Strong GPA at Big 3?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Colleges want to see an upward trajectory. Some don't even count freshman year grades. If you have a 3.8 with B's first semester freshman year it's much different than having them junior year.

Maybe you are thinking about grad school? Which college gives mulligans for freshman year grades? Which college doesn’t take into account increasingly difficult course loads in terms of college readiness?

California schools do not count Freshman grades at all.

California is just out there on its own. The UCs don’t include either freeman or senior year grades and then weight AP courses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Colleges want to see an upward trajectory. Some don't even count freshman year grades. If you have a 3.8 with B's first semester freshman year it's much different than having them junior year.

Maybe you are thinking about grad school? Which college gives mulligans for freshman year grades? Which college doesn’t take into account increasingly difficult course loads in terms of college readiness?

Colleges really don’t look at freshman year grades except to the extent they might be aberrational in either direction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just find this so, so odd. The "Big 3" are supposed to be elite high schools, above the fray socially and academically, among the best in the country, and with outstanding guidance departments and college placement.

Yet, here are parents on an anonymous board fishing for information on where their kids' GPAs place them among their classmates and what colleges they can expect to get into. I have to wonder if this ever goes on at, say, the elite boarding schools or top NYC privates. I'll bet it doesn't, certainly not to this extent, and it makes me wonder -- just how special is the Big 3, really, if the families there act like this?

This all common knowledge and many schools give full Naviance logins junior year onward to families. That’s when manybstart touring if they didn’t already w older siblings or via their sport.

Our private does not. Even kids do not have access to Naviance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting thread from someone who has had DCs in a Big 3 and a top NYC private. If this is the first time you have a DC going through the process, well, it can feel like rocket science for a bit. DCs' school doesn't calculate GPA, doesn't rank, doesn't offer APs, doesn't use Naviance, etc. so it is a little overwhelming in the early phase when trying to figure out what makes sense when your DC begins to construct a list (after your DC has looked at big/small, rural/urban schools, etc). What does a 3.6 mean when you read both here and on CC about 4.5 weighted GPA, etc?

While we never got a full handle on it, we did get enough to feel comfortable with the list and the ED options. We were fortunate that DC had the best college counselor of the bunch and were confident that the guidance/suggestions were as strong as possible in these less predictable admissions times. DC had the good luck of getting into their ED.

Regarding where a DC falls on a class rank, I kinda get when folks here preach that "it doesn't matter," but I can't help but think of my friend with a DC at another NYC private. Her DC really wanted to go a certain Ivy. The parents had both gone to Ivies, but not this one, and they were really not as familiar with how college admissions had tightened (for lack of a better word) over the last 5-10 years (even more so in last 2). Think they believed that their education would be a thumb on scale for DC. The DC really is a top student (though very, very shy) so we were all pretty shocked when DC didn't even get the courtesy of defer (term of art used at our DCs' school), but an outright reject. So come to find out, 12+ other kids had also applied to this Ivy, 3/4s were legacy, and ~1/2 had better stats. When friend has the WTH happened convo with the counselor later that spring after her DC is admitted to another school, the counselor says "well sometimes a school reaches down and takes an unhooked kid...." Friend told her that if they work together again, that she would appreciate a lot more candor. Yes, my friend was naive, but she says that if they had some additional information, they would have worked more with their DC on being realistic about a list. Maybe would've still gone for an ED reach, but would've been able to pivot once DC got the bad news.

A good guidance counselor never has 12 top kids all applying to the same exact top school. They need to spread that around better and horse trade. Like the U.K. counselors do when their students apply to Oxbridge colleges. They spread about the 40+ Small colleges.
You never want to have the kid applying to XYZ department at ABC college, same as your top kid, but they are major donor or URM or doing a sport. Counselor at SFS our years would have told you, apply to a small number, a couple others are here and there, but one of these three will work. And then they go to bat for you there. They can’t for 12+ kids. They will be asked to force rank.

Twelve kids for the TOTAL grade, not twelve for the counselor.

Agree on the never want your DC applying when a top hooked kid is to same school. DC's BF mulled five schools - a number of girls were holding off until she made her decision as she was a stronger student than them. Even one of the legacies held off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a 3.8 Big3 kid and would be thrilled with Vanderbilt.

DC’s BF @ top NYC private with 3.9 GPA, 1560 SAT, and 2 800 SAT Subject tests - rejected @ Vanderbilt.

It’s a really good school. The idea that one would complain of only being accepted there is strange.

What? Your reply doesn't make any sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Colleges want to see an upward trajectory. Some don't even count freshman year grades. If you have a 3.8 with B's first semester freshman year it's much different than having them junior year.

Maybe you are thinking about grad school? Which college gives mulligans for freshman year grades? Which college doesn’t take into account increasingly difficult course loads in terms of college readiness?

Some schools do not even look at frosh grades. DC has a steady upward trajectory, 34 ACT - the strong test score and upward trend probably helped him getting into a T10 SLAC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a 3.8 Big3 kid and would be thrilled with Vanderbilt.

DC’s BF @ top NYC private with 3.9 GPA, 1560 SAT, and 2 800 SAT Subject tests - rejected @ Vanderbilt.

It’s a really good school. The idea that one would complain of only being accepted there is strange.

What? Your reply doesn't make any sense.

No schools look at subject tests anymore. This must have been several years ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a 3.8 Big3 kid and would be thrilled with Vanderbilt.

DC’s BF @ top NYC private with 3.9 GPA, 1560 SAT, and 2 800 SAT Subject tests - rejected @ Vanderbilt.

Vanderbilt - Great school, but this poster sounds like a Vanderbilt booster.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Interesting thread from someone who has had DCs in a Big 3 and a top NYC private. If this is the first time you have a DC going through the process, well, it can feel like rocket science for a bit. DCs' school doesn't calculate GPA, doesn't rank, doesn't offer APs, doesn't use Naviance, etc. so it is a little overwhelming in the early phase when trying to figure out what makes sense when your DC begins to construct a list (after your DC has looked at big/small, rural/urban schools, etc). What does a 3.6 mean when you read both here and on CC about 4.5 weighted GPA, etc?

While we never got a full handle on it, we did get enough to feel comfortable with the list and the ED options. We were fortunate that DC had the best college counselor of the bunch and were confident that the guidance/suggestions were as strong as possible in these less predictable admissions times. DC had the good luck of getting into their ED.

Regarding where a DC falls on a class rank, I kinda get when folks here preach that "it doesn't matter," but I can't help but think of my friend with a DC at another NYC private. Her DC really wanted to go a certain Ivy. The parents had both gone to Ivies, but not this one, and they were really not as familiar with how college admissions had tightened (for lack of a better word) over the last 5-10 years (even more so in last 2). Think they believed that their education would be a thumb on scale for DC. The DC really is a top student (though very, very shy) so we were all pretty shocked when DC didn't even get the courtesy of defer (term of art used at our DCs' school), but an outright reject. So come to find out, 12+ other kids had also applied to this Ivy, 3/4s were legacy, and ~1/2 had better stats. When friend has the WTH happened convo with the counselor later that spring after her DC is admitted to another school, the counselor says "well sometimes a school reaches down and takes an unhooked kid...." Friend told her that if they work together again, that she would appreciate a lot more candor. Yes, my friend was naive, but she says that if they had some additional information, they would have worked more with their DC on being realistic about a list. Maybe would've still gone for an ED reach, but would've been able to pivot once DC got the bad news.

The problem is, the families get "a school" into their heads and believe it will be a great fit etc. A high school counselor is not going to be able to talk someone out of being locked into a school. All they can say is "its a reach" or "a high reach" etc. They aren't going to say there is no chance, because, there is always a chance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a 3.8 Big3 kid and would be thrilled with Vanderbilt.

DC’s BF @ top NYC private with 3.9 GPA, 1560 SAT, and 2 800 SAT Subject tests - rejected @ Vanderbilt.

It’s a really good school. The idea that one would complain of only being accepted there is strange.

What? Your reply doesn't make any sense.

No schools look at subject tests anymore. This must have been several years ago.

No, this year. Students with subject tests were directed to submit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a 3.8 Big3 kid and would be thrilled with Vanderbilt.

DC’s BF @ top NYC private with 3.9 GPA, 1560 SAT, and 2 800 SAT Subject tests - rejected @ Vanderbilt.

Vanderbilt - Great school, but this poster sounds like a Vanderbilt booster.

What??? This is my DC’s BFF - great kid. If anything, I am annoyed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a 3.8 Big3 kid and would be thrilled with Vanderbilt.

DC’s BF @ top NYC private with 3.9 GPA, 1560 SAT, and 2 800 SAT Subject tests - rejected @ Vanderbilt.

Vanderbilt - Great school, but this poster sounds like a Vanderbilt booster.

DP here, but as a Vanderbilt alum, it is an amazing school and Nashville is the best Southern city. Great music and food everywhere (and lots of bad music too, but that’s easy to avoid). Just stay away from tourist traps.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC is a junior at a Big 3 school. Deep into thinking/discussion about college applications this fall. 3.7 GPA, 1530 SAT. Took many (but not all) of the "most rigorous" courses available until junior year. Clearly strong student, but we are genuinely unsure about where this places him in general -- your views, parents of junior/senior students or of students who have already graduated? Unhooked kid, so we realize that college applications, esp at the top end will be very challenging. Since school does not provide information on class rank etc, we are just curious about where a student like the stands in relation to peers on a GPA basis.

My kid is a recent Big 3 grad, and a 3.7 GPA put them at roughly the 75% percentile of the class. (Best estimate.) With a 35 ACT and similar rigor, they were competitive for T20 colleges and T10 SLACs, but not Ivies. With only one exception I can think of, every kid who got into an Ivy from that class was an academic rock star (top 4-5), recruited athlete, URM or have parents wealthy enough to endow a building or the like.

Ding ding. This is the correct answer.
The cutoff for T10 is 3.8 and 1520-30, if you are unhooked. From there, you come up with a narrative framing of your short life as a high school student that is compelling and fits whatever needs a particular school wants to fill. You do not know those needs. That's the fun part. Look at how majors are distributed and ask yourself if school X needs another computer science major, etc. Hint: they have entire romance language depts. pumping out single digit majors each year.
OP's students sounds like a perfect candidate for ED1 at UChicago (an amazing school full of very sharp, mature, unhooked kids from Big 3 type schools).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC is a junior at a Big 3 school. Deep into thinking/discussion about college applications this fall. 3.7 GPA, 1530 SAT. Took many (but not all) of the "most rigorous" courses available until junior year. Clearly strong student, but we are genuinely unsure about where this places him in general -- your views, parents of junior/senior students or of students who have already graduated? Unhooked kid, so we realize that college applications, esp at the top end will be very challenging. Since school does not provide information on class rank etc, we are just curious about where a student like the stands in relation to peers on a GPA basis.

My kid is a recent Big 3 grad, and a 3.7 GPA put them at roughly the 75% percentile of the class. (Best estimate.) With a 35 ACT and similar rigor, they were competitive for T20 colleges and T10 SLACs, but not Ivies. With only one exception I can think of, every kid who got into an Ivy from that class was an academic rock star (top 4-5), recruited athlete, URM or have parents wealthy enough to endow a building or the like.

Ding ding. This is the correct answer.
The cutoff for T10 is 3.8 and 1520-30, if you are unhooked. From there, you come up with a narrative framing of your short life as a high school student that is compelling and fits whatever needs a particular school wants to fill. You do not know those needs. That's the fun part. Look at how majors are distributed and ask yourself if school X needs another computer science major, etc. Hint: they have entire romance language depts. pumping out single digit majors each year.
OP's students sounds like a perfect candidate for ED1 at UChicago (an amazing school full of very sharp, mature, unhooked kids from Big 3 type schools).

Agree. Chicago loves full-pay prep school kids who ED1. Even a 3.6 can be good enough, with a high test score and good recs and essays.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC is a junior at a Big 3 school. Deep into thinking/discussion about college applications this fall. 3.7 GPA, 1530 SAT. Took many (but not all) of the "most rigorous" courses available until junior year. Clearly strong student, but we are genuinely unsure about where this places him in general -- your views, parents of junior/senior students or of students who have already graduated? Unhooked kid, so we realize that college applications, esp at the top end will be very challenging. Since school does not provide information on class rank etc, we are just curious about where a student like the stands in relation to peers on a GPA basis.

My kid is a recent Big 3 grad, and a 3.7 GPA put them at roughly the 75% percentile of the class. (Best estimate.) With a 35 ACT and similar rigor, they were competitive for T20 colleges and T10 SLACs, but not Ivies. With only one exception I can think of, every kid who got into an Ivy from that class was an academic rock star (top 4-5), recruited athlete, URM or have parents wealthy enough to endow a building or the like.

Ding ding. This is the correct answer.
The cutoff for T10 is 3.8 and 1520-30, if you are unhooked. From there, you come up with a narrative framing of your short life as a high school student that is compelling and fits whatever needs a particular school wants to fill. You do not know those needs. That's the fun part. Look at how majors are distributed and ask yourself if school X needs another computer science major, etc. Hint: they have entire romance language depts. pumping out single digit majors each year.
OP's students sounds like a perfect candidate for ED1 at UChicago (an amazing school full of very sharp, mature, unhooked kids from Big 3 type schools).

Agree. Chicago loves full-pay prep school kids who ED1. Even a 3.6 can be good enough, with a high test score and good recs and essays.

This year may be an exception - know a full-pay student with a 4.0 u/w GPA (school doesn't offer APs), NMSF, 1600 SAT, and probably 800 on 3 SAT Subject tests (my DC assumes they were 800) and student was rejected ED. DC can't believe it happen to this kid - "X is brilliant - loves learning, loves ideas - the kid should be at MIT." And the kid is really nice - can't imagine a bad rec from any teacher who has had this kid.