Old VMPI plans & FCPS’s E3 Math Pilot

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Posting this here since it is popping up a bit in the AAP thread but it would impact all types of students…

Some here may that last year VDOE proposed in its VMPI (VA math pathways initiative) to do away with any type of math grouping of kids before 11th grade so that the only potential differentiation for math that would be delivered would be in-class (as in what happens in K-2 now, not what happens in 3-12 now). VDOE then stepped away from that idea after backlash.

Apparently FCPS is piloting this idea now though at the ES level and intends to expand it over the next few years. This is part of their published improvement plan. My youngest is in 5th so I don’t have a direct dog in this fight but thought others with younger kids may want to be aware and on the lookout for when the proposal gets drafted for expanding this program. Link and details below:

https://www.fcps.edu/node/44416

“Partner with the Advanced Academic Office to launch the Engaging, Enhanced, and Extended Mathematics (E3) Network, a group of 10 schools from across the division that will implement E3. The purpose of E3 is to broaden the access for all third and fourth graders to a more rigorous curriculum in elementary mathematics. E3 raises the rigor for all students through an enhanced program of studies that layers more opportunities for depth and complexity through flexible delivery of Advanced Academic extensions.
…
Write and obtain feedback on a five-year strategic plan to implement…the expansion of E3 in elementary schools.

E3 is just a curriculum designed to raise the bar in gen Ed. This says nothing about not being allowed to have advanced math groups.

Allowed, but in practice the classes are eliminated.

Where did they say this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From what I can tell, Lane, Union Mill, Va Run, and Baileys all implemented the E3 pilot. All of these don’t offer Level IV for 5th and 6th according to FCPS.

Anyone else know which schools are piloting e3.

Believe Herndon & Lake Anne are also using it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From what I can tell, Lane, Union Mill, Va Run, and Baileys all implemented the E3 pilot. All of these don’t offer Level IV for 5th and 6th according to FCPS.

Anyone else know which schools are piloting e3.

I know the plan is to expand E3 (the stealth VMPI) to 20 schools next year.

FCPS's E3 ties into the broad thinking behind VMPI -- heterogenous classes and going deeper into material rather than faster. The interesting question is where did the idea for FCPS's E3 come from? There is an E3 Alliance in Texas that often partners with the Dana Center (whose work laid much of VMPI's foundation). The E3 (Education Equals Economics) Alliance advocates for enhanced equity in math pathways. While they argue for 8th grade Algebra 1, they also believe that math acceleration should be delayed until as late as possible in order to be more inclusive. E3 Alliance & Dana Center recommend waiting until 6th grade before beginning math acceleration.
https://e3alliance.org/wp-content/uploads/2006/07/CTX_About_Student_Guide_Jan2023.pdf
"Place every student in top two quintiles in 5th grade math performance, or based on earlier performance and qualitative measures, into an accelerated math pathway by 6th grade with an option to “opt out” (target is 40%)."

The E3 alliance hopes to create a widening circle of groups within its alliance. Is FCPS's E3 part of this E3 alliance? FCPS has not mentioned this publicly but the pieces seem to fit. Interestingly, FCPS calls its E3 Engaging, Enhanced, and Extended. That is probably more appealing to FCPS families than Education Equals Economics.

Based on parents whose kids are in FCPS E3 for 3rd and 4th grade, it seems like the classes are heterogenous, paced like a regular course, with differentiation provided (in theory). Thus, advanced math would not occur until 5th grade or later. That sounds similar to what the E3 Alliance and Dana Center are advocating for. Coincidence? Hard to know.

[Anonymous]

Rolling Valley is piloting E3 this school year (22-23). I have a 4th grader who was designated at an advanced math student (level III AAP but additionally qualified for advanced math), but now instead of doing the combined 4th and 5th curriculum in a group with a designated teacher (our old model), they receive extensions to the lesson the entire class gets during class "when needed". We have not been told what will happen in 5th grade as far as whether they'll get the 6th grade content and take the 6th grade SOL.

[Anonymous]

Oh good. Another conspiracy theory reading from the looney toons crowd.

"It doesn't come out and say it exactly..."

"They won't rule out.."

"No matter what they say, this is the intent..."

"I don't know how to read and I have an agenda so I'm going to interpret and falsely misrepresent..."

Different day, different issue, same result: hysteria on a small corner of the right wing web with no actual proof or impacts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh good. Another conspiracy theory reading from the looney toons crowd.

"It doesn't come out and say it exactly..."

"They won't rule out.."

"No matter what they say, this is the intent..."

"I don't know how to read and I have an agenda so I'm going to interpret and falsely misrepresent..."

Different day, different issue, same result: hysteria on a small corner of the right wing web with no actual proof or impacts.

These are all "left wing" parents or just normal parents who are concerned about their children's education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh good. Another conspiracy theory reading from the looney toons crowd.

"It doesn't come out and say it exactly..."

"They won't rule out.."

"No matter what they say, this is the intent..."

"I don't know how to read and I have an agenda so I'm going to interpret and falsely misrepresent..."

Different day, different issue, same result: hysteria on a small corner of the right wing web with no actual proof or impacts.

FCPS should lay out details of the program and the curriculum that show how E3 is paced. Do they cover the same accelerated content as advanced math in the whole class or is the class paced to regular math with differentiation provided as needed?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh good. Another conspiracy theory reading from the looney toons crowd.

"It doesn't come out and say it exactly..."

"They won't rule out.."

"No matter what they say, this is the intent..."

"I don't know how to read and I have an agenda so I'm going to interpret and falsely misrepresent..."

Different day, different issue, same result: hysteria on a small corner of the right wing web with no actual proof or impacts.

Yeah, I was waiting to hear actual facts/experiences. Just a lot of “concern”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Rolling Valley is piloting E3 this school year (22-23). I have a 4th grader who was designated at an advanced math student (level III AAP but additionally qualified for advanced math), but now instead of doing the combined 4th and 5th curriculum in a group with a designated teacher (our old model), they receive extensions to the lesson the entire class gets during class "when needed". We have not been told what will happen in 5th grade as far as whether they'll get the 6th grade content and take the 6th grade SOL.

What was the pacing before E3? Would advanced math 4th grade have covered 4th grade plus half of 5th grade content and then 5th grade would have covered the other half of 5th grade and 6th grade content?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Rolling Valley is piloting E3 this school year (22-23). I have a 4th grader who was designated at an advanced math student (level III AAP but additionally qualified for advanced math), but now instead of doing the combined 4th and 5th curriculum in a group with a designated teacher (our old model), they receive extensions to the lesson the entire class gets during class "when needed". We have not been told what will happen in 5th grade as far as whether they'll get the 6th grade content and take the 6th grade SOL.

Is the entire class able to master the advanced math they now try to teach?

In my own teaching experience, children of the same age learn at different rates and abilities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rolling Valley is piloting E3 this school year (22-23). I have a 4th grader who was designated at an advanced math student (level III AAP but additionally qualified for advanced math), but now instead of doing the combined 4th and 5th curriculum in a group with a designated teacher (our old model), they receive extensions to the lesson the entire class gets during class "when needed". We have not been told what will happen in 5th grade as far as whether they'll get the 6th grade content and take the 6th grade SOL.

What was the pacing before E3? Would advanced math 4th grade have covered 4th grade plus half of 5th grade content and then 5th grade would have covered the other half of 5th grade and 6th grade content?

The pacing before E3 would have had advanced math kids learning both the 4th and 5th grade math content in 4th grade, but still taking the 4th grade SOL. The accelerated content would put them in place to start the 6th grade curriculum in 5th grade. At our school, this accelerated course was taught by grouping the kids who were identified as ready for it and having one of the teachers teach them. Now those kids get extensions to lessons in the classroom. I’m at a pilot school and we were given no way to compare the curriculums or content. So little math work comes home that I have no idea and I wouldn’t know anyway what is an extension and what is the general lesson.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rolling Valley is piloting E3 this school year (22-23). I have a 4th grader who was designated at an advanced math student (level III AAP but additionally qualified for advanced math), but now instead of doing the combined 4th and 5th curriculum in a group with a designated teacher (our old model), they receive extensions to the lesson the entire class gets during class "when needed". We have not been told what will happen in 5th grade as far as whether they'll get the 6th grade content and take the 6th grade SOL.

Is the entire class able to master the advanced math they now try to teach?

In my own teaching experience, children of the same age learn at different rates and abilities.

Based on what another PP said, it sounds like they are teaching the entire class grade level content, with advanced math content being offered as extensions as needed. FCPS argues that rigor is raised for all students with E3 but they define rigor as going deeper into grade level content. Others would define rigor based on the content covered. By that latter metric, rigor has not been raised for all. Formerly advanced math kids now have to rely on extensions in a heterogenous class to get content that would otherwise have been covered in their base advanced math class prior to E3. Depending on how often extensions are provided, formerly advanced math kids could have less rigor (as measured by content covered) under E3. It is hard for teachers to differentiate in heterogenous classes; extensions are not as reliable as having a class with peers learning the same advanced material.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rolling Valley is piloting E3 this school year (22-23). I have a 4th grader who was designated at an advanced math student (level III AAP but additionally qualified for advanced math), but now instead of doing the combined 4th and 5th curriculum in a group with a designated teacher (our old model), they receive extensions to the lesson the entire class gets during class "when needed". We have not been told what will happen in 5th grade as far as whether they'll get the 6th grade content and take the 6th grade SOL.

Is the entire class able to master the advanced math they now try to teach?

In my own teaching experience, children of the same age learn at different rates and abilities.

Based on what another PP said, it sounds like they are teaching the entire class grade level content, with advanced math content being offered as extensions as needed. FCPS argues that rigor is raised for all students with E3 but they define rigor as going deeper into grade level content. Others would define rigor based on the content covered. By that latter metric, rigor has not been raised for all. Formerly advanced math kids now have to rely on extensions in a heterogenous class to get content that would otherwise have been covered in their base advanced math class prior to E3. Depending on how often extensions are provided, formerly advanced math kids could have less rigor (as measured by content covered) under E3. It is hard for teachers to differentiate in heterogenous classes; extensions are not as reliable as having a class with peers learning the same advanced material.

Thanks. That is what I thought they were doing.

This seems to be another anti-merit, “equity” initiative, like the one described here:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1113951.page

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh good. Another conspiracy theory reading from the looney toons crowd.

"It doesn't come out and say it exactly..."

"They won't rule out.."

"No matter what they say, this is the intent..."

"I don't know how to read and I have an agenda so I'm going to interpret and falsely misrepresent..."

Different day, different issue, same result: hysteria on a small corner of the right wing web with no actual proof or impacts.

A number of people in this thread and in the AAP forum have posted the elimination of certain classes at their school.
There are only a small number of schools right now, so it would be hard to get more than that, as not every parent in FCPS is on this forum everyday.

[Anonymous]

Loudoun reversed its elimination of accelerated math after parental pushback.
Fairfax parents should try to do the same.