Friend just announced her junior DD has committed to play lax at a top school

[Anonymous]

For those who are "pissed off" at this, why do you care? If you don't agree with the values of those colleges, you can apply to others. There are many choices. The private colleges, in particular, can pick whomever they damn well please. And you can choose not to patronize them with your funds.

It's hilarious that anyone on this thread thinks their family is not privileged in some way that is "unfair". But for some reason, your advantages are A-OK!

Personally, I dislike sports, but I don't think it's bad for colleges to want robust programs in all kinds of things. And I can understand and appreciate the sacrifices and achievements of athletes and their families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. First, I’m happy for them. The girl is very nice and her mom is an old friend.
Second, I don’t think it’s a scholarship, they definitely don’t need the money. I’m just annoyed that her DD is a year behind mine and won’t have to go through most of the college crap and stress mine is currently going through. We are deep in it right now. My DD doesn’t play sports but has other talents, none which get her recruited by colleges.
Third, she has worked hard as an athlete but she wouldn’t be in a position to be recruited if her parents didn’t have the time and money to pay for all teams and tournaments. Let’s face it, for many (I realize there are big exceptions) recruited athletes for sports like lax come from affluent families so the whole system leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
I know this is nothing new. I went to HS with many children of billionaires, most of whom ended up at ivies despite not having the grades. Life is not fair, college admissions is not fair.
I was just venting because, again, I have a very stressed out out senior.

What a pathetic post. You're "happy for them?" The "mom is an old friend?" You sure don't act like it.

And you and your daughter really need to toughen up. We had four kids apply to college and, yea, it wasn't fun but it was far from the stressful hell that you describe. Count yourself lucky if applying to college is one of the more stressful things you encounter in life.

100% this. Even if this friend wasn’t in your life your DD’s situation would be exactly the same. And honestly, application season isn’t the biggest deal in the whole world. You’re either doing one ED or a handful of EA. Quit stressing your kid out.

[Anonymous]

I'm pretty sure it's been said but, OP, I have junior DD in the middle of the recruitment process and it is very stressful and incredibly time consuming. So she is having a much more stressful junior year than your DD did. So don't you worry, it all balances out. Hopefully she'll have a commitment by the end of November and then you know what? She has to make sure her grades stay up, get her SAT score higher to meet their requirement, and keep playing her sport year-round, while she also plays three different sports in HS, and leads an EC club. She wants to play in college very much, but there is a high price to be paid for it. Her grades have to be just as good as your DD's and she has to be one of the best at her sport? So do you really think her road is easier? Trust me, it's not. You're jealous, and you should be, not because athletes get it easier, but because they excel.

[Anonymous]

I would say that in addition to all posted above, sports scholarship and/or admittance has often been an opportunity for or path to higher education for students from disenfranchised groups who may not have had access otherwise. I've always thought that it was a great that the US offers this type of opportunity as it is greatly lacking in other countries (e.g., I've lived in Latin America where college sports are not a thing so those pathways are nonexistent).

While there is a serious conversation to be had about athletes sports-study balance and pay and how higher ed must improve that, an athlete can still walk away with a degree where s/he may not have been afforded the opportunity but for sports.

I think sometimes the privileged class forgets this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Recruiting for girls lacrosse, like pretty much every sport other than football, basketball requires a mountain of stress and effort on the part of kids and parents. Way more than filling out forms and writing essays.

My kid’s experience would be pretty typical. She played soccer in college for 4 years. Starting as a freshman in high school you begin looking generally at types of schools - big, medium, small, urban, rural, and areas of the country. You need to do some college tours - open to prospective students - so your kid can begin to get a feeling as to what different types of schools can present. They need to generally start thinking about where their interests lie for a major. The kids are freshmen in high school and they are looking at colleges and thinking about potential areas of a major. They don’t want to do it, but decision timing requires them to start the process.

Sophomore year you continue learning about schools and your own academic interests. Grade pressure is intense as you need to keep options open. Schools can be helpful in finding non-athletic money but you have to meet the baseline requirements. Sport wise you need to be doing showcase events to get in front of college coaches from schools you are interested attending. You are emailing and texting coaches about where you are playing. You also need to be going to some college games for schools that you are interested in attending. This shows real interest.

Summer before Junior year and Junior year - intense time. My kid did 12 college on campus visits. Set those up. Work on how you talk to coaches you have never met. What are good questions to ask? What are good answers to common questions? What small talk do you have - you will be with coaches for 4-5 hours, and often then with a few older players who you also need to impress. These can be overnight visits. My kid over did the visits, but they were interesting and ultimately helpful. After 4 or 5 she got pretty good at the process.

It is a very stressful process for kids and parents. You need to find a program where your kid fits in competitively, at a school where your kid can do well academically while also playing a sport. That is a difficult combination to find. Way more than 50 percent of kids coming in as athletes will drop off the teams before their Junior year.

Then - offer time and negotiation and working with financial aid and admission folks. You hopefully have more than 1 offer but there is lots of pressure to accept quickly (though offers have to stay open). Coaches want to move on if you are not coming and that will again free up the athletic money that was part of the offer.

So - chances are very good that the kid and the family have been stressing out like crazy for the last 12-24 months.

As others have said, though, it was their choice to take that path. So that is the stress they chose.

And so then you choose stress at application time Junior/Senior year with no "hook". Good for you.

But I played college ball and I think the stress from freshman year thing is a joke. Only toxic parents live this way. I played elite club ball and was recruited at tournaments when it finally dawned on me "oh, I guess I could play in college if I wanted to since I'm being contacted." No stress, just fun. And I am tougher than any of you suckers precisely because I played in college.

College sports are very different now than a generation ago, out of season training is much more significant.

[Anonymous]

While we're talking about fairness... some kids will not have the ability to perform academically at an elite level no matter how hard they try.

Do they deserve weaker educations? Lower paying jobs? When it's beyond their control?

I don't know what we're even talking about here.

[Anonymous]

I find it annoying because the kids I know well from upper NW/close-in MD who are being recruited have parents who poured an absolute TON of money into their kids.
Their kid had baseline athletic ability (as do countless kids at age 5 or 8) and then their parents paid for private coaches for YEARS and YEARS. Flew them all over the Eastern seaboard for tournaments. Weekend after weekend for years. Three of the kids I'm thinking of have dads (and moms) who never worked or have worked very, very part time (they live off family money).
The dad's sole occupation for 17 years has been to develop their kid's talent.
If you live in NW DC or Chevy Chase, etc and have a kid on high-level travel teams, I'm sure you've run into this situation. I've seen it at least a half dozen times.

I know that this type of situation isn't the case with high school athletes in much of America (or maybe it is?) but here in NW DC, it's the kids who paid ENORMOUS amounts of money to play that are being recruited. And often with parents who can afford to not work or to only work very part-time. Not all recruits from this area are in this position (for sure!) but I have seen it happen many times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I find it annoying because the kids I know well from upper NW/close-in MD who are being recruited have parents who poured an absolute TON of money into their kids.
Their kid had baseline athletic ability (as do countless kids at age 5 or 8) and then their parents paid for private coaches for YEARS and YEARS. Flew them all over the Eastern seaboard for tournaments. Weekend after weekend for years. Three of the kids I'm thinking of have dads (and moms) who never worked or have worked very, very part time (they live off family money).
The dad's sole occupation for 17 years has been to develop their kid's talent.
If you live in NW DC or Chevy Chase, etc and have a kid on high-level travel teams, I'm sure you've run into this situation. I've seen it at least a half dozen times.

I know that this type of situation isn't the case with high school athletes in much of America (or maybe it is?) but here in NW DC, it's the kids who paid ENORMOUS amounts of money to play that are being recruited. And often with parents who can afford to not work or to only work very part-time. Not all recruits from this area are in this position (for sure!) but I have seen it happen many times.

Sure. And there are many, many more kids in upper NW DC and MD (and VA) whose parents paid a fortune in tutors, enrichment courses, trips to "volunteer," and much more to improve their kids' grades and beef up the college "resume." Not to mention having the means to live in affluent, low-crime areas, feed their kids nutritious meals, make sure they get enough sleep, let their kids concentrate on school rather than get a part-time job, etc. All of those are significant advantages over many (most) kids in this country. Are you whining about them, too? Probably not, because [gasp] I've just described you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. First, I’m happy for them. The girl is very nice and her mom is an old friend.
Second, I don’t think it’s a scholarship, they definitely don’t need the money. I’m just annoyed that her DD is a year behind mine and won’t have to go through most of the college crap and stress mine is currently going through. We are deep in it right now. My DD doesn’t play sports but has other talents, none which get her recruited by colleges.
Third, she has worked hard as an athlete but she wouldn’t be in a position to be recruited if her parents didn’t have the time and money to pay for all teams and tournaments. Let’s face it, for many (I realize there are big exceptions) recruited athletes for sports like lax come from affluent families so the whole system leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
I know this is nothing new. I went to HS with many children of billionaires, most of whom ended up at ivies despite not having the grades. Life is not fair, college admissions is not fair.
I was just venting because, again, I have a very stressed out out senior.

From my point of view, it's one thing to be jealous (which is how your post came across) and envious.

[Anonymous]

OP is allowed to vent, and I think it's human nature to be envious of families who appear to have an easy time getting the possibly out-of-reach thing you want for your kid. It's not admirable, but college admissions in affluent, striver communities can seem very high stakes and bring out the worst in people. If venting here helps OP act like a better person in real life, I'm not going to judge.

I'll add my family's data point to the discussion. When my DD was a rising senior and DS a rising sophomore, we visited DD's dream school so she could decide if she really wanted to gamble on playing her early admission card there. DS was already nationally recognized in his sport, and we had reached out to the coach to see if he wanted to meet up (this was allowable under NCAA rules at the time). He ended up taking us on a tour of the campus in a golf cart--it was really a fantastic experience. We had chatted about DD's college plans, stats, etc. on the tour, and the coach told her that he thought it was unfair in many ways that she, despite having a perfect SAT score, perfect grades, perfectly fine, but not standout, ECs, had almost no chance of getting admitted while he'd almost certainly be able to arrange to have her brother admitted if he stayed at the same level in his sport, kept up with his grades, and did reasonably well on the SAT or ACT. He also repeated the common coach saying that D1 athletes have time only to focus on two of the three main things you can do in college (the sport, academics, social life/partying), and that if you play for him, the sport will be one of those two.

We counseled her not to waste her early card, but she applied to the dream school and was rejected, as were all of her other brilliant, unhooked friends who took the same risk. She ended up at a fantastic school, as do all the high stats, hard working kids, in my experience. Everything about her college experience was wonderful. She had plenty of time for hanging out with friends, day trips, club sports and other fun campus activities including occasional partying, and her academic work.

Our DS ended up at the dream school. When he was accepted, after an extremely simple process that people could quite reasonably envy, she was excited for him, but worried too, given that her friends who were playing in college had found it to be more miserable than not. I'll be curious to hear how he ultimately views in when his playing days are done, but so far, "more miserable than not" sounds about right. All the kids at these kind of schools are used to putting in massive amounts of time into their sports, but balancing it with very high level college academics is not easy. He has almost no time for anything other than the sport and school, and training for the sport is virtually year round. We see him over winter break and for a little more than a month in the summer. At least in his case, the trainings and environment are structured just like a professional sport (we know a few pros) only with fewer breaks. The pressure to perform well and compete for playing time is absolutely relentless, especially for athletes with pro-level ambitions and abilities. I think it's common for the athletes to have far too much of their self-image connected to their performance, and DS and many of his friends get very down after a bad game. It can be hard to find the resilience to keep going during a rough patch, especially if you are on the outs with your coach, and coaches have an unhealthy amount of control over the athletes' lives in very many cases. All of these stressors are worse for the kids from low-income families who are hoping the sport and/or a good degree will make a difference for their entire families. DIII sports are much better in this regard IME, but sports there are still a big time-commitment.

There are many positives too, which are more a subject for a thread in the sports forums, but I think most of the anti-athlete posters have no clue how hard the athletes are working. Also wanted to point out that my kid did not "take a spot" that should have gone to an academically talented non-athlete. He's there because he had something the college valued in addition to the threshold level of grades and scores they have decided demonstrate the capability to succeed academically. And he has exceled academically, as have almost all of his teammates, several of whom have done so while majoring in CS, physics, or various engineering disciplines. All of the bitter folks should focus on their kids' successes and not spend time putting down other kids and their contributions. Bright kids with good family support will do well in college and in life, and it's ridiculous to think any one college or university is so exceptional that it's going to make or break a kid's chances to succeed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And my senior DD is in the midst of application hell and stress. Athletic recruitment really pisses me off. That’s all.

Just athletic or anything else? What if your friend's kid played the violin and was getting a recruited? Or a math genius? Why are you caring about other people's kids?

I agree you have to let things go but violinists and math geniuses don't get recruited. Please.

I take PP's response to OP to be more along the lines of....what are all the reasons she'll be jealous of other kid's outcomes for reasons "x, y, z" when early decision and regular admissions come out.

OP - in a process like this, it's really unhealthy to compare. Just do your best and make choices based on your options. Don't worry about other people. (Hopefully you kept this thought to yourself and didn't tell DD - and that if DD is also verbalizing these sentiments you used it as a teachable moment).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Recruiting for girls lacrosse, like pretty much every sport other than football, basketball requires a mountain of stress and effort on the part of kids and parents. Way more than filling out forms and writing essays.

My kid’s experience would be pretty typical. She played soccer in college for 4 years. Starting as a freshman in high school you begin looking generally at types of schools - big, medium, small, urban, rural, and areas of the country. You need to do some college tours - open to prospective students - so your kid can begin to get a feeling as to what different types of schools can present. They need to generally start thinking about where their interests lie for a major. The kids are freshmen in high school and they are looking at colleges and thinking about potential areas of a major. They don’t want to do it, but decision timing requires them to start the process.

Sophomore year you continue learning about schools and your own academic interests. Grade pressure is intense as you need to keep options open. Schools can be helpful in finding non-athletic money but you have to meet the baseline requirements. Sport wise you need to be doing showcase events to get in front of college coaches from schools you are interested attending. You are emailing and texting coaches about where you are playing. You also need to be going to some college games for schools that you are interested in attending. This shows real interest.

Summer before Junior year and Junior year - intense time. My kid did 12 college on campus visits. Set those up. Work on how you talk to coaches you have never met. What are good questions to ask? What are good answers to common questions? What small talk do you have - you will be with coaches for 4-5 hours, and often then with a few older players who you also need to impress. These can be overnight visits. My kid over did the visits, but they were interesting and ultimately helpful. After 4 or 5 she got pretty good at the process.

It is a very stressful process for kids and parents. You need to find a program where your kid fits in competitively, at a school where your kid can do well academically while also playing a sport. That is a difficult combination to find. Way more than 50 percent of kids coming in as athletes will drop off the teams before their Junior year.

Then - offer time and negotiation and working with financial aid and admission folks. You hopefully have more than 1 offer but there is lots of pressure to accept quickly (though offers have to stay open). Coaches want to move on if you are not coming and that will again free up the athletic money that was part of the offer.

So - chances are very good that the kid and the family have been stressing out like crazy for the last 12-24 months.

As others have said, though, it was their choice to take that path. So that is the stress they chose.

And OP's daughter is choosing her own stress too - I am certain there are no stress college options that she could apply to, be accepted, and move on. If she is having stress, it means she's reaching for highly competitive schools. That's a choice. (and since she mentioned $, it also requires $ so...people in glass houses....)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it annoying because the kids I know well from upper NW/close-in MD who are being recruited have parents who poured an absolute TON of money into their kids.
Their kid had baseline athletic ability (as do countless kids at age 5 or 8) and then their parents paid for private coaches for YEARS and YEARS. Flew them all over the Eastern seaboard for tournaments. Weekend after weekend for years. Three of the kids I'm thinking of have dads (and moms) who never worked or have worked very, very part time (they live off family money).
The dad's sole occupation for 17 years has been to develop their kid's talent.
If you live in NW DC or Chevy Chase, etc and have a kid on high-level travel teams, I'm sure you've run into this situation. I've seen it at least a half dozen times.

I know that this type of situation isn't the case with high school athletes in much of America (or maybe it is?) but here in NW DC, it's the kids who paid ENORMOUS amounts of money to play that are being recruited. And often with parents who can afford to not work or to only work very part-time. Not all recruits from this area are in this position (for sure!) but I have seen it happen many times.

Sure. And there are many, many more kids in upper NW DC and MD (and VA) whose parents paid a fortune in tutors, enrichment courses, trips to "volunteer," and much more to improve their kids' grades and beef up the college "resume." Not to mention having the means to live in affluent, low-crime areas, feed their kids nutritious meals, make sure they get enough sleep, let their kids concentrate on school rather than get a part-time job, etc. All of those are significant advantages over many (most) kids in this country. Are you whining about them, too? Probably not, because [gasp] I've just described you.

Agree with all of this, but also wanted to point out that this poster seems to believe that any kid with average athletic ability can end up as a recruited athlete if their parents arrange for years of expensive training. That's not at all true, at least if we are talking about athletic recruitment to any school that is going to make an insecure DCUM parent froth at the mouth with envy. Kids heading to ivies and top NESCACs for sports are all above average athletes at a minimum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. First, I’m happy for them. The girl is very nice and her mom is an old friend.
Second, I don’t think it’s a scholarship, they definitely don’t need the money. I’m just annoyed that her DD is a year behind mine and won’t have to go through most of the college crap and stress mine is currently going through. We are deep in it right now. My DD doesn’t play sports but has other talents, none which get her recruited by colleges.
Third, she has worked hard as an athlete but she wouldn’t be in a position to be recruited if her parents didn’t have the time and money to pay for all teams and tournaments. Let’s face it, for many (I realize there are big exceptions) recruited athletes for sports like lax come from affluent families so the whole system leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
I know this is nothing new. I went to HS with many children of billionaires, most of whom ended up at ivies despite not having the grades. Life is not fair, college admissions is not fair.
I was just venting because, again, I have a very stressed out out senior.

From my point of view, it's one thing to be jealous (which is how your post came across) and envious.

versus envious

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I find it annoying because the kids I know well from upper NW/close-in MD who are being recruited have parents who poured an absolute TON of money into their kids.
Their kid had baseline athletic ability (as do countless kids at age 5 or 8) and then their parents paid for private coaches for YEARS and YEARS. Flew them all over the Eastern seaboard for tournaments. Weekend after weekend for years. Three of the kids I'm thinking of have dads (and moms) who never worked or have worked very, very part time (they live off family money).
The dad's sole occupation for 17 years has been to develop their kid's talent.
If you live in NW DC or Chevy Chase, etc and have a kid on high-level travel teams, I'm sure you've run into this situation. I've seen it at least a half dozen times.

I know that this type of situation isn't the case with high school athletes in much of America (or maybe it is?) but here in NW DC, it's the kids who paid ENORMOUS amounts of money to play that are being recruited. And often with parents who can afford to not work or to only work very part-time. Not all recruits from this area are in this position (for sure!) but I have seen it happen many times.

More jealously, stop worrying about what other people do with their lives, their money, whether they work or not. As others have said, plenty of the same happens in getting students a leg up on many other dimensions of college admissions....private schools with small classes, tutors, test prep, home environments with little responsibility (no job needed, every need/want provided). Education of parents is the biggest predictor of child success, are you jealous of people with college degrees too?