USC and Columbia Protests

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I recently spoke to a lawyer whose firm represents a number of universities, etc., and long story short: antisemitism on college campuses has been a thing since before October 7 and students with Islamic extremist tendencies are typically but not always involved. The lawyer’s exact words: “what we are seeing in the news this week is nothing compared to what’s been quietly happening for the last few years.”

So, we have antisemitism but what’s the word for Americans supporting Gazans who are being bullied and shamed relentlessly by Zionists??? God forbid if someone opens their mouth to criticize Israel, so are well all supposed to take a pledge of allegiance to Israel? See, money can buy you power but it cannot win public sentiment and in the long run public sentiment is what determines if the powerful remain that way.

I’m wondering if you are capable of stepping back to see the bigger, far more complex picture…or if you are only able to hyperfixate on Gaza?

Literally everyone recognizes the tragic suffering in Gaza. Everyone. Even Israelis.

But the situation pre-October 7 and post-October 7 is far more complex than the overly simplified messaging.

We are dealing with multiple countries sucked into a very serious powder keg: Western values vs Anti-western values.

If you are posting on dcum, you enjoy western values.

What’s unclear is how this will end.

I think the West is hoping to move the needle rather than just maintain status quo.

If you can’t recognize the complexity of the big picture…sigh.

That's not at issue. What is is whether people are willing to tolerate it or not?

Many are. There was a poster upthread who said "Israel has no choice." There is always a choice.

Sure, the choice is back off and let Gaza be rebuilt and allow Iran’s weapon and western humanitarian aid dollars to prop up Hamas so they can attack again…because they are committed to death to Israel, death to America, and death to the West…OR the West can let Israel try to end this 100+ year war for good.

I mean, even the Saudis are tired of this medieval faux-religious tribal nonsense, so you know it’s bad.

If you fail to recognize the complexity of the situation and can only see it through an overly simple metric of “stop the killing” then you really need to find unbiased policy analysts to educate yourself.

Again: nobody wants this. But someone needs to manage Iran and their proxies. This is so much bigger than Israel and Gaza.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I recently spoke to a lawyer whose firm represents a number of universities, etc., and long story short: antisemitism on college campuses has been a thing since before October 7 and students with Islamic extremist tendencies are typically but not always involved. The lawyer’s exact words: “what we are seeing in the news this week is nothing compared to what’s been quietly happening for the last few years.”

So, we have antisemitism but what’s the word for Americans supporting Gazans who are being bullied and shamed relentlessly by Zionists??? God forbid if someone opens their mouth to criticize Israel, so are well all supposed to take a pledge of allegiance to Israel? See, money can buy you power but it cannot win public sentiment and in the long run public sentiment is what determines if the powerful remain that way.

I’m wondering if you are capable of stepping back to see the bigger, far more complex picture…or if you are only able to hyperfixate on Gaza?

Literally everyone recognizes the tragic suffering in Gaza. Everyone. Even Israelis.

But the situation pre-October 7 and post-October 7 is far more complex than the overly simplified messaging.

We are dealing with multiple countries sucked into a very serious powder keg: Western values vs Anti-western values.

If you are posting on dcum, you enjoy western values.

What’s unclear is how this will end.

I think the West is hoping to move the needle rather than just maintain status quo.

If you can’t recognize the complexity of the big picture…sigh.

What are these "Western values" of which you speak? Does it include supplying weapons to aid genocide? Does it include rolling back women's rights to accommodate men? Does it include getting rid of abortion rights, killing millions of people since WWII, invading countries for oil? Please, I would love to know about these values you hold so dear.

But you love America, right?

And the far left wonders why they can't win anything in the US?

You ascribing values to a country is stupid. It's why people are shocked that a "democracy" like Israel is committing genocide. Clearly these "Western values" don't mean anything.

And THAT is why we can't be friends.

Western values are the cornerstone of the modern world, which afford the highest and best quality of life in the history of humankind.

The problem is not the lack of values or the content of those values, it's that they are too often ignored (including by the US).

What are these western values?

[Anonymous]

And yet the NPR piece I heard this morning, detailing the horrific losses of some families in Gaza, didn't even mention Hamas walking out of ceasefire negotiations, over and over.

Killing civilians has nothing to do with Hamas. Its just like when you all killed American World Central Kitchen aid workers. It had nothing to do with Hamas. You want to inflict as much pain, suffering and terror as possible on the Palestinians civilians. This is why you prioritize targeting all the healthcare facilities in Gaza.

Israel does not want a ceasefire and Biden would never pressure them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I recently spoke to a lawyer whose firm represents a number of universities, etc., and long story short: antisemitism on college campuses has been a thing since before October 7 and students with Islamic extremist tendencies are typically but not always involved. The lawyer’s exact words: “what we are seeing in the news this week is nothing compared to what’s been quietly happening for the last few years.”

So, we have antisemitism but what’s the word for Americans supporting Gazans who are being bullied and shamed relentlessly by Zionists??? God forbid if someone opens their mouth to criticize Israel, so are well all supposed to take a pledge of allegiance to Israel? See, money can buy you power but it cannot win public sentiment and in the long run public sentiment is what determines if the powerful remain that way.

I’m wondering if you are capable of stepping back to see the bigger, far more complex picture…or if you are only able to hyperfixate on Gaza?

Literally everyone recognizes the tragic suffering in Gaza. Everyone. Even Israelis.

But the situation pre-October 7 and post-October 7 is far more complex than the overly simplified messaging.

We are dealing with multiple countries sucked into a very serious powder keg: Western values vs Anti-western values.

If you are posting on dcum, you enjoy western values.

What’s unclear is how this will end.

I think the West is hoping to move the needle rather than just maintain status quo.

If you can’t recognize the complexity of the big picture…sigh.

People are hyper fixated on Gaza because it’s life or death right now. There’s needless killing of civilians right now s it’s a priority.

The hyper fixation is from TikTok. There were no progressive encampments or riots when Russia broke the Syrian opposition forces by wiping out entire cities with indiscriminate artillery barrages. If Israel wanted to commit genocide, then Gaza would already be gone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The UN's human rights chief has said he is "horrified" by the destruction of Gaza's Nasser and al-Shifa hospitals and the reports of "mass graves" being found at the sites after Israeli raids.
Volker Türk called for independent investigations into the deaths.
Palestinian officials said they had exhumed 283 bodies at Nasser, some with their hands tied. It is not clear how they died or when they were buried.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68881325

Looks like the work of death squads. It is interesting that the IDF is now conducting major raids in north Gaza and ordering people to leave. Wonder what the IDF is hiding there?

So long as Israel bans journalists, these atrocities will go unnoticed. Restriction of freedom of the press is a bad, bad sign.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What you don't get PP is that Israel is wrong for reacting to Hamas. What Hamas did was terrible. What Israel is doing currently is terrible if not worse because they are purposefully going after innocent people to punish guilty parties. Do you get that?

You all defenders of Israel's policy currently use the defense of revenge against Hamas actions and/or they aren't surrendering/doing what Israel asks/being nice and negotiating the way Israel wants. What you all fail to take into account is that Israel has free will. They can be a good or bad actor in this scenario. What they've chosen to do is to be just as bad if not worse than Hamas because you assume that the good actors know the difference between right and wrong.

If you know better and don't do better (good guys who act like bad guys), you are worse than those who don't do better because they just don't know better (bad guys). There IS NO EXCUSE - none. Even if 1/2 their population got decimated - for Israel to wage war against innocent civilians. ZERO excuse whatosover. You can say everything about how evil Hamas is but the actions Israel are taking currently is free will.

The appropriate response is of course to find the responsible bad guys and get them to stop and get justice.

The appropriate response is NOT to drop bombs and kill everyone of the same nationality as the bad guys, hoping that you'll kill enough bad guys because you're killing everyone who is that nationality, including any innocents. And even if you do - 34k of those people are kind of enough no? So if you killed 5k bad guys, is it worth the other 29k innocents dying? According to your logic it is, is this what good guys do or bad guys do?



So, just to be sure I understand: when a terrorist group invades your country, rapes, slaughters, and kidnaps your citizens, refuses to release the hostages, promises that this one invasion is just the beginning - you're supposed to, what, drink a cup of tea and see what's on TV? That's the appropriate response?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

And yet the NPR piece I heard this morning, detailing the horrific losses of some families in Gaza, didn't even mention Hamas walking out of ceasefire negotiations, over and over.

Killing civilians has nothing to do with Hamas. Its just like when you all killed American World Central Kitchen aid workers. It had nothing to do with Hamas. You want to inflict as much pain, suffering and terror as possible on the Palestinians civilians. This is why you prioritize targeting all the healthcare facilities in Gaza.

Israel does not want a ceasefire and Biden would never pressure them.

You sure are confident for someone who learned everything they know from one illiterate tiktok video

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I recently spoke to a lawyer whose firm represents a number of universities, etc., and long story short: antisemitism on college campuses has been a thing since before October 7 and students with Islamic extremist tendencies are typically but not always involved. The lawyer’s exact words: “what we are seeing in the news this week is nothing compared to what’s been quietly happening for the last few years.”

So, we have antisemitism but what’s the word for Americans supporting Gazans who are being bullied and shamed relentlessly by Zionists??? God forbid if someone opens their mouth to criticize Israel, so are well all supposed to take a pledge of allegiance to Israel? See, money can buy you power but it cannot win public sentiment and in the long run public sentiment is what determines if the powerful remain that way.

I’m wondering if you are capable of stepping back to see the bigger, far more complex picture…or if you are only able to hyperfixate on Gaza?

Literally everyone recognizes the tragic suffering in Gaza. Everyone. Even Israelis.

But the situation pre-October 7 and post-October 7 is far more complex than the overly simplified messaging.

We are dealing with multiple countries sucked into a very serious powder keg: Western values vs Anti-western values.

If you are posting on dcum, you enjoy western values.

What’s unclear is how this will end.

I think the West is hoping to move the needle rather than just maintain status quo.

If you can’t recognize the complexity of the big picture…sigh.

People are hyper fixated on Gaza because it’s life or death right now. There’s needless killing of civilians right now s it’s a priority.

The hyper fixation is from TikTok. There were no progressive encampments or riots when Russia broke the Syrian opposition forces by wiping out entire cities with indiscriminate artillery barrages. If Israel wanted to commit genocide, then Gaza would already be gone.

Russia didn't use US weapons to commit mass murder. Both are wrong, but we are complicit in Israel's crimes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I recently spoke to a lawyer whose firm represents a number of universities, etc., and long story short: antisemitism on college campuses has been a thing since before October 7 and students with Islamic extremist tendencies are typically but not always involved. The lawyer’s exact words: “what we are seeing in the news this week is nothing compared to what’s been quietly happening for the last few years.”

So, we have antisemitism but what’s the word for Americans supporting Gazans who are being bullied and shamed relentlessly by Zionists??? God forbid if someone opens their mouth to criticize Israel, so are well all supposed to take a pledge of allegiance to Israel? See, money can buy you power but it cannot win public sentiment and in the long run public sentiment is what determines if the powerful remain that way.

I’m wondering if you are capable of stepping back to see the bigger, far more complex picture…or if you are only able to hyperfixate on Gaza?

Literally everyone recognizes the tragic suffering in Gaza. Everyone. Even Israelis.

But the situation pre-October 7 and post-October 7 is far more complex than the overly simplified messaging.

We are dealing with multiple countries sucked into a very serious powder keg: Western values vs Anti-western values.

If you are posting on dcum, you enjoy western values.

What’s unclear is how this will end.

I think the West is hoping to move the needle rather than just maintain status quo.

If you can’t recognize the complexity of the big picture…sigh.

What are these "Western values" of which you speak? Does it include supplying weapons to aid genocide? Does it include rolling back women's rights to accommodate men? Does it include getting rid of abortion rights, killing millions of people since WWII, invading countries for oil? Please, I would love to know about these values you hold so dear.

Oy vey.

Think of it this way: if you live in America and can fritter away your time posting on dcum, then you are enjoying western values.

Similarly, if you are able to leave your house unchaperoned in a tank top with exposed hair…

Or if you don’t need to worry about being stoned or enduring an honor killing or being thrown off a building for who love…

Or if you recognize the rule of law…

Or benefit from capitalism…

Or enjoy public education…

Etc.

Is our democracy perfect? No. But it has the ability to evolve.

If you think life is better under a religious totalitarian regime, then I am not interested in helping you get up to speed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What you don't get PP is that Israel is wrong for reacting to Hamas. What Hamas did was terrible. What Israel is doing currently is terrible if not worse because they are purposefully going after innocent people to punish guilty parties. Do you get that?

You all defenders of Israel's policy currently use the defense of revenge against Hamas actions and/or they aren't surrendering/doing what Israel asks/being nice and negotiating the way Israel wants. What you all fail to take into account is that Israel has free will. They can be a good or bad actor in this scenario. What they've chosen to do is to be just as bad if not worse than Hamas because you assume that the good actors know the difference between right and wrong.

If you know better and don't do better (good guys who act like bad guys), you are worse than those who don't do better because they just don't know better (bad guys). There IS NO EXCUSE - none. Even if 1/2 their population got decimated - for Israel to wage war against innocent civilians. ZERO excuse whatosover. You can say everything about how evil Hamas is but the actions Israel are taking currently is free will.

The appropriate response is of course to find the responsible bad guys and get them to stop and get justice.

The appropriate response is NOT to drop bombs and kill everyone of the same nationality as the bad guys, hoping that you'll kill enough bad guys because you're killing everyone who is that nationality, including any innocents. And even if you do - 34k of those people are kind of enough no? So if you killed 5k bad guys, is it worth the other 29k innocents dying? According to your logic it is, is this what good guys do or bad guys do?



So, just to be sure I understand: when a terrorist group invades your country, rapes, slaughters, and kidnaps your citizens, refuses to release the hostages, promises that this one invasion is just the beginning - you're supposed to, what, drink a cup of tea and see what's on TV? That's the appropriate response?

"Find the responsible bad guys" - man, where were you when this was getting started. Wow, the whole course of human history would be so different if only people listened to you.

You're not going to find me gung ho about how Israel has prosecuted this war - and you won't find many Israelis happy about it either. But I'm sorry, when you say things like this, you just sound - like someone who doesn't know fk all about fk all. You are so lucky to live in a peaceful land - you probably weren't even alive yet when 9/11 happened.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Protestors:

If orga and schools continue to say "no" to your demands, what's next? Remember, they have the option to say "no" in reality.

Actually, this applies to the U.S. govt. If the U.S. govt continues to say "no", what are you going to do?

Sure but protests like these can impact public perception and effect change. Look at the anti Anti Vietnam protests and SA disinvestment.

Instead of scoffing at these protesters why don’t you look at why they feel so strongly. Maybe there is something there. Of course it’s easier to write them off as idiots…

So I need to do what they say because they are angry--no I will not cower to mob rule

Goodness no, you must not listen to bright citizens of this country. You must take directives from the government of a foreign country.

RIP Biden. I’m GenX and am appalled. Beyond the pale.

If you’re Gen X, you know better than to accept a social media post at face value.

C’mon.

Well, I googled it and was surprised to find that 13 states sued the Biden administration due to the FBI spying on parents protesting school boards in 2022. Also, with his far-reaching FISA surveillance renewal days ago, it seems likely. Also, UConn reported that was it was happening on the campus in Nov.

So, my statement stands.

So, you’re guessing, but are willing to make sweeping conclusions when you don’t know the facts.

No offense, but that’s just silly. Far too much of that going on these days.

Also, as an FYI, the 13 states brought an FOIA case seeking documents about *potential* surveillance.

And the FISA renewal only applies to communications with foreign nationals.

They want to FOIA because it's presumed that the US was spying on them.

Also, re FISA, it is being abused.

"A 2023 report from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court found the FBI misused the law’s tool nearly 300,000 times between 2020 and early 2021, including the collection of information on Jan. 6 rioters and Black Lives Matter protesters. Earlier this month, Trump called on lawmakers to “kill” the legislation—which was briefly extended in December—and incorrectly said it was used to improperly spy on his campaign. The Justice Department previously determined the FBI improperly obtained two warrants to spy on a former aide to his campaign, though the warrants were obtained under a different section of FISA, Title I." https://www.forbes.com/sites/tylerroush/2024/04/20/biden-signs-foreign-surveillance-act-after-trumps-effort-to-kill-it/?sh=d15859b53b04

ACLU opposes it.

It's rich that you say I'm "guessing," when you are clearly burying your head and taking everything from big brother at face value. Might have to hand in that GenX card for not be skeptical enough.

So, again, you have presented no evidence whatsoever that current protesters' private communications are being surveilled.

But you nonetheless have concluded with 100% certainty that they are.

That would be the exact definition of "guessing".

As for the FOIA and FISA issues, I won't belabor the point, except to say that you're jumping to conclusions that the facts do not warrant. Again.

You said we weren't spying on Americans. And, there is proof that we did (provided above and from another source below). Yes, I'm willing to make the leap that because the US spied on BLM protesters (and likely parent protestors re school boards from a FBI whistleblower) that it is very likely the US is now spying on US student protesters who want a ceasefire/divestment. Especially given the timing of FISA, and again, the proof that it was used to spy on Americans. UConn reported in Nov that there was surveillance of protestors.

"Criticism of the 702 program largely stems from revelations of abuse in a declassified court filing from 2022, which describes rampant misuse of the 702 database by the FBI. Investigators at the bureau have been caught unlawfully scouring 702 data for information on American protesters, journalists, and political donors. On at least one occasion, an FBI analyst worked to access the communications of a sitting member of Congress.

https://www.wired.com/story/section-702-reauthorization-expansion/#:~:text=Investigators%20at%20the%20bureau%20have,a%20sitting%20member%20of%20Congress.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I recently spoke to a lawyer whose firm represents a number of universities, etc., and long story short: antisemitism on college campuses has been a thing since before October 7 and students with Islamic extremist tendencies are typically but not always involved. The lawyer’s exact words: “what we are seeing in the news this week is nothing compared to what’s been quietly happening for the last few years.”

So, we have antisemitism but what’s the word for Americans supporting Gazans who are being bullied and shamed relentlessly by Zionists??? God forbid if someone opens their mouth to criticize Israel, so are well all supposed to take a pledge of allegiance to Israel? See, money can buy you power but it cannot win public sentiment and in the long run public sentiment is what determines if the powerful remain that way.

I’m wondering if you are capable of stepping back to see the bigger, far more complex picture…or if you are only able to hyperfixate on Gaza?

Literally everyone recognizes the tragic suffering in Gaza. Everyone. Even Israelis.

But the situation pre-October 7 and post-October 7 is far more complex than the overly simplified messaging.

We are dealing with multiple countries sucked into a very serious powder keg: Western values vs Anti-western values.

If you are posting on dcum, you enjoy western values.

What’s unclear is how this will end.

I think the West is hoping to move the needle rather than just maintain status quo.

If you can’t recognize the complexity of the big picture…sigh.

What are these "Western values" of which you speak? Does it include supplying weapons to aid genocide? Does it include rolling back women's rights to accommodate men? Does it include getting rid of abortion rights, killing millions of people since WWII, invading countries for oil? Please, I would love to know about these values you hold so dear.

But you love America, right?

And the far left wonders why they can't win anything in the US?

You ascribing values to a country is stupid. It's why people are shocked that a "democracy" like Israel is committing genocide. Clearly these "Western values" don't mean anything.

And THAT is why we can't be friends.

Western values are the cornerstone of the modern world, which afford the highest and best quality of life in the history of humankind.

The problem is not the lack of values or the content of those values, it's that they are too often ignored (including by the US).

What are these western values?

Codified individual rights most important by far.

Funnily enough, what Israel is doing in Gaza is entirely allowable (even expected) under traditional value systems. (Ask the victims of the Comanches, to name but one example out of a million).

The entire argument here is about whether Israel is living up to modern western values.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From The Atlantic: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/04/columbia-university-protests-palestine/678159/?gift=mg7b1AqRHrzgE279scHT_JqGAaK-cEdHC33cpDj0ano&utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share

The Unreality of Columbia’s ‘Liberated Zone’
What happens when genuine sympathy for civilian suffering mixes with a fervor that borders on the oppressive?

By Michael Powell

"students chanting like automatons"

"Repeat after me,” he says, and 100 protesters dutifully repeat: “I’m bored! We would like you to leave!”

"Upon entering the zone, I was instructed to listen as a gatekeeper read community guidelines that included not talking with people not authorized to be inside—a category that seemed to include anyone of differing opinions. "

"The prevailing tone tends toward late-stage Frantz Fanon: much talk of revolution and purging oneself of bourgeois affectation. "

Reading this article, I am struck by how absolutely stupid these kids sound. I don't care what they are protesting, they just sound stupid. I didn't grow up here, did college protests in bygone eras sound so asinine? And how do I make sure my kids do not become this dumb?

Really, I found the journalist really biased. God forbid someone want to divest after "the death toll has grown"*:

"As the war has raged on and the death toll has grown, protest rallies on American campuses have morphed into a campaign of ever grander and more elaborate ambitions: From “Cease-fire now” to the categorical claim that Israel is guilty of genocide and war crimes to demands that Columbia divest from Israeli companies and any American company selling arms to the Jewish state."

And, you don't find it troubling that professors are telling Jewish students to leave for their safety when the protestors held a Shabbat dinner and were planning a Passover seder?

Finally, why should the protestors want to talk to a journalist who is so clearly patronizing?

(*grown = 35k deaths in 6 mo + Israeli soldier casualties in the hundreds)

It's pretty funny/pathetic/stupid for anti-Israel protesters to have a seder...

Are you a total idiot? There are Jewish protestors.

https://www.nbcnews.com/video/jewish-student-protesters-say-antisemitism-is-being-weaponized-against-them-209582661809

So filled with hate you can't even recognize the many Jewish students who are protesting.

Huh? That's literally what I said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I recently spoke to a lawyer whose firm represents a number of universities, etc., and long story short: antisemitism on college campuses has been a thing since before October 7 and students with Islamic extremist tendencies are typically but not always involved. The lawyer’s exact words: “what we are seeing in the news this week is nothing compared to what’s been quietly happening for the last few years.”

So, we have antisemitism but what’s the word for Americans supporting Gazans who are being bullied and shamed relentlessly by Zionists??? God forbid if someone opens their mouth to criticize Israel, so are well all supposed to take a pledge of allegiance to Israel? See, money can buy you power but it cannot win public sentiment and in the long run public sentiment is what determines if the powerful remain that way.

I’m wondering if you are capable of stepping back to see the bigger, far more complex picture…or if you are only able to hyperfixate on Gaza?

Literally everyone recognizes the tragic suffering in Gaza. Everyone. Even Israelis.

But the situation pre-October 7 and post-October 7 is far more complex than the overly simplified messaging.

We are dealing with multiple countries sucked into a very serious powder keg: Western values vs Anti-western values.

If you are posting on dcum, you enjoy western values.

What’s unclear is how this will end.

I think the West is hoping to move the needle rather than just maintain status quo.

If you can’t recognize the complexity of the big picture…sigh.

That's not at issue. What is is whether people are willing to tolerate it or not?

Many are. There was a poster upthread who said "Israel has no choice." There is always a choice.

Sure, the choice is back off and let Gaza be rebuilt and allow Iran’s weapon and western humanitarian aid dollars to prop up Hamas so they can attack again…because they are committed to death to Israel, death to America, and death to the West…OR the West can let Israel try to end this 100+ year war for good.

I mean, even the Saudis are tired of this medieval faux-religious tribal nonsense, so you know it’s bad.

If you fail to recognize the complexity of the situation and can only see it through an overly simple metric of “stop the killing” then you really need to find unbiased policy analysts to educate yourself.

Again: nobody wants this. But someone needs to manage Iran and their proxies. This is so much bigger than Israel and Gaza.

No it is not. This is all about the treatment of the Palestinians by Israel over the past 75 years. Solve that and the whole region stabilizes.

Iran is just the latest in a long line of Israeli bogeyman. Before that it was Iraq, Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, etc, etc. If Iran is destroyed by Israel there will be another country that Israel will scream for the US to destroy. Notice how it is perfectly fine for Israel to demand to destruction or elimination of every other country and people?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I recently spoke to a lawyer whose firm represents a number of universities, etc., and long story short: antisemitism on college campuses has been a thing since before October 7 and students with Islamic extremist tendencies are typically but not always involved. The lawyer’s exact words: “what we are seeing in the news this week is nothing compared to what’s been quietly happening for the last few years.”

So, we have antisemitism but what’s the word for Americans supporting Gazans who are being bullied and shamed relentlessly by Zionists??? God forbid if someone opens their mouth to criticize Israel, so are well all supposed to take a pledge of allegiance to Israel? See, money can buy you power but it cannot win public sentiment and in the long run public sentiment is what determines if the powerful remain that way.

I’m wondering if you are capable of stepping back to see the bigger, far more complex picture…or if you are only able to hyperfixate on Gaza?

Literally everyone recognizes the tragic suffering in Gaza. Everyone. Even Israelis.

But the situation pre-October 7 and post-October 7 is far more complex than the overly simplified messaging.

We are dealing with multiple countries sucked into a very serious powder keg: Western values vs Anti-western values.

If you are posting on dcum, you enjoy western values.

What’s unclear is how this will end.

I think the West is hoping to move the needle rather than just maintain status quo.

If you can’t recognize the complexity of the big picture…sigh.

That's not at issue. What is is whether people are willing to tolerate it or not?

Many are. There was a poster upthread who said "Israel has no choice." There is always a choice.

Sure, the choice is back off and let Gaza be rebuilt and allow Iran’s weapon and western humanitarian aid dollars to prop up Hamas so they can attack again…because they are committed to death to Israel, death to America, and death to the West…OR the West can let Israel try to end this 100+ year war for good.

I mean, even the Saudis are tired of this medieval faux-religious tribal nonsense, so you know it’s bad.

If you fail to recognize the complexity of the situation and can only see it through an overly simple metric of “stop the killing” then you really need to find unbiased policy analysts to educate yourself.

Again: nobody wants this. But someone needs to manage Iran and their proxies. This is so much bigger than Israel and Gaza.

No it is not. This is all about the treatment of the Palestinians by Israel over the past 75 years. Solve that and the whole region stabilizes.

Iran is just the latest in a long line of Israeli bogeyman. Before that it was Iraq, Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, etc, etc. If Iran is destroyed by Israel there will be another country that Israel will scream for the US to destroy. Notice how it is perfectly fine for Israel to demand to destruction or elimination of every other country and people?

You're an Iran fan? I guess you are unaware of what they do to people there. The people of Iran don't even want the current regime. While the little Columbia fools were having their camp out with empty requests and vile pro-terror chants, Congress passed the MAHSA Act. Maybe look up what that's about and who it's named after.