Brent vs. Maury vs. Ludlow-Taylor

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Give us a break. Most high SES families of all stripes who enroll at LT for ECE still leave by 4th or 5th grade. But it was the very same story at Brent and Maury for the first decade after each of these schools started to "turn." LT will catch up soon enough, within 4 or 5 years. It takes a lot longer for neighborhood parents in a gentrifying area to collectively feel confident about the upper ES grades in a DCPS school that new parents tend to think. The reality is that embassy types are about the last neighborhood parents stay through 4th or 5th.

I actually bet the number of high SES kids at the schools in 5th grade isn’t as different as you think. LT sends some high SES kids to SH every year whereas Brent and Maury send almost none to their respective feeders.

Not true about Maury. Significant numbers trying Eliot-Hine.

Doesn't EH have like 20 white kids total? "Significant numbers" seems like a pretty big stretch there. My impression is that UMC POCs are even less likely to try these middle schools for reasons I totally understand.

And there it is. What it's all about. Spare me. I sent my kids to Watkins and SH, and am probably on the higher-end of wealth of the posters on here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Give us a break. Most high SES families of all stripes who enroll at LT for ECE still leave by 4th or 5th grade. But it was the very same story at Brent and Maury for the first decade after each of these schools started to "turn." LT will catch up soon enough, within 4 or 5 years. It takes a lot longer for neighborhood parents in a gentrifying area to collectively feel confident about the upper ES grades in a DCPS school that new parents tend to think. The reality is that embassy types are about the last neighborhood parents stay through 4th or 5th.

Most people Brent and Maury by 5th because they don't like the middle school options. That will continue to happen until people like the middle school options.

Not quite. This year, and last year, no more than half the IB families left between 4th and 5th at both schools, not most.

If you go back 5 or 6 years, half the Brent and Maury IB families left between K and 4th grade. That's where LT is right now.

Brent is 66% IB while LT is 57%, so while Brent is definitely ahead of LT, I don’t actually think those are orders of magnitude different like some posters would seem to suggest. There is actually a much mugger gap between Maury (87%) and Brent than between Brent and LT.

Where are you getting the 66%? Sounds like a stat from several years ago. The current 4th grade class was 100% IB in K and few new faces have appeared over the years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Give us a break. Most high SES families of all stripes who enroll at LT for ECE still leave by 4th or 5th grade. But it was the very same story at Brent and Maury for the first decade after each of these schools started to "turn." LT will catch up soon enough, within 4 or 5 years. It takes a lot longer for neighborhood parents in a gentrifying area to collectively feel confident about the upper ES grades in a DCPS school that new parents tend to think. The reality is that embassy types are about the last neighborhood parents stay through 4th or 5th.

Most people Brent and Maury by 5th because they don't like the middle school options. That will continue to happen until people like the middle school options.

Not quite. This year, and last year, no more than half the IB families left between 4th and 5th at both schools, not most.

If you go back 5 or 6 years, half the Brent and Maury IB families left between K and 4th grade. That's where LT is right now.

Brent is 66% IB while LT is 57%, so while Brent is definitely ahead of LT, I don’t actually think those are orders of magnitude different like some posters would seem to suggest. There is actually a much mugger gap between Maury (87%) and Brent than between Brent and LT.

Where are you getting the 66%? Sounds like a stat from several years ago. The current 4th grade class was 100% IB in K and few new faces have appeared over the years.

From the most recently available stats for all schools, 2 years ago. Also where I’m getting the LT number, which I’d imagine is changing faster, if anything… and the Maury number.

[Anonymous]

We have been at Brent for 5 years, and I have to be honest, I used to complain about relative lack of diversity, but recently it feels like there are more international families. Quite a number are only there for a year or two, in between overseas appointments. A lot more Asians too. It's not representative of DC's general population, but it's certainly diverse.

I think Brent has been great for my kids socially, but it's mediocre academically.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here with a follow up question. We're visiting DC soon to find a rental on Capitol Hill. We'll spend some time with a property management company that specializes in the area. But, are there any large apartment buildings or management companies that might be worthwhile to look at/contact? Or any other advice for finding a place in the neighborhood?

Check out John Formant property too.

We live north of Lincoln Park and IB Maury. It’s a huge boundary for a school and not as Gerrymandered as the cluster school. It’s a great school, and agree living on 20th street would be annoying but near the park is great!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here with a follow up question. We're visiting DC soon to find a rental on Capitol Hill. We'll spend some time with a property management company that specializes in the area. But, are there any large apartment buildings or management companies that might be worthwhile to look at/contact? Or any other advice for finding a place in the neighborhood?

Check out John Formant property too.

We live north of Lincoln Park and IB Maury. It’s a huge boundary for a school and not as Gerrymandered as the cluster school. It’s a great school, and agree living on 20th street would be annoying but near the park is great!

John Formant is a great rec, especially if you’d lean apartment in good location over more house in a worse location. John Formant does, among other things, tons of the small 4-8 unit apartment buildings on the Hill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We have been at Brent for 5 years, and I have to be honest, I used to complain about relative lack of diversity, but recently it feels like there are more international families. Quite a number are only there for a year or two, in between overseas appointments. A lot more Asians too. It's not representative of DC's general population, but it's certainly diverse.

I think Brent has been great for my kids socially, but it's mediocre academically.

All DCPS elementary schools are mediocre or weak academically. That's to be expected, OP. Our friends in Upper NW with kids at Key and Mann, the most high SES/whitest of all the DCPS schools, complain that the these programs are mediocre academically. Worth remembering that DCPS is one of the lowest-performing urban school systems nationally, and that there are no formal elementary gifted programs in the system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Give us a break. Most high SES families of all stripes who enroll at LT for ECE still leave by 4th or 5th grade. But it was the very same story at Brent and Maury for the first decade after each of these schools started to "turn." LT will catch up soon enough, within 4 or 5 years. It takes a lot longer for neighborhood parents in a gentrifying area to collectively feel confident about the upper ES grades in a DCPS school that new parents tend to think. The reality is that embassy types are about the last neighborhood parents stay through 4th or 5th.

I actually bet the number of high SES kids at the schools in 5th grade isn’t as different as you think. LT sends some high SES kids to SH every year whereas Brent and Maury send almost none to their respective feeders.

Not true about Maury. Significant numbers trying Eliot-Hine.

Doesn't EH have like 20 white kids total? "Significant numbers" seems like a pretty big stretch there. My impression is that UMC POCs are even less likely to try these middle schools for reasons I totally understand.

Maury has a small 5th grade class and a lot of them are enrolling. I expect this to continue with UMC Payne families too. I’m not trying to prove anything about race either way. Everyone would love to have a neighborhood MS so we and I assume most other families have an open mind.

Honestly, if I were a family that had only been at Maury from PK to 5th, I too would have an open mind, because I would never have seen how chaotic a school can really be. As a OOB family new to Maury this year, I simply cannot believe how much nicer this school is compared to my IB. It actually makes me angry to know that such a vast difference can occur between schools that are within walking distance of one another.

+1. There was a day a few years back when I visited Deal MS and Jefferson Academy on the same day and I thought my head would explode with the stark difference in resourcing and school culture within the same school system. It’s when I realized DCPS Central Office is actually criminal in its neglect of a majority of its student population.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Give us a break. Most high SES families of all stripes who enroll at LT for ECE still leave by 4th or 5th grade. But it was the very same story at Brent and Maury for the first decade after each of these schools started to "turn." LT will catch up soon enough, within 4 or 5 years. It takes a lot longer for neighborhood parents in a gentrifying area to collectively feel confident about the upper ES grades in a DCPS school that new parents tend to think. The reality is that embassy types are about the last neighborhood parents stay through 4th or 5th.

I actually bet the number of high SES kids at the schools in 5th grade isn’t as different as you think. LT sends some high SES kids to SH every year whereas Brent and Maury send almost none to their respective feeders.

Not true about Maury. Significant numbers trying Eliot-Hine.

Doesn't EH have like 20 white kids total? "Significant numbers" seems like a pretty big stretch there. My impression is that UMC POCs are even less likely to try these middle schools for reasons I totally understand.

Maury has a small 5th grade class and a lot of them are enrolling. I expect this to continue with UMC Payne families too. I’m not trying to prove anything about race either way. Everyone would love to have a neighborhood MS so we and I assume most other families have an open mind.

Honestly, if I were a family that had only been at Maury from PK to 5th, I too would have an open mind, because I would never have seen how chaotic a school can really be. As a OOB family new to Maury this year, I simply cannot believe how much nicer this school is compared to my IB. It actually makes me angry to know that such a vast difference can occur between schools that are within walking distance of one another.

+1. There was a day a few years back when I visited Deal MS and Jefferson Academy on the same day and I thought my head would explode with the stark difference in resourcing and school culture within the same school system. It’s when I realized DCPS Central Office is actually criminal in its neglect of a majority of its student population.

I’ve never set foot in either school, but if there is a stark difference in physical plant resources, I agree that it’s criminal. School culture is a bit trickier since many aspects of culture (for better or worse) are imported into the school via the student body. It’s just a hell of a lot easier to cultivate a strong(ish) academic culture at Deal vs EH/Jeff. But I suppose if we have to lift heaven and earth to do it, so be it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Give us a break. Most high SES families of all stripes who enroll at LT for ECE still leave by 4th or 5th grade. But it was the very same story at Brent and Maury for the first decade after each of these schools started to "turn." LT will catch up soon enough, within 4 or 5 years. It takes a lot longer for neighborhood parents in a gentrifying area to collectively feel confident about the upper ES grades in a DCPS school that new parents tend to think. The reality is that embassy types are about the last neighborhood parents stay through 4th or 5th.

I actually bet the number of high SES kids at the schools in 5th grade isn’t as different as you think. LT sends some high SES kids to SH every year whereas Brent and Maury send almost none to their respective feeders.

Not true about Maury. Significant numbers trying Eliot-Hine.

Doesn't EH have like 20 white kids total? "Significant numbers" seems like a pretty big stretch there. My impression is that UMC POCs are even less likely to try these middle schools for reasons I totally understand.

Maury has a small 5th grade class and a lot of them are enrolling. I expect this to continue with UMC Payne families too. I’m not trying to prove anything about race either way. Everyone would love to have a neighborhood MS so we and I assume most other families have an open mind.

Honestly, if I were a family that had only been at Maury from PK to 5th, I too would have an open mind, because I would never have seen how chaotic a school can really be. As a OOB family new to Maury this year, I simply cannot believe how much nicer this school is compared to my IB. It actually makes me angry to know that such a vast difference can occur between schools that are within walking distance of one another.

+1. There was a day a few years back when I visited Deal MS and Jefferson Academy on the same day and I thought my head would explode with the stark difference in resourcing and school culture within the same school system. It’s when I realized DCPS Central Office is actually criminal in its neglect of a majority of its student population.

I’ve never set foot in either school, but if there is a stark difference in physical plant resources, I agree that it’s criminal. School culture is a bit trickier since many aspects of culture (for better or worse) are imported into the school via the student body. It’s just a hell of a lot easier to cultivate a strong(ish) academic culture at Deal vs EH/Jeff. But I suppose if we have to lift heaven and earth to do it, so be it.

It’s gotten better at Jefferson, but no exaggeration—there were busted stagelights with glass and garbage strewn around the auditorium floor, exposed electrical wires hanging in the hallways, overflowing trash dumpsters one shredded nets on the “basketball court”. Classrooms were dirty, desks broken musty textbooks on the bookshelves. No library to speak of. Half the classroom lights were out. Of course the adults in the building seemed demoralized. And precious 10-13 year olds trying to learn in the middle of that. I’ve seen a lot, and the scene there made me cry.

Do you know what happened? Brent parents announced they were coming for a “look-see” at their feeder middle school and somehow the wheels started moving. Work orders responded to, clean up and paint jobs, bulbs replaced within 2-3 weeks before the Brent parents came for their tour. This is what I mean by criminal neglect by DCPS.

And I don’t agree with you about school culture—the adults in charge set the standards and the culture. It’s built through respect and consistency and love. I’ve seen excellent school culture in places with some of the most difficult, hard-to-reach students.

[Anonymous]

OK, but what's the relevance to the Brent, Maury, LT choice? No more than 20% of in-boundary parents at any one of these elementary schools are enrolling at their by-right middle school.

[Anonymous]

For what it's worth, the Jefferson building was recently modernized and is now awesome.

Our child is a Brent graduate who is now at Jefferson, along with several friends from Brent. So far, we couldn't be happier with the experience. The principal is amazing, as are all of the teachers who we've interacted with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For what it's worth, the Jefferson building was recently modernized and is now awesome.

Our child is a Brent graduate who is now at Jefferson, along with several friends from Brent. So far, we couldn't be happier with the experience. The principal is amazing, as are all of the teachers who we've interacted with.

Great. I’m the Jefferson poster—I was just adding on to the Maury poster’s observations about the differences they see in schools just a few blocks from one another.

Definitely off-topic since the original poster has a limited list of places they are looking and don’t need middle school.

I suppose as a stake-holder in DC, it is worth knowing the hypocrisy, double-standards, political nonsense, educational neglect and dysfunction that our school system is capable of.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For what it's worth, the Jefferson building was recently modernized and is now awesome.

Our child is a Brent graduate who is now at Jefferson, along with several friends from Brent. So far, we couldn't be happier with the experience. The principal is amazing, as are all of the teachers who we've interacted with.

OK, but this is the school that likes to sprinkle white kids around homerooms, one or two to each homeroom per grade.

Middle school kids tend to learn almost as much from peers as they do from teachers. At least half of the Jefferson students lead tough lives, explaining why they perform below grade level. There are no honors classes.

It's worth talking to Brent parents who tried Jefferson and bailed before 8th grade.

[Anonymous]

Jefferson does have an advance math track.

The often-repeated claim that learning is heavily influenced by peers is not supported by the data I've seen. Example: Compare the PARCC-passage rate of white kids in Ward 6 middle schools (including Jefferson) with that of white kids in Ward 3 middle schools (including Deal).

It's also worth talking to Brent parents whose kids graduated from Jefferson and are now attending high schools like Walls and Banneker.