Old VMPI plans & FCPS’s E3 Math Pilot

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rolling Valley is piloting E3 this school year (22-23). I have a 4th grader who was designated at an advanced math student (level III AAP but additionally qualified for advanced math), but now instead of doing the combined 4th and 5th curriculum in a group with a designated teacher (our old model), they receive extensions to the lesson the entire class gets during class "when needed". We have not been told what will happen in 5th grade as far as whether they'll get the 6th grade content and take the 6th grade SOL.

Is the entire class able to master the advanced math they now try to teach?

In my own teaching experience, children of the same age learn at different rates and abilities.

Based on what another PP said, it sounds like they are teaching the entire class grade level content, with advanced math content being offered as extensions as needed. FCPS argues that rigor is raised for all students with E3 but they define rigor as going deeper into grade level content. Others would define rigor based on the content covered. By that latter metric, rigor has not been raised for all. Formerly advanced math kids now have to rely on extensions in a heterogenous class to get content that would otherwise have been covered in their base advanced math class prior to E3. Depending on how often extensions are provided, formerly advanced math kids could have less rigor (as measured by content covered) under E3. It is hard for teachers to differentiate in heterogenous classes; extensions are not as reliable as having a class with peers learning the same advanced material.

Thanks. That is what I thought they were doing.

This seems to be another anti-merit, “equity” initiative, like the one described here:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1113951.page

E3 is tied into FCPS’s goal of increasing diversity in 8th grade Algebra 1. Equity advocates argue that early accelerated math pathways shut out kids who may take time to develop their skills. FCPS is an outlier nationally in beginning its math acceleration early and as a result is facing increasing external pressure to adjust course. E3 appears to be a vehicle for delaying FCPS’s math acceleration to bring it more in line with what equity-focused groups like the E3 Alliance are calling for. FCPS says that its E3 program is focused on promoting depth and complexity. It is telling what they don’t mention – breadth of content coverage and acceleration.

https://www.fcps.edu/node/44416
Goal: “By the end of SY 2022-23 participation of underrepresented groups in Algebra 1 by 8th grade will increase by 4% points”
Action: “Partner with the Advanced Academic Office expand the E3 Network from 10 to 20 schools. … The purpose of E3 is to broaden the access for third and fourth graders to a more rigorous curriculum in elementary mathematics by raising the rigor for all students through an enhanced program of studies that layers more opportunities for depth and complexity through flexible delivery of Advanced Academic extensions.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rolling Valley is piloting E3 this school year (22-23). I have a 4th grader who was designated at an advanced math student (level III AAP but additionally qualified for advanced math), but now instead of doing the combined 4th and 5th curriculum in a group with a designated teacher (our old model), they receive extensions to the lesson the entire class gets during class "when needed". We have not been told what will happen in 5th grade as far as whether they'll get the 6th grade content and take the 6th grade SOL.

Is the entire class able to master the advanced math they now try to teach?

In my own teaching experience, children of the same age learn at different rates and abilities.

Based on what another PP said, it sounds like they are teaching the entire class grade level content, with advanced math content being offered as extensions as needed. FCPS argues that rigor is raised for all students with E3 but they define rigor as going deeper into grade level content. Others would define rigor based on the content covered. By that latter metric, rigor has not been raised for all. Formerly advanced math kids now have to rely on extensions in a heterogenous class to get content that would otherwise have been covered in their base advanced math class prior to E3. Depending on how often extensions are provided, formerly advanced math kids could have less rigor (as measured by content covered) under E3. It is hard for teachers to differentiate in heterogenous classes; extensions are not as reliable as having a class with peers learning the same advanced material.

Thanks. That is what I thought they were doing.

This seems to be another anti-merit, “equity” initiative, like the one described here:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1113951.page

How are extensions anti-merit? Shouldn't the "merit" kids be able to handle them?

[Anonymous]

Looks like the "anti-equity" posters (the nicest way to put it) are getting fired up again on limited info and LOADS of speculations.

Spin, spin, spin!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rolling Valley is piloting E3 this school year (22-23). I have a 4th grader who was designated at an advanced math student (level III AAP but additionally qualified for advanced math), but now instead of doing the combined 4th and 5th curriculum in a group with a designated teacher (our old model), they receive extensions to the lesson the entire class gets during class "when needed". We have not been told what will happen in 5th grade as far as whether they'll get the 6th grade content and take the 6th grade SOL.

Is the entire class able to master the advanced math they now try to teach?

In my own teaching experience, children of the same age learn at different rates and abilities.

Based on what another PP said, it sounds like they are teaching the entire class grade level content, with advanced math content being offered as extensions as needed. FCPS argues that rigor is raised for all students with E3 but they define rigor as going deeper into grade level content. Others would define rigor based on the content covered. By that latter metric, rigor has not been raised for all. Formerly advanced math kids now have to rely on extensions in a heterogenous class to get content that would otherwise have been covered in their base advanced math class prior to E3. Depending on how often extensions are provided, formerly advanced math kids could have less rigor (as measured by content covered) under E3. It is hard for teachers to differentiate in heterogenous classes; extensions are not as reliable as having a class with peers learning the same advanced material.

Thanks. That is what I thought they were doing.

This seems to be another anti-merit, “equity” initiative, like the one described here:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1113951.page

How are extensions anti-merit? Shouldn't the "merit" kids be able to handle them?

Before E3, advanced kids had a dedicated class where their teacher could target class-wide instruction at an advanced level. Now, they are in heterogenous classes where class instruction is targeted at regular content. Their only access to the prior advanced material is if a teacher provides extensions. Differentiating in heterogenous classes is difficult so the provision of extensions will vary by teacher, which raises doubts as to how meaningful these extensions will be. It is the shift from receiving advanced content on a regular, class-wide basis to a sporadic basis that people are focusing on.

[Anonymous]

The following is just my opinion and trying to make sense of this pilot program since there doesnt appear to be much on it...

Based on the known pilot schools posted ITT:
Lane, Union Mill, Va Run, Baileys, Rolling Valley, Herndon, and Lake Anne.

It seems clear they are targeting ES without LLIV. These elementary schools dont have an AAP commitment and chopping down advanced math would be fairly simple.

A lot of these schools roll up to MS without LIV AAP as well like Stone, Liberty, and Irving. So if the schools feeding them arent preparing kids for 7th grade Algebra, there is no need to offer it. As noted, the goal is increased 8th grade Algebra 1. This would appear as an equitable outcome if no one is ahead in 7th grade.

Unfortunately, we just dont know what E3 schools are doing for 5/6... so the middle school stuff is just speculation.

The next wrinkle here is the remaining LLIV schools. If they all move to clustering, maybe the e3 schools will move to LLIV clustering as well. No centers, just LLIV with everyone driving to 8th grade algebra and an AAP curriculum for all other subjects.

Its not the end of the world if kids dont have 7th grade algebra, but it does seem a little antiquated in the time of tech and is clearly aimed at equitable outcomes. Other states are teaching Algebra to gifted students in 6th.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rolling Valley is piloting E3 this school year (22-23). I have a 4th grader who was designated at an advanced math student (level III AAP but additionally qualified for advanced math), but now instead of doing the combined 4th and 5th curriculum in a group with a designated teacher (our old model), they receive extensions to the lesson the entire class gets during class "when needed". We have not been told what will happen in 5th grade as far as whether they'll get the 6th grade content and take the 6th grade SOL.

Is the entire class able to master the advanced math they now try to teach?

In my own teaching experience, children of the same age learn at different rates and abilities.

Based on what another PP said, it sounds like they are teaching the entire class grade level content, with advanced math content being offered as extensions as needed. FCPS argues that rigor is raised for all students with E3 but they define rigor as going deeper into grade level content. Others would define rigor based on the content covered. By that latter metric, rigor has not been raised for all. Formerly advanced math kids now have to rely on extensions in a heterogenous class to get content that would otherwise have been covered in their base advanced math class prior to E3. Depending on how often extensions are provided, formerly advanced math kids could have less rigor (as measured by content covered) under E3. It is hard for teachers to differentiate in heterogenous classes; extensions are not as reliable as having a class with peers learning the same advanced material.

Thanks. That is what I thought they were doing.

This seems to be another anti-merit, “equity” initiative, like the one described here:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1113951.page

How are extensions anti-merit? Shouldn't the "merit" kids be able to handle them?

It's not clear whether these extensions are grade level or advanced content. If the former, kids would lose access to advanced content altogether. FCPS needs to share details on how E3 works as well as its implications for the accelerated math pathway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rolling Valley is piloting E3 this school year (22-23). I have a 4th grader who was designated at an advanced math student (level III AAP but additionally qualified for advanced math), but now instead of doing the combined 4th and 5th curriculum in a group with a designated teacher (our old model), they receive extensions to the lesson the entire class gets during class "when needed". We have not been told what will happen in 5th grade as far as whether they'll get the 6th grade content and take the 6th grade SOL.

Is the entire class able to master the advanced math they now try to teach?

In my own teaching experience, children of the same age learn at different rates and abilities.

Based on what another PP said, it sounds like they are teaching the entire class grade level content, with advanced math content being offered as extensions as needed. FCPS argues that rigor is raised for all students with E3 but they define rigor as going deeper into grade level content. Others would define rigor based on the content covered. By that latter metric, rigor has not been raised for all. Formerly advanced math kids now have to rely on extensions in a heterogenous class to get content that would otherwise have been covered in their base advanced math class prior to E3. Depending on how often extensions are provided, formerly advanced math kids could have less rigor (as measured by content covered) under E3. It is hard for teachers to differentiate in heterogenous classes; extensions are not as reliable as having a class with peers learning the same advanced material.

Thanks. That is what I thought they were doing.

This seems to be another anti-merit, “equity” initiative, like the one described here:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1113951.page

How are extensions anti-merit? Shouldn't the "merit" kids be able to handle them?

It's not clear whether these extensions are grade level or advanced content. If the former, kids would lose access to advanced content altogether. FCPS needs to share details on how E3 works as well as its implications for the accelerated math pathway.

I think the idea of these extensions is to spiral into deeper concepts within a given topic rather than move to the next topic. This keeps everyone together, but advanced minds busy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rolling Valley is piloting E3 this school year (22-23). I have a 4th grader who was designated at an advanced math student (level III AAP but additionally qualified for advanced math), but now instead of doing the combined 4th and 5th curriculum in a group with a designated teacher (our old model), they receive extensions to the lesson the entire class gets during class "when needed". We have not been told what will happen in 5th grade as far as whether they'll get the 6th grade content and take the 6th grade SOL.

Is the entire class able to master the advanced math they now try to teach?

In my own teaching experience, children of the same age learn at different rates and abilities.

Based on what another PP said, it sounds like they are teaching the entire class grade level content, with advanced math content being offered as extensions as needed. FCPS argues that rigor is raised for all students with E3 but they define rigor as going deeper into grade level content. Others would define rigor based on the content covered. By that latter metric, rigor has not been raised for all. Formerly advanced math kids now have to rely on extensions in a heterogenous class to get content that would otherwise have been covered in their base advanced math class prior to E3. Depending on how often extensions are provided, formerly advanced math kids could have less rigor (as measured by content covered) under E3. It is hard for teachers to differentiate in heterogenous classes; extensions are not as reliable as having a class with peers learning the same advanced material.

Thanks. That is what I thought they were doing.

This seems to be another anti-merit, “equity” initiative, like the one described here:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1113951.page

How are extensions anti-merit? Shouldn't the "merit" kids be able to handle them?

It's not clear whether these extensions are grade level or advanced content. If the former, kids would lose access to advanced content altogether. FCPS needs to share details on how E3 works as well as its implications for the accelerated math pathway.

Maybe they are using the pilot to figure that out.

[Anonymous]

As a parent of a 4th grader in the E3 pilot, I am more concerned with my child learning the same math skills generally as the peers he'll be going to middle school with. If E3 continues in 5th and 6th, is the content the same that other 5th and 6th graders in our pyramid are learning? If not, what happens when they all meet up in 7th grade - at any level - 7th General Math, Math 7 Honors, or Algebra as 7th graders. Whatever level they are, as a parent, it's a little nerve-wracking to have your child piloting a new math curriculum. Especially since we've gotten no insight into content differences between E3 and whatever everyone else is doing is called. I guess we'll see how the pilot kids do on the SOL . . .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rolling Valley is piloting E3 this school year (22-23). I have a 4th grader who was designated at an advanced math student (level III AAP but additionally qualified for advanced math), but now instead of doing the combined 4th and 5th curriculum in a group with a designated teacher (our old model), they receive extensions to the lesson the entire class gets during class "when needed". We have not been told what will happen in 5th grade as far as whether they'll get the 6th grade content and take the 6th grade SOL.

Is the entire class able to master the advanced math they now try to teach?

In my own teaching experience, children of the same age learn at different rates and abilities.

Based on what another PP said, it sounds like they are teaching the entire class grade level content, with advanced math content being offered as extensions as needed. FCPS argues that rigor is raised for all students with E3 but they define rigor as going deeper into grade level content. Others would define rigor based on the content covered. By that latter metric, rigor has not been raised for all. Formerly advanced math kids now have to rely on extensions in a heterogenous class to get content that would otherwise have been covered in their base advanced math class prior to E3. Depending on how often extensions are provided, formerly advanced math kids could have less rigor (as measured by content covered) under E3. It is hard for teachers to differentiate in heterogenous classes; extensions are not as reliable as having a class with peers learning the same advanced material.

Thanks. That is what I thought they were doing.

This seems to be another anti-merit, “equity” initiative, like the one described here:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1113951.page

How are extensions anti-merit? Shouldn't the "merit" kids be able to handle them?

It's not clear whether these extensions are grade level or advanced content. If the former, kids would lose access to advanced content altogether. FCPS needs to share details on how E3 works as well as its implications for the accelerated math pathway.

I think the idea of these extensions is to spiral into deeper concepts within a given topic rather than move to the next topic. This keeps everyone together, but advanced minds busy.

Sadly, the likelihood is that they will be busy treading water. Teachers with heterogenous classes don't have much time to devote to working with and extending the kids who get the concept.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a parent of a 4th grader in the E3 pilot, I am more concerned with my child learning the same math skills generally as the peers he'll be going to middle school with. If E3 continues in 5th and 6th, is the content the same that other 5th and 6th graders in our pyramid are learning? If not, what happens when they all meet up in 7th grade - at any level - 7th General Math, Math 7 Honors, or Algebra as 7th graders. Whatever level they are, as a parent, it's a little nerve-wracking to have your child piloting a new math curriculum. Especially since we've gotten no insight into content differences between E3 and whatever everyone else is doing is called. I guess we'll see how the pilot kids do on the SOL . . .

It might mean that your kid will be on track for 7th Honors and not Algebra 1 H in 7th grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a parent of a 4th grader in the E3 pilot, I am more concerned with my child learning the same math skills generally as the peers he'll be going to middle school with. If E3 continues in 5th and 6th, is the content the same that other 5th and 6th graders in our pyramid are learning? If not, what happens when they all meet up in 7th grade - at any level - 7th General Math, Math 7 Honors, or Algebra as 7th graders. Whatever level they are, as a parent, it's a little nerve-wracking to have your child piloting a new math curriculum. Especially since we've gotten no insight into content differences between E3 and whatever everyone else is doing is called. I guess we'll see how the pilot kids do on the SOL . . .

You are one of many parents posting in this thread who cannot get specifics and details on E3 from the FFX school administration.

I tried to get details about E3 last year, when my child was in 6th grade. I left frustrated, without answers.

It is almost as if they are hiding the information from parents, to shut us out of the process to which they are subjecting our children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a parent of a 4th grader in the E3 pilot, I am more concerned with my child learning the same math skills generally as the peers he'll be going to middle school with. If E3 continues in 5th and 6th, is the content the same that other 5th and 6th graders in our pyramid are learning? If not, what happens when they all meet up in 7th grade - at any level - 7th General Math, Math 7 Honors, or Algebra as 7th graders. Whatever level they are, as a parent, it's a little nerve-wracking to have your child piloting a new math curriculum. Especially since we've gotten no insight into content differences between E3 and whatever everyone else is doing is called. I guess we'll see how the pilot kids do on the SOL . . .

You concerns are valid. Thats why these schools were chosen. I suspect that the next 10 schools of the pilot will be part of the existing middle school pyramids, so that there isnt any peer discrepancies. Or not many.

[Anonymous]

Can someone please share a list of the E3 model pilot school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent of a 4th grader in the E3 pilot, I am more concerned with my child learning the same math skills generally as the peers he'll be going to middle school with. If E3 continues in 5th and 6th, is the content the same that other 5th and 6th graders in our pyramid are learning? If not, what happens when they all meet up in 7th grade - at any level - 7th General Math, Math 7 Honors, or Algebra as 7th graders. Whatever level they are, as a parent, it's a little nerve-wracking to have your child piloting a new math curriculum. Especially since we've gotten no insight into content differences between E3 and whatever everyone else is doing is called. I guess we'll see how the pilot kids do on the SOL . . .

You concerns are valid. Thats why these schools were chosen. I suspect that the next 10 schools of the pilot will be part of the existing middle school pyramids, so that there isnt any peer discrepancies. Or not many.

I think Lynbrook ES is another one.