I gave in good faith, you could have ignored it. Instead you sought to hurt me, multiple times. You don't even recognize the person you are. You are in no position to offer advice on how to handle abuse, either, since you relish in it yourself.

Interesting that you complain about dishing out abuse while you do exactly that. That is in keeping with your pattern of hypocritical behavior.

OP can decide if she values the opinion of someone who says “do as I say, not as I do” and then lashes out cruelly at anyone who observes that behavior. Personally I think the insights of people who actually walk the walk are more useful.

You are wrong. I was posting from a position of "BTDT" and learned from my mistakes. I was encouraging her to find another way to build boundaries and remain protected and healthy without cutting off her sister altogether, like I did. I wish I had done better. Learning from one's mistakes does not make one a hypocrite.

I get that's not what you want her to do -- you want her to take your advice and no other -- but my advice is still valid.

You haven’t learned anything. If you had actually learned, you would be in contact with your sister now. You would be like the rest of us in this thread, struggling to manage the horrific illness of a family member while trying to protect yourself and your kids from abuse. You would have current relevant experience, and I suspect you would not be lecturing the rest of us (who actually are doing the hard work) the way you are now.

As for advice, I only want OP to not take your advice, because it’s deeply harmful and gaslighting. I don’t actually care if she takes mine, or the advice of others in this thread who are also in the the trenches. There are a variety of us posting here, and we’ve handled the same issue in different ways. OP is going to have to pick her own path. But I think it’s harmful for OP to listen to the advice of someone who lectures others on how they should accept abusive behavior but who hasn’t accepted that abuse herself in 15 years. You are more estranged than anyone else in this thread, yet you think it’s appropriate to tell people to accept abuse because the perpetrator is mentally ill? Can’t you see how absurd that is? How out of touch you sound? I’m genuinely puzzled by how you think you are possibly able to help OP.

What is your problem? This thread is not about you. I was giving advice to OP. Leave me alone.

And BTW I never said OP (or you....) should accept abuse. I said there were other ways to draw boundaries than cutting off the mentally ill sibling. I said that again and again. And yet you are going ballistic about a position I don't even hold. I wonder what this is really about for you. In any event, move on from me please.

[Anonymous]

I think it’s reasonable for OP to contact NAMI, but OP should be aware that at least in my experience (and this will vary by the support group), they draw the line at acceptance of abusive behavior further out than I think appropriate. Again, this will vary by the group. In the group I attended, I felt the moderator was dismissive of the impact of abusive behavior on caregivers.

Really depends on the group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hope she's not on DCUM. You put a lot of info in your post.

OP here. Honestly, I wish she was. Then she'd be reading my perspective without interrupting or clapping back with something she thinks is a great zinger.

Thank you for the commiseration. It's nice to realize I'm not in a unique situation. As far as cutting off communications, it's really a non-issue, as she lives 2 hours away and we never see each other unless it's a planned get together. I haven't seen her face to face probably since the 2020 winter holidays, and that was a socially distant outdoor visit. I'm thinking that I will go ahead and remove her DH from my social media, since my accounts are all private/friends-only, and just let it lie for now. If she reaches out like nothing's happened, I'm not planning to respond. Nothing good will come of it even in the best case scenario, and it's not like this is going to be the last time this happens.

I really my mom has some kind of codependence issue with her though, which makes it harder to disconnect, as my mom will be coming to me the next time my sister blows up at her. My mom's sticking point is that there are kids involved, and she doesn't want to lose contact with her grandchildren. My response to that is she has already lost real contact, since no doubt their mother tells them terrible things about their grandma. As for my relationship with them, I've resigned to just sending birthday cards and being a distant aunt until they're of age, and maybe then they will reach out or I will try to. I'm sure they will eventually figure out that their mom is not an accurate historian and at least wonder about the truth.

DH, our kids, and I go to regular therapy just for general mental health, but covid has greatly scaled back availability of appointments and I've let it slide. Time to get back on track with as well, it seems.

She's your mother's CHILD. Parents don't just cut off their children because when they grew up they turned out to be mentally ill.

You can't have it both ways, OP. Either your sister is mentally ill or she's not. You can't be pissed at her as if she's normal and respond to her as if she's a normal person doing crazy things, and also say she's ill.

THE WOMAN IS ILL. Show a bit of compassion for her.

Are you the PP who has not been in contact with her own mentally ill sister for 15 years?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the posters saying, cut her off, shut the door, cut contact etc. -- this person is mentally ill. Why would you cut off someone mentally ill? They need help.

Talk to someone in the field who can help you deal with them. Learn to have internal borders, like, "This is my sister being mentally ill blah blah blah blah" when she's talking to you.

If a family can't have contact with a mentally ill family member, what's the rest of society supposed to do with them?

Clearly you have never been in OP’s situation. These types of people are not just toxic but destructive. They play the victim but they will do everything to spread misery around them. They are very difficult to treat and most of the time, they refuse treatment. Sadly, the only option for OP is cutting this destructive person out of her life.

Oh, that PP knows that situation well, I suspect because she herself is the mentally ill family member perpetrating the toxic, destructive, and likely abusive behavior. That is why she is arguing against cutting off abusive, mentally ill family members — she doesn’t want her victims to cut her off.

Such dramatic language. Actually, no. I have a mentally ill sister. She suffered so much in life, and instead of realizing how ill she was, I added to her burden by treating her like a b/tch or a normal person who just happened to be doing crazy things. There are so many ways I was heartless to her. I deeply regret not treating her with compassion. It's too late for us. I've been estranged from her for over 15 years. What a mistake. I was trying to help OP not go down that road.

Life is hell for the mentally ill. Normal, strong, mentally healthy people know how to draw boundaries without being martyrs to the mentally ill person's behavior. I wish I had known that. That's why I recommended getting advice from a professional for how OP could handle her mentally ill sister.

The PP above and the other PPs who misunderstood my motivations are clear examples of why you need a professional, OP -- don't rely on the advice of these armchair therapists. They're telling you more about themselves than they are about your relationship with your sister.

Again, I deeply, deeply regret treating my sister with the attitude you have, OP. It's too late for me and my sister but it's not too late for you. Be compassionate. She's ill.

I don't understand why it's too late for you and your sister. You can always resume contact after cutting it off. It doesn't have to be forever.

[Anonymous]

She sounds bipolar. She needs psychiatric help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hope she's not on DCUM. You put a lot of info in your post.

OP here. Honestly, I wish she was. Then she'd be reading my perspective without interrupting or clapping back with something she thinks is a great zinger.

Thank you for the commiseration. It's nice to realize I'm not in a unique situation. As far as cutting off communications, it's really a non-issue, as she lives 2 hours away and we never see each other unless it's a planned get together. I haven't seen her face to face probably since the 2020 winter holidays, and that was a socially distant outdoor visit. I'm thinking that I will go ahead and remove her DH from my social media, since my accounts are all private/friends-only, and just let it lie for now. If she reaches out like nothing's happened, I'm not planning to respond. Nothing good will come of it even in the best case scenario, and it's not like this is going to be the last time this happens.

I really my mom has some kind of codependence issue with her though, which makes it harder to disconnect, as my mom will be coming to me the next time my sister blows up at her. My mom's sticking point is that there are kids involved, and she doesn't want to lose contact with her grandchildren. My response to that is she has already lost real contact, since no doubt their mother tells them terrible things about their grandma. As for my relationship with them, I've resigned to just sending birthday cards and being a distant aunt until they're of age, and maybe then they will reach out or I will try to. I'm sure they will eventually figure out that their mom is not an accurate historian and at least wonder about the truth.

DH, our kids, and I go to regular therapy just for general mental health, but covid has greatly scaled back availability of appointments and I've let it slide. Time to get back on track with as well, it seems.

She's your mother's CHILD. Parents don't just cut off their children because when they grew up they turned out to be mentally ill.

You can't have it both ways, OP. Either your sister is mentally ill or she's not. You can't be pissed at her as if she's normal and respond to her as if she's a normal person doing crazy things, and also say she's ill.

THE WOMAN IS ILL. Show a bit of compassion for her.

NP. OP, I really feel for you. I could have written your post myself. I have a sister who is like this, although she's divorced now so I don't have the BIL dynamic that you do.

I get what the PP above is saying, but it's a tough road to walk in supporting your mentally ill sibling and trying to maintain some semblance of peace with your extended family. My mother is very co-dependent with my sister, as well, to the point that she uses me to complain about my sister, tell me how hurt she is when my sister is insensitive to her, etc., but is the first one to jump to my sister's defense and repeat her tales of woe even when they don't make sense. Every job she's lost, every friendship that is no more...none of them are my sister's fault. At times, it's like whiplash trying to figure out what the dynamic of the day is, and it's mentally exhausting and chaotic for the rest of the family. Admittedly, my sister's outbursts aren't quite as volatile as OP's, but they are incredibly hurtful and we've experienced many a holiday that has imploded because of one of my sister's outbursts. Trust me, you can have compassion, but you can also feel anger at what this type of family dynamic does to the extended family and you can set boundaries for your own family that prevent you from getting sucked into the madness. Otherwise, you are existing while constantly bracing for impact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You can't have it both ways, OP. Either your sister is mentally ill or she's not. You can't be pissed at her as if she's normal and respond to her as if she's a normal person doing crazy things, and also say she's ill.

OP again-- I'm not pissed at her, and re-reading my post, I think I made that clear. The only reason I haven't cut things off is her mental illness. Nobody would accept this kind of behavior from a stable person in their right mind. That's why she's lost so, so many "best friends" and severed so many relationships over the years. People who don't have to deal with it simply don't. It happens once and they're done. My dilemma is whether to do the same and call it a loss, maintain some form of contact albeit at a distance, or shrug it off as typical for her and maintain status quo. The thing is that the last option is what I've been doing for years, it has escalated, and I've basically gotten no positive emotional reward, only stress, disappointment, heartbreak, and hassle. She is my sister, she is ill, but I get nothing from this relationship and it is damaging my mental health. Now it has spread to my DH, and it would have already involved my kids if we didn't shield them. And I'm sure they've still picked up on the problems.

For example, one of our DC loves to swim, and my sister has a pool. For DC's birthday, they asked if they could have a family-only pool party at my sister's house. I told my sister about DC's request and left it very open and optional. Would you be open to this or should I discourage it and say no? My sister was elated, and said she was so happy DC wanted to celebrate at her house, she wants my kids to see her like a fun aunt, a second mom that they can depend on, etc etc. We had the party and it was fun. My sister went over the top with food and cake and seemed happy to do so. DH and I had planned for the food, but my sister added more, saying she wanted to make sure it was extra special for DC. And it was, DC loved it.

A few months later, there was blow up, not even involving me, and my sister started complaining that my DC was demanding and selfish, and that she (my sister) had done so much for them on their birthday and they hated the whole thing. When DC asked about a repeat the next year, we made excuses and arranged an alternative. My sister's story about the original party has grown, and if you asked her about it today, she would swear that DC had a horrible time and just wanted to use my sister for her pool. She just changes the narrative completely and then believes her own lies so that they become the truth for her. To dispute her version of events with her feels like you're trying to tell her that the sun is purple. I have learned to expect this from her, but understanding that that's what will happen doesn't make it any easier to navigate, especially with multiple family members--that I care deeply about--are involved on all sides.

I would be very leery of letting the kids near her at this point. You will never shake her delusions and it is harmful to kids to experience that kind of revisionism. I hope your DC doesn’t understand what your sister now thinks about him or her. That could be devastating. You need to protect your kids from abusive behavior. I’m honestly kind of surprised you allowed her to get involved with hosting the party. Surely you knew what would happen?

OP may not mind the drama, could be changing up a lot of details of the story, or could be an entertaining troll. In her previous "update" OP said that she, her husband, and kids had seen therapists for years before covid for "general mental health maintenance". No way would anybody in a healthy mental state, who has seen a therapist "regularly", host her kid's bday party at her mentally ill sister's house. If OP's sister truly has something like BPD, that doesn't just happen in a vacuum. Usually there is some sort of significant family trauma associated with it.

OP, if you aren't a troll, you definitely need to get back into therapy (different therapist, the one you had before may have sucked).

OP here. I do mind the drama. I hate it. But she is my sister. And sometimes there are long stretches of time between her episodes. Sometimes it seems like there is hope that she is getting the hang of interacting with others. Sometimes she's super talkative, texting me daily for a few weeks, telling me about good things happening in her family, including things that make me second guess myself and start wondering if maybe she did find a great group to help her deal with the stress of life, she might be able to function normally.

For the party, DC specifically requested to go to their aunt's house and have the party there. They love swimming and we live in an area where the only options are public pools. Having a pool all to themselves with just family is very valuable to a kid like that. I wouldn't have suggested it, but when the kid desperately wants it and my sister is all on board, I start to think it could be fun and work out. And it was fun. DC had a great birthday and has no idea that their aunt has now revised history about that day. They had so much fun, they wanted to do it again the next year, but of course we steered them away and made excuses.

I wish I was a troll. I have seen a therapist off and on since young adulthood, mainly for social anxiety, and now just to cope with the life of a busy working parent and spouse. DH has a disorder that is managed with medication and sees a therapist for that, as well as the same reason I do. One of our kids has special needs, and therapy is just a part of life with that. Our other DC started working with a therapist specializing in siblings of children with special needs, to help them process their own feelings about that. Since the pandemic, only the kids' therapies have continued on a regular basis, albeit virtually. Getting virtual appointments for DH and I has been a challenge that we let go, because it didn't feel like a top priority.

I dont know how my sister ended up like this. We've always been very, very different, especially as children. Her personality has always been high-strung, while everyone always told me I was mellow and low-key (or, as I often interpreted it, boring). I just want a calm, happy life with the people I love and who love me. I wish my sister was part of that circle.

Also, PP being called a hypocrite, I do appreciate the hindsight advice. I'm sorry you're living in regret, but you never know, there could still be time for you to at least reach out, if that's something you regret not having done before. Whatever the response, it may give you the closure your need.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the posters saying, cut her off, shut the door, cut contact etc. -- this person is mentally ill. Why would you cut off someone mentally ill? They need help.

Talk to someone in the field who can help you deal with them. Learn to have internal borders, like, "This is my sister being mentally ill blah blah blah blah" when she's talking to you.

If a family can't have contact with a mentally ill family member, what's the rest of society supposed to do with them?

Clearly you have never been in OP’s situation. These types of people are not just toxic but destructive. They play the victim but they will do everything to spread misery around them. They are very difficult to treat and most of the time, they refuse treatment. Sadly, the only option for OP is cutting this destructive person out of her life.

Oh, that PP knows that situation well, I suspect because she herself is the mentally ill family member perpetrating the toxic, destructive, and likely abusive behavior. That is why she is arguing against cutting off abusive, mentally ill family members — she doesn’t want her victims to cut her off.

Such dramatic language. Actually, no. I have a mentally ill sister. She suffered so much in life, and instead of realizing how ill she was, I added to her burden by treating her like a b/tch or a normal person who just happened to be doing crazy things. There are so many ways I was heartless to her. I deeply regret not treating her with compassion. It's too late for us. I've been estranged from her for over 15 years. What a mistake. I was trying to help OP not go down that road.

Life is hell for the mentally ill. Normal, strong, mentally healthy people know how to draw boundaries without being martyrs to the mentally ill person's behavior. I wish I had known that. That's why I recommended getting advice from a professional for how OP could handle her mentally ill sister.

The PP above and the other PPs who misunderstood my motivations are clear examples of why you need a professional, OP -- don't rely on the advice of these armchair therapists. They're telling you more about themselves than they are about your relationship with your sister.

Again, I deeply, deeply regret treating my sister with the attitude you have, OP. It's too late for me and my sister but it's not too late for you. Be compassionate. She's ill.

Nice of you to lecture OP and others on how they need to stay in touch with and support the mentally ill while you conveniently do none of that yourself. What a hypocrite you are. Your regrets are meaningless. You just like to lecture.

Not sure what your connection is to this thread, but you are a bitter and mean spirited person.

PP doesn't sound like a hypocrite to me. She sounds like someone who has BTDT and regrets her own decisions years ago. For someone to express that regret and be called a hypocrit, and told her regrets are meaningless, is pretty damn cruel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the PP with the estranged sister. I was coming from a place of experience and hoping for a better outcome for the OP.

Is there only one bully on this thread or many? It's hard to imagine someone being that caustic to a stranger on a thread about a mentally ill relative who is actually mentally healthy. Something wrong there. Why would anyone take their advice? It didn't turn out well for them. They're twisted and unhappy people. The goal is to be better, not worse.

People are frustrated with you because you are a hypocrite. It isn’t mean to point that out; it’s factual. You are perceiving it as mean because you don’t like being seen for what you are.

I’m one of the PPs who has responded to you (one of multiple). I’m in the trenches with a severely mentally ill relative, unlike you. Unlike you, we are in touch. We make sure the relative gets cared for, we interact with the relative, we are the main point of contact for when things go wrong (which they do, all the time). But we do not allow contact with our kids, and we keep our own contact as minimal as possible. When the abuse got to be too much, we slowly cut all contact for years (all the while making sure our relative kept a home and got healthcare). I will make sure a mentally ill family member is kept safe, but I will not tolerate abuse.

It is unclear to me why anyone should take your advice. You haven’t been in touch with your mentally ill sister in 15 years. How can you possibly have anything relevant to say about how to interact with a mentally ill family member? You don’t actually do it. You talk a big game, but you don’t do it yourself. And that makes you a hypocrite.

When you have been actually caring for your sister like the rest of this on this thread who actually interact with their severely mentally ill family members, and are actually doing something other than telling people to do what you don’t do yourself, maybe people will listen.

You will not tolerate abuse, but you will dish it out. Abusive and bullying. If you don't like my advice, which I gave in good faith, you could have ignored it. Instead you sought to hurt me, multiple times. You don't even recognize the person you are. You are in no position to offer advice on how to handle abuse, either, since you relish in it yourself.

Interesting that you complain about dishing out abuse while you do exactly that. That is in keeping with your pattern of hypocritical behavior.

OP can decide if she values the opinion of someone who says “do as I say, not as I do” and then lashes out cruelly at anyone who observes that behavior. Personally I think the insights of people who actually walk the walk are more useful.

You are wrong. I was posting from a position of "BTDT" and learned from my mistakes. I was encouraging her to find another way to build boundaries and remain protected and healthy without cutting off her sister altogether, like I did. I wish I had done better. Learning from one's mistakes does not make one a hypocrite.

I get that's not what you want her to do -- you want her to take your advice and no other -- but my advice is still valid.

You haven’t learned anything. If you had actually learned, you would be in contact with your sister now. You would be like the rest of us in this thread, struggling to manage the horrific illness of a family member while trying to protect yourself and your kids from abuse. You would have current relevant experience, and I suspect you would not be lecturing the rest of us (who actually are doing the hard work) the way you are now.

As for advice, I only want OP to not take your advice, because it’s deeply harmful and gaslighting. I don’t actually care if she takes mine, or the advice of others in this thread who are also in the the trenches. There are a variety of us posting here, and we’ve handled the same issue in different ways. OP is going to have to pick her own path. But I think it’s harmful for OP to listen to the advice of someone who lectures others on how they should accept abusive behavior but who hasn’t accepted that abuse herself in 15 years. You are more estranged than anyone else in this thread, yet you think it’s appropriate to tell people to accept abuse because the perpetrator is mentally ill? Can’t you see how absurd that is? How out of touch you sound? I’m genuinely puzzled by how you think you are possibly able to help OP.

NP. I'm genuinely puzzled by how you've appointed yourself OP's arbiter of advice. I'm also taken aback by how aggressively you are going after this PP for offering her own perspective based on her own experience and regrets. At this point, you seem more invested in attacking this PP than in actually giving OP advice. It's weird.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You can't have it both ways, OP. Either your sister is mentally ill or she's not. You can't be pissed at her as if she's normal and respond to her as if she's a normal person doing crazy things, and also say she's ill.

OP again-- I'm not pissed at her, and re-reading my post, I think I made that clear. The only reason I haven't cut things off is her mental illness. Nobody would accept this kind of behavior from a stable person in their right mind. That's why she's lost so, so many "best friends" and severed so many relationships over the years. People who don't have to deal with it simply don't. It happens once and they're done. My dilemma is whether to do the same and call it a loss, maintain some form of contact albeit at a distance, or shrug it off as typical for her and maintain status quo. The thing is that the last option is what I've been doing for years, it has escalated, and I've basically gotten no positive emotional reward, only stress, disappointment, heartbreak, and hassle. She is my sister, she is ill, but I get nothing from this relationship and it is damaging my mental health. Now it has spread to my DH, and it would have already involved my kids if we didn't shield them. And I'm sure they've still picked up on the problems.

For example, one of our DC loves to swim, and my sister has a pool. For DC's birthday, they asked if they could have a family-only pool party at my sister's house. I told my sister about DC's request and left it very open and optional. Would you be open to this or should I discourage it and say no? My sister was elated, and said she was so happy DC wanted to celebrate at her house, she wants my kids to see her like a fun aunt, a second mom that they can depend on, etc etc. We had the party and it was fun. My sister went over the top with food and cake and seemed happy to do so. DH and I had planned for the food, but my sister added more, saying she wanted to make sure it was extra special for DC. And it was, DC loved it.

A few months later, there was blow up, not even involving me, and my sister started complaining that my DC was demanding and selfish, and that she (my sister) had done so much for them on their birthday and they hated the whole thing. When DC asked about a repeat the next year, we made excuses and arranged an alternative. My sister's story about the original party has grown, and if you asked her about it today, she would swear that DC had a horrible time and just wanted to use my sister for her pool. She just changes the narrative completely and then believes her own lies so that they become the truth for her. To dispute her version of events with her feels like you're trying to tell her that the sun is purple. I have learned to expect this from her, but understanding that that's what will happen doesn't make it any easier to navigate, especially with multiple family members--that I care deeply about--are involved on all sides.

I would be very leery of letting the kids near her at this point. You will never shake her delusions and it is harmful to kids to experience that kind of revisionism. I hope your DC doesn’t understand what your sister now thinks about him or her. That could be devastating. You need to protect your kids from abusive behavior. I’m honestly kind of surprised you allowed her to get involved with hosting the party. Surely you knew what would happen?

OP may not mind the drama, could be changing up a lot of details of the story, or could be an entertaining troll. In her previous "update" OP said that she, her husband, and kids had seen therapists for years before covid for "general mental health maintenance". No way would anybody in a healthy mental state, who has seen a therapist "regularly", host her kid's bday party at her mentally ill sister's house. If OP's sister truly has something like BPD, that doesn't just happen in a vacuum. Usually there is some sort of significant family trauma associated with it.

OP, if you aren't a troll, you definitely need to get back into therapy (different therapist, the one you had before may have sucked).

OP here. I do mind the drama. I hate it. But she is my sister. And sometimes there are long stretches of time between her episodes. Sometimes it seems like there is hope that she is getting the hang of interacting with others. Sometimes she's super talkative, texting me daily for a few weeks, telling me about good things happening in her family, including things that make me second guess myself and start wondering if maybe she did find a great group to help her deal with the stress of life, she might be able to function normally.

For the party, DC specifically requested to go to their aunt's house and have the party there. They love swimming and we live in an area where the only options are public pools. Having a pool all to themselves with just family is very valuable to a kid like that. I wouldn't have suggested it, but when the kid desperately wants it and my sister is all on board, I start to think it could be fun and work out. And it was fun. DC had a great birthday and has no idea that their aunt has now revised history about that day. They had so much fun, they wanted to do it again the next year, but of course we steered them away and made excuses.

I wish I was a troll. I have seen a therapist off and on since young adulthood, mainly for social anxiety, and now just to cope with the life of a busy working parent and spouse. DH has a disorder that is managed with medication and sees a therapist for that, as well as the same reason I do. One of our kids has special needs, and therapy is just a part of life with that. Our other DC started working with a therapist specializing in siblings of children with special needs, to help them process their own feelings about that. Since the pandemic, only the kids' therapies have continued on a regular basis, albeit virtually. Getting virtual appointments for DH and I has been a challenge that we let go, because it didn't feel like a top priority.

I dont know how my sister ended up like this. We've always been very, very different, especially as children. Her personality has always been high-strung, while everyone always told me I was mellow and low-key (or, as I often interpreted it, boring). I just want a calm, happy life with the people I love and who love me. I wish my sister was part of that circle.

Also, PP being called a hypocrite, I do appreciate the hindsight advice. I'm sorry you're living in regret, but you never know, there could still be time for you to at least reach out, if that's something you regret not having done before. Whatever the response, it may give you the closure your need.

I never called you a hypocrite!! ***I*** was the one being called a hypocrite by some agitated third party. I was giving you sincere advice.

I may call my sister, actually. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You can't have it both ways, OP. Either your sister is mentally ill or she's not. You can't be pissed at her as if she's normal and respond to her as if she's a normal person doing crazy things, and also say she's ill.

OP again-- I'm not pissed at her, and re-reading my post, I think I made that clear. The only reason I haven't cut things off is her mental illness. Nobody would accept this kind of behavior from a stable person in their right mind. That's why she's lost so, so many "best friends" and severed so many relationships over the years. People who don't have to deal with it simply don't. It happens once and they're done. My dilemma is whether to do the same and call it a loss, maintain some form of contact albeit at a distance, or shrug it off as typical for her and maintain status quo. The thing is that the last option is what I've been doing for years, it has escalated, and I've basically gotten no positive emotional reward, only stress, disappointment, heartbreak, and hassle. She is my sister, she is ill, but I get nothing from this relationship and it is damaging my mental health. Now it has spread to my DH, and it would have already involved my kids if we didn't shield them. And I'm sure they've still picked up on the problems.

For example, one of our DC loves to swim, and my sister has a pool. For DC's birthday, they asked if they could have a family-only pool party at my sister's house. I told my sister about DC's request and left it very open and optional. Would you be open to this or should I discourage it and say no? My sister was elated, and said she was so happy DC wanted to celebrate at her house, she wants my kids to see her like a fun aunt, a second mom that they can depend on, etc etc. We had the party and it was fun. My sister went over the top with food and cake and seemed happy to do so. DH and I had planned for the food, but my sister added more, saying she wanted to make sure it was extra special for DC. And it was, DC loved it.

A few months later, there was blow up, not even involving me, and my sister started complaining that my DC was demanding and selfish, and that she (my sister) had done so much for them on their birthday and they hated the whole thing. When DC asked about a repeat the next year, we made excuses and arranged an alternative. My sister's story about the original party has grown, and if you asked her about it today, she would swear that DC had a horrible time and just wanted to use my sister for her pool. She just changes the narrative completely and then believes her own lies so that they become the truth for her. To dispute her version of events with her feels like you're trying to tell her that the sun is purple. I have learned to expect this from her, but understanding that that's what will happen doesn't make it any easier to navigate, especially with multiple family members--that I care deeply about--are involved on all sides.

I would be very leery of letting the kids near her at this point. You will never shake her delusions and it is harmful to kids to experience that kind of revisionism. I hope your DC doesn’t understand what your sister now thinks about him or her. That could be devastating. You need to protect your kids from abusive behavior. I’m honestly kind of surprised you allowed her to get involved with hosting the party. Surely you knew what would happen?

OP may not mind the drama, could be changing up a lot of details of the story, or could be an entertaining troll. In her previous "update" OP said that she, her husband, and kids had seen therapists for years before covid for "general mental health maintenance". No way would anybody in a healthy mental state, who has seen a therapist "regularly", host her kid's bday party at her mentally ill sister's house. If OP's sister truly has something like BPD, that doesn't just happen in a vacuum. Usually there is some sort of significant family trauma associated with it.

OP, if you aren't a troll, you definitely need to get back into therapy (different therapist, the one you had before may have sucked).

OP here. I do mind the drama. I hate it. But she is my sister. And sometimes there are long stretches of time between her episodes. Sometimes it seems like there is hope that she is getting the hang of interacting with others. Sometimes she's super talkative, texting me daily for a few weeks, telling me about good things happening in her family, including things that make me second guess myself and start wondering if maybe she did find a great group to help her deal with the stress of life, she might be able to function normally.

For the party, DC specifically requested to go to their aunt's house and have the party there. They love swimming and we live in an area where the only options are public pools. Having a pool all to themselves with just family is very valuable to a kid like that. I wouldn't have suggested it, but when the kid desperately wants it and my sister is all on board, I start to think it could be fun and work out. And it was fun. DC had a great birthday and has no idea that their aunt has now revised history about that day. They had so much fun, they wanted to do it again the next year, but of course we steered them away and made excuses.

I wish I was a troll. I have seen a therapist off and on since young adulthood, mainly for social anxiety, and now just to cope with the life of a busy working parent and spouse. DH has a disorder that is managed with medication and sees a therapist for that, as well as the same reason I do. One of our kids has special needs, and therapy is just a part of life with that. Our other DC started working with a therapist specializing in siblings of children with special needs, to help them process their own feelings about that. Since the pandemic, only the kids' therapies have continued on a regular basis, albeit virtually. Getting virtual appointments for DH and I has been a challenge that we let go, because it didn't feel like a top priority.

I dont know how my sister ended up like this. We've always been very, very different, especially as children. Her personality has always been high-strung, while everyone always told me I was mellow and low-key (or, as I often interpreted it, boring). I just want a calm, happy life with the people I love and who love me. I wish my sister was part of that circle.

Also, PP being called a hypocrite, I do appreciate the hindsight advice. I'm sorry you're living in regret, but you never know, there could still be time for you to at least reach out, if that's something you regret not having done before. Whatever the response, it may give you the closure your need.

I never called you a hypocrite!! ***I*** was the one being called a hypocrite by some agitated third party. I was giving you sincere advice.

I may call my sister, actually. Thank you.

Oh, sorry, I misread -- "being" called a hypocrite....

[Anonymous]

Oh, sorry, I misread -- "being" called a hypocrite....

No worries. Clearly I'm used to giving people a second chance. 😉