Teachers Resigning Like Crazy?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:For me it’s not about the inability to pee on my schedule. It’s about how my district and my administration tells the teachers that the reason we have a racial achievement gap is our implicit biases. That if we just tried harder then our students would all have exactly the same outcomes regardless of their hugely different home experiences and innate abilities.

This would piss me off too, but the fact that you’re attributing at least part of the racial achievement gap to these students’ innate abilities suggests that you do have a lot of implicit bias. You’re making it sound like you believe that different races have different innate abilities.

I do think that regardless of your biases, you and other teachers aren’t responsible for fixing the racial achievement gap. That’s ridiculous. But just beware that the language you use might make the admin think that they are onto something.

I’m that pp and here’s the reality in my school community. The white kids are primarily the children of upper middle class college-educated professionals. The Hispanic kids are primarily the children of non-college or high school educated blue collar workers, construction, housecleaning, etc. This is the society we live in right now in my area. People who drop out of high school generally have lesser innate academic abilities than people who graduate from college.

Okay but if you don’t want to sound biased need to avoid saying the *racial* achievement gap has something to do with any kind of innate ability. If you say it does, then you’re saying that some races are just born with more innate abilities, academic or otherwise. Im sure you recognize that this line of thinking is racist. You have to recognize that the reason that lower class workers are disproportionately POC is because of racist societal structures and not because there were born with fewer abilities than white people.

I didn't get PP said race was the reason for the achievement gap but, rather, the economic situation of the parents. This has a disparate effect or is more visible in various races. But PP wasn't saying white = smart, other races = not.

Right I do get what she’s trying to say, but everybody should honestly avoid suggesting the radial achievement gap has something to do with innate abilities. At a minimum, it’s not a necessary argument because in PP’s case it’s not the teachers who are causing the gap, implicit bias or no.

Again, I didn't read it as "innate" abilities but rather what was being seen in high/low economic groups (and race groups as a proxy for SES). Lower SES has less advantages available (tutoring, having to work, having to watch siblings) that impact school (I was that lower SES growing up, but white). The argument some make is that the teachers don't cause the gap - which I agree- but should do more to close that gap (I'm not sure where I come out on that given the variety of challenges in the schools).

Ok, I’m the one who wrote “innate” and it has derailed the conversation a little bit. I don’t mean biologically or racially innate. But I mean that their aptitude is affected by a ton of things that we at school have absolutely no control over, and then we are evaluated based on whether we have magically overcome all of that, and when we have not we are told once more that we have implicit biases and that is the reason for the persistent gap.

I was more sympathetic until your last clause, because I think that is likely a glib misrepresentation. You likely do have a ton of biases that impact how you interact with students that shape your expectations, strategies etc. We all do. Someone can evaluate you and reasonably ask you to work on that without saying that you are going to magically overcome all society's inequities by doing so. You sound defensive on that point to me.

This is not an individual evaluation I’m talking about. This is a staff meeting — actually about once a quarter — where we all look at all the student test score data and then we look at graphs breaking it down by race, and when we inevitably notice that there is a racial disparity, our meeting transitions into a professional development on implicit bias and antiracism. I’ve had three of these staff meetings so far this year.

Well, addressing bias is the one thing you CAN do to improve outcomes. You don't have control over anything else, so of course that's going to be what comes up. That's what you can do. But earlier you mentioned that it's a big class difference associated with race/ethnicity--so why are you not talking about that more in those meetings? What strategies are you posing to support differences associated with differences in economic and educational resources in the home.
Also, I think you mentioned you work in an environment that is predominately White professional and Hispanic working class. If that's the case, you're talking about ethnicity differences not racial differences, unless you're talking about gaps in racial differences within the Hispanic population. Just sort of gets me worried about your level of insight into your students and their families if you have that base level confusion about race/ethnicity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For me it’s not about the inability to pee on my schedule. It’s about how my district and my administration tells the teachers that the reason we have a racial achievement gap is our implicit biases. That if we just tried harder then our students would all have exactly the same outcomes regardless of their hugely different home experiences and innate abilities.

This would piss me off too, but the fact that you’re attributing at least part of the racial achievement gap to these students’ innate abilities suggests that you do have a lot of implicit bias. You’re making it sound like you believe that different races have different innate abilities.

I do think that regardless of your biases, you and other teachers aren’t responsible for fixing the racial achievement gap. That’s ridiculous. But just beware that the language you use might make the admin think that they are onto something.

I’m that pp and here’s the reality in my school community. The white kids are primarily the children of upper middle class college-educated professionals. The Hispanic kids are primarily the children of non-college or high school educated blue collar workers, construction, housecleaning, etc. This is the society we live in right now in my area. People who drop out of high school generally have lesser innate academic abilities than people who graduate from college.

Okay but if you don’t want to sound biased need to avoid saying the *racial* achievement gap has something to do with any kind of innate ability. If you say it does, then you’re saying that some races are just born with more innate abilities, academic or otherwise. Im sure you recognize that this line of thinking is racist. You have to recognize that the reason that lower class workers are disproportionately POC is because of racist societal structures and not because there were born with fewer abilities than white people.

I didn't get PP said race was the reason for the achievement gap but, rather, the economic situation of the parents. This has a disparate effect or is more visible in various races. But PP wasn't saying white = smart, other races = not.

Right I do get what she’s trying to say, but everybody should honestly avoid suggesting the radial achievement gap has something to do with innate abilities. At a minimum, it’s not a necessary argument because in PP’s case it’s not the teachers who are causing the gap, implicit bias or no.

Again, I didn't read it as "innate" abilities but rather what was being seen in high/low economic groups (and race groups as a proxy for SES). Lower SES has less advantages available (tutoring, having to work, having to watch siblings) that impact school (I was that lower SES growing up, but white). The argument some make is that the teachers don't cause the gap - which I agree- but should do more to close that gap (I'm not sure where I come out on that given the variety of challenges in the schools).

Ok, I’m the one who wrote “innate” and it has derailed the conversation a little bit. I don’t mean biologically or racially innate. But I mean that their aptitude is affected by a ton of things that we at school have absolutely no control over, and then we are evaluated based on whether we have magically overcome all of that, and when we have not we are told once more that we have implicit biases and that is the reason for the persistent gap.

I was more sympathetic until your last clause, because I think that is likely a glib misrepresentation. You likely do have a ton of biases that impact how you interact with students that shape your expectations, strategies etc. We all do. Someone can evaluate you and reasonably ask you to work on that without saying that you are going to magically overcome all society's inequities by doing so. You sound defensive on that point to me.

This is not an individual evaluation I’m talking about. This is a staff meeting — actually about once a quarter — where we all look at all the student test score data and then we look at graphs breaking it down by race, and when we inevitably notice that there is a racial disparity, our meeting transitions into a professional development on implicit bias and antiracism. I’ve had three of these staff meetings so far this year.

I'm the PP who called out the innate comment and I do want to reiterate that I think you have an absolutely valid point. The cause of the racial achievement gap is multi-faceted and a lot of people are pointing to schools as the solution because we already have that infrastructure, but if a child is doing poorly because of food insecurity, generational trauma, poverty, housing insecurity, etc., no amount of implicit bias training can address those issues. Those are societal issues that teachers cannot fix. To ignore those issues when examining the racial achievement gap and instead put the microscope on a teacher's implicit bias really misses the mark and doesn't do anyone any good. Plus, teachers are spread too thin to meaningfully help any child and that exacerbates the achievement gap because the privileged kids will get outside help and resources to make up the difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For me it’s not about the inability to pee on my schedule. It’s about how my district and my administration tells the teachers that the reason we have a racial achievement gap is our implicit biases. That if we just tried harder then our students would all have exactly the same outcomes regardless of their hugely different home experiences and innate abilities.

This would piss me off too, but the fact that you’re attributing at least part of the racial achievement gap to these students’ innate abilities suggests that you do have a lot of implicit bias. You’re making it sound like you believe that different races have different innate abilities.

I do think that regardless of your biases, you and other teachers aren’t responsible for fixing the racial achievement gap. That’s ridiculous. But just beware that the language you use might make the admin think that they are onto something.

I’m that pp and here’s the reality in my school community. The white kids are primarily the children of upper middle class college-educated professionals. The Hispanic kids are primarily the children of non-college or high school educated blue collar workers, construction, housecleaning, etc. This is the society we live in right now in my area. People who drop out of high school generally have lesser innate academic abilities than people who graduate from college.

Okay but if you don’t want to sound biased need to avoid saying the *racial* achievement gap has something to do with any kind of innate ability. If you say it does, then you’re saying that some races are just born with more innate abilities, academic or otherwise. Im sure you recognize that this line of thinking is racist. You have to recognize that the reason that lower class workers are disproportionately POC is because of racist societal structures and not because there were born with fewer abilities than white people.

I didn't get PP said race was the reason for the achievement gap but, rather, the economic situation of the parents. This has a disparate effect or is more visible in various races. But PP wasn't saying white = smart, other races = not.

Right I do get what she’s trying to say, but everybody should honestly avoid suggesting the radial achievement gap has something to do with innate abilities. At a minimum, it’s not a necessary argument because in PP’s case it’s not the teachers who are causing the gap, implicit bias or no.

Again, I didn't read it as "innate" abilities but rather what was being seen in high/low economic groups (and race groups as a proxy for SES). Lower SES has less advantages available (tutoring, having to work, having to watch siblings) that impact school (I was that lower SES growing up, but white). The argument some make is that the teachers don't cause the gap - which I agree- but should do more to close that gap (I'm not sure where I come out on that given the variety of challenges in the schools).

Ok, I’m the one who wrote “innate” and it has derailed the conversation a little bit. I don’t mean biologically or racially innate. But I mean that their aptitude is affected by a ton of things that we at school have absolutely no control over, and then we are evaluated based on whether we have magically overcome all of that, and when we have not we are told once more that we have implicit biases and that is the reason for the persistent gap.

I was more sympathetic until your last clause, because I think that is likely a glib misrepresentation. You likely do have a ton of biases that impact how you interact with students that shape your expectations, strategies etc. We all do. Someone can evaluate you and reasonably ask you to work on that without saying that you are going to magically overcome all society's inequities by doing so. You sound defensive on that point to me.

This is not an individual evaluation I’m talking about. This is a staff meeting — actually about once a quarter — where we all look at all the student test score data and then we look at graphs breaking it down by race, and when we inevitably notice that there is a racial disparity, our meeting transitions into a professional development on implicit bias and antiracism. I’ve had three of these staff meetings so far this year.

I'm the PP who called out the innate comment and I do want to reiterate that I think you have an absolutely valid point. The cause of the racial achievement gap is multi-faceted and a lot of people are pointing to schools as the solution because we already have that infrastructure, but if a child is doing poorly because of food insecurity, generational trauma, poverty, housing insecurity, etc., no amount of implicit bias training can address those issues. Those are societal issues that teachers cannot fix. To ignore those issues when examining the racial achievement gap and instead put the microscope on a teacher's implicit bias really misses the mark and doesn't do anyone any good. Plus, teachers are spread too thin to meaningfully help any child and that exacerbates the achievement gap because the privileged kids will get outside help and resources to make up the difference.

The only thing that can overcome those issues is a determined parent(s).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For me it’s not about the inability to pee on my schedule. It’s about how my district and my administration tells the teachers that the reason we have a racial achievement gap is our implicit biases. That if we just tried harder then our students would all have exactly the same outcomes regardless of their hugely different home experiences and innate abilities.

This would piss me off too, but the fact that you’re attributing at least part of the racial achievement gap to these students’ innate abilities suggests that you do have a lot of implicit bias. You’re making it sound like you believe that different races have different innate abilities.

I do think that regardless of your biases, you and other teachers aren’t responsible for fixing the racial achievement gap. That’s ridiculous. But just beware that the language you use might make the admin think that they are onto something.

I’m that pp and here’s the reality in my school community. The white kids are primarily the children of upper middle class college-educated professionals. The Hispanic kids are primarily the children of non-college or high school educated blue collar workers, construction, housecleaning, etc. This is the society we live in right now in my area. People who drop out of high school generally have lesser innate academic abilities than people who graduate from college.

Okay but if you don’t want to sound biased need to avoid saying the *racial* achievement gap has something to do with any kind of innate ability. If you say it does, then you’re saying that some races are just born with more innate abilities, academic or otherwise. Im sure you recognize that this line of thinking is racist. You have to recognize that the reason that lower class workers are disproportionately POC is because of racist societal structures and not because there were born with fewer abilities than white people.

I didn't get PP said race was the reason for the achievement gap but, rather, the economic situation of the parents. This has a disparate effect or is more visible in various races. But PP wasn't saying white = smart, other races = not.

Right I do get what she’s trying to say, but everybody should honestly avoid suggesting the radial achievement gap has something to do with innate abilities. At a minimum, it’s not a necessary argument because in PP’s case it’s not the teachers who are causing the gap, implicit bias or no.

Again, I didn't read it as "innate" abilities but rather what was being seen in high/low economic groups (and race groups as a proxy for SES). Lower SES has less advantages available (tutoring, having to work, having to watch siblings) that impact school (I was that lower SES growing up, but white). The argument some make is that the teachers don't cause the gap - which I agree- but should do more to close that gap (I'm not sure where I come out on that given the variety of challenges in the schools).

Ok, I’m the one who wrote “innate” and it has derailed the conversation a little bit. I don’t mean biologically or racially innate. But I mean that their aptitude is affected by a ton of things that we at school have absolutely no control over, and then we are evaluated based on whether we have magically overcome all of that, and when we have not we are told once more that we have implicit biases and that is the reason for the persistent gap.

I was more sympathetic until your last clause, because I think that is likely a glib misrepresentation. You likely do have a ton of biases that impact how you interact with students that shape your expectations, strategies etc. We all do. Someone can evaluate you and reasonably ask you to work on that without saying that you are going to magically overcome all society's inequities by doing so. You sound defensive on that point to me.

This is not an individual evaluation I’m talking about. This is a staff meeting — actually about once a quarter — where we all look at all the student test score data and then we look at graphs breaking it down by race, and when we inevitably notice that there is a racial disparity, our meeting transitions into a professional development on implicit bias and antiracism. I’ve had three of these staff meetings so far this year.

Well, addressing bias is the one thing you CAN do to improve outcomes. You don't have control over anything else, so of course that's going to be what comes up. That's what you can do. But earlier you mentioned that it's a big class difference associated with race/ethnicity--so why are you not talking about that more in those meetings? What strategies are you posing to support differences associated with differences in economic and educational resources in the home.
Also, I think you mentioned you work in an environment that is predominately White professional and Hispanic working class. If that's the case, you're talking about ethnicity differences not racial differences, unless you're talking about gaps in racial differences within the Hispanic population. Just sort of gets me worried about your level of insight into your students and their families if you have that base level confusion about race/ethnicity.

DP- you are not really worried about that or anything else the poster is talking about. You just have a need to be right. That sentence I bolded, where you fake “worry” is your tell.

BTW there is a language/intellectual skills gap between Hispanic and non-Hispanic whites at age 2.
Of course, this isn’t SES or a racial issue, it is because white people invented the questioning styles used in schools and have the power in schools to set curriculum, what questioning and discourse is used in schools. Becasue white people have the power, they modeled schools after their questioning and storytelling habits. Therefore white mothers are acculturated to talking even to their young babies in a way that aligns with the style of questioning used in school. Intelligence tests don’t measure intelligence, they measure the ability of a kid to access school skills, information and content.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For me it’s not about the inability to pee on my schedule. It’s about how my district and my administration tells the teachers that the reason we have a racial achievement gap is our implicit biases. That if we just tried harder then our students would all have exactly the same outcomes regardless of their hugely different home experiences and innate abilities.

This would piss me off too, but the fact that you’re attributing at least part of the racial achievement gap to these students’ innate abilities suggests that you do have a lot of implicit bias. You’re making it sound like you believe that different races have different innate abilities.

I do think that regardless of your biases, you and other teachers aren’t responsible for fixing the racial achievement gap. That’s ridiculous. But just beware that the language you use might make the admin think that they are onto something.

I’m that pp and here’s the reality in my school community. The white kids are primarily the children of upper middle class college-educated professionals. The Hispanic kids are primarily the children of non-college or high school educated blue collar workers, construction, housecleaning, etc. This is the society we live in right now in my area. People who drop out of high school generally have lesser innate academic abilities than people who graduate from college.

Okay but if you don’t want to sound biased need to avoid saying the *racial* achievement gap has something to do with any kind of innate ability. If you say it does, then you’re saying that some races are just born with more innate abilities, academic or otherwise. Im sure you recognize that this line of thinking is racist. You have to recognize that the reason that lower class workers are disproportionately POC is because of racist societal structures and not because there were born with fewer abilities than white people.

I didn't get PP said race was the reason for the achievement gap but, rather, the economic situation of the parents. This has a disparate effect or is more visible in various races. But PP wasn't saying white = smart, other races = not.

Right I do get what she’s trying to say, but everybody should honestly avoid suggesting the radial achievement gap has something to do with innate abilities. At a minimum, it’s not a necessary argument because in PP’s case it’s not the teachers who are causing the gap, implicit bias or no.

Again, I didn't read it as "innate" abilities but rather what was being seen in high/low economic groups (and race groups as a proxy for SES). Lower SES has less advantages available (tutoring, having to work, having to watch siblings) that impact school (I was that lower SES growing up, but white). The argument some make is that the teachers don't cause the gap - which I agree- but should do more to close that gap (I'm not sure where I come out on that given the variety of challenges in the schools).

Ok, I’m the one who wrote “innate” and it has derailed the conversation a little bit. I don’t mean biologically or racially innate. But I mean that their aptitude is affected by a ton of things that we at school have absolutely no control over, and then we are evaluated based on whether we have magically overcome all of that, and when we have not we are told once more that we have implicit biases and that is the reason for the persistent gap.

I was more sympathetic until your last clause, because I think that is likely a glib misrepresentation. You likely do have a ton of biases that impact how you interact with students that shape your expectations, strategies etc. We all do. Someone can evaluate you and reasonably ask you to work on that without saying that you are going to magically overcome all society's inequities by doing so. You sound defensive on that point to me.

This is not an individual evaluation I’m talking about. This is a staff meeting — actually about once a quarter — where we all look at all the student test score data and then we look at graphs breaking it down by race, and when we inevitably notice that there is a racial disparity, our meeting transitions into a professional development on implicit bias and antiracism. I’ve had three of these staff meetings so far this year.

Well, addressing bias is the one thing you CAN do to improve outcomes. You don't have control over anything else, so of course that's going to be what comes up. That's what you can do. But earlier you mentioned that it's a big class difference associated with race/ethnicity--so why are you not talking about that more in those meetings? What strategies are you posing to support differences associated with differences in economic and educational resources in the home.
Also, I think you mentioned you work in an environment that is predominately White professional and Hispanic working class. If that's the case, you're talking about ethnicity differences not racial differences, unless you're talking about gaps in racial differences within the Hispanic population. Just sort of gets me worried about your level of insight into your students and their families if you have that base level confusion about race/ethnicity.

DP- you are not really worried about that or anything else the poster is talking about. You just have a need to be right. That sentence I bolded, where you fake “worry” is your tell.

BTW there is a language/intellectual skills gap between Hispanic and non-Hispanic whites at age 2.
Of course, this isn’t SES or a racial issue, it is because white people invented the questioning styles used in schools and have the power in schools to set curriculum, what questioning and discourse is used in schools. Becasue white people have the power, they modeled schools after their questioning and storytelling habits. Therefore white mothers are acculturated to talking even to their young babies in a way that aligns with the style of questioning used in school. Intelligence tests don’t measure intelligence, they measure the ability of a kid to access school skills, information and content.

I think you're reading me wrong because I agree with your latter paragraph and actually know a lot about this area of research. One point I disagree is that SES is also a huge issue--because SES predicts academic differences between Hispanic student outcomes at every age in school. I was responding to the fact that the PP was talking about racial differences but s/he works with a Hispanic population and I personally have found it a "tell" when someone starts talking as if Hispanic is a racial category. If she's working day in/day out with a Hispanic population and makes that kind of casual error, I do worry. It's not about being "right" (and anyway, I just entered this conversation with my pov--I haven't been involved all along).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DW teaches in an elementary school. They received an email from their administrators reminding them of their contract hours and the expectation that they be in the building during those hours through today. My DW puts in many more than her “contract hours” on a daily basis and she said they had no meetings. She said what she did at the school could have been done from home if she wanted to.

She’s salaried. I told her they are treating her like an hourly employee. They shouldn’t do both. If they treat her as an hourly employee as they did in that email then she really shouldn’t volunteer to do any other work outside of those hours. I know she can’t get her job done and won’t do that, but the morale sure does take a hit.

I’ll add staff meeting Morning Meetings. Every time we have a staff meeting or PD day such as today we start off with a Morning Meeting. Message, share, activity. After 100+ days of school the students are tired of MM. we are tired of them. Why must we hold one at the beginning of a Staff Development Day? That’s 25 minutes I won’t get back.

Ugh. That sounds awful. At some point, there has to be some efficiency built in and recognition to just let them get their sh-- done. They can "share" later amongst themselves if they want to do so.

And why make everyone go into the school and sit at tables for a guest speaker who is presenting over Zoom?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DW teaches in an elementary school. They received an email from their administrators reminding them of their contract hours and the expectation that they be in the building during those hours through today. My DW puts in many more than her “contract hours” on a daily basis and she said they had no meetings. She said what she did at the school could have been done from home if she wanted to.

She’s salaried. I told her they are treating her like an hourly employee. They shouldn’t do both. If they treat her as an hourly employee as they did in that email then she really shouldn’t volunteer to do any other work outside of those hours. I know she can’t get her job done and won’t do that, but the morale sure does take a hit.

Yup....they treat teachers like children. The working conditions are poor and the respect from admin and parents is lacking. Morale in my ES has been low this year.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Of course they aren't ! Not any more than other positions. They really have no other skills or opportunities except retail or daycare.

Not true, I know plenty of teachers who left and went directly into office jobs. Anyone can send emails, edit documents, sit in meetings, etc.

I'm so curious about people like you -- what exactly do you think those of us who work in an "office job" actually do all day long. Do you think we all have the exact same job? Do you think every company is Dundler Mifflin? Please tell us more about the typical "office job"!!

I'd settle for just being able to go to the bathroom when I need to instead of praying for some random adult to walk past my classroom at the end of the hall.

This sounds like my nightmare. Are you an elementary teacher?

I’ve had to do much the same in HS. 6 minute class break to try to pee, but 1 minute to the nearest faculty bathroom and 1 minute back, and there’s only one stall that’s serving 10-12 classrooms so there’s usually a wait.

Most of the Office Jobs Über Alles crew wouldn’t last a week.

I mean, it's so disheartening to hear this. If school administrators can't figure out a way to allow teachers to use the bathroom when they need to, what hope is there that they can tackle more difficult problems.

I know people complain about this on this board, but it isn’t something I hear teachers mention IRL. I’ve been teaching 30 years and IME there isn’t much anxiety over this. I go at 6:40 when I get up, 12:00, and again before I leave or when I get home.

I take a meditation that is a diuretic. I have to go all day long as often as every 30-40 minutes. It can be a sad piece of stress since there is nobody near me to help.

You should probably switch to an office job then.

Oh look it's the teacher troll!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not being able to go pee, is not really a concern.

For me I hardly have time to drink water all day. Most days, I barely take <5 sips from arrivals to dismissal, because it's non-stop.

We're hustling and working during specials, lunch, and recess, and you have to be "on" every minute of the day -- at least in Elementary. And if I'm not drinking anything, I don't have to pee!

After-school staff meetings are absurd, except on an emergency basis. Everything could be communicated in an e-mail. Don't make teachers stay after school for an hour so we can practice new morning meeting ideas.

A lot of meetings in schools could be an email.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DW teaches in an elementary school. They received an email from their administrators reminding them of their contract hours and the expectation that they be in the building during those hours through today. My DW puts in many more than her “contract hours” on a daily basis and she said they had no meetings. She said what she did at the school could have been done from home if she wanted to.

She’s salaried. I told her they are treating her like an hourly employee. They shouldn’t do both. If they treat her as an hourly employee as they did in that email then she really shouldn’t volunteer to do any other work outside of those hours. I know she can’t get her job done and won’t do that, but the morale sure does take a hit.

I’ll add staff meeting Morning Meetings. Every time we have a staff meeting or PD day such as today we start off with a Morning Meeting. Message, share, activity. After 100+ days of school the students are tired of MM. we are tired of them. Why must we hold one at the beginning of a Staff Development Day? That’s 25 minutes I won’t get back.

Ugh. That sounds awful. At some point, there has to be some efficiency built in and recognition to just let them get their sh-- done. They can "share" later amongst themselves if they want to do so.

And why make everyone go into the school and sit at tables for a guest speaker who is presenting over Zoom?

Anyone?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DW teaches in an elementary school. They received an email from their administrators reminding them of their contract hours and the expectation that they be in the building during those hours through today. My DW puts in many more than her “contract hours” on a daily basis and she said they had no meetings. She said what she did at the school could have been done from home if she wanted to.

She’s salaried. I told her they are treating her like an hourly employee. They shouldn’t do both. If they treat her as an hourly employee as they did in that email then she really shouldn’t volunteer to do any other work outside of those hours. I know she can’t get her job done and won’t do that, but the morale sure does take a hit.

I’ll add staff meeting Morning Meetings. Every time we have a staff meeting or PD day such as today we start off with a Morning Meeting. Message, share, activity. After 100+ days of school the students are tired of MM. we are tired of them. Why must we hold one at the beginning of a Staff Development Day? That’s 25 minutes I won’t get back.

Ugh. That sounds awful. At some point, there has to be some efficiency built in and recognition to just let them get their sh-- done. They can "share" later amongst themselves if they want to do so.

And why make everyone go into the school and sit at tables for a guest speaker who is presenting over Zoom?

Anyone?

What type of response are you looking for?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:For me it’s not about the inability to pee on my schedule. It’s about how my district and my administration tells the teachers that the reason we have a racial achievement gap is our implicit biases. That if we just tried harder then our students would all have exactly the same outcomes regardless of their hugely different home experiences and innate abilities.

This would piss me off too, but the fact that you’re attributing at least part of the racial achievement gap to these students’ innate abilities suggests that you do have a lot of implicit bias. You’re making it sound like you believe that different races have different innate abilities.

I do think that regardless of your biases, you and other teachers aren’t responsible for fixing the racial achievement gap. That’s ridiculous. But just beware that the language you use might make the admin think that they are onto something.

I’m that pp and here’s the reality in my school community. The white kids are primarily the children of upper middle class college-educated professionals. The Hispanic kids are primarily the children of non-college or high school educated blue collar workers, construction, housecleaning, etc. This is the society we live in right now in my area. People who drop out of high school generally have lesser innate academic abilities than people who graduate from college.

Okay but if you don’t want to sound biased need to avoid saying the *racial* achievement gap has something to do with any kind of innate ability. If you say it does, then you’re saying that some races are just born with more innate abilities, academic or otherwise. Im sure you recognize that this line of thinking is racist. You have to recognize that the reason that lower class workers are disproportionately POC is because of racist societal structures and not because there were born with fewer abilities than white people.

I didn't get PP said race was the reason for the achievement gap but, rather, the economic situation of the parents. This has a disparate effect or is more visible in various races. But PP wasn't saying white = smart, other races = not.

Right I do get what she’s trying to say, but everybody should honestly avoid suggesting the radial achievement gap has something to do with innate abilities. At a minimum, it’s not a necessary argument because in PP’s case it’s not the teachers who are causing the gap, implicit bias or no.

Again, I didn't read it as "innate" abilities but rather what was being seen in high/low economic groups (and race groups as a proxy for SES). Lower SES has less advantages available (tutoring, having to work, having to watch siblings) that impact school (I was that lower SES growing up, but white). The argument some make is that the teachers don't cause the gap - which I agree- but should do more to close that gap (I'm not sure where I come out on that given the variety of challenges in the schools).

Ok, I’m the one who wrote “innate” and it has derailed the conversation a little bit. I don’t mean biologically or racially innate. But I mean that their aptitude is affected by a ton of things that we at school have absolutely no control over, and then we are evaluated based on whether we have magically overcome all of that, and when we have not we are told once more that we have implicit biases and that is the reason for the persistent gap.

I was more sympathetic until your last clause, because I think that is likely a glib misrepresentation. You likely do have a ton of biases that impact how you interact with students that shape your expectations, strategies etc. We all do. Someone can evaluate you and reasonably ask you to work on that without saying that you are going to magically overcome all society's inequities by doing so. You sound defensive on that point to me.

This is not an individual evaluation I’m talking about. This is a staff meeting — actually about once a quarter — where we all look at all the student test score data and then we look at graphs breaking it down by race, and when we inevitably notice that there is a racial disparity, our meeting transitions into a professional development on implicit bias and antiracism. I’ve had three of these staff meetings so far this year.

I'm the PP who called out the innate comment and I do want to reiterate that I think you have an absolutely valid point. The cause of the racial achievement gap is multi-faceted and a lot of people are pointing to schools as the solution because we already have that infrastructure, but if a child is doing poorly because of food insecurity, generational trauma, poverty, housing insecurity, etc., no amount of implicit bias training can address those issues. Those are societal issues that teachers cannot fix. To ignore those issues when examining the racial achievement gap and instead put the microscope on a teacher's implicit bias really misses the mark and doesn't do anyone any good. Plus, teachers are spread too thin to meaningfully help any child and that exacerbates the achievement gap because the privileged kids will get outside help and resources to make up the difference.

The implicit bias causes disparity in discipline. Two kids one black one white commit the same minor offense. The white gets a pass the black kid gets sent to the principles office. The offense running in the hallway. Which one is missing valuable lesson time, which one comes to be labeled a problem kid so ends up under a microscope which means they are then constantly getting called out for any minor transgression puffed up and real or imagined.

Which one keeps missing out on valuable lessons. Which one can’t get the teacher referrals for advanced classes. Which one gets discouraged and begins to believe they are bad, not smart, etc

Meanwhile which one grows up to be a school shooter and everyone cries what but Jackson was such a good kid he never got into trouble.

Implicit bias hurts more than just the black, brown and economically disadvantaged.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:For me it’s not about the inability to pee on my schedule. It’s about how my district and my administration tells the teachers that the reason we have a racial achievement gap is our implicit biases. That if we just tried harder then our students would all have exactly the same outcomes regardless of their hugely different home experiences and innate abilities.

This would piss me off too, but the fact that you’re attributing at least part of the racial achievement gap to these students’ innate abilities suggests that you do have a lot of implicit bias. You’re making it sound like you believe that different races have different innate abilities.

I do think that regardless of your biases, you and other teachers aren’t responsible for fixing the racial achievement gap. That’s ridiculous. But just beware that the language you use might make the admin think that they are onto something.

I’m that pp and here’s the reality in my school community. The white kids are primarily the children of upper middle class college-educated professionals. The Hispanic kids are primarily the children of non-college or high school educated blue collar workers, construction, housecleaning, etc. This is the society we live in right now in my area. People who drop out of high school generally have lesser innate academic abilities than people who graduate from college.

Okay but if you don’t want to sound biased need to avoid saying the *racial* achievement gap has something to do with any kind of innate ability. If you say it does, then you’re saying that some races are just born with more innate abilities, academic or otherwise. Im sure you recognize that this line of thinking is racist. You have to recognize that the reason that lower class workers are disproportionately POC is because of racist societal structures and not because there were born with fewer abilities than white people.

I didn't get PP said race was the reason for the achievement gap but, rather, the economic situation of the parents. This has a disparate effect or is more visible in various races. But PP wasn't saying white = smart, other races = not.

Right I do get what she’s trying to say, but everybody should honestly avoid suggesting the radial achievement gap has something to do with innate abilities. At a minimum, it’s not a necessary argument because in PP’s case it’s not the teachers who are causing the gap, implicit bias or no.

Again, I didn't read it as "innate" abilities but rather what was being seen in high/low economic groups (and race groups as a proxy for SES). Lower SES has less advantages available (tutoring, having to work, having to watch siblings) that impact school (I was that lower SES growing up, but white). The argument some make is that the teachers don't cause the gap - which I agree- but should do more to close that gap (I'm not sure where I come out on that given the variety of challenges in the schools).

Ok, I’m the one who wrote “innate” and it has derailed the conversation a little bit. I don’t mean biologically or racially innate. But I mean that their aptitude is affected by a ton of things that we at school have absolutely no control over, and then we are evaluated based on whether we have magically overcome all of that, and when we have not we are told once more that we have implicit biases and that is the reason for the persistent gap.

I was more sympathetic until your last clause, because I think that is likely a glib misrepresentation. You likely do have a ton of biases that impact how you interact with students that shape your expectations, strategies etc. We all do. Someone can evaluate you and reasonably ask you to work on that without saying that you are going to magically overcome all society's inequities by doing so. You sound defensive on that point to me.

This is not an individual evaluation I’m talking about. This is a staff meeting — actually about once a quarter — where we all look at all the student test score data and then we look at graphs breaking it down by race, and when we inevitably notice that there is a racial disparity, our meeting transitions into a professional development on implicit bias and antiracism. I’ve had three of these staff meetings so far this year.

Well, addressing bias is the one thing you CAN do to improve outcomes. You don't have control over anything else, so of course that's going to be what comes up. That's what you can do. But earlier you mentioned that it's a big class difference associated with race/ethnicity--so why are you not talking about that more in those meetings? What strategies are you posing to support differences associated with differences in economic and educational resources in the home.
Also, I think you mentioned you work in an environment that is predominately White professional and Hispanic working class. If that's the case, you're talking about ethnicity differences not racial differences, unless you're talking about gaps in racial differences within the Hispanic population. Just sort of gets me worried about your level of insight into your students and their families if you have that base level confusion about race/ethnicity.

From the academic way you are looking at this I don’t think you understand these conditions on the ground. Schools are required by their administrations to break out test score data by race and analyze it. Our trainings are about racism and antiracism. The whole system is set up to put kids into buckets by race (and this is also crazy-making). So it’s not really relevant at all to say “well, this is technically ethnicity, not race.” If you don’t like categorizing people, spend your time working against the entire current system, not the teachers.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:For me it’s not about the inability to pee on my schedule. It’s about how my district and my administration tells the teachers that the reason we have a racial achievement gap is our implicit biases. That if we just tried harder then our students would all have exactly the same outcomes regardless of their hugely different home experiences and innate abilities.

Agreed, that’s infuriating.

Do you know what I think is infuriating the assumption that just because a student is from a racial group not your own, or not traditionally associated with being a model minority the assumption usually by implicit bias is that it is less than. As the parent of a child who’s experiences in FCPS have definitely been negatively impacted by your biases, I really get tired of having to take ignorance to the mat every single year. It’s no fun to have to put you in your place either privately or in front of your peers. But it is necessary when my kid gets tired of the harassment. In other words if you have to hear it from someone better it be from one of your own.

Not all white people are privileged or innately intelligent, and not all Asians are innately intelligent nor are they all hardworking and not all of the others are violent, dumb, poor and stupid or because they are “poor” that makes them less capable or whatever ignorance you use to other and confirm your biases in regards to little and not so kids every single day.

Disparity in discipline which has its roots in hostility and over vigilance, in scrutinizing and then reporting on those you deem as others who need to be policed and fixed lest they get out of control and ruin the experience for the more deserving. What effect do you think that has on the youngest of students?

What does my kid need to do in order for bigots to think he has an equal right to be? Should he wear his passport on his back so you can check the stamps, or wear his parents professional degrees on his shirt front, bring a copy of our mortgage docs for you to inspect at the beginning of the year. Please even that wouldn’t be enough. Nope that would just make you really angry.

But know this people like “the less thans” don’t need to just take it and be grateful, so get off of this board and go read some Kendi.

I focus on SES and not race as an explanation for the education gap. You can see it in play in the poor areas of Appalachia where there is generational poverty and generational issues with education. Parents, grandparents, great grandparents did not graduate from high school. They have lived in poverty for generations. I fully expect that the kids of those families are going to be likely to drop out of school and find themselves living in poverty. There was a series of articles in the Washington Post a few years back that showed how poor white families end up relying on disability and social security payments vs welfare payments that are more common in the inner cities. The articles highlighted to me that the issue is generational poverty and not race or ethnicity.

The larger issue is how do we convince families that have not had success in school to understand why education is important. And how do we help those parents support their kids in school so that the kids have a chance of succeeding. What we are doing in FCPS is not working to close the education gap. What we have been doing in the cities has not been working to close the education gap. What we are doing in Appalachia is not working to close the education gap.

What I do know is that we are asking out Teachers to do too much today. We are asking them to provide different lesson plans for kids with wildly different needs int he same class and it is too much. There is no way for a Teacher to meet the needs of kids who are 2 years behind, 1 year behind, struggling on grade level, on grade level, and kids who are ahead. No way. Toss in kids who are frustrated in school and are acting out because they are frustrated. And kids who are hungry and cannot concentrate. And kids who have learning issues and are frustrated. And kids who struggle with emotional regulation and are acting out. All in one classroom. What the heck are we expecting Teachers to do?

But you mention tracking and people get upset because all kids deserve the same education. You mention kids needing specialized support and people get upset because mainstream is best. Parents of kids who are on grade level or ahead and want their kids to be challenged are frustrated because the classroom is not meeting their kids needs. Parents of kids with learning issues are frustrated because the classroom is not meeting their kids needs. All the parents are frustrated that the kids who are disruptive, whether that is requiring evacuation or just always talking and moving and needing to be redirected, are slowing down progress in the classroom. And the Teacher gets all the crap because they are not making this mish mash of students work.

It isn't one kid, it is 5 or 6 kids. And it isn't one or two lesson plans, it is 5 or 6 lesson plans.

It is too much. We don't have the answer to the larger issues and it shows. But the approach we are taking now is not helping many kids and seems to be negatively impacting a lot of kids.

I don't know if you're the first PP, but I think the issue isn't the mention of SES, but the mention if innate abilities. To associate innate abilities with any kind of achievement on a broad sale is social darwinism and the kind of rhetoric we should all avoid.

You realize of course that 75% of intelligence is heritable so different kids very much are born with different innate abilities?

Well cogat test prep that starts in the cradle isn’t cheap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you are an elementary school teacher, you can pee right before the kids come in (8:25), again at specials times or lunch (anywhere from mid morning to noon), again at recess (a colleague could watch your class outside easily) and again at dismissal (3:30 ish). It’s really not that hard!

I teach middle school, but this is not close to what I experience as a middle school teacher.

Kids are in my classroom at 7:10, and my lunch doesn't begin until 12:15 each day. My planning blocks are both in the afternoon, so I can't go to the restroom during a planning block. It might seem that I can go between classes, but that is not possible because the closest faculty restroom is not very close to my classroom, and there are always at least two other teachers in line (it is a single toilet), so there is not time to go before I have to be back in my classroom.

Five hours is a long time to go without using the restroom, especially for a peri-menopausal woman who also has fibroids. I now wear Thinx underwear every day to school, but that's not even always enough, so I've had some embarrassing situations occur.

While we do now have recess in middle school, but I am assigned to a post where I am alone, so I can't even go to the toilet during recess because there is no one else there to watch the children in that location.