Strong GPA at Big 3?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC is a junior at a Big 3 school. Deep into thinking/discussion about college applications this fall. 3.7 GPA, 1530 SAT. Took many (but not all) of the "most rigorous" courses available until junior year. Clearly strong student, but we are genuinely unsure about where this places him in general -- your views, parents of junior/senior students or of students who have already graduated? Unhooked kid, so we realize that college applications, esp at the top end will be very challenging. Since school does not provide information on class rank etc, we are just curious about where a student like the stands in relation to peers on a GPA basis.

My kid is a recent Big 3 grad, and a 3.7 GPA put them at roughly the 75% percentile of the class. (Best estimate.) With a 35 ACT and similar rigor, they were competitive for T20 colleges and T10 SLACs, but not Ivies. With only one exception I can think of, every kid who got into an Ivy from that class was an academic rock star (top 4-5), recruited athlete, URM or have parents wealthy enough to endow a building or the like.

I'm curious how you know the academic, recruiting, minority and financial status of every kid in your kid's class who got into an Ivy.

The Cathedral schools only have 75 or so kids per grade. Many have been in the same class since Beauvoir. By 12th grade, your kid definitely knows who are the academic superstars, recruited athletes, URM and the Uber wealthy. Legacy status is not always apparent though. Many of these categories overlap.

Agree here, especially when a grad class runs from 75-150. If you have been around these families for 12, 9, 7 years, your kids will know a lot and you probably will too if you are involved in school/friendly with other parents. Also, if your DC is in the top academic classes, you pretty much hear the same names over and over, especially from MS onwards. I know DC is not one of the top four students based on GPA, but easily from 5-10 because of how much DC speculates based on their grades and others.

In re legacy/other hooks, DC's college counselor did once say to us that he knows when that is at play because a kid will get admitted somewhere and the student profile doesn't align with the other students (if any) being admitted in the class. While some parents will divulge when they are trying to make it happen, he usually finds out later one way or another.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Agree here, especially when a grad class runs from 75-150. If you have been around these families for 12, 9, 7 years, your kids will know a lot and you probably will too if you are involved in school/friendly with other parents. Also, if your DC is in the top academic classes, you pretty much hear the same names over and over, especially from MS onwards. I know DC is not one of the top four students based on GPA, but easily from 5-10 because of how much DC speculates based on their grades and others.

In re legacy/other hooks, DC's college counselor did once say to us that he knows when that is at play because a kid will get admitted somewhere and the student profile doesn't align with the other students (if any) being admitted in the class. While some parents will divulge when they are trying to make it happen, he usually finds out later one way or another.

Did you figure your DCs relative standing out by senior year or did you have a good sense earlier as well? I suppose if your DC has a 3.9ish GPA, it is pretty obvious that there could not be too many students with higher numbers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DC is a junior at a Big 3 school. Deep into thinking/discussion about college applications this fall. 3.7 GPA, 1530 SAT. Took many (but not all) of the "most rigorous" courses available until junior year. Clearly strong student, but we are genuinely unsure about where this places him in general -- your views, parents of junior/senior students or of students who have already graduated? Unhooked kid, so we realize that college applications, esp at the top end will be very challenging. Since school does not provide information on class rank etc, we are just curious about where a student like the stands in relation to peers on a GPA basis.

I’m at imf w lots of peers kids at these schools (tuition perks), and your kid will do well if Top 20 in the class. I’d rec going for it, not holding back applying to any top schools and programs he may be interested in. Don’t sell yourself short.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just find this so, so odd. The "Big 3" are supposed to be elite high schools, above the fray socially and academically, among the best in the country, and with outstanding guidance departments and college placement.

Yet, here are parents on an anonymous board fishing for information on where their kids' GPAs place them among their classmates and what colleges they can expect to get into. I have to wonder if this ever goes on at, say, the elite boarding schools or top NYC privates. I'll bet it doesn't, certainly not to this extent, and it makes me wonder -- just how special is the Big 3, really, if the families there act like this?

This all common knowledge and many schools give full Naviance logins junior year onward to families. That’s when manybstart touring if they didn’t already w older siblings or via their sport.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just find this so, so odd. The "Big 3" are supposed to be elite high schools, above the fray socially and academically, among the best in the country, and with outstanding guidance departments and college placement.

Yet, here are parents on an anonymous board fishing for information on where their kids' GPAs place them among their classmates and what colleges they can expect to get into. I have to wonder if this ever goes on at, say, the elite boarding schools or top NYC privates. I'll bet it doesn't, certainly not to this extent, and it makes me wonder -- just how special is the Big 3, really, if the families there act like this?

NP here. It is because for many families/kids - there is not open discussion about where kids stand and it's hard to understand the landscape in early steps of the process before parent meeting with college counseling. It's also not clear that college counselors will tell you where your child stands or whether their ED choice has much competition from others at the school.

OP my child has GPA a bit higher, SAT lower so far, hardest classes, and like you, I'm completely in the dark.

Your kid has barely finished half of their junior year. There is plenty of time to worry about this. The college process does not need to be lengthened any further. If you don’t have the answers you want after your initial meetings with your college counselor then I’d suggest asking them.

Lol. You must have quite the hook if that is truly your mentality. I don’t know any country’s uni system where no one does anything until the last 6 months of school. Many Israel but even applying to IDF groups requires some thought.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just find this so, so odd. The "Big 3" are supposed to be elite high schools, above the fray socially and academically, among the best in the country, and with outstanding guidance departments and college placement.

Yet, here are parents on an anonymous board fishing for information on where their kids' GPAs place them among their classmates and what colleges they can expect to get into. I have to wonder if this ever goes on at, say, the elite boarding schools or top NYC privates. I'll bet it doesn't, certainly not to this extent, and it makes me wonder -- just how special is the Big 3, really, if the families there act like this?

OP. Thanks PPs. very useful information/feedback.

To this specific post, let me say that confusion regarding one's DC's prospects arises for a few reasons (in combination): 1. Communication from school tends to be much more cautious/opaque than might be imagined. 2. The apparent randomness of outcomes is such that guidance counsellors cannot predict the upside, in particular, with confidence. 3. Schools almost never talk about relative standing except in the vaguest of terms. 4. There are clearly factors other than GPA/SAT that matter for outcomes and it is very hard to infer much by looking at outcomes for older students who have graduated.

All this is to say that I agree with the surprise/frustration expressed by the post. It is quite hard to raise any of these/related issues with the school.

Not sure how much this is a Big 3 problem as I don't know how this works at other schools in the area/elsewhere.

The confusion is generated from your private school trying to set expectations low because there’s only so much they can or will do. You should really have your own views on schools and programs and fit. Often certain schools mainly have “relationships” with the same certain schools, often small pricey slacs, so push those.

[Anonymous]

I did not read all of this thread. but I will respond because my kid was similar. Graduated 2020 GDS with similar stats. Had a pretty blah resume w/r/t sports and ECs (compared to what "star kids" can have). Just an ordinary UMC smart kid, played an instrument, won an award in middle school. No hooks

did ED1 and ED2 and rejected from both (Pomona and Swarthmore)

Got accepted with merit at Macalester. Is now a sophomore at Vanderbilt. Got zero other acceptances.

[Anonymous]

oh, (PP here) and college counselor was not very helpful except for coming up with Macalester.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Interesting thread from someone who has had DCs in a Big 3 and a top NYC private. If this is the first time you have a DC going through the process, well, it can feel like rocket science for a bit. DCs' school doesn't calculate GPA, doesn't rank, doesn't offer APs, doesn't use Naviance, etc. so it is a little overwhelming in the early phase when trying to figure out what makes sense when your DC begins to construct a list (after your DC has looked at big/small, rural/urban schools, etc). What does a 3.6 mean when you read both here and on CC about 4.5 weighted GPA, etc?

While we never got a full handle on it, we did get enough to feel comfortable with the list and the ED options. We were fortunate that DC had the best college counselor of the bunch and were confident that the guidance/suggestions were as strong as possible in these less predictable admissions times. DC had the good luck of getting into their ED.

Regarding where a DC falls on a class rank, I kinda get when folks here preach that "it doesn't matter," but I can't help but think of my friend with a DC at another NYC private. Her DC really wanted to go a certain Ivy. The parents had both gone to Ivies, but not this one, and they were really not as familiar with how college admissions had tightened (for lack of a better word) over the last 5-10 years (even more so in last 2). Think they believed that their education would be a thumb on scale for DC. The DC really is a top student (though very, very shy) so we were all pretty shocked when DC didn't even get the courtesy of defer (term of art used at our DCs' school), but an outright reject. So come to find out, 12+ other kids had also applied to this Ivy, 3/4s were legacy, and ~1/2 had better stats. When friend has the WTH happened convo with the counselor later that spring after her DC is admitted to another school, the counselor says "well sometimes a school reaches down and takes an unhooked kid...." Friend told her that if they work together again, that she would appreciate a lot more candor. Yes, my friend was naive, but she says that if they had some additional information, they would have worked more with their DC on being realistic about a list. Maybe would've still gone for an ED reach, but would've been able to pivot once DC got the bad news.

A good guidance counselor never has 12 top kids all applying to the same exact top school. They need to spread that around better and horse trade. Like the U.K. counselors do when their students apply to Oxbridge colleges. They spread about the 40+ Small colleges.
You never want to have the kid applying to XYZ department at ABC college, same as your top kid, but they are major donor or URM or doing a sport. Counselor at SFS our years would have told you, apply to a small number, a couple others are here and there, but one of these three will work. And then they go to bat for you there. They can’t for 12+ kids. They will be asked to force rank.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I did not read all of this thread. but I will respond because my kid was similar. Graduated 2020 GDS with similar stats. Had a pretty blah resume w/r/t sports and ECs (compared to what "star kids" can have). Just an ordinary UMC smart kid, played an instrument, won an award in middle school. No hooks

did ED1 and ED2 and rejected from both (Pomona and Swarthmore)

Got accepted with merit at Macalester. Is now a sophomore at Vanderbilt. Got zero other acceptances.

Always ask how many (# and %) of grads transfer after freshman year of college. It’s quite a dirty little (big) secret at a couple Big 3s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just find this so, so odd. The "Big 3" are supposed to be elite high schools, above the fray socially and academically, among the best in the country, and with outstanding guidance departments and college placement.

Yet, here are parents on an anonymous board fishing for information on where their kids' GPAs place them among their classmates and what colleges they can expect to get into. I have to wonder if this ever goes on at, say, the elite boarding schools or top NYC privates. I'll bet it doesn't, certainly not to this extent, and it makes me wonder -- just how special is the Big 3, really, if the families there act like this?

I don’t think wanting to put a grades in context is crazy parent behavior. I don’t want to steer my kid toward a goal he has no chance of reaching; and I don’t want to steer them away from a goal because I mistakenly thought a 3.8 gpa (or whatever) was too low.

look at the common data sets of schools your kid is interested in, and see the GPA and standardized test scores at the 25% and 75% percentaile and that will tell you what you need to know.

The whole point of this thread is that the gpa at these schools isn’t comparable to the larger data set.

Not true. The colleges will evaluate them on their own merits, but it give a sense of the facts. You cannot just assume that if you kid is a 3.5 at STA that they would be a 4.3 at MCPS.

Actually, yes you can

[Anonymous]

Do you mean transferred from Macalaster to Vanderbilt?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I did not read all of this thread. but I will respond because my kid was similar. Graduated 2020 GDS with similar stats. Had a pretty blah resume w/r/t sports and ECs (compared to what "star kids" can have). Just an ordinary UMC smart kid, played an instrument, won an award in middle school. No hooks

did ED1 and ED2 and rejected from both (Pomona and Swarthmore)

Got accepted with merit at Macalester. Is now a sophomore at Vanderbilt. Got zero other acceptances.

Always ask how many (# and %) of grads transfer after freshman year of college. It’s quite a dirty little (big) secret at a couple Big 3s.

I did not mean to imply that DC transferred. Has been at Vandy since day 1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I did not read all of this thread. but I will respond because my kid was similar. Graduated 2020 GDS with similar stats. Had a pretty blah resume w/r/t sports and ECs (compared to what "star kids" can have). Just an ordinary UMC smart kid, played an instrument, won an award in middle school. No hooks

did ED1 and ED2 and rejected from both (Pomona and Swarthmore)

Got accepted with merit at Macalester. Is now a sophomore at Vanderbilt. Got zero other acceptances.

Always ask how many (# and %) of grads transfer after freshman year of college. It’s quite a dirty little (big) secret at a couple Big 3s.

I did not mean to imply that DC transferred. Has been at Vandy since day 1

Do you think Vandy was a good outcome or a bad one? It’s a Top-14 school. I’d feel pretty good about that outcome.

[Anonymous]

I have a 3.8 Big3 kid and would be thrilled with Vanderbilt.