Test Optional : Game Changer

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Test optional saved my kid's mental health this year. We had a very traumatic family experience that led to serious depression and anxiety for my kid during junior year. Despite what she went through, she was able to maintain stellar grades. However, taking the SAT was just too much for her at the time. If she had been in a better state with her mental health I think she would have done quite well based on previous PSAT scores, etc. but I am so thankful we could take that stress off her. So far, she has been accepted into all the schools she applied to with merit aid (focused on matches and a couple of safeties, plus 1-2 reaches). If she has been in a situation where she had to take the test, I think we would be in a very different place. Lots of kids are struggling right now- test-optional is a way to take some of the pressure off when they need it.

You might want to think twice about putting a kid who is so prone to depression and anxiety that they cannot take the SAT into a highly competitive school. Just sayin.

I've seen a theme of comments like this on other threads and the tone is somehow that kids struggling with mental health issues are somehow 'weak.' Our focus, first and foremost, is to continue to support our child's mental health. She is continuing to progress well and will take a gap year to give herself some additional time to focus on that and the experiences she missed out on during the pandemic. In my experience, when people are supported and given the resources they need to get through a tough situation they can really thrive in all sorts of academic environments as long as it is a good fit for the individual.

You also have no idea what our family was experiencing at that time- most kids would not have been in a good place to take the SAT at that time. Thankfully, the schools she applied to are not as biased as you are and saw her for the strong student that she is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Years ago an admissions officer told me that like braces, a high test score mostly just tells you that the family has money.

What a stupid statement. There is free pre in Khan Academy. You don’t need money to prepare for the test.

Exactly. Lots of people assume "test prep" is some magical place where kids go to learn how to cheat. People assume these are crooked organizations who have copies of the test. The reality is most people are paying for a tutor. I got tired of fighting with my kids about the Khan Academy stuff they weren't doing. I hired a tutor for a short number of visits who gave them assignments out of one of the test prep books you can buy everywhere.

Test prep and tutoring for the SAT/ ACt is a billion dollar industry. Even the College Board is in on it!

Try again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Test optional is a smokescreen to perpetuate admission discrimination and everyone knows it. Can’t wait for the Supreme Court to rule on these “holistic” policies. Low achievers love them but I hope everyone who supports test optional chooses a degree optional doctor for their next major surgery.

+1

Most people don't research where their doctor went to med school, their class rank...

Are there MCAT optional med schools? Can you be a doctor without med school?
It is safe to assume every doctor took the MCAT and scores fairly well?
Yes, yes it is.

What BS/MD program is SAT/ACT optional? The ones I saw required test scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Strong correlation between test scores and general intelligence. It’s funny how the people who complain incessantly about standardized tests are inevitably low performers.

As long as prep is allowed, this is a dumb statement. According to you, my kid who got a 1500 without any prep at all was judged “as smart” as someone who spent $6,000 to bring a 1300 up to a 1500. My other kid got an 1180. They’ve both had multiple IQ tests and are in the same range. Dream on about the SAT being an IQ test. It is not.

I have two children as well and my 1550 kid is more intelligent than my 1170 kid. Just a fact. They both prepped a little through KHan and took a few paid proctored practice tests. $30 each. I don’t believe standardized tests scores are not linked to intelligence.. not only factor for sure but one. But I sure as hell think it is a better indicator than teacher recommendations at 2,000 student public high school!

+1
Or an essay that’s heavily edited.
SAT/ACT may not be a perfect indicator of intelligence but there is definitely a correlation.

Agree. You're not going to tutor a 1000 SAT score to a 1500+. Maybe 200 -250 pts. tops. The kids who get a 1500+ either started there or started at 1300+ and were tutored.

[Anonymous]

My 10th grade son is 2e. Tests at 135 GAI. He was getting straight As but panicked, apparently, and got a 1100 on his PSAT. I’m assuming it will go up for the SAT but I’m not sure how much test prep to pour into this when he’s probably a good TO candidate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Strong correlation between test scores and general intelligence. It’s funny how the people who complain incessantly about standardized tests are inevitably low performers.

As long as prep is allowed, this is a dumb statement. According to you, my kid who got a 1500 without any prep at all was judged “as smart” as someone who spent $6,000 to bring a 1300 up to a 1500. My other kid got an 1180. They’ve both had multiple IQ tests and are in the same range. Dream on about the SAT being an IQ test. It is not.

I have two children as well and my 1550 kid is more intelligent than my 1170 kid. Just a fact. They both prepped a little through KHan and took a few paid proctored practice tests. $30 each. I don’t believe standardized tests scores are not linked to intelligence.. not only factor for sure but one. But I sure as hell think it is a better indicator than teacher recommendations at 2,000 student public high school!

+1
Or an essay that’s heavily edited.
SAT/ACT may not be a perfect indicator of intelligence but there is definitely a correlation.

Agree. You're not going to tutor a 1000 SAT score to a 1500+. Maybe 200 -250 pts. tops. The kids who get a 1500+ either started there or started at 1300+ and were tutored.

Amazing how standardized tests and tutoring are almost interlinked. Households that have the financial resources to prep for the SAT do better on the SAT. There's no correlation between SAT scores and intelligence. There is a correlation between test scores and socioeconomic status. Remember when the College Board wanted to implement an "adversity score" to the SAT? How was that received? It basically implied that the SAT had to be "indexed" for factors like the wealth gap, inequality, etc. Do you abolish the SAT? Probably not. But making it optional is reasonable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Strong correlation between test scores and general intelligence. It’s funny how the people who complain incessantly about standardized tests are inevitably low performers.

As long as prep is allowed, this is a dumb statement. According to you, my kid who got a 1500 without any prep at all was judged “as smart” as someone who spent $6,000 to bring a 1300 up to a 1500. My other kid got an 1180. They’ve both had multiple IQ tests and are in the same range. Dream on about the SAT being an IQ test. It is not.

I have two children as well and my 1550 kid is more intelligent than my 1170 kid. Just a fact. They both prepped a little through KHan and took a few paid proctored practice tests. $30 each. I don’t believe standardized tests scores are not linked to intelligence.. not only factor for sure but one. But I sure as hell think it is a better indicator than teacher recommendations at 2,000 student public high school!

+ 1. My DC1 and DC2 are about the same IQ-wise. Both scored similarly in practice SAT tests in 10th grade, in the 98th percentile. DC1 ended up with a 1580 SAT and 3.9+ UW GPA and is at a T10 college. DC2 will likely end up a similar SAT score but a 3.5-3.6 GPA showing a difference in level of effort and conscientiousness. If colleges want to know if a student can cut in with their rigorous programs, they should absolutely look at test scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Test optional saved my kid's mental health this year. We had a very traumatic family experience that led to serious depression and anxiety for my kid during junior year. Despite what she went through, she was able to maintain stellar grades. However, taking the SAT was just too much for her at the time. If she had been in a better state with her mental health I think she would have done quite well based on previous PSAT scores, etc. but I am so thankful we could take that stress off her. So far, she has been accepted into all the schools she applied to with merit aid (focused on matches and a couple of safeties, plus 1-2 reaches). If she has been in a situation where she had to take the test, I think we would be in a very different place. Lots of kids are struggling right now- test-optional is a way to take some of the pressure off when they need it.

You might want to think twice about putting a kid who is so prone to depression and anxiety that they cannot take the SAT into a highly competitive school. Just sayin.

I've seen a theme of comments like this on other threads and the tone is somehow that kids struggling with mental health issues are somehow 'weak.' Our focus, first and foremost, is to continue to support our child's mental health. She is continuing to progress well and will take a gap year to give herself some additional time to focus on that and the experiences she missed out on during the pandemic. In my experience, when people are supported and given the resources they need to get through a tough situation they can really thrive in all sorts of academic environments as long as it is a good fit for the individual.

You also have no idea what our family was experiencing at that time- most kids would not have been in a good place to take the SAT at that time. Thankfully, the schools she applied to are not as biased as you are and saw her for the strong student that she is.

Not biased- realistic. College is an extension of an academic career, not a litmus test for a persons worth or uniqueness. The most rigorous programs should bring in the students who have proven their ability to excel at that level. There are plenty of colleges for kids at the level below, and the level below that and the level below that - and all those kids can turn out just fine. But putting fragile kids who opt out of academic assessments in top academic institutes...why? AO's today love the edge cases because they are trying to make a social justice point. You're so sure your kid won't freak out at the pressure in a highly selective school when they can't take a standardized test at home when they had realistically 2.5 years to fit the SAT in? Whatever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Test optional saved my kid's mental health this year. We had a very traumatic family experience that led to serious depression and anxiety for my kid during junior year. Despite what she went through, she was able to maintain stellar grades. However, taking the SAT was just too much for her at the time. If she had been in a better state with her mental health I think she would have done quite well based on previous PSAT scores, etc. but I am so thankful we could take that stress off her. So far, she has been accepted into all the schools she applied to with merit aid (focused on matches and a couple of safeties, plus 1-2 reaches). If she has been in a situation where she had to take the test, I think we would be in a very different place. Lots of kids are struggling right now- test-optional is a way to take some of the pressure off when they need it.

You might want to think twice about putting a kid who is so prone to depression and anxiety that they cannot take the SAT into a highly competitive school. Just sayin.

I've seen a theme of comments like this on other threads and the tone is somehow that kids struggling with mental health issues are somehow 'weak.' Our focus, first and foremost, is to continue to support our child's mental health. She is continuing to progress well and will take a gap year to give herself some additional time to focus on that and the experiences she missed out on during the pandemic. In my experience, when people are supported and given the resources they need to get through a tough situation they can really thrive in all sorts of academic environments as long as it is a good fit for the individual.

You also have no idea what our family was experiencing at that time- most kids would not have been in a good place to take the SAT at that time. Thankfully, the schools she applied to are not as biased as you are and saw her for the strong student that she is.

Not biased- realistic. College is an extension of an academic career, not a litmus test for a persons worth or uniqueness. The most rigorous programs should bring in the students who have proven their ability to excel at that level. There are plenty of colleges for kids at the level below, and the level below that and the level below that - and all those kids can turn out just fine. But putting fragile kids who opt out of academic assessments in top academic institutes...why? AO's today love the edge cases because they are trying to make a social justice point. You're so sure your kid won't freak out at the pressure in a highly selective school when they can't take a standardized test at home when they had realistically 2.5 years to fit the SAT in? Whatever.

I'm not sure why you think taking the SAT is somehow an essential part of someone's academic career, but we'll have to agree to disagree on that. She did not have 2.5 years- that's ridiculous. NO SATs available during the fall of her junior year due to COVID. Spring and summer- when most kids take it- was not possible for her. So we made a decision to let it go and go TO. If she took the test today as a senior, she would be fine- as I said, she is in a much different place now. I'm also not sure where you got the idea we are looking at high-pressure academic environments- she'll likely go to a top 50 SLAC that is small and supportive. I highly doubt AOs consider a white girl with a strong academic record from a W school a social justice case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Strong correlation between test scores and general intelligence. It’s funny how the people who complain incessantly about standardized tests are inevitably low performers.

As long as prep is allowed, this is a dumb statement. According to you, my kid who got a 1500 without any prep at all was judged “as smart” as someone who spent $6,000 to bring a 1300 up to a 1500. My other kid got an 1180. They’ve both had multiple IQ tests and are in the same range. Dream on about the SAT being an IQ test. It is not.

I have two children as well and my 1550 kid is more intelligent than my 1170 kid. Just a fact. They both prepped a little through KHan and took a few paid proctored practice tests. $30 each. I don’t believe standardized tests scores are not linked to intelligence.. not only factor for sure but one. But I sure as hell think it is a better indicator than teacher recommendations at 2,000 student public high school!

+ 1. My DC1 and DC2 are about the same IQ-wise. Both scored similarly in practice SAT tests in 10th grade, in the 98th percentile. DC1 ended up with a 1580 SAT and 3.9+ UW GPA and is at a T10 college. DC2 will likely end up a similar SAT score but a 3.5-3.6 GPA showing a difference in level of effort and conscientiousness. If colleges want to know if a student can cut in with their rigorous programs, they should absolutely look at test scores.

Clearly they don't or they wouldn't be test optional.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Strong correlation between test scores and general intelligence. It’s funny how the people who complain incessantly about standardized tests are inevitably low performers.

URM who had kids score in 1500 for their SATs (twins . One is going to Stanford and the other to MIT. I think SAT/ACT should be optional.

[Anonymous]

I hope the URMs recognize how they are getting massive preferential treatment - twins getting into both those schools is only possible for URMs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I hope the URMs recognize how they are getting massive preferential treatment - twins getting into both those schools is only possible for URMs.

Could be girls too..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I hope the URMs recognize how they are getting massive preferential treatment - twins getting into both those schools is only possible for URMs.

NP: how are they getting preferential treatment. The OP didn't say that both kids got into Stanford and MIT. Work on your reading comprehension. Are you saying that non-URM kids that scored in the 1500s on the SAT didn't get into MIT or Stanford?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I hope the URMs recognize how they are getting massive preferential treatment - twins getting into both those schools is only possible for URMs.

That's an ignorant statement.