Jewish curious ….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many Jews will not accept you as a Jew if you're a convert. That's just the way it is.

Well, 99% will. not sure what you're trying to say

It’s funny, even though converts are much more observant than I, I never truly accept them as Jewish. Culturally, they’re just not the same. I feel slightly bad about feeling this way, but I still feel it.

Judaism is an ethno-religion. That’s why you feel that way. One can be ethnically Jewish—through having Jewish bloodlines—and have no knowledge of Judaism as a religion.

Roughly 10-11 million of the approximately 16 million Jews in the world are Ashkenazi, which is an ethnicity. If you’re Ashkenazi, you’re Jewish. Doesn’t matter if you’re even aware of your Ashkenazi identity; you’re still an Ashkenazi Jew.

Same thing, I believe, for Sephardim and Mizrahim, which comprise essentially all of the remaining Jews in the world.

Of course, converts are just as Jewish as anyone else is, from a religious standpoint, and they should be accepted in synagogues. But they are not part of the Jewish people, from an ethnic standpoint, and never can be. That’s quite significant, given how much of the Jewish year is taken up with holidays and observances that celebrate or commemorate events in the history of the Jewish people. I’ve often wondered whether a convert would feel as though they can connect with those traditions, when it isn’t their history.

That's what happens when culture is divorced from religion. As an Orthodox Jew, I believe someone who converts properly is a full Jew and accept them whole heatedly. On the other hand, I would not believe that an ethnic Jew with a non mother is Jewish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many Jews will not accept you as a Jew if you're a convert. That's just the way it is.

Well, 99% will. not sure what you're trying to say

It’s funny, even though converts are much more observant than I, I never truly accept them as Jewish. Culturally, they’re just not the same. I feel slightly bad about feeling this way, but I still feel it.

Judaism is an ethno-religion. That’s why you feel that way. One can be ethnically Jewish—through having Jewish bloodlines—and have no knowledge of Judaism as a religion.

Roughly 10-11 million of the approximately 16 million Jews in the world are Ashkenazi, which is an ethnicity. If you’re Ashkenazi, you’re Jewish. Doesn’t matter if you’re even aware of your Ashkenazi identity; you’re still an Ashkenazi Jew.

Same thing, I believe, for Sephardim and Mizrahim, which comprise essentially all of the remaining Jews in the world.

Of course, converts are just as Jewish as anyone else is, from a religious standpoint, and they should be accepted in synagogues. But they are not part of the Jewish people, from an ethnic standpoint, and never can be. That’s quite significant, given how much of the Jewish year is taken up with holidays and observances that celebrate or commemorate events in the history of the Jewish people. I’ve often wondered whether a convert would feel as though they can connect with those traditions, when it isn’t their history.

That's what happens when culture is divorced from religion. As an Orthodox Jew, I believe someone who converts properly is a full Jew and accept them whole heatedly. On the other hand, I would not believe that an ethnic Jew with a non mother is Jewish.

What’s a non-mother?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many Jews will not accept you as a Jew if you're a convert. That's just the way it is.

Well, 99% will. not sure what you're trying to say

It’s funny, even though converts are much more observant than I, I never truly accept them as Jewish. Culturally, they’re just not the same. I feel slightly bad about feeling this way, but I still feel it.

Judaism is an ethno-religion. That’s why you feel that way. One can be ethnically Jewish—through having Jewish bloodlines—and have no knowledge of Judaism as a religion.

Roughly 10-11 million of the approximately 16 million Jews in the world are Ashkenazi, which is an ethnicity. If you’re Ashkenazi, you’re Jewish. Doesn’t matter if you’re even aware of your Ashkenazi identity; you’re still an Ashkenazi Jew.

Same thing, I believe, for Sephardim and Mizrahim, which comprise essentially all of the remaining Jews in the world.

Of course, converts are just as Jewish as anyone else is, from a religious standpoint, and they should be accepted in synagogues. But they are not part of the Jewish people, from an ethnic standpoint, and never can be. That’s quite significant, given how much of the Jewish year is taken up with holidays and observances that celebrate or commemorate events in the history of the Jewish people. I’ve often wondered whether a convert would feel as though they can connect with those traditions, when it isn’t their history.

That's what happens when culture is divorced from religion. As an Orthodox Jew, I believe someone who converts properly is a full Jew and accept them whole heatedly. On the other hand, I would not believe that an ethnic Jew with a non mother is Jewish.

It’s more than culture; it’s ethnicity. It’s genetics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many Jews will not accept you as a Jew if you're a convert. That's just the way it is.

Well, 99% will. not sure what you're trying to say

It’s funny, even though converts are much more observant than I, I never truly accept them as Jewish. Culturally, they’re just not the same. I feel slightly bad about feeling this way, but I still feel it.

Judaism is an ethno-religion. That’s why you feel that way. One can be ethnically Jewish—through having Jewish bloodlines—and have no knowledge of Judaism as a religion.

Roughly 10-11 million of the approximately 16 million Jews in the world are Ashkenazi, which is an ethnicity. If you’re Ashkenazi, you’re Jewish. Doesn’t matter if you’re even aware of your Ashkenazi identity; you’re still an Ashkenazi Jew.

Same thing, I believe, for Sephardim and Mizrahim, which comprise essentially all of the remaining Jews in the world.

Of course, converts are just as Jewish as anyone else is, from a religious standpoint, and they should be accepted in synagogues. But they are not part of the Jewish people, from an ethnic standpoint, and never can be. That’s quite significant, given how much of the Jewish year is taken up with holidays and observances that celebrate or commemorate events in the history of the Jewish people. I’ve often wondered whether a convert would feel as though they can connect with those traditions, when it isn’t their history.

That's what happens when culture is divorced from religion. As an Orthodox Jew, I believe someone who converts properly is a full Jew and accept them whole heatedly. On the other hand, I would not believe that an ethnic Jew with a non mother is Jewish.

What’s a non-mother?

I think PP means a non-Jewish mother. Orthodox Jews generally still adhere to the notion that one’s Jewish identity runs through one’s mother. That belief is less prevalent among Conservative Jews and basically non-existent among Reform Jews. As long as you have one Jewish parent, you’re Jewish — doesn’t matter if it’s your mother or father.

[Anonymous]

You will probably find most success with a reform welcoming temple. I think Washington Hebrew would be very welcoming. I would contact them and see whether you could speak with one of the rabbis (they are all very nice and approachable and open minded). They likely have a class for the type of thing you are looking for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many Jews will not accept you as a Jew if you're a convert. That's just the way it is.

Well, 99% will. not sure what you're trying to say

It’s funny, even though converts are much more observant than I, I never truly accept them as Jewish. Culturally, they’re just not the same. I feel slightly bad about feeling this way, but I still feel it.

Judaism is an ethno-religion. That’s why you feel that way. One can be ethnically Jewish—through having Jewish bloodlines—and have no knowledge of Judaism as a religion.

Roughly 10-11 million of the approximately 16 million Jews in the world are Ashkenazi, which is an ethnicity. If you’re Ashkenazi, you’re Jewish. Doesn’t matter if you’re even aware of your Ashkenazi identity; you’re still an Ashkenazi Jew.

Same thing, I believe, for Sephardim and Mizrahim, which comprise essentially all of the remaining Jews in the world.

Of course, converts are just as Jewish as anyone else is, from a religious standpoint, and they should be accepted in synagogues. But they are not part of the Jewish people, from an ethnic standpoint, and never can be. That’s quite significant, given how much of the Jewish year is taken up with holidays and observances that celebrate or commemorate events in the history of the Jewish people. I’ve often wondered whether a convert would feel as though they can connect with those traditions, when it isn’t their history.

That's what happens when culture is divorced from religion. As an Orthodox Jew, I believe someone who converts properly is a full Jew and accept them whole heatedly. On the other hand, I would not believe that an ethnic Jew with a non mother is Jewish.

What’s a non-mother?

I think PP means a non-Jewish mother. Orthodox Jews generally still adhere to the notion that one’s Jewish identity runs through one’s mother. That belief is less prevalent among Conservative Jews and basically non-existent among Reform Jews. As long as you have one Jewish parent, you’re Jewish — doesn’t matter if it’s your mother or father.

Typo. I think I originally typed non Jewish mother and didn't edit it properly. I meant non Jewish mother

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many Jews will not accept you as a Jew if you're a convert. That's just the way it is.

Well, 99% will. not sure what you're trying to say

It’s funny, even though converts are much more observant than I, I never truly accept them as Jewish. Culturally, they’re just not the same. I feel slightly bad about feeling this way, but I still feel it.

Judaism is an ethno-religion. That’s why you feel that way. One can be ethnically Jewish—through having Jewish bloodlines—and have no knowledge of Judaism as a religion.

Roughly 10-11 million of the approximately 16 million Jews in the world are Ashkenazi, which is an ethnicity. If you’re Ashkenazi, you’re Jewish. Doesn’t matter if you’re even aware of your Ashkenazi identity; you’re still an Ashkenazi Jew.

Same thing, I believe, for Sephardim and Mizrahim, which comprise essentially all of the remaining Jews in the world.

Of course, converts are just as Jewish as anyone else is, from a religious standpoint, and they should be accepted in synagogues. But they are not part of the Jewish people, from an ethnic standpoint, and never can be. That’s quite significant, given how much of the Jewish year is taken up with holidays and observances that celebrate or commemorate events in the history of the Jewish people. I’ve often wondered whether a convert would feel as though they can connect with those traditions, when it isn’t their history.

Your worldview is small. How can a person commemorate events that weren’t in their history? Have you asked any of the millions of immigrants to the United States who happily celebrate the 4th of July and embrace our traditions? People who relocate to a new state / area and adopt the traditions there (move to the south, start caring about college football, etc).

Our temple has many folks who have converted to Judaism and they are active congregants. Your world view is parochial and is one of the reasons people leave Judaism (not welcoming, tribalism).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many Jews will not accept you as a Jew if you're a convert. That's just the way it is.

Well, 99% will. not sure what you're trying to say

It’s funny, even though converts are much more observant than I, I never truly accept them as Jewish. Culturally, they’re just not the same. I feel slightly bad about feeling this way, but I still feel it.

Judaism is an ethno-religion. That’s why you feel that way. One can be ethnically Jewish—through having Jewish bloodlines—and have no knowledge of Judaism as a religion.

Roughly 10-11 million of the approximately 16 million Jews in the world are Ashkenazi, which is an ethnicity. If you’re Ashkenazi, you’re Jewish. Doesn’t matter if you’re even aware of your Ashkenazi identity; you’re still an Ashkenazi Jew.

Same thing, I believe, for Sephardim and Mizrahim, which comprise essentially all of the remaining Jews in the world.

Of course, converts are just as Jewish as anyone else is, from a religious standpoint, and they should be accepted in synagogues. But they are not part of the Jewish people, from an ethnic standpoint, and never can be. That’s quite significant, given how much of the Jewish year is taken up with holidays and observances that celebrate or commemorate events in the history of the Jewish people. I’ve often wondered whether a convert would feel as though they can connect with those traditions, when it isn’t their history.

Your worldview is small. How can a person commemorate events that weren’t in their history? Have you asked any of the millions of immigrants to the United States who happily celebrate the 4th of July and embrace our traditions? People who relocate to a new state / area and adopt the traditions there (move to the south, start caring about college football, etc).

Our temple has many folks who have converted to Judaism and they are active congregants. Your world view is parochial and is one of the reasons people leave Judaism (not welcoming, tribalism).

You’re not understanding my post. The existence of a Jewish ethnicity isn’t an opinion; it’s fact. I *never* once said that converts to Judaism should be anything but 100% welcomed.

But look at your own words: you said “embrace our traditions.” Implicit in that statement is the notion that immigrants are embracing traditions that aren’t their own. Have you asked immigrants how they feel about celebrating the 4th of July? My guess is that some feel totally comfortable with it, while others might still feel as though they’re not 100% part of everything, despite being American via naturalization. Viewpoints undoubtedly vary. That was my point.

[Anonymous]

Are you a woman wanting to get married?
Are you a man wanting to get married?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are Introduction to Judaism classes at the DCJCC and several congregations, or online through https://reformjudaism.org/learning/judaism-classes/introduction-to-judaism

I think that's a good way to start. If you decide you want to convert, visit some temples and see what denomination seems like a good fit, then once you have been going for a while talk to the rabbis. You'll want to do conversion through the denomination you plan to stay in, since they don't always recognize each other's conversions.

I hope you find what you're seeking, OP!

OP, I'm a recent convert to Judaism and I started with this class. I'm in Northern Virginia and affliated with Temple Rodef Shalom. I had a great relationship with the rabbi and she guided me through the process. I wound up converting and then was part of the adult B'nai Mitzvah class a few years ago.

Good luck in your search!

Thank you!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Many Jews will not accept you as a Jew if you're a convert. That's just the way it is.

I'm a convert (Conservative) and accepted by most Jews. Even Orthodox Jews aren't actively antagonistic or denouncing me. They aren't going to give me an aliyah or count me in a minyan, but they treat me with respect. Stop stirring the pot, PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Of course, converts are just as Jewish as anyone else is, from a religious standpoint, and they should be accepted in synagogues. But they are not part of the Jewish people, from an ethnic standpoint, and never can be. That’s quite significant, given how much of the Jewish year is taken up with holidays and observances that celebrate or commemorate events in the history of the Jewish people. I’ve often wondered whether a convert would feel as though they can connect with those traditions, when it isn’t their history.

Your worldview is small. How can a person commemorate events that weren’t in their history? Have you asked any of the millions of immigrants to the United States who happily celebrate the 4th of July and embrace our traditions? People who relocate to a new state / area and adopt the traditions there (move to the south, start caring about college football, etc).

Our temple has many folks who have converted to Judaism and they are active congregants. Your world view is parochial and is one of the reasons people leave Judaism (not welcoming, tribalism).

You’re not understanding my post. The existence of a Jewish ethnicity isn’t an opinion; it’s fact. I *never* once said that converts to Judaism should be anything but 100% welcomed.

But look at your own words: you said “embrace our traditions.” Implicit in that statement is the notion that immigrants are embracing traditions that aren’t their own. Have you asked immigrants how they feel about celebrating the 4th of July? My guess is that some feel totally comfortable with it, while others might still feel as though they’re not 100% part of everything, despite being American via naturalization. Viewpoints undoubtedly vary. That was my point.
I think you're trying to split hairs here. How much of the Jewish year is taken up by ethnic commemoration that is not also religious? I'm not sure you've been paying attention to the holidays that we observe throughout the year. We aren't even a month past Shavuot, where everyone we're told everyone stood at Sinai - past, present and future Jews, converts, etc. We just read the Book of Ruth, where Ruth becomes part of Naomi's family and the ancestor of the Messiah. Converts become "b'nei Avraham v'Sarah" (children of Avraham and Sarah), adopted into the Jewish peoplehood. There are multiple times throughout the Torah that we are commanded not to oppress the ger (the stranger or convert). It doesn't say "don't oppress them religiously, but feel free to make them feel like ethnic outsiders."

I'm a different poster, but as for your attempt to pick apart "embracing our traditions" as some sort of signal that immigrants are never really part of us, have you ever been to a naturalization ceremony? July 4 is coming up and I'm sure you can find one near you to attend. It's very moving. "They" become "us" and those traditions are all of "ours" together.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Of course, converts are just as Jewish as anyone else is, from a religious standpoint, and they should be accepted in synagogues. But they are not part of the Jewish people, from an ethnic standpoint, and never can be. That’s quite significant, given how much of the Jewish year is taken up with holidays and observances that celebrate or commemorate events in the history of the Jewish people. I’ve often wondered whether a convert would feel as though they can connect with those traditions, when it isn’t their history.

Your worldview is small. How can a person commemorate events that weren’t in their history? Have you asked any of the millions of immigrants to the United States who happily celebrate the 4th of July and embrace our traditions? People who relocate to a new state / area and adopt the traditions there (move to the south, start caring about college football, etc).

Our temple has many folks who have converted to Judaism and they are active congregants. Your world view is parochial and is one of the reasons people leave Judaism (not welcoming, tribalism).

You’re not understanding my post. The existence of a Jewish ethnicity isn’t an opinion; it’s fact. I *never* once said that converts to Judaism should be anything but 100% welcomed.

But look at your own words: you said “embrace our traditions.” Implicit in that statement is the notion that immigrants are embracing traditions that aren’t their own. Have you asked immigrants how they feel about celebrating the 4th of July? My guess is that some feel totally comfortable with it, while others might still feel as though they’re not 100% part of everything, despite being American via naturalization. Viewpoints undoubtedly vary. That was my point.

I think you're trying to split hairs here. How much of the Jewish year is taken up by ethnic commemoration that is not also religious? I'm not sure you've been paying attention to the holidays that we observe throughout the year. We aren't even a month past Shavuot, where everyone we're told everyone stood at Sinai - past, present and future Jews, converts, etc. We just read the Book of Ruth, where Ruth becomes part of Naomi's family and the ancestor of the Messiah. Converts become "b'nei Avraham v'Sarah" (children of Avraham and Sarah), adopted into the Jewish peoplehood. There are multiple times throughout the Torah that we are commanded not to oppress the ger (the stranger or convert). It doesn't say "don't oppress them religiously, but feel free to make them feel like ethnic outsiders."

I'm a different poster, but as for your attempt to pick apart "embracing our traditions" as some sort of signal that immigrants are never really part of us, have you ever been to a naturalization ceremony? July 4 is coming up and I'm sure you can find one near you to attend. It's very moving. "They" become "us" and those traditions are all of "ours" together.
Sorry, I did the quoting wrong. I think I fixed it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many Jews will not accept you as a Jew if you're a convert. That's just the way it is.

I'm a convert (Conservative) and accepted by most Jews. Even Orthodox Jews aren't actively antagonistic or denouncing me. They aren't going to give me an aliyah or count me in a minyan, but they treat me with respect. Stop stirring the pot, PP.

If they don’t count you in a minyan or give you an Aliyah, they aren’t treating you with respect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Of course, converts are just as Jewish as anyone else is, from a religious standpoint, and they should be accepted in synagogues. But they are not part of the Jewish people, from an ethnic standpoint, and never can be. That’s quite significant, given how much of the Jewish year is taken up with holidays and observances that celebrate or commemorate events in the history of the Jewish people. I’ve often wondered whether a convert would feel as though they can connect with those traditions, when it isn’t their history.

Your worldview is small. How can a person commemorate events that weren’t in their history? Have you asked any of the millions of immigrants to the United States who happily celebrate the 4th of July and embrace our traditions? People who relocate to a new state / area and adopt the traditions there (move to the south, start caring about college football, etc).

Our temple has many folks who have converted to Judaism and they are active congregants. Your world view is parochial and is one of the reasons people leave Judaism (not welcoming, tribalism).

You’re not understanding my post. The existence of a Jewish ethnicity isn’t an opinion; it’s fact. I *never* once said that converts to Judaism should be anything but 100% welcomed.

But look at your own words: you said “embrace our traditions.” Implicit in that statement is the notion that immigrants are embracing traditions that aren’t their own. Have you asked immigrants how they feel about celebrating the 4th of July? My guess is that some feel totally comfortable with it, while others might still feel as though they’re not 100% part of everything, despite being American via naturalization. Viewpoints undoubtedly vary. That was my point.

I think you're trying to split hairs here. How much of the Jewish year is taken up by ethnic commemoration that is not also religious? I'm not sure you've been paying attention to the holidays that we observe throughout the year. We aren't even a month past Shavuot, where everyone we're told everyone stood at Sinai - past, present and future Jews, converts, etc. We just read the Book of Ruth, where Ruth becomes part of Naomi's family and the ancestor of the Messiah. Converts become "b'nei Avraham v'Sarah" (children of Avraham and Sarah), adopted into the Jewish peoplehood. There are multiple times throughout the Torah that we are commanded not to oppress the ger (the stranger or convert). It doesn't say "don't oppress them religiously, but feel free to make them feel like ethnic outsiders."

I'm a different poster, but as for your attempt to pick apart "embracing our traditions" as some sort of signal that immigrants are never really part of us, have you ever been to a naturalization ceremony? July 4 is coming up and I'm sure you can find one near you to attend. It's very moving. "They" become "us" and those traditions are all of "ours" together.

Sorry, I did the quoting wrong. I think I fixed it.

You’re still not getting it.