Do you think the costs of professional school (med, law, dental etc) are unsustainable?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Just as an example, there is a serious shortage of vets. My DD is a junior in college and has been taking a pre-vet curriculum and has done well academically. She worked at a vet’s office in high school and it is all she has ever wanted to do, but after a ton of research and discussions with practicing vets, she is pivoting to considering other paths because the debt to income ratio is terrifying. We saved and were able to put her through college without borrowing any money, and are not low income enough that she could qualify for any kind of need based grants, but we can’t help her further because we have to ensure our retirement savings are secure. I’m sad for her of course, but the societal impacts of this playing out across a lot of professions are profound.

If she really understands what it’s like to be a vet (example: putting animals to sleep, and getting bitten) and is OK with that, she should just borrow the money and be a vet. There will be a lot of inflation, and the inflation means the value of fixed-rate debt will be a lot lower than it looks today.

Kids shouldn’t take on a lot of debt for a graduate degree where the career path is fuzzy (example: art, or law), but it’s obvious that a good vet can get a great job. The only question is what the income-to-loan-payment ratio will be. But your daughter doesn’t have any huge fixed costs, and it sounds as if she won’t have to support you when you’re older. Your daughter should just take a leap of faith and fill her brain with the knowledge she wants to put in her brain, even if that means taking on a lot of debt.

This whole thread is an example of why kids who can gamble on a high-value professional degree should make that bet. Obviously, scarcity is about to increase the lifetime value of many types of professional degrees.

NP and wow this is just horrible, stupid advice!

The OP already explained there is a debt to income ratio issue. I am guessing you failed to understand that it isn’t a temporary situation. It can be lifelong. Vets can only charge what the market in their area can sustain and they will often pay other business expenses plus carry insurance. It means they may be paying off student debt for the rest of their life and that’s not an exaggeration.

To the OP, my DD had the same dream of being a vet, loves animals and is in her freshman year. She has been doing more research and talking to older students and has decided to stay the pre- vet course for now but I have a feeling she will not apply to vet school. She mentioned she found some information that the military might have an option for vets but she has no real interest in joining the military. Rural areas with farms are going to be hit in the coming years as many vets will retire. I hope states begin to consider expanding their vet programs to allow more students to study and also reduce the cost of tuition.

Is there PA or NP kind of education for vet school?

I hope not. Most people outside of healthcare aren’t aware of this, but mid-level creep is wreaking havoc. Hospitals would prefer to hire a cheap NP. And DNP degrees are a joke, usually taken as online degrees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child graduated with med school debt only (we paid living expenses). He has continuously paid down his debt thru residency and during the pandemic pause. He starts his attending job this summer and will continue to pay much more than is required. So, paying off your debt is doable, but you have to make it a priority.

This is such a smug response. Do you seriously think paying down debt is not a “priority” for people with $400k of student loan debt? And of course your kid has it easier—you paid four years of living expenses. That’s a LOT of money. Tack that on to tuition and start adding interest and see how much less “doable” this would be for your student. And I bet you subsidized them in other ways you aren’t mentioning, like insurance, phone, transportation, clothing, and so forth.[/quote

I apparently am the smug poster. I am very well aware of the high interest rate and read everyday on this forum about the people who opted out of paying school loans during the pandemic for no other reason that they didn’t have to. No unemployment, but just didn’t pay. Big mistake Democrats. Well, my kid made a different choice and kept paying down his loans. In addition, every medical student had the option and opportunity to pursue the military to avoid these loans.

-The smug one

Medical school and military option - there is actually a couple options and one is if you agree to work in rural military bases in the US, then a portion of your loans are forgiven after a certain number of years of service but not all loans are forgiven.

This might surprise you but just because you show up at the recruiter and say hey I want to be a doctor sign me up for the military and pay for my med school, they might not agree and say nope sorry. But you can join the military for x number of years, do this other job, and then get the GI bill which itself is not endless and isn't going to cover the full amount of med school.

[Anonymous]

Best thing we did for our kid - who was dead set on being a lawyer starting in HS - is insisting on state school for undergrad. The ability to graduate debt free from a top 10 law school is life changing. It has been said before and it is true - for professional schools it’s all about grades and scores. Sinking everything you have into the undergraduate basket is insanity - the long game is the way to go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Best thing we did for our kid - who was dead set on being a lawyer starting in HS - is insisting on state school for undergrad. The ability to graduate debt free from a top 10 law school is life changing. It has been said before and it is true - for professional schools it’s all about grades and scores. Sinking everything you have into the undergraduate basket is insanity - the long game is the way to go.

No it isn’t. It’s as you describe for law only. MBA programs are “holistic” in the sense that you need the “right” work experience to get in—McD’s manager doesn’t cut it. Med schools require research experience that is difficult to get at R2 schools and below.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Best thing we did for our kid - who was dead set on being a lawyer starting in HS - is insisting on state school for undergrad. The ability to graduate debt free from a top 10 law school is life changing. It has been said before and it is true - for professional schools it’s all about grades and scores. Sinking everything you have into the undergraduate basket is insanity - the long game is the way to go.

No it isn’t. It’s as you describe for law only. MBA programs are “holistic” in the sense that you need the “right” work experience to get in—McD’s manager doesn’t cut it. Med schools require research experience that is difficult to get at R2 schools and below.

Holistic might mean looking at the circumstances of the McD's manager and realize they had to work really hard to get where they are and be able to apply to MBA programs.

[Anonymous]

I was at Georgetown Law during the 2008 downturn and it was bleak. Many very good students graduated with mountains of debt and never got a legal job. I think it's still a good choice during normal economic times, but you better have a darn good plan if the economy goes south.

I think the government should make school eligibility for GradPlus loans contingent on having a low default rate. If a school is graduating many students who can't pay their loans, then the government should stop offering loans to students from that school. This would incentivize schools to adjust their class sizes and prioritize post-graduate employment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was at Georgetown Law during the 2008 downturn and it was bleak. Many very good students graduated with mountains of debt and never got a legal job. I think it's still a good choice during normal economic times, but you better have a darn good plan if the economy goes south.

I think the government should make school eligibility for GradPlus loans contingent on having a low default rate. If a school is graduating many students who can't pay their loans, then the government should stop offering loans to students from that school. This would incentivize schools to adjust their class sizes and prioritize post-graduate employment.

This is already in place for undergrad loans—a school can’t have a cohort default rate over X%. I support that.

[Anonymous]

Law is very risky, but lawyers tend to have other qualities to fall back on. Unfortunately with Medical School, there will be some who never find residencies, never practice medicine. This would be an enormous debt to pay back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Law is very risky, but lawyers tend to have other qualities to fall back on. Unfortunately with Medical School, there will be some who never find residencies, never practice medicine. This would be an enormous debt to pay back.

Caribbean grads are mostly the ones who don’t secure residencies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately we live in a country where the top priority is maintaining a bloated military establishment. With that absorbing so much if our national resources, higher education does not get funded the way it does in most first world nations.

Really? Salaries of professors have not kept pace with tuition increases. These schools are charging more to subsidize completely free tuition for people making less than a certain amount. Soon middle class students won't be able to afford college if tuition keeps on this path.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Best thing we did for our kid - who was dead set on being a lawyer starting in HS - is insisting on state school for undergrad. The ability to graduate debt free from a top 10 law school is life changing. It has been said before and it is true - for professional schools it’s all about grades and scores. Sinking everything you have into the undergraduate basket is insanity - the long game is the way to go.

No it isn’t. It’s as you describe for law only. MBA programs are “holistic” in the sense that you need the “right” work experience to get in—McD’s manager doesn’t cut it. Med schools require research experience that is difficult to get at R2 schools and below.

Not true re med school. You can go to any college as long as MCAT and grades are good. There are summer research programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately we live in a country where the top priority is maintaining a bloated military establishment. With that absorbing so much if our national resources, higher education does not get funded the way it does in most first world nations.

Really? Salaries of professors have not kept pace with tuition increases. These schools are charging more to subsidize completely free tuition for people making less than a certain amount. Soon middle class students won't be able to afford college if tuition keeps on this path.

Friendly reminder that that’s only happening at tippy top schools. If you are actually middle class you get great aid at top schools. It’s not middle class vs poor, it’s middle class and poor vs the rich. At most schools anyone who’s not rich is on significant student loans, re: your last sentence.

Do I really need to keep repeating this? Educate yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The key to graduate schools is going to in-state or public state schools where the costs are paid largely by the state which reduces the costs for tuition. Once the degree is completed, then go to private universities for internships, fellowships, or graduate teaching assistants reduces your costs and increases your teaching experiences.

UVA law school COA is about $90,000 per year.

[Anonymous]

Yes. I would absolutely go to law school but the costs are prohibitive, even at a 6-figure salary. If we want good lawyers, we need to lower the cost.

[Anonymous]

Medical school debt forgiveness does exist for doctors who practice in underserved areas for a certain number of years.

There are unfortunately many more med school students than resident spots for the “coveted” subspecialties.