Do you think the costs of professional school (med, law, dental etc) are unsustainable?

[Anonymous]

Young folks going to these programs entirely on credit. It’s a mess IMO. The schools know it’s entirely on credit and run $100k/tear.

[Anonymous]

Also, for med school, you can’t just “choose a cheaper school.” You go where you get in. The least selective med school (US) is University of Mississippi at 37%, and its only for MS residents.

[Anonymous]

Yes. Just as an example, there is a serious shortage of vets. My DD is a junior in college and has been taking a pre-vet curriculum and has done well academically. She worked at a vet’s office in high school and it is all she has ever wanted to do, but after a ton of research and discussions with practicing vets, she is pivoting to considering other paths because the debt to income ratio is terrifying. We saved and were able to put her through college without borrowing any money, and are not low income enough that she could qualify for any kind of need based grants, but we can’t help her further because we have to ensure our retirement savings are secure. I’m sad for her of course, but the societal impacts of this playing out across a lot of professions are profound.

[Anonymous]

The student must choose wisely. And then the student must spend wisely after graduating, paying down the debt as quickly as possible, avoid being trapped by the "golden handcuffs."

I attended a T14, borrowed it all, and paid it off in a few years in BigLaw. No regrets. My general opinion is T14-or-bust, and that has been my advice to my kids. (Sure, for some people, lower rank on a giant scholarship may make sense, if they intend to practice local to the law school - depends on what the person's goal is. But to have one's career options wide open, then T14.)

[Anonymous]

^^Sorry, I should specify that I was referring to law school. Each field is a different ball of wax. I don't know enough about medicine to say...

[Anonymous]

Absolutely

[Anonymous]

Yes. The market cannot sustain it. At least in law, I can't speak to the others.

Right now a big part of the conversation around student debt forgiveness is the idea that we shouldn't forgive the debt of "high paid professionals" because it's like giving these degrees away. But I personally know a number of law school graduates who have never really benefitted financially from those degrees (both people who went to well known and respected schools and some who went to what could be considered diploma mills) and still owe astronomical amounts of money. And the jobs just are not there for them. Especially people who graduated into that down market in 2008/2010 -- some of these folks had decent grades from good law schools but graduated when law firms were deleveraging and many major government employers (including the entire state of California) had extended hiring freezes due to budget shortfalls). They wound up doing doc review as contract attorneys and taking law-adjacent jobs that didn't really reward them for their JDs or bar membership. And by the time the market recovered, they were 6-7 years out of law school and it's very hard to work your way back from that. Taking out 100k (sometimes more) in debt for a career like that is absolutely devastating. I know someone who committed suicide in this situation. Obviously he had serious mental health issues as well, but there is no question that crushing debt and limited job prospects played a big role in what happened.

And I went to law school almost 20 years ago. It's more expensive now. It's a different market with more demand, but outside of a narrow sliver of the market (Big Law associate salaries) the salaries do not justify the cost. Many firms have moved to hiring more staff attorneys and contract lawyers (who make less than associates and, importantly, have no path to counsel or partner roles) as they have re-leveraged with increased demand. It's good for firms but not for freshly minted law graduates.

I have come to think of a law degree as a very, very expensive lottery ticket. If you win, you win very big. But you are very unlikely to win. And unlike the lottery, it's not really chance either. It's going to be dictated by law school grades and connections. Most people entering law school won't get the grades they need (there's a curve, this is by design and definition) and very few have the necessary connections, to make money.

The one path that still makes sense is committing to public interest law and receiving debt forgiveness. But my understanding is that this has actually been quite hard until recently, and even now it's challenging even for those who have spent their entire careers in public interest roles. This should be more straightforward. There is also some weirdness here. All government jobs are considered public interest, but some of these jobs pay close to 200k a year and the relationship to public interest is loose (SEC lawyers technically work for the government but really only technically). It's weird to see debt forgiveness for those jobs but not for someone who has simply struggled to find decent-paying legal work in the private sector.

[Anonymous]

My child graduated with med school debt only (we paid living expenses). He has continuously paid down his debt thru residency and during the pandemic pause. He starts his attending job this summer and will continue to pay much more than is required. So, paying off your debt is doable, but you have to make it a priority.

[Anonymous]

It is different from undergrad (where you can theoretically choose to attend CC) and from researched-based degrees (PhDs) that can be fully-funded. I watched a YouTuber who went to CC for two years then SFSU for two and is graduating from DO school soon, but I suspect that is uncommon.

[Anonymous]

USC Dental tells incoming students that they should expect to rely on IBR for their loans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My child graduated with med school debt only (we paid living expenses). He has continuously paid down his debt thru residency and during the pandemic pause. He starts his attending job this summer and will continue to pay much more than is required. So, paying off your debt is doable, but you have to make it a priority.

This is such a smug response. Do you seriously think paying down debt is not a “priority” for people with $400k of student loan debt? And of course your kid has it easier—you paid four years of living expenses. That’s a LOT of money. Tack that on to tuition and start adding interest and see how much less “doable” this would be for your student. And I bet you subsidized them in other ways you aren’t mentioning, like insurance, phone, transportation, clothing, and so forth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Just as an example, there is a serious shortage of vets. My DD is a junior in college and has been taking a pre-vet curriculum and has done well academically. She worked at a vet’s office in high school and it is all she has ever wanted to do, but after a ton of research and discussions with practicing vets, she is pivoting to considering other paths because the debt to income ratio is terrifying. We saved and were able to put her through college without borrowing any money, and are not low income enough that she could qualify for any kind of need based grants, but we can’t help her further because we have to ensure our retirement savings are secure. I’m sad for her of course, but the societal impacts of this playing out across a lot of professions are profound.

Vet school is outrageously expensive ... and competitive. I've heard that it is tougher to get into a vet school than med school, and that's saying something. Sorry about your daughter. We need more good vets. Hope she finds a profession she loves and that she'll feel good knowing that she isn't tied to the ball and chain of grad school debt for the next 20 years.

[Anonymous]

Not sure I would have chosen law school if I had to take on significant debt to do so. Have friends not at firms who are twenty years out and still repaying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The student must choose wisely. And then the student must spend wisely after graduating, paying down the debt as quickly as possible, avoid being trapped by the "golden handcuffs."

I attended a T14, borrowed it all, and paid it off in a few years in BigLaw. No regrets. My general opinion is T14-or-bust, and that has been my advice to my kids. (Sure, for some people, lower rank on a giant scholarship may make sense, if they intend to practice local to the law school - depends on what the person's goal is. But to have one's career options wide open, then T14.)

It is T25 and even then all theway to T50 if you are at the top of the class. Real question though is not at the top of class at a lower school -- do you just frop it after first year?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My child graduated with med school debt only (we paid living expenses). He has continuously paid down his debt thru residency and during the pandemic pause. He starts his attending job this summer and will continue to pay much more than is required. So, paying off your debt is doable, but you have to make it a priority.

Yes, doable fir a doctor but as the PP pointed out not for any number of lawyers and many, many more