Jewish curious ….

[Anonymous]

There are roughly 15 million Jews in the world. Of those:

Ashkenazim: 10-11 million (so roughly 70% of all Jews)
Sephardim: 3.5 million (so roughly 23% of all Jews)
Mizrahim: 4.5 million (so roughly 30% of all Jews)

As you can see, there’s clearly overlap (primarily in Mizrahim and the other two major ethnic groups), but these three groups comprise the vast, vast majority of the world’s Jews.
There are smaller ethnic Jewish groups as well, across Africa, Central Asia, etc.

All of these groups have ethnic distinctions that are not subjective.

This DOES NOT mean converts are not fully part of the Jewish community, but please stop pretending as though the Jewish people are not an ethnoreligion. We always have been one and almost certainly always will be one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi, convert to Judaism here. When I began attending a synagogue and learning about Judaism, I was afraid that the focus in the liturgy and in the culture on ancestry and generational connection (what PP is describing as ethnicity) would always be a barrier to full Jewish life for me if I converted. That feeling that I would always be an outsider held me back for years. That's what the conversion process is for. I don't know any converts (and I know many across denominations, including rabbis) who continue to struggle with feeling part of the Jewish people after the mikveh, except when confronted by other Jews who question their legitimacy or start talking about how converts "from an ethnic standpoint, can never be" part of the Jewish people.

PP, how do you think Jewish adults who were converted at birth feel about their connection to the Jewish people? How about the children of converts? Not to mention how your argument perpetuates the struggles of Jews of color. I think it's time for you to stop "talking about how I think some converts might feel" and just let us speak for ourselves.

You act as though this is a subjective thing.

“Ashkenazi Jewish” is a genetically distinct ethnicity. Same thing with Sephardim and Mizrahim. I’m glad you feel part of the Jewish community. But please do not act as though an ethnic Jewish identity is something subjective. It is not.

Sure, then say “Ashkenazi Jewish ethnic identity” then. Ashkenazi Jewish is not the only Jewish identity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi, convert to Judaism here. When I began attending a synagogue and learning about Judaism, I was afraid that the focus in the liturgy and in the culture on ancestry and generational connection (what PP is describing as ethnicity) would always be a barrier to full Jewish life for me if I converted. That feeling that I would always be an outsider held me back for years. That's what the conversion process is for. I don't know any converts (and I know many across denominations, including rabbis) who continue to struggle with feeling part of the Jewish people after the mikveh, except when confronted by other Jews who question their legitimacy or start talking about how converts "from an ethnic standpoint, can never be" part of the Jewish people.

PP, how do you think Jewish adults who were converted at birth feel about their connection to the Jewish people? How about the children of converts? Not to mention how your argument perpetuates the struggles of Jews of color. I think it's time for you to stop "talking about how I think some converts might feel" and just let us speak for ourselves.

You act as though this is a subjective thing.

“Ashkenazi Jewish” is a genetically distinct ethnicity. Same thing with Sephardim and Mizrahim. I’m glad you feel part of the Jewish community. But please do not act as though an ethnic Jewish identity is something subjective. It is not.

Sure, then say “Ashkenazi Jewish ethnic identity” then. Ashkenazi Jewish is not the only Jewish identity.

When did I ever say it is?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi, convert to Judaism here. When I began attending a synagogue and learning about Judaism, I was afraid that the focus in the liturgy and in the culture on ancestry and generational connection (what PP is describing as ethnicity) would always be a barrier to full Jewish life for me if I converted. That feeling that I would always be an outsider held me back for years. That's what the conversion process is for. I don't know any converts (and I know many across denominations, including rabbis) who continue to struggle with feeling part of the Jewish people after the mikveh, except when confronted by other Jews who question their legitimacy or start talking about how converts "from an ethnic standpoint, can never be" part of the Jewish people.

PP, how do you think Jewish adults who were converted at birth feel about their connection to the Jewish people? How about the children of converts? Not to mention how your argument perpetuates the struggles of Jews of color. I think it's time for you to stop "talking about how I think some converts might feel" and just let us speak for ourselves.

Hey PP, just wanted to say that if you converted, you are a Jew. I’d be happy to have you for Seder or if you’re single, marry into my Jewish family. Any Jewish person who says otherwise is nothing but a shanda.

Thanks, my conversion was 11 years ago at this point. I'm happily married (by a rabbi in a Jewish ceremony) and have two Jewish kids of my own now! I'm very secure in my Jewish identity, but always appreciate when people are welcoming and push back against anti-convert bias!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi, convert to Judaism here. When I began attending a synagogue and learning about Judaism, I was afraid that the focus in the liturgy and in the culture on ancestry and generational connection (what PP is describing as ethnicity) would always be a barrier to full Jewish life for me if I converted. That feeling that I would always be an outsider held me back for years. That's what the conversion process is for. I don't know any converts (and I know many across denominations, including rabbis) who continue to struggle with feeling part of the Jewish people after the mikveh, except when confronted by other Jews who question their legitimacy or start talking about how converts "from an ethnic standpoint, can never be" part of the Jewish people.

PP, how do you think Jewish adults who were converted at birth feel about their connection to the Jewish people? How about the children of converts? Not to mention how your argument perpetuates the struggles of Jews of color. I think it's time for you to stop "talking about how I think some converts might feel" and just let us speak for ourselves.

Hey PP, just wanted to say that if you converted, you are a Jew. I’d be happy to have you for Seder or if you’re single, marry into my Jewish family. Any Jewish person who says otherwise is nothing but a shanda.

Thanks, my conversion was 11 years ago at this point. I'm happily married (by a rabbi in a Jewish ceremony) and have two Jewish kids of my own now! I'm very secure in my Jewish identity, but always appreciate when people are welcoming and push back against anti-convert bias!

There’s no anti-convert bias on this thread.

What is happening is a minimization of Jewishness as an ethnicity, which is offensive. But no one has said converts are not Jews.

[Anonymous]

I’m happy that people choose to convert.

I’m also very proud to have been born a Jew, and I will never apologize for it, nor will I allow people to act as though Jewish ethnicity is subjective or should be put in quotations.

It is an identity that has survived multiple genocides. Those genocides were as much or more about Jewish ethnicity than they were about Judaism the religion. Hitler didn’t care whether someone was practicing the religion. He killed based on ethnicity. The existence of a Jewish ethnic identity is a big reason why many Europeans did not see Jews as white for many hundreds of years.

I can be welcoming of converts to the religion and proud of my ethnicity at the same time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m happy that people choose to convert.

I’m also very proud to have been born a Jew, and I will never apologize for it, nor will I allow people to act as though Jewish ethnicity is subjective or should be put in quotations.

It is an identity that has survived multiple genocides. Those genocides were as much or more about Jewish ethnicity than they were about Judaism the religion. Hitler didn’t care whether someone was practicing the religion. He killed based on ethnicity. The existence of a Jewish ethnic identity is a big reason why many Europeans did not see Jews as white for many hundreds of years.

I can be welcoming of converts to the religion and proud of my ethnicity at the same time.

Who is saying you shouldn't be proud of your ethnicity?
There is a difference between saying "I'm very proud to have been born a Jew," and "[Converts] are not part of the Jewish people, from an ethnic standpoint, and never can be." Just end your statement on the positive affirmation of yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Torah contains no reference to converts to Judaism. It describes the history of the Jewish people as a nationality and ethnicity. The notion of conversion is one entirely invented outside the Torah itself.

Really? When Solomon dedicated the temple he expressly mentioned that foreigners and strangers should also be welcomed by God

That isn’t about conversion.

People praying at the Temple? Based on your interpretation

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m happy that people choose to convert.

I’m also very proud to have been born a Jew, and I will never apologize for it, nor will I allow people to act as though Jewish ethnicity is subjective or should be put in quotations.

It is an identity that has survived multiple genocides. Those genocides were as much or more about Jewish ethnicity than they were about Judaism the religion. Hitler didn’t care whether someone was practicing the religion. He killed based on ethnicity. The existence of a Jewish ethnic identity is a big reason why many Europeans did not see Jews as white for many hundreds of years.

I can be welcoming of converts to the religion and proud of my ethnicity at the same time.

Who is saying you shouldn't be proud of your ethnicity?
There is a difference between saying "I'm very proud to have been born a Jew," and "[Converts] are not part of the Jewish people, from an ethnic standpoint, and never can be." Just end your statement on the positive affirmation of yourself.

When people put ethnicity in quotes, they are minimizing it as a legitimate identity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Torah contains no reference to converts to Judaism. It describes the history of the Jewish people as a nationality and ethnicity. The notion of conversion is one entirely invented outside the Torah itself.

Really? When Solomon dedicated the temple he expressly mentioned that foreigners and strangers should also be welcomed by God

That isn’t about conversion.

People praying at the Temple? Based on your interpretation

Being welcomed by God is not conversion.

[Anonymous]

I’m the OP. Wow, some posters really make a lot of assumptions. My roots are such that there’s actually a very good chance that I have Jewish ancestry - not Ashkenazi, but Jewish. My ancestry is Portuguese and from a small village where there were Jews but many people converted. It’s a point of curiosity, not my identity, but many of the assumptions about Judaism and ethnicity in the US are firmly rooted in the Ashkenazi experience. There are people all over South America, Africa, France, Spain and Portugal who have Jewish ancestry but may not even know it. I’ve read that as many as 20% of Iberian men have Jewish ancestry. Expand that to all the former colonies of Spain and Portugal, and you have lots of people who have Jewish DNA but do not practice the religion nor identify as Jewish.

Anywho… Thanks to those who directed me to resources. I will look into them.

[Anonymous]

Sixth & I and the JCC have intro to Judaism classes with no expectation for conversion but cater to the Jewish curious (as well as those born Jewish but raised secular). 92Y in NYC also had the same class offered remotely during covid at least. They book out months in advance though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m the OP. Wow, some posters really make a lot of assumptions. My roots are such that there’s actually a very good chance that I have Jewish ancestry - not Ashkenazi, but Jewish. My ancestry is Portuguese and from a small village where there were Jews but many people converted. It’s a point of curiosity, not my identity, but many of the assumptions about Judaism and ethnicity in the US are firmly rooted in the Ashkenazi experience. There are people all over South America, Africa, France, Spain and Portugal who have Jewish ancestry but may not even know it. I’ve read that as many as 20% of Iberian men have Jewish ancestry. Expand that to all the former colonies of Spain and Portugal, and you have lots of people who have Jewish DNA but do not practice the religion nor identify as Jewish.

Anywho… Thanks to those who directed me to resources. I will look into them.

Are you…goysplaining to Jews about Jewishness?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m the OP. Wow, some posters really make a lot of assumptions. My roots are such that there’s actually a very good chance that I have Jewish ancestry - not Ashkenazi, but Jewish. My ancestry is Portuguese and from a small village where there were Jews but many people converted. It’s a point of curiosity, not my identity, but many of the assumptions about Judaism and ethnicity in the US are firmly rooted in the Ashkenazi experience. There are people all over South America, Africa, France, Spain and Portugal who have Jewish ancestry but may not even know it. I’ve read that as many as 20% of Iberian men have Jewish ancestry. Expand that to all the former colonies of Spain and Portugal, and you have lots of people who have Jewish DNA but do not practice the religion nor identify as Jewish.

Anywho… Thanks to those who directed me to resources. I will look into them.

Are you…goysplaining to Jews about Jewishness?

😂😂 Well the poster didn’t understand when Jews explained it to him, maybe if the goy did, he would understand … 😉

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sixth & I and the JCC have intro to Judaism classes with no expectation for conversion but cater to the Jewish curious (as well as those born Jewish but raised secular). 92Y in NYC also had the same class offered remotely during covid at least. They book out months in advance though.

Thank you! This is very helpful.

Thank you to all of those people who have been helpful throughout the thread. Really.