Teachers Resigning Like Crazy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For me it’s not about the inability to pee on my schedule. It’s about how my district and my administration tells the teachers that the reason we have a racial achievement gap is our implicit biases. That if we just tried harder then our students would all have exactly the same outcomes regardless of their hugely different home experiences and innate abilities.

Agreed, that’s infuriating.

Do you know what I think is infuriating the assumption that just because a student is from a racial group not your own, or not traditionally associated with being a model minority the assumption usually by implicit bias is that it is less than. As the parent of a child who’s experiences in FCPS have definitely been negatively impacted by your biases, I really get tired of having to take ignorance to the mat every single year. It’s no fun to have to put you in your place either privately or in front of your peers. But it is necessary when my kid gets tired of the harassment. In other words if you have to hear it from someone better it be from one of your own.

Not all white people are privileged or innately intelligent, and not all Asians are innately intelligent nor are they all hardworking and not all of the others are violent, dumb, poor and stupid or because they are “poor” that makes them less capable or whatever ignorance you use to other and confirm your biases in regards to little and not so kids every single day.

Disparity in discipline which has its roots in hostility and over vigilance, in scrutinizing and then reporting on those you deem as others who need to be policed and fixed lest they get out of control and ruin the experience for the more deserving. What effect do you think that has on the youngest of students?

What does my kid need to do in order for bigots to think he has an equal right to be? Should he wear his passport on his back so you can check the stamps, or wear his parents professional degrees on his shirt front, bring a copy of our mortgage docs for you to inspect at the beginning of the year. Please even that wouldn’t be enough. Nope that would just make you really angry.

But know this people like “the less thans” don’t need to just take it and be grateful, so get off of this board and go read some Kendi.

I focus on SES and not race as an explanation for the education gap. You can see it in play in the poor areas of Appalachia where there is generational poverty and generational issues with education. Parents, grandparents, great grandparents did not graduate from high school. They have lived in poverty for generations. I fully expect that the kids of those families are going to be likely to drop out of school and find themselves living in poverty. There was a series of articles in the Washington Post a few years back that showed how poor white families end up relying on disability and social security payments vs welfare payments that are more common in the inner cities. The articles highlighted to me that the issue is generational poverty and not race or ethnicity.

The larger issue is how do we convince families that have not had success in school to understand why education is important. And how do we help those parents support their kids in school so that the kids have a chance of succeeding. What we are doing in FCPS is not working to close the education gap. What we have been doing in the cities has not been working to close the education gap. What we are doing in Appalachia is not working to close the education gap.

What I do know is that we are asking out Teachers to do too much today. We are asking them to provide different lesson plans for kids with wildly different needs int he same class and it is too much. There is no way for a Teacher to meet the needs of kids who are 2 years behind, 1 year behind, struggling on grade level, on grade level, and kids who are ahead. No way. Toss in kids who are frustrated in school and are acting out because they are frustrated. And kids who are hungry and cannot concentrate. And kids who have learning issues and are frustrated. And kids who struggle with emotional regulation and are acting out. All in one classroom. What the heck are we expecting Teachers to do?

But you mention tracking and people get upset because all kids deserve the same education. You mention kids needing specialized support and people get upset because mainstream is best. Parents of kids who are on grade level or ahead and want their kids to be challenged are frustrated because the classroom is not meeting their kids needs. Parents of kids with learning issues are frustrated because the classroom is not meeting their kids needs. All the parents are frustrated that the kids who are disruptive, whether that is requiring evacuation or just always talking and moving and needing to be redirected, are slowing down progress in the classroom. And the Teacher gets all the crap because they are not making this mish mash of students work.

It isn't one kid, it is 5 or 6 kids. And it isn't one or two lesson plans, it is 5 or 6 lesson plans.

It is too much. We don't have the answer to the larger issues and it shows. But the approach we are taking now is not helping many kids and seems to be negatively impacting a lot of kids.

I don't know if you're the first PP, but I think the issue isn't the mention of SES, but the mention if innate abilities. To associate innate abilities with any kind of achievement on a broad sale is social darwinism and the kind of rhetoric we should all avoid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For me it’s not about the inability to pee on my schedule. It’s about how my district and my administration tells the teachers that the reason we have a racial achievement gap is our implicit biases. That if we just tried harder then our students would all have exactly the same outcomes regardless of their hugely different home experiences and innate abilities.

Agreed, that’s infuriating.

Do you know what I think is infuriating the assumption that just because a student is from a racial group not your own, or not traditionally associated with being a model minority the assumption usually by implicit bias is that it is less than. As the parent of a child who’s experiences in FCPS have definitely been negatively impacted by your biases, I really get tired of having to take ignorance to the mat every single year. It’s no fun to have to put you in your place either privately or in front of your peers. But it is necessary when my kid gets tired of the harassment. In other words if you have to hear it from someone better it be from one of your own.

Not all white people are privileged or innately intelligent, and not all Asians are innately intelligent nor are they all hardworking and not all of the others are violent, dumb, poor and stupid or because they are “poor” that makes them less capable or whatever ignorance you use to other and confirm your biases in regards to little and not so kids every single day.

Disparity in discipline which has its roots in hostility and over vigilance, in scrutinizing and then reporting on those you deem as others who need to be policed and fixed lest they get out of control and ruin the experience for the more deserving. What effect do you think that has on the youngest of students?

What does my kid need to do in order for bigots to think he has an equal right to be? Should he wear his passport on his back so you can check the stamps, or wear his parents professional degrees on his shirt front, bring a copy of our mortgage docs for you to inspect at the beginning of the year. Please even that wouldn’t be enough. Nope that would just make you really angry.

But know this people like “the less thans” don’t need to just take it and be grateful, so get off of this board and go read some Kendi.

I focus on SES and not race as an explanation for the education gap. You can see it in play in the poor areas of Appalachia where there is generational poverty and generational issues with education. Parents, grandparents, great grandparents did not graduate from high school. They have lived in poverty for generations. I fully expect that the kids of those families are going to be likely to drop out of school and find themselves living in poverty. There was a series of articles in the Washington Post a few years back that showed how poor white families end up relying on disability and social security payments vs welfare payments that are more common in the inner cities. The articles highlighted to me that the issue is generational poverty and not race or ethnicity.

The larger issue is how do we convince families that have not had success in school to understand why education is important. And how do we help those parents support their kids in school so that the kids have a chance of succeeding. What we are doing in FCPS is not working to close the education gap. What we have been doing in the cities has not been working to close the education gap. What we are doing in Appalachia is not working to close the education gap.

What I do know is that we are asking out Teachers to do too much today. We are asking them to provide different lesson plans for kids with wildly different needs int he same class and it is too much. There is no way for a Teacher to meet the needs of kids who are 2 years behind, 1 year behind, struggling on grade level, on grade level, and kids who are ahead. No way. Toss in kids who are frustrated in school and are acting out because they are frustrated. And kids who are hungry and cannot concentrate. And kids who have learning issues and are frustrated. And kids who struggle with emotional regulation and are acting out. All in one classroom. What the heck are we expecting Teachers to do?

But you mention tracking and people get upset because all kids deserve the same education. You mention kids needing specialized support and people get upset because mainstream is best. Parents of kids who are on grade level or ahead and want their kids to be challenged are frustrated because the classroom is not meeting their kids needs. Parents of kids with learning issues are frustrated because the classroom is not meeting their kids needs. All the parents are frustrated that the kids who are disruptive, whether that is requiring evacuation or just always talking and moving and needing to be redirected, are slowing down progress in the classroom. And the Teacher gets all the crap because they are not making this mish mash of students work.

It isn't one kid, it is 5 or 6 kids. And it isn't one or two lesson plans, it is 5 or 6 lesson plans.

It is too much. We don't have the answer to the larger issues and it shows. But the approach we are taking now is not helping many kids and seems to be negatively impacting a lot of kids.

I don't know if you're the first PP, but I think the issue isn't the mention of SES, but the mention if innate abilities. To associate innate abilities with any kind of achievement on a broad sale is social darwinism and the kind of rhetoric we should all avoid.

You realize of course that 75% of intelligence is heritable so different kids very much are born with different innate abilities?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you are an elementary school teacher, you can pee right before the kids come in (8:25), again at specials times or lunch (anywhere from mid morning to noon), again at recess (a colleague could watch your class outside easily) and again at dismissal (3:30 ish). It’s really not that hard!

It is when there is nobody anywhere near you to watch your class!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For me it’s not about the inability to pee on my schedule. It’s about how my district and my administration tells the teachers that the reason we have a racial achievement gap is our implicit biases. That if we just tried harder then our students would all have exactly the same outcomes regardless of their hugely different home experiences and innate abilities.

This would piss me off too, but the fact that you’re attributing at least part of the racial achievement gap to these students’ innate abilities suggests that you do have a lot of implicit bias. You’re making it sound like you believe that different races have different innate abilities.

I do think that regardless of your biases, you and other teachers aren’t responsible for fixing the racial achievement gap. That’s ridiculous. But just beware that the language you use might make the admin think that they are onto something.

I’m that pp and here’s the reality in my school community. The white kids are primarily the children of upper middle class college-educated professionals. The Hispanic kids are primarily the children of non-college or high school educated blue collar workers, construction, housecleaning, etc. This is the society we live in right now in my area. People who drop out of high school generally have lesser innate academic abilities than people who graduate from college.

Okay but if you don’t want to sound biased need to avoid saying the *racial* achievement gap has something to do with any kind of innate ability. If you say it does, then you’re saying that some races are just born with more innate abilities, academic or otherwise. Im sure you recognize that this line of thinking is racist. You have to recognize that the reason that lower class workers are disproportionately POC is because of racist societal structures and not because there were born with fewer abilities than white people.

I didn't get PP said race was the reason for the achievement gap but, rather, the economic situation of the parents. This has a disparate effect or is more visible in various races. But PP wasn't saying white = smart, other races = not.

Right I do get what she’s trying to say, but everybody should honestly avoid suggesting the radial achievement gap has something to do with innate abilities. At a minimum, it’s not a necessary argument because in PP’s case it’s not the teachers who are causing the gap, implicit bias or no.

Again, I didn't read it as "innate" abilities but rather what was being seen in high/low economic groups (and race groups as a proxy for SES). Lower SES has less advantages available (tutoring, having to work, having to watch siblings) that impact school (I was that lower SES growing up, but white). The argument some make is that the teachers don't cause the gap - which I agree- but should do more to close that gap (I'm not sure where I come out on that given the variety of challenges in the schools).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you are an elementary school teacher, you can pee right before the kids come in (8:25), again at specials times or lunch (anywhere from mid morning to noon), again at recess (a colleague could watch your class outside easily) and again at dismissal (3:30 ish). It’s really not that hard!

Well, my schedule involves zero breaks from arrival to 1:30, because my grade has the last lunch and the last specials, so if I need to pee during that time, I have to find coverage. But I never considered that it would be easier if everything was different and I just had a different schedule! You're so good at solving problems! With an attitude like that, you are definitely qualified to work at Gatehouse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are an elementary school teacher, you can pee right before the kids come in (8:25), again at specials times or lunch (anywhere from mid morning to noon), again at recess (a colleague could watch your class outside easily) and again at dismissal (3:30 ish). It’s really not that hard!

Well, my schedule involves zero breaks from arrival to 1:30, because my grade has the last lunch and the last specials, so if I need to pee during that time, I have to find coverage. But I never considered that it would be easier if everything was different and I just had a different schedule! You're so good at solving problems! With an attitude like that, you are definitely qualified to work at Gatehouse.

+100, not everyone has specials, lunch and recess in the middle of the day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For me it’s not about the inability to pee on my schedule. It’s about how my district and my administration tells the teachers that the reason we have a racial achievement gap is our implicit biases. That if we just tried harder then our students would all have exactly the same outcomes regardless of their hugely different home experiences and innate abilities.

Agreed, that’s infuriating.

Do you know what I think is infuriating the assumption that just because a student is from a racial group not your own, or not traditionally associated with being a model minority the assumption usually by implicit bias is that it is less than. As the parent of a child who’s experiences in FCPS have definitely been negatively impacted by your biases, I really get tired of having to take ignorance to the mat every single year. It’s no fun to have to put you in your place either privately or in front of your peers. But it is necessary when my kid gets tired of the harassment. In other words if you have to hear it from someone better it be from one of your own.

Not all white people are privileged or innately intelligent, and not all Asians are innately intelligent nor are they all hardworking and not all of the others are violent, dumb, poor and stupid or because they are “poor” that makes them less capable or whatever ignorance you use to other and confirm your biases in regards to little and not so kids every single day.

Disparity in discipline which has its roots in hostility and over vigilance, in scrutinizing and then reporting on those you deem as others who need to be policed and fixed lest they get out of control and ruin the experience for the more deserving. What effect do you think that has on the youngest of students?

What does my kid need to do in order for bigots to think he has an equal right to be? Should he wear his passport on his back so you can check the stamps, or wear his parents professional degrees on his shirt front, bring a copy of our mortgage docs for you to inspect at the beginning of the year. Please even that wouldn’t be enough. Nope that would just make you really angry.

But know this people like “the less thans” don’t need to just take it and be grateful, so get off of this board and go read some Kendi.

I focus on SES and not race as an explanation for the education gap. You can see it in play in the poor areas of Appalachia where there is generational poverty and generational issues with education. Parents, grandparents, great grandparents did not graduate from high school. They have lived in poverty for generations. I fully expect that the kids of those families are going to be likely to drop out of school and find themselves living in poverty. There was a series of articles in the Washington Post a few years back that showed how poor white families end up relying on disability and social security payments vs welfare payments that are more common in the inner cities. The articles highlighted to me that the issue is generational poverty and not race or ethnicity.

The larger issue is how do we convince families that have not had success in school to understand why education is important. And how do we help those parents support their kids in school so that the kids have a chance of succeeding. What we are doing in FCPS is not working to close the education gap. What we have been doing in the cities has not been working to close the education gap. What we are doing in Appalachia is not working to close the education gap.

What I do know is that we are asking out Teachers to do too much today. We are asking them to provide different lesson plans for kids with wildly different needs int he same class and it is too much. There is no way for a Teacher to meet the needs of kids who are 2 years behind, 1 year behind, struggling on grade level, on grade level, and kids who are ahead. No way. Toss in kids who are frustrated in school and are acting out because they are frustrated. And kids who are hungry and cannot concentrate. And kids who have learning issues and are frustrated. And kids who struggle with emotional regulation and are acting out. All in one classroom. What the heck are we expecting Teachers to do?

But you mention tracking and people get upset because all kids deserve the same education. You mention kids needing specialized support and people get upset because mainstream is best. Parents of kids who are on grade level or ahead and want their kids to be challenged are frustrated because the classroom is not meeting their kids needs. Parents of kids with learning issues are frustrated because the classroom is not meeting their kids needs. All the parents are frustrated that the kids who are disruptive, whether that is requiring evacuation or just always talking and moving and needing to be redirected, are slowing down progress in the classroom. And the Teacher gets all the crap because they are not making this mish mash of students work.

It isn't one kid, it is 5 or 6 kids. And it isn't one or two lesson plans, it is 5 or 6 lesson plans.

It is too much. We don't have the answer to the larger issues and it shows. But the approach we are taking now is not helping many kids and seems to be negatively impacting a lot of kids.

I don't know if you're the first PP, but I think the issue isn't the mention of SES, but the mention if innate abilities. To associate innate abilities with any kind of achievement on a broad sale is social darwinism and the kind of rhetoric we should all avoid.

You realize of course that 75% of intelligence is heritable so different kids very much are born with different innate abilities?

Exactly whose opinion is that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For me it’s not about the inability to pee on my schedule. It’s about how my district and my administration tells the teachers that the reason we have a racial achievement gap is our implicit biases. That if we just tried harder then our students would all have exactly the same outcomes regardless of their hugely different home experiences and innate abilities.

Agreed, that’s infuriating.

Do you know what I think is infuriating the assumption that just because a student is from a racial group not your own, or not traditionally associated with being a model minority the assumption usually by implicit bias is that it is less than. As the parent of a child who’s experiences in FCPS have definitely been negatively impacted by your biases, I really get tired of having to take ignorance to the mat every single year. It’s no fun to have to put you in your place either privately or in front of your peers. But it is necessary when my kid gets tired of the harassment. In other words if you have to hear it from someone better it be from one of your own.

Not all white people are privileged or innately intelligent, and not all Asians are innately intelligent nor are they all hardworking and not all of the others are violent, dumb, poor and stupid or because they are “poor” that makes them less capable or whatever ignorance you use to other and confirm your biases in regards to little and not so kids every single day.

Disparity in discipline which has its roots in hostility and over vigilance, in scrutinizing and then reporting on those you deem as others who need to be policed and fixed lest they get out of control and ruin the experience for the more deserving. What effect do you think that has on the youngest of students?

What does my kid need to do in order for bigots to think he has an equal right to be? Should he wear his passport on his back so you can check the stamps, or wear his parents professional degrees on his shirt front, bring a copy of our mortgage docs for you to inspect at the beginning of the year. Please even that wouldn’t be enough. Nope that would just make you really angry.

But know this people like “the less thans” don’t need to just take it and be grateful, so get off of this board and go read some Kendi.

I focus on SES and not race as an explanation for the education gap. You can see it in play in the poor areas of Appalachia where there is generational poverty and generational issues with education. Parents, grandparents, great grandparents did not graduate from high school. They have lived in poverty for generations. I fully expect that the kids of those families are going to be likely to drop out of school and find themselves living in poverty. There was a series of articles in the Washington Post a few years back that showed how poor white families end up relying on disability and social security payments vs welfare payments that are more common in the inner cities. The articles highlighted to me that the issue is generational poverty and not race or ethnicity.

The larger issue is how do we convince families that have not had success in school to understand why education is important. And how do we help those parents support their kids in school so that the kids have a chance of succeeding. What we are doing in FCPS is not working to close the education gap. What we have been doing in the cities has not been working to close the education gap. What we are doing in Appalachia is not working to close the education gap.

What I do know is that we are asking out Teachers to do too much today. We are asking them to provide different lesson plans for kids with wildly different needs int he same class and it is too much. There is no way for a Teacher to meet the needs of kids who are 2 years behind, 1 year behind, struggling on grade level, on grade level, and kids who are ahead. No way. Toss in kids who are frustrated in school and are acting out because they are frustrated. And kids who are hungry and cannot concentrate. And kids who have learning issues and are frustrated. And kids who struggle with emotional regulation and are acting out. All in one classroom. What the heck are we expecting Teachers to do?

But you mention tracking and people get upset because all kids deserve the same education. You mention kids needing specialized support and people get upset because mainstream is best. Parents of kids who are on grade level or ahead and want their kids to be challenged are frustrated because the classroom is not meeting their kids needs. Parents of kids with learning issues are frustrated because the classroom is not meeting their kids needs. All the parents are frustrated that the kids who are disruptive, whether that is requiring evacuation or just always talking and moving and needing to be redirected, are slowing down progress in the classroom. And the Teacher gets all the crap because they are not making this mish mash of students work.

It isn't one kid, it is 5 or 6 kids. And it isn't one or two lesson plans, it is 5 or 6 lesson plans.

It is too much. We don't have the answer to the larger issues and it shows. But the approach we are taking now is not helping many kids and seems to be negatively impacting a lot of kids.

I don't know if you're the first PP, but I think the issue isn't the mention of SES, but the mention if innate abilities. To associate innate abilities with any kind of achievement on a broad sale is social darwinism and the kind of rhetoric we should all avoid.

You realize of course that 75% of intelligence is heritable so different kids very much are born with different innate abilities?

Exactly whose opinion is that?

DP: It's based on an outdated view of heritability via twin studies---developmental genetics now understand epigenesis much more deeply and see how experience pre and post-natally shapes even genetic expression and would never make such a claim.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are an elementary school teacher, you can pee right before the kids come in (8:25), again at specials times or lunch (anywhere from mid morning to noon), again at recess (a colleague could watch your class outside easily) and again at dismissal (3:30 ish). It’s really not that hard!

Well, my schedule involves zero breaks from arrival to 1:30, because my grade has the last lunch and the last specials, so if I need to pee during that time, I have to find coverage. But I never considered that it would be easier if everything was different and I just had a different schedule! You're so good at solving problems! With an attitude like that, you are definitely qualified to work at Gatehouse.

When do you do recess?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are an elementary school teacher, you can pee right before the kids come in (8:25), again at specials times or lunch (anywhere from mid morning to noon), again at recess (a colleague could watch your class outside easily) and again at dismissal (3:30 ish). It’s really not that hard!

Well, my schedule involves zero breaks from arrival to 1:30, because my grade has the last lunch and the last specials, so if I need to pee during that time, I have to find coverage. But I never considered that it would be easier if everything was different and I just had a different schedule! You're so good at solving problems! With an attitude like that, you are definitely qualified to work at Gatehouse.

Usually upper grades get first or second specials of the day. They give last specials of the day to the younger grades. I don’t believe you have the last lunch at 1:30 and last specials of the day. They reserve those for the kids who can’t handle the long day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For me it’s not about the inability to pee on my schedule. It’s about how my district and my administration tells the teachers that the reason we have a racial achievement gap is our implicit biases. That if we just tried harder then our students would all have exactly the same outcomes regardless of their hugely different home experiences and innate abilities.

This would piss me off too, but the fact that you’re attributing at least part of the racial achievement gap to these students’ innate abilities suggests that you do have a lot of implicit bias. You’re making it sound like you believe that different races have different innate abilities.

I do think that regardless of your biases, you and other teachers aren’t responsible for fixing the racial achievement gap. That’s ridiculous. But just beware that the language you use might make the admin think that they are onto something.

I’m that pp and here’s the reality in my school community. The white kids are primarily the children of upper middle class college-educated professionals. The Hispanic kids are primarily the children of non-college or high school educated blue collar workers, construction, housecleaning, etc. This is the society we live in right now in my area. People who drop out of high school generally have lesser innate academic abilities than people who graduate from college.

Okay but if you don’t want to sound biased need to avoid saying the *racial* achievement gap has something to do with any kind of innate ability. If you say it does, then you’re saying that some races are just born with more innate abilities, academic or otherwise. Im sure you recognize that this line of thinking is racist. You have to recognize that the reason that lower class workers are disproportionately POC is because of racist societal structures and not because there were born with fewer abilities than white people.

I didn't get PP said race was the reason for the achievement gap but, rather, the economic situation of the parents. This has a disparate effect or is more visible in various races. But PP wasn't saying white = smart, other races = not.

Right I do get what she’s trying to say, but everybody should honestly avoid suggesting the radial achievement gap has something to do with innate abilities. At a minimum, it’s not a necessary argument because in PP’s case it’s not the teachers who are causing the gap, implicit bias or no.

Again, I didn't read it as "innate" abilities but rather what was being seen in high/low economic groups (and race groups as a proxy for SES). Lower SES has less advantages available (tutoring, having to work, having to watch siblings) that impact school (I was that lower SES growing up, but white). The argument some make is that the teachers don't cause the gap - which I agree- but should do more to close that gap (I'm not sure where I come out on that given the variety of challenges in the schools).

Ok, I’m the one who wrote “innate” and it has derailed the conversation a little bit. I don’t mean biologically or racially innate. But I mean that their aptitude is affected by a ton of things that we at school have absolutely no control over, and then we are evaluated based on whether we have magically overcome all of that, and when we have not we are told once more that we have implicit biases and that is the reason for the persistent gap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For me it’s not about the inability to pee on my schedule. It’s about how my district and my administration tells the teachers that the reason we have a racial achievement gap is our implicit biases. That if we just tried harder then our students would all have exactly the same outcomes regardless of their hugely different home experiences and innate abilities.

This would piss me off too, but the fact that you’re attributing at least part of the racial achievement gap to these students’ innate abilities suggests that you do have a lot of implicit bias. You’re making it sound like you believe that different races have different innate abilities.

I do think that regardless of your biases, you and other teachers aren’t responsible for fixing the racial achievement gap. That’s ridiculous. But just beware that the language you use might make the admin think that they are onto something.

I’m that pp and here’s the reality in my school community. The white kids are primarily the children of upper middle class college-educated professionals. The Hispanic kids are primarily the children of non-college or high school educated blue collar workers, construction, housecleaning, etc. This is the society we live in right now in my area. People who drop out of high school generally have lesser innate academic abilities than people who graduate from college.

Okay but if you don’t want to sound biased need to avoid saying the *racial* achievement gap has something to do with any kind of innate ability. If you say it does, then you’re saying that some races are just born with more innate abilities, academic or otherwise. Im sure you recognize that this line of thinking is racist. You have to recognize that the reason that lower class workers are disproportionately POC is because of racist societal structures and not because there were born with fewer abilities than white people.

I didn't get PP said race was the reason for the achievement gap but, rather, the economic situation of the parents. This has a disparate effect or is more visible in various races. But PP wasn't saying white = smart, other races = not.

Right I do get what she’s trying to say, but everybody should honestly avoid suggesting the radial achievement gap has something to do with innate abilities. At a minimum, it’s not a necessary argument because in PP’s case it’s not the teachers who are causing the gap, implicit bias or no.

Again, I didn't read it as "innate" abilities but rather what was being seen in high/low economic groups (and race groups as a proxy for SES). Lower SES has less advantages available (tutoring, having to work, having to watch siblings) that impact school (I was that lower SES growing up, but white). The argument some make is that the teachers don't cause the gap - which I agree- but should do more to close that gap (I'm not sure where I come out on that given the variety of challenges in the schools).

Ok, I’m the one who wrote “innate” and it has derailed the conversation a little bit. I don’t mean biologically or racially innate. But I mean that their aptitude is affected by a ton of things that we at school have absolutely no control over, and then we are evaluated based on whether we have magically overcome all of that, and when we have not we are told once more that we have implicit biases and that is the reason for the persistent gap.

I was more sympathetic until your last clause, because I think that is likely a glib misrepresentation. You likely do have a ton of biases that impact how you interact with students that shape your expectations, strategies etc. We all do. Someone can evaluate you and reasonably ask you to work on that without saying that you are going to magically overcome all society's inequities by doing so. You sound defensive on that point to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For me it’s not about the inability to pee on my schedule. It’s about how my district and my administration tells the teachers that the reason we have a racial achievement gap is our implicit biases. That if we just tried harder then our students would all have exactly the same outcomes regardless of their hugely different home experiences and innate abilities.

This would piss me off too, but the fact that you’re attributing at least part of the racial achievement gap to these students’ innate abilities suggests that you do have a lot of implicit bias. You’re making it sound like you believe that different races have different innate abilities.

I do think that regardless of your biases, you and other teachers aren’t responsible for fixing the racial achievement gap. That’s ridiculous. But just beware that the language you use might make the admin think that they are onto something.

I’m that pp and here’s the reality in my school community. The white kids are primarily the children of upper middle class college-educated professionals. The Hispanic kids are primarily the children of non-college or high school educated blue collar workers, construction, housecleaning, etc. This is the society we live in right now in my area. People who drop out of high school generally have lesser innate academic abilities than people who graduate from college.

Okay but if you don’t want to sound biased need to avoid saying the *racial* achievement gap has something to do with any kind of innate ability. If you say it does, then you’re saying that some races are just born with more innate abilities, academic or otherwise. Im sure you recognize that this line of thinking is racist. You have to recognize that the reason that lower class workers are disproportionately POC is because of racist societal structures and not because there were born with fewer abilities than white people.

I didn't get PP said race was the reason for the achievement gap but, rather, the economic situation of the parents. This has a disparate effect or is more visible in various races. But PP wasn't saying white = smart, other races = not.

Right I do get what she’s trying to say, but everybody should honestly avoid suggesting the radial achievement gap has something to do with innate abilities. At a minimum, it’s not a necessary argument because in PP’s case it’s not the teachers who are causing the gap, implicit bias or no.

Again, I didn't read it as "innate" abilities but rather what was being seen in high/low economic groups (and race groups as a proxy for SES). Lower SES has less advantages available (tutoring, having to work, having to watch siblings) that impact school (I was that lower SES growing up, but white). The argument some make is that the teachers don't cause the gap - which I agree- but should do more to close that gap (I'm not sure where I come out on that given the variety of challenges in the schools).

Ok, I’m the one who wrote “innate” and it has derailed the conversation a little bit. I don’t mean biologically or racially innate. But I mean that their aptitude is affected by a ton of things that we at school have absolutely no control over, and then we are evaluated based on whether we have magically overcome all of that, and when we have not we are told once more that we have implicit biases and that is the reason for the persistent gap.

I was more sympathetic until your last clause, because I think that is likely a glib misrepresentation. You likely do have a ton of biases that impact how you interact with students that shape your expectations, strategies etc. We all do. Someone can evaluate you and reasonably ask you to work on that without saying that you are going to magically overcome all society's inequities by doing so. You sound defensive on that point to me.

DP. No she sounds frustrated and a bit burned out. Kids have innate ability - we both acknowledge that by using aptitude tests and then deny it by saying that every one starts/ends equally. Teachers should help the kids that need more help, not be belittled for the student's aptitudes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For me it’s not about the inability to pee on my schedule. It’s about how my district and my administration tells the teachers that the reason we have a racial achievement gap is our implicit biases. That if we just tried harder then our students would all have exactly the same outcomes regardless of their hugely different home experiences and innate abilities.

This would piss me off too, but the fact that you’re attributing at least part of the racial achievement gap to these students’ innate abilities suggests that you do have a lot of implicit bias. You’re making it sound like you believe that different races have different innate abilities.

I do think that regardless of your biases, you and other teachers aren’t responsible for fixing the racial achievement gap. That’s ridiculous. But just beware that the language you use might make the admin think that they are onto something.

I’m that pp and here’s the reality in my school community. The white kids are primarily the children of upper middle class college-educated professionals. The Hispanic kids are primarily the children of non-college or high school educated blue collar workers, construction, housecleaning, etc. This is the society we live in right now in my area. People who drop out of high school generally have lesser innate academic abilities than people who graduate from college.

Okay but if you don’t want to sound biased need to avoid saying the *racial* achievement gap has something to do with any kind of innate ability. If you say it does, then you’re saying that some races are just born with more innate abilities, academic or otherwise. Im sure you recognize that this line of thinking is racist. You have to recognize that the reason that lower class workers are disproportionately POC is because of racist societal structures and not because there were born with fewer abilities than white people.

I didn't get PP said race was the reason for the achievement gap but, rather, the economic situation of the parents. This has a disparate effect or is more visible in various races. But PP wasn't saying white = smart, other races = not.

Right I do get what she’s trying to say, but everybody should honestly avoid suggesting the radial achievement gap has something to do with innate abilities. At a minimum, it’s not a necessary argument because in PP’s case it’s not the teachers who are causing the gap, implicit bias or no.

Again, I didn't read it as "innate" abilities but rather what was being seen in high/low economic groups (and race groups as a proxy for SES). Lower SES has less advantages available (tutoring, having to work, having to watch siblings) that impact school (I was that lower SES growing up, but white). The argument some make is that the teachers don't cause the gap - which I agree- but should do more to close that gap (I'm not sure where I come out on that given the variety of challenges in the schools).

Ok, I’m the one who wrote “innate” and it has derailed the conversation a little bit. I don’t mean biologically or racially innate. But I mean that their aptitude is affected by a ton of things that we at school have absolutely no control over, and then we are evaluated based on whether we have magically overcome all of that, and when we have not we are told once more that we have implicit biases and that is the reason for the persistent gap.

I was more sympathetic until your last clause, because I think that is likely a glib misrepresentation. You likely do have a ton of biases that impact how you interact with students that shape your expectations, strategies etc. We all do. Someone can evaluate you and reasonably ask you to work on that without saying that you are going to magically overcome all society's inequities by doing so. You sound defensive on that point to me.

This is not an individual evaluation I’m talking about. This is a staff meeting — actually about once a quarter — where we all look at all the student test score data and then we look at graphs breaking it down by race, and when we inevitably notice that there is a racial disparity, our meeting transitions into a professional development on implicit bias and antiracism. I’ve had three of these staff meetings so far this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FCPS just released the results from the employee engagement survey, lol. One question was a type in answer, "describe your job in 1 word". The top 4 results were:

Overwhelmed
Stressed
Exhausted
Frustrated

Yayyyyyyyyyyy!

The question: “I am optimistic about the future” didn’t fare so well.

I'm not a teacher, but I think we need to rethink how education is structured centered around what will help teachers thrive. Students will be more likely to thrive with teachers that do. Any demands on teachers--for supporting students, for admin, for adjusting to changing needs--need to be considered in the context of how can that be achieved while not undermining the fundamental need for teachers to thrive. There may be some unmet needs that it is the responsibility of society as a whole to figure out how to fund and meet those needs, not unfunded mandates placed upon schools.

US Society as a whole is a failure. Schools are supposed to educate, but we also have to feed, clothe and parent students; the minute we’re not available to do those things (see: April 2020 onward) it’s OUR fault, but the minute we suggest shifting that burden to another part of the societal safety net, the same people who screamed about closing school buildings, scream that we can’t spend the money on that type of thing.

Until teachers can get back to being teachers and not substitute parents things are just going to get worse.

It's not just parenting issues, but also ever expanding content, more access to teachers via technology from students and parents, and more expectations for teachers to post everything online/grade quickly, more requirements to provide accommodations for students with a range of learning needs etc. Each one of these things might seem reasonable but on whole the demands are unsustainable. Before new legislation is passed requiring anything or an admin creates a policy, a review of the new addition in light of a teacher's full job needs to considered--if we add this new thing, what gets taken away. If we require this, when does the time to do it during contracted hours occur?

This is getting ridiculous. Teachers used to grade things all the time. You can say that things are getting harder, but we all know that we received more grades from our teachers than our kids do.

Ok I'll say it....teachers didn't have all the extra demands from the count and ridiculous parent demands we have now. When kids were sent to the office they were dealt with and principals weren't afraid of giving consequences. Parents supported teachers and admin not question there every movement. Parents be parents tell your kids no-tell them when their behavior is not ok. I spend 85% of my day dealing with behaviors. ENOUGH! And I'm done with the do nothings in Gatehouse-we have enough of them doing nothing but creating more for teachers to do-teachers who are not in quiet office. You know what we don't have time to do TEACH-and it's not just the extras from the county it's because parents are not parenting. We shouldn't be spending more than half our day talking to your children about their behavior. For those parents who parent-thank you we see you.

+100
I was subbing the other day in a specials class and the teacher brought her class in. She looked absolutely haggard, wiped out, and exhausted as she handed me a list of her "behavioral" problems and asked me to score them while they were with me. I had them for half an hour and can't even imagine what her days are like with these kids. There couldn't possibly be any learning going on in that classroom - and not because of her. These kids need to be removed and taught separately. It is beyond unfair to pile them into a mainstream class and expect that teacher to deal with them all day, every day.

+1. This right here is the utter failure of the school board and administrators. Nothing will improve until you fix the root cause. That means voting very differently than we’re accustomed. Anyone ready for that?

Stop trying to make this political. Republicans aren't automatically going to put the special ed and ADHD kids in their own classroom. Republicans are the ones who started this crap with No Child Left Behind and making everyone teach to and give constant assessments instead of teaching to kids' strengths and weaknesses. Republicans are the ones who ruined textbooks. Saying "vote for republicans" isn't going to do anything except ban some books and take away diversity from lessons.

DP. You sound absolutely loony. What we currently have is a slate of all Democrats on the SB - and with them "in charge" we've seen the focus go very rapidly from academics to issues of "equity" and "social justice". Electing a few Republicans to balance out the madness only makes sense. I bet Republican candidates would suggest separating behavioral issue kids OUT of mainstream classes so that everyone has a chance to learn. I also bet Democrats would shoot down that idea immediately because of "equity" nonsense. And Democrats are the ones who REMOVED textbooks from the class and insist that online "textbooks" are just as good. WRONG. So incredibly misguided. As for "diversity" lessons, spare us all. Most of us - parents AND teachers - just want our kids to focus on academics. Is that really so much to ask?

This exactly.