Sister's H is emotionally and verbally abusive

[Anonymous]

Sister's H is emotionally and verbally abusive which is apparently getting worse. They have 2 kids, 18 months and 7 weeks. Our other sister and I have been trying to convince her to see a therapist. Her last hang up is that she worries CPS will get involved if she goes and admits what is going on to the therapist. Does anyone know if that is the case? I know she needs to leave him and I know the kids are being harmed by being in that environment even with nothing physical going on. A good first step is seeing a therapist. Does anyone know if she is right to be concerned if there is no physical abuse and they take good care of the kids? TIA!

[Anonymous]

Sadly, emotional and verbal abuse are not cause for mandated reporting to CPS. It messes kids up, though!

[Anonymous]

Your sister needs to see a therapist so maybe you and other sister can help with child care to make it happen. If funds are an issue the Women's Center in NOVA might be a resource. Also with such little kids, your sister may well benefit from some regular respite to help her get a clear view of the situation and what her next steps might be preferably by taking kids to one of your homes.

It might be important for you and your other sister to get a code word or phrase from her that woukd indicate a more immediate risk and the need to help her take some steps for her safety.

[Anonymous]

OP again-

15:20, that's what we thought and what we have been telling her. Since posting this, she admitted to me that it has been "slightly physical" (her words) with her. He raised his fist to her twice while she was holding her oldest when he was only a few months old. Then more recently, sometime in the past month, he pushed her into a door and picked her up by her wrists and forearms to move her, which put bruises on her wrists. Do you (or anyone else reading) know if this changes things regarding mandated reporting to CPS since it's not outright hitting, etc, and has rarely happened? She is adamant CPS not get involved and I worry she won't get help if that is a possibility. I want to be honest with her no matter what that means.

13:00, all great ideas, thank you! We both have offered to help her with her kids. I'll talk to our other sister about a code word and go from there. We have suggested her keeping a bag packed and hidden just in case she needs to get out immediately and she responded well to that.

Thanks for the helpful responses!

[Anonymous]

I once attended the funeral of a woman and her two young sons who were killed by her abusive husband. Yes, CPS will get involved, as exposing children to DV is in and of itself a form of abuse. If your sister is unwilling to protect her children, CPS should be involved. You knowing what is going on and doing nothing is makes you responsible too, you know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP again-

15:20, that's what we thought and what we have been telling her. Since posting this, she admitted to me that it has been "slightly physical" (her words) with her. He raised his fist to her twice while she was holding her oldest when he was only a few months old. Then more recently, sometime in the past month, he pushed her into a door and picked her up by her wrists and forearms to move her, which put bruises on her wrists. Do you (or anyone else reading) know if this changes things regarding mandated reporting to CPS since it's not outright hitting, etc, and has rarely happened? She is adamant CPS not get involved and I worry she won't get help if that is a possibility. I want to be honest with her no matter what that means.

13:00, all great ideas, thank you! We both have offered to help her with her kids. I'll talk to our other sister about a code word and go from there. We have suggested her keeping a bag packed and hidden just in case she needs to get out immediately and she responded well to that.

Thanks for the helpful responses!

It sounds like you all are doing a great job and the most important thing is that she knows you are there and are a safe place to come when she is able to leave. One of the most unsafe times for a woman experiencing intimate partner violence is when they try to leave, so it’s implrtant to trust her gut on when that is right. This is why if she seeks support from an agency helping victims, they won’t encourage her to leave but just help her understand her options so that’s a role you can play too. Victims know bestwhat is safe for them, but it can be hard for others to realize that. She is lucky to have family like you and it will certainly facilitate her safety in the future I’m sure.

As to your specific question, it is hard to answer because things vary by state and situation. Typically intimate partner violence alone is not considered something that a mandated reporter is required to report - but this can vary on the reporters judgement and how serious the situation is. I would say that when I worked as a child therapist and also for a domestic violence agency, we did not report and if someone had reported it likely would not have been taken up as a case by child protective services. Child protective services will usually only intervene if the violence is against the child specifically (and serious violence). The reason I say “usually” and can’t give you an exact answer is because each state has their own laws and it is of course up to the discretion of any therapist if they feel a child is unsafe whether to call. I would be shocked if an experienced therapist would contact CPS based on what you reported (recognizing it is often NOT in the best interest for the child to be removed in this situation!) and even if they did call, I would be even more shocked if CPS accepted the report and actually investigated. This all changes of course if violence is perpetrated against the child. I can’t give a guarantee because in severe domestic violence situations, child protective services has certainly gotten involved im sure, but I have never heard of it in a situation like your sister’s.

What I would recommend is searching for agencies that specialize in services for victims of domestic violence. Unfortunately not all providers are as well trained on this issue as they should be. But an agency that specializes in this will have providers well trained, will respond appropriately and can provide support. An agency is also extremely unlikely report to CPS - women would never feel safe to come to them if that was the approach they took. Their goal is to support the woman in getting to safety for herself and her children. So that feels like the safest route where you can safely advise your sister she can get support without fear. I don’t know where you live but I think if you call the national domestic violencrhotline they would give you resources nearby for such an agency. I really recommend this over going to a random therapist. Sadly in my work I found that mental health professionals, drs, etc all recieve far too little training on this issue. https://www.thehotline.org the hotline is for victims but you could still call and gather some resources for her, or even better - sit with her while she calls. It is all anonymous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sister's H is emotionally and verbally abusive which is apparently getting worse. They have 2 kids, 18 months and 7 weeks. Our other sister and I have been trying to convince her to see a therapist. Her last hang up is that she worries CPS will get involved if she goes and admits what is going on to the therapist. Does anyone know if that is the case? I know she needs to leave him and I know the kids are being harmed by being in that environment even with nothing physical going on. A good first step is seeing a therapist. Does anyone know if she is right to be concerned if there is no physical abuse and they take good care of the kids? TIA!

A mandated reporter will need to report if he is abusing the children. That isn't happening. There is nothing to report. Your sister needs to see a therapist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP again-

15:20, that's what we thought and what we have been telling her. Since posting this, she admitted to me that it has been "slightly physical" (her words) with her. He raised his fist to her twice while she was holding her oldest when he was only a few months old. Then more recently, sometime in the past month, he pushed her into a door and picked her up by her wrists and forearms to move her, which put bruises on her wrists. Do you (or anyone else reading) know if this changes things regarding mandated reporting to CPS since it's not outright hitting, etc, and has rarely happened? She is adamant CPS not get involved and I worry she won't get help if that is a possibility. I want to be honest with her no matter what that means.

13:00, all great ideas, thank you! We both have offered to help her with her kids. I'll talk to our other sister about a code word and go from there. We have suggested her keeping a bag packed and hidden just in case she needs to get out immediately and she responded well to that.

Thanks for the helpful responses!

It sounds like you all are doing a great job and the most important thing is that she knows you are there and are a safe place to come when she is able to leave. One of the most unsafe times for a woman experiencing intimate partner violence is when they try to leave, so it’s implrtant to trust her gut on when that is right. This is why if she seeks support from an agency helping victims, they won’t encourage her to leave but just help her understand her options so that’s a role you can play too. Victims know bestwhat is safe for them, but it can be hard for others to realize that. She is lucky to have family like you and it will certainly facilitate her safety in the future I’m sure.

As to your specific question, it is hard to answer because things vary by state and situation. Typically intimate partner violence alone is not considered something that a mandated reporter is required to report - but this can vary on the reporters judgement and how serious the situation is. I would say that when I worked as a child therapist and also for a domestic violence agency, we did not report and if someone had reported it likely would not have been taken up as a case by child protective services. Child protective services will usually only intervene if the violence is against the child specifically (and serious violence). The reason I say “usually” and can’t give you an exact answer is because each state has their own laws and it is of course up to the discretion of any therapist if they feel a child is unsafe whether to call. I would be shocked if an experienced therapist would contact CPS based on what you reported (recognizing it is often NOT in the best interest for the child to be removed in this situation!) and even if they did call, I would be even more shocked if CPS accepted the report and actually investigated. This all changes of course if violence is perpetrated against the child. I can’t give a guarantee because in severe domestic violence situations, child protective services has certainly gotten involved im sure, but I have never heard of it in a situation like your sister’s.

What I would recommend is searching for agencies that specialize in services for victims of domestic violence. Unfortunately not all providers are as well trained on this issue as they should be. But an agency that specializes in this will have providers well trained, will respond appropriately and can provide support. An agency is also extremely unlikely report to CPS - women would never feel safe to come to them if that was the approach they took. Their goal is to support the woman in getting to safety for herself and her children. So that feels like the safest route where you can safely advise your sister she can get support without fear. I don’t know where you live but I think if you call the national domestic violencrhotline they would give you resources nearby for such an agency. I really recommend this over going to a random therapist. Sadly in my work I found that mental health professionals, drs, etc all recieve far too little training on this issue. https://www.thehotline.org the hotline is for victims but you could still call and gather some resources for her, or even better - sit with her while she calls. It is all anonymous.

Sorry for typos! Long post to make from my phone ????? Good luck to you and your sister. And kudos to you for being a safe, nonjudgmental place she can come for support.

[Anonymous]

I recently left a verbally and emotionally abusive marriage that was sometimes physical (similar to what your sister is experiencing).

We have children together.

I worked with a therapist for about six months before I left. She never indicated she thought CPS needed to be involved. We spoke a lot about ensuring our safety when I left, and the potential for him to use the kids to manipulate me after I left, and how to handle that.

I hope this is helpful to you.

[Anonymous]

OP, I work for CPS. If someone reported this family to us, our investigation would center around how mom was protecting the children from the domestic violence and providing her services to make that happen/leave if that was something she was ready to do. We would help her understand how to get a restraining order, set her up with a counselor, make a safety plan for her, etc. She wouldn't be the subject of the report - he would be.

I would be seriously wondering why your sister is so reluctant to have CPS involved when her husband is abusing her in front of her children - such that she's refusing to even seek counseling. Does she not know how the process works, or is there more going on than she is admitting to you?

[Anonymous]

NP. Don't have an answer to the CPS question but as a survivor of an abusive relationship years ago, I'll tell you that she's probably freaked out at the possibility of losing more control than what she already has lost. I'm going to guess that holding together having such young children (itself a source of great stress and uncertainty) and such an antagonistic, horrific marriage is already taking everything she's got and she's freaked out at the thought that CPS might complicate things further.

She's lucky she has you and your other sister, OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I work for CPS. If someone reported this family to us, our investigation would center around how mom was protecting the children from the domestic violence and providing her services to make that happen/leave if that was something she was ready to do. We would help her understand how to get a restraining order, set her up with a counselor, make a safety plan for her, etc. She wouldn't be the subject of the report - he would be.

I would be seriously wondering why your sister is so reluctant to have CPS involved when her husband is abusing her in front of her children - such that she's refusing to even seek counseling. Does she not know how the process works, or is there more going on than she is admitting to you?

PP here. Thanks for providing your perspective and although I think it's very unlikely this family would be reported to CPS as I stated above, it is helpful for the OP to understand the resources that would be provided if she is ever in that situation. I do find it concerning that you state you don't understand why this woman might be afraid to seek counseling. The cycle of power and control at work in domestic violence leads many, many loving, caring mothers to feel fearful of seeking help and remain in situations that may feel untenable to others. It may not have been intended, but your tone came across as very condescending and implied blame on the mother, who is a victim. These kind of comments and insinuations, especially from someone in your position, are part of what make women afraid to come forward.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I work for CPS. If someone reported this family to us, our investigation would center around how mom was protecting the children from the domestic violence and providing her services to make that happen/leave if that was something she was ready to do. We would help her understand how to get a restraining order, set her up with a counselor, make a safety plan for her, etc. She wouldn't be the subject of the report - he would be.

I would be seriously wondering why your sister is so reluctant to have CPS involved when her husband is abusing her in front of her children - such that she's refusing to even seek counseling. Does she not know how the process works, or is there more going on than she is admitting to you?

PP here. Thanks for providing your perspective and although I think it's very unlikely this family would be reported to CPS as I stated above, it is helpful for the OP to understand the resources that would be provided if she is ever in that situation. I do find it concerning that you state you don't understand why this woman might be afraid to seek counseling. The cycle of power and control at work in domestic violence leads many, many loving, caring mothers to feel fearful of seeking help and remain in situations that may feel untenable to others. It may not have been intended, but your tone came across as very condescending and implied blame on the mother, who is a victim. These kind of comments and insinuations, especially from someone in your position, are part of what make women afraid to come forward.

PP here. No, I get all that and my intention was not to blame her for the situation at all. I also know that many survivors of domestic violence, particularly those who have decided not to leave or who have not decided yet, often minimize the abuse they experience, particularly when they first disclose. This has already occurred in this situation, as the sister previously described this relationship as emotional and verbal abuse and in the time between OP's posts, she's disclosed physical violence as well. I would be worried - both as a clinician and a loved one - about things being a lot worse than she has disclosed. I didn't say that I didn't understand why she was reluctant to seek counseling. I understand that entirely. Her stated reason for avoiding counseling was a red flag to me that things are worse than she has disclosed at this point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I work for CPS. If someone reported this family to us, our investigation would center around how mom was protecting the children from the domestic violence and providing her services to make that happen/leave if that was something she was ready to do. We would help her understand how to get a restraining order, set her up with a counselor, make a safety plan for her, etc. She wouldn't be the subject of the report - he would be.

I would be seriously wondering why your sister is so reluctant to have CPS involved when her husband is abusing her in front of her children - such that she's refusing to even seek counseling. Does she not know how the process works, or is there more going on than she is admitting to you?

PP here. Thanks for providing your perspective and although I think it's very unlikely this family would be reported to CPS as I stated above, it is helpful for the OP to understand the resources that would be provided if she is ever in that situation. I do find it concerning that you state you don't understand why this woman might be afraid to seek counseling. The cycle of power and control at work in domestic violence leads many, many loving, caring mothers to feel fearful of seeking help and remain in situations that may feel untenable to others. It may not have been intended, but your tone came across as very condescending and implied blame on the mother, who is a victim. These kind of comments and insinuations, especially from someone in your position, are part of what make women afraid to come forward.

PP here. No, I get all that and my intention was not to blame her for the situation at all. I also know that many survivors of domestic violence, particularly those who have decided not to leave or who have not decided yet, often minimize the abuse they experience, particularly when they first disclose. This has already occurred in this situation, as the sister previously described this relationship as emotional and verbal abuse and in the time between OP's posts, she's disclosed physical violence as well. I would be worried - both as a clinician and a loved one - about things being a lot worse than she has disclosed. I didn't say that I didn't understand why she was reluctant to seek counseling. I understand that entirely. Her stated reason for avoiding counseling was a red flag to me that things are worse than she has disclosed at this point.

PP - thanks for clarifying, that makes a lot of sense and I agree. I think I misread/misinterpreted your statement!

[Anonymous]

if its bad enough that CPS gets called, I would want them there to protect mom, the kids and create a record for custody issues.