I’m a liberal democrat horrified by the current Dr Seuss drama and normalization of censorship

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OR OP your opinion is just in the minority. Why do you care that people disagree with you, so much so that a publisher decides it also disagrees with you? What harm do you think is being perpetrated here? Really. I want to know. What is it you fear is being lost? There are better books in the catalogue that don’t have the same problems. No one is cancelling Seuss.

Oh, my opinion is definitely in the minority. It's an even smaller minority than you think. That's why you all keep taking wrong guesses and wonder what it "really" is. I could try to tell you, but you probably won't like it. Want me to try anyway? If you don't get it you don't, but will you think I'm idiot because you don't get it, or admit that other people might have a valid opinion too.

You made your opinion clear many times. You don’t see a problem with the books. There’s no guessing going on here.

You didn’t answer my question.

The harm is that in using a subjective standard that favors some people over others, those who are disadvantaged by this in some way also suffer a type of "harm." You call yourself empathetic because you extend your empathy to certain races. But you don't extend your empathy to others whom you disagree with. This harmful to them and they are telling you so. You think the harm to them doesn't count. It is your right to think that. I think that's wrong. Sorry I have empathy for people who don't count. It apparently makes me a bad person. I'm okay with that.

Harmful to whom and how, do tell.

Who is harmed by stopping publication?

Clearly, the Trumpers are being harmed. They are melting as their treasured literary masterpieces go out of style.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Mom! Why doesn’t that man with the slanty eyes eat with sticks and wear a pointy hat?” “Is he one of those helpers from a country with a name I can’t pronounce?” Omg 😱 Yikes.

This is why i would have made the decision not to publish it anymore, if it were my decision. This is what kids do with stereotypes. Wise decision. Also, imagine being a Kindergarten teacher and reading these books to a class with kids from mixed backgrounds. Ugh.

The Asians of this country are kicking the white man's butt in college and work. Not sure what you mean by helpers. More like, wow, that's really cool. I want to be like the Chinese. Can we eat with chopsticks? That's how it would go down in our house.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Mom! Why doesn’t that man with the slanty eyes eat with sticks and wear a pointy hat?” “Is he one of those helpers from a country with a name I can’t pronounce?” Omg 😱 Yikes.

This is why i would have made the decision not to publish it anymore, if it were my decision. This is what kids do with stereotypes. Wise decision. Also, imagine being a Kindergarten teacher and reading these books to a class with kids from mixed backgrounds. Ugh.

The Asians of this country are kicking the white man's butt in college and work. Not sure what you mean by helpers. More like, wow, that's really cool. I want to be like the Chinese. Can we eat with chopsticks? That's how it would go down in our house.

Translation: Me any my family are not offended, therefore, nobody should be offended.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:The original line that OP quoted was actually pretty offensive. It was apparently revised in 1978. Here is the original text and drawing:



According to Wikipedia:

"The book has received only one textual revision. In 1978, Geisel agreed to a slight rewording, renaming the character who appears near the end of the story a "Chinese man" instead of a "Chinaman".[14] He also agreed to remove the character's pigtail and the yellow coloring from the character's skin."

The book was pointing out how diverse Mulberry Street was in a dream. It wasn't saying anything derogatory about the person. It was showing how a child was enthralled by all the diversity of the world he dreamed about. The reality of Mulberry Street was that there was no Chinaman or Chinese Man. It was a boring street. The book was wishing the child could meet diverse people and see diverse things. So to me, taking it out signifies that we really just want to experience Mulberry Street as it really was.

The man wrote a book about all the places you could go. All the houses you could live in. He wrote about Sneetches and accepting everyone regardless of the look of your skin. He definitely appreciated cultures. It's all ridiculous.

The issue isn't the wish for diversity, it is the characatures that propagate falsehoods about a race or group of people.

Interesting way to *out it. How many characatures have been propagated on this thread by people who agree with you and against what group of people?

*put it.

Sorry -- what is wrong with this? Do people in China not use chopsticks? The person is in traditional Chinese clothes for southern china.

It's a charactature of a Chinese person using stereotypical eating implements, therefore racist. It's really that simple, take it or leave it, but a lot of people will get offended if you don't agree.

It’s not racist. Stop making stuff up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OR OP your opinion is just in the minority. Why do you care that people disagree with you, so much so that a publisher decides it also disagrees with you? What harm do you think is being perpetrated here? Really. I want to know. What is it you fear is being lost? There are better books in the catalogue that don’t have the same problems. No one is cancelling Seuss.

Oh, my opinion is definitely in the minority. It's an even smaller minority than you think. That's why you all keep taking wrong guesses and wonder what it "really" is. I could try to tell you, but you probably won't like it. Want me to try anyway? If you don't get it you don't, but will you think I'm idiot because you don't get it, or admit that other people might have a valid opinion too.

You made your opinion clear many times. You don’t see a problem with the books. There’s no guessing going on here.

You didn’t answer my question.

The harm is that in using a subjective standard that favors some people over others, those who are disadvantaged by this in some way also suffer a type of "harm." You call yourself empathetic because you extend your empathy to certain races. But you don't extend your empathy to others whom you disagree with. This harmful to them and they are telling you so. You think the harm to them doesn't count. It is your right to think that. I think that's wrong. Sorry I have empathy for people who don't count. It apparently makes me a bad person. I'm okay with that.

Harmful to whom and how, do tell.

Who is harmed by stopping publication?

Well I'm sure the foundation did this to preserve their sales of other books. For them it's a monetary decision. Based on "the mob" saying they won't buy Dr. Seuss otherwise. But it's gone farther to where teachers don't want to read Dr. Seuss and are smearing the name. It's just a complete overreaction of a famous author who was anti-racist in most of his work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Mom! Why doesn’t that man with the slanty eyes eat with sticks and wear a pointy hat?” “Is he one of those helpers from a country with a name I can’t pronounce?” Omg 😱 Yikes.

This is why i would have made the decision not to publish it anymore, if it were my decision. This is what kids do with stereotypes. Wise decision. Also, imagine being a Kindergarten teacher and reading these books to a class with kids from mixed backgrounds. Ugh.

The Asians of this country are kicking the white man's butt in college and work. Not sure what you mean by helpers. More like, wow, that's really cool. I want to be like the Chinese. Can we eat with chopsticks? That's how it would go down in our house.

Me too. When I saw chopsticks, I wanted to learn how to use them, so I did. Then I taught my kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:But PP thinks everyone should like pickled goat hooves! And the restaurant owner should keep them on the menu just in case someone comes by who does! Even if it costs them something.

Gah, this is so dumb.

It’s like the hey think there’s only one restaurant in town with one menu allowed. Not the case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OR OP your opinion is just in the minority. Why do you care that people disagree with you, so much so that a publisher decides it also disagrees with you? What harm do you think is being perpetrated here? Really. I want to know. What is it you fear is being lost? There are better books in the catalogue that don’t have the same problems. No one is cancelling Seuss.

Oh, my opinion is definitely in the minority. It's an even smaller minority than you think. That's why you all keep taking wrong guesses and wonder what it "really" is. I could try to tell you, but you probably won't like it. Want me to try anyway? If you don't get it you don't, but will you think I'm idiot because you don't get it, or admit that other people might have a valid opinion too.

You made your opinion clear many times. You don’t see a problem with the books. There’s no guessing going on here.

You didn’t answer my question.

The harm is that in using a subjective standard that favors some people over others, those who are disadvantaged by this in some way also suffer a type of "harm." You call yourself empathetic because you extend your empathy to certain races. But you don't extend your empathy to others whom you disagree with. This harmful to them and they are telling you so. You think the harm to them doesn't count. It is your right to think that. I think that's wrong. Sorry I have empathy for people who don't count. It apparently makes me a bad person. I'm okay with that.

Harmful to whom and how, do tell.

Who is harmed by stopping publication?

Well I'm sure the foundation did this to preserve their sales of other books. For them it's a monetary decision. Based on "the mob" saying they won't buy Dr. Seuss otherwise. But it's gone farther to where teachers don't want to read Dr. Seuss and are smearing the name. It's just a complete overreaction of a famous author who was anti-racist in most of his work.

So who was harmed by stopping publication?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Mom! Why doesn’t that man with the slanty eyes eat with sticks and wear a pointy hat?” “Is he one of those helpers from a country with a name I can’t pronounce?” Omg 😱 Yikes.

This is why i would have made the decision not to publish it anymore, if it were my decision. This is what kids do with stereotypes. Wise decision. Also, imagine being a Kindergarten teacher and reading these books to a class with kids from mixed backgrounds. Ugh.

The Asians of this country are kicking the white man's butt in college and work. Not sure what you mean by helpers. More like, wow, that's really cool. I want to be like the Chinese. Can we eat with chopsticks? That's how it would go down in our house.

It’s a quote from “if I ran the zoo”. Catch up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Mom! Why doesn’t that man with the slanty eyes eat with sticks and wear a pointy hat?” “Is he one of those helpers from a country with a name I can’t pronounce?” Omg 😱 Yikes.

This is why i would have made the decision not to publish it anymore, if it were my decision. This is what kids do with stereotypes. Wise decision. Also, imagine being a Kindergarten teacher and reading these books to a class with kids from mixed backgrounds. Ugh.

The Asians of this country are kicking the white man's butt in college and work. Not sure what you mean by helpers. More like, wow, that's really cool. I want to be like the Chinese. Can we eat with chopsticks? That's how it would go down in our house.

Translation: Me any my family are not offended, therefore, nobody should be offended.

No, if we are looking at current society, in what area of America are Asians seen as merely "helpers"? Jews and Asians are doing just fine in America to the point where people are being racist against them to help bring up the black and Hispanic population. Also, there is nothing in this image that depicts them as helpers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:The original line that OP quoted was actually pretty offensive. It was apparently revised in 1978. Here is the original text and drawing:



According to Wikipedia:

"The book has received only one textual revision. In 1978, Geisel agreed to a slight rewording, renaming the character who appears near the end of the story a "Chinese man" instead of a "Chinaman".[14] He also agreed to remove the character's pigtail and the yellow coloring from the character's skin."

The book was pointing out how diverse Mulberry Street was in a dream. It wasn't saying anything derogatory about the person. It was showing how a child was enthralled by all the diversity of the world he dreamed about. The reality of Mulberry Street was that there was no Chinaman or Chinese Man. It was a boring street. The book was wishing the child could meet diverse people and see diverse things. So to me, taking it out signifies that we really just want to experience Mulberry Street as it really was.

The man wrote a book about all the places you could go. All the houses you could live in. He wrote about Sneetches and accepting everyone regardless of the look of your skin. He definitely appreciated cultures. It's all ridiculous.

The issue isn't the wish for diversity, it is the characatures that propagate falsehoods about a race or group of people.

Interesting way to *out it. How many characatures have been propagated on this thread by people who agree with you and against what group of people?

*put it.

Sorry -- what is wrong with this? Do people in China not use chopsticks? The person is in traditional Chinese clothes for southern china.

It's a charactature of a Chinese person using stereotypical eating implements, therefore racist. It's really that simple, take it or leave it, but a lot of people will get offended if you don't agree.

It’s not racist. Stop making stuff up.

I'm just telling what they are all saying. They are making it up not me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Mom! Why doesn’t that man with the slanty eyes eat with sticks and wear a pointy hat?” “Is he one of those helpers from a country with a name I can’t pronounce?” Omg 😱 Yikes.

This is why i would have made the decision not to publish it anymore, if it were my decision. This is what kids do with stereotypes. Wise decision. Also, imagine being a Kindergarten teacher and reading these books to a class with kids from mixed backgrounds. Ugh.

The Asians of this country are kicking the white man's butt in college and work. Not sure what you mean by helpers. More like, wow, that's really cool. I want to be like the Chinese. Can we eat with chopsticks? That's how it would go down in our house.

Translation: Me any my family are not offended, therefore, nobody should be offended.

No, if we are looking at current society, in what area of America are Asians seen as merely "helpers"? Jews and Asians are doing just fine in America to the point where people are being racist against them to help bring up the black and Hispanic population. Also, there is nothing in this image that depicts them as helpers.

You just keep proving my point, dude. You are not offended, and you don't think anyone else should be offended. You have nothing to add to the conversation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OR OP your opinion is just in the minority. Why do you care that people disagree with you, so much so that a publisher decides it also disagrees with you? What harm do you think is being perpetrated here? Really. I want to know. What is it you fear is being lost? There are better books in the catalogue that don’t have the same problems. No one is cancelling Seuss.

Oh, my opinion is definitely in the minority. It's an even smaller minority than you think. That's why you all keep taking wrong guesses and wonder what it "really" is. I could try to tell you, but you probably won't like it. Want me to try anyway? If you don't get it you don't, but will you think I'm idiot because you don't get it, or admit that other people might have a valid opinion too.

You made your opinion clear many times. You don’t see a problem with the books. There’s no guessing going on here.

You didn’t answer my question.

The harm is that in using a subjective standard that favors some people over others, those who are disadvantaged by this in some way also suffer a type of "harm." You call yourself empathetic because you extend your empathy to certain races. But you don't extend your empathy to others whom you disagree with. This harmful to them and they are telling you so. You think the harm to them doesn't count. It is your right to think that. I think that's wrong. Sorry I have empathy for people who don't count. It apparently makes me a bad person. I'm okay with that.

Harmful to whom and how, do tell.

The only harm that has ever been shown is completely subjective. Some people say they are offended. That's it. So we privilege their offense because it's racial. Other people say they are offended by no longer keeping it in print. But we think only a racist would think that, so we tell them aren't "harmed" even though it's no more or less subjective than the supposed offense.

This is hard to talk about because terms like "harm" and "offensive" are so subjective, that we end up talking about what those words mean more than the fact that all of these things are totally subjective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Mom! Why doesn’t that man with the slanty eyes eat with sticks and wear a pointy hat?” “Is he one of those helpers from a country with a name I can’t pronounce?” Omg 😱 Yikes.

This is why i would have made the decision not to publish it anymore, if it were my decision. This is what kids do with stereotypes. Wise decision. Also, imagine being a Kindergarten teacher and reading these books to a class with kids from mixed backgrounds. Ugh.

The Asians of this country are kicking the white man's butt in college and work. Not sure what you mean by helpers. More like, wow, that's really cool. I want to be like the Chinese. Can we eat with chopsticks? That's how it would go down in our house.

Translation: Me any my family are not offended, therefore, nobody should be offended.

No, if we are looking at current society, in what area of America are Asians seen as merely "helpers"? Jews and Asians are doing just fine in America to the point where people are being racist against them to help bring up the black and Hispanic population. Also, there is nothing in this image that depicts them as helpers.

You just keep proving my point, dude. You are not offended, and you don't think anyone else should be offended. You have nothing to add to the conversation.

DP. It's only offensive if someone says so. Fine let them say so. Is mere offense really harm?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Mom! Why doesn’t that man with the slanty eyes eat with sticks and wear a pointy hat?” “Is he one of those helpers from a country with a name I can’t pronounce?” Omg 😱 Yikes.

This is why i would have made the decision not to publish it anymore, if it were my decision. This is what kids do with stereotypes. Wise decision. Also, imagine being a Kindergarten teacher and reading these books to a class with kids from mixed backgrounds. Ugh.

The Asians of this country are kicking the white man's butt in college and work. Not sure what you mean by helpers. More like, wow, that's really cool. I want to be like the Chinese. Can we eat with chopsticks? That's how it would go down in our house.

Translation: Me any my family are not offended, therefore, nobody should be offended.

No, if we are looking at current society, in what area of America are Asians seen as merely "helpers"? Jews and Asians are doing just fine in America to the point where people are being racist against them to help bring up the black and Hispanic population. Also, there is nothing in this image that depicts them as helpers.

You just keep proving my point, dude. You are not offended, and you don't think anyone else should be offended. You have nothing to add to the conversation.

DP. It's only offensive if someone says so. Fine let them say so. Is mere offense really harm?

Maybe, maybe not. But if someone says that what I'm doing is offensive, I'll do some reflection and reconsider what I'm doing, because I'm not an asshole.