Travel Soccer teams around NOVA let's discuss Part II

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much do the DA soccer clubs around here charge? I think I saw Spirit charges $5K. What about the others? How much do you spend on travel and other costs?

After all is said and done any non fully funded DA will run $5-8k a year.

$8k/year. Christ, better off putting that towards the college fund.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ here’s the answer: scour more than DA programs.

Talent ID sessions aren’t dragging in the majority of soccer players.

How about going to local pick up spots and teaching out into communities?

Not everyone is a rich, white yuppie that receives emails about talent ID sessions or has the means to get to them.

Most countries it’s the poorest that make it. In the US, we take our most privileged with a healthy dose of nepotism.

Of course any player is better off training abroad than a US DA team.

I love how people believe that Fairy Tales are the answer. “If only scouts went to neighborhoods” ? This isn’t how it is done anywhere. Yes, the occasional serendipitous Hollywood story happens but good soccer nations have both a high cultural literacy of the sport as well as a clearly defined youth program and playe pyramid. But this belief that scouts are driving through slums and neighborhoods just looking to watch amazing talent at pickup games as pure fantasy.

Ummm....how do you think most S.American players were discovered ?

The greatest of all time. Not out is some pussy DA system filled with local ass-kisser parents’ kids. Aka Loudoun, Arlington, etc.

They were discovered through a club structure that has a pyramid. Pro club youth programs scout local youth programs but they aren’t driving around the barrios looking for talent at pickup games. Kids play organized soccer in South America too.

Yes. And most poor kids do play for free on their neighborhood teams there and get scouted. Gabriel Jesus, Messi, Pele, etc, etc... from the slums to local team and then discovered by scouts. Quite a bit different than a pyramid requiring kids to pay 8k at the bottom.

[Anonymous]

Messi grew up blue collar but not poor in a slum. Messi played club soccer like many kids.:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Messi

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much do the DA soccer clubs around here charge? I think I saw Spirit charges $5K. What about the others? How much do you spend on travel and other costs?

After all is said and done any non fully funded DA will run $5-8k a year.

That sounds really high to me. My kid plays for Bethesda and fees are $1,200 per year. I'd have to go through the other expenses, but they are not near this estimate. There are only 2 showcases a year, and total cost for plane and hotel is around $550 for each. There are only a few league games that require overnight stays and travel to those is by bus or van. We definitely pay less than we did for non-DA club.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Messi grew up blue collar but not poor in a slum. Messi played club soccer like many kids.:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Messi

Poor. You are splitting hairs. Poor kids in this country stand almost zero chance in soccer. It’s a rich kid sport.

Basketball is different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Messi grew up blue collar but not poor in a slum. Messi played club soccer like many kids.:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Messi

Poor. You are splitting hairs. Poor kids in this country stand almost zero chance in soccer. It’s a rich kid sport.

Basketball is different.

Yes. Scouts actually go out to all of the poorest neighborhood clubs. They don't only have "ID Sessions" (many invite only) at one or two locations and expect kids to come to them. They also don't only select from "rich" kid clubs.

We can keep whining how the US is so different we can't do stuff like that here. We are just too big...blah, blah, blah. The fact that we are so big means we should be doing light years above tiny countries like Iceland with a total population the size of Arlington County.

The fact is we don't develop all players. We anoint a few at age 7-8 and those are the ones we choose to develop. At 7 or 8 nobody can tell what they will be like after puberty. And our track record shows that most of these flash-in-the pan tiny superstars aren't that great 8 years later.

We are a very closed system. Hell----the Clubs are so political that if a player chooses to leave a Club in the younger years to develop elsewhere---he or she is never welcomed/allowed back in down the road because of grudges and egos. It is the most f*cked up system in the World.

[Anonymous]

+1

Just because a player is playing well at a young age doesn’t mean his peak is further away, it just means he’s playing really well at a young age. There is barely correlation or even causation between a player’s ability at the age of 20 and their peak, as it is mere coincidence.
Messi has a god given talent and flaunted it from his earliest age onward, but that doesn’t mean every other young player who can earn a first team call-up is.

Let’s stop with this stupid notion that every good young player is definitely going to be a good old player, because it’s just wrong. “Potential” is and will remain a false god used to accord young players more attention than is good for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:+1

Just because a player is playing well at a young age doesn’t mean his peak is further away, it just means he’s playing really well at a young age. There is barely correlation or even causation between a player’s ability at the age of 20 and their peak, as it is mere coincidence.
Messi has a god given talent and flaunted it from his earliest age onward, but that doesn’t mean every other young player who can earn a first team call-up is.

Let’s stop with this stupid notion that every good young player is definitely going to be a good old player, because it’s just wrong. “Potential” is and will remain a false god used to accord young players more attention than is good for them.

And in the US we aren't even starting at age 20---we are starting to talk about it at U9

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Messi grew up blue collar but not poor in a slum. Messi played club soccer like many kids.:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Messi

Poor. You are splitting hairs. Poor kids in this country stand almost zero chance in soccer. It’s a rich kid sport.

Basketball is different.

Yes. Scouts actually go out to all of the poorest neighborhood clubs. They don't only have "ID Sessions" (many invite only) at one or two locations and expect kids to come to them. They also don't only select from "rich" kid clubs.

We can keep whining how the US is so different we can't do stuff like that here. We are just too big...blah, blah, blah. The fact that we are so big means we should be doing light years above tiny countries like Iceland with a total population the size of Arlington County.

The fact is we don't develop all players. We anoint a few at age 7-8 and those are the ones we choose to develop. At 7 or 8 nobody can tell what they will be like after puberty. And our track record shows that most of these flash-in-the pan tiny superstars aren't that great 8 years later.

We are a very closed system. Hell----the Clubs are so political that if a player chooses to leave a Club in the younger years to develop elsewhere---he or she is never welcomed/allowed back in down the road because of grudges and egos. It is the most f*cked up system in the World.

And yet Messi was found in a very traditional club soccer environment. There was no driving by an alley and seeing him play. Funny how we don’t make these same crutch arguments for scouting in our sports. I’m trying to think of that HOF Major League slugger who was seen playing stickball in Brooklyn.

Even though LeBron James was poor he was still discorved in a very traditional AAU Basketball as well as high school. A wise coach who recognized his talent took him in to give him a stable home life but he still was not discovered in a alley playing pickup basketball. These fairytales do not exist. Dominating the neighborhood does not translate to dominating the regions best. The only way to demonstrate dominance is to play against better and better kids and sorry but that just does not happen in pickup games.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Messi grew up blue collar but not poor in a slum. Messi played club soccer like many kids.:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Messi

Poor. You are splitting hairs. Poor kids in this country stand almost zero chance in soccer. It’s a rich kid sport.

Basketball is different.

Yes. Scouts actually go out to all of the poorest neighborhood clubs. They don't only have "ID Sessions" (many invite only) at one or two locations and expect kids to come to them. They also don't only select from "rich" kid clubs.

We can keep whining how the US is so different we can't do stuff like that here. We are just too big...blah, blah, blah. The fact that we are so big means we should be doing light years above tiny countries like Iceland with a total population the size of Arlington County.

The fact is we don't develop all players. We anoint a few at age 7-8 and those are the ones we choose to develop. At 7 or 8 nobody can tell what they will be like after puberty. And our track record shows that most of these flash-in-the pan tiny superstars aren't that great 8 years later.

We are a very closed system. Hell----the Clubs are so political that if a player chooses to leave a Club in the younger years to develop elsewhere---he or she is never welcomed/allowed back in down the road because of grudges and egos. It is the most f*cked up system in the World.

And yet Messi was found in a very traditional club soccer environment. There was no driving by an alley and seeing him play. Funny how we don’t make these same crutch arguments for scouting in our sports. I’m trying to think of that HOF Major League slugger who was seen playing stickball in Brooklyn.

Even though LeBron James was poor he was still discorved in a very traditional AAU Basketball as well as high school. A wise coach who recognized his talent took him in to give him a stable home life but he still was not discovered in a alley playing pickup basketball. These fairytales do not exist. Dominating the neighborhood does not translate to dominating the regions best. The only way to demonstrate dominance is to play against better and better kids and sorry but that just does not happen in pickup games.

As a young boy, Lionel Messi tagged along when his two older brothers played soccer with their friends, unintimidated by the bigger boys. At the age of eight, he was recruited to join the youth system of Newell's Old Boys, a Rosario-based club.

We do NOT have the same type of system. I don't know why you keep insisting we do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:+1

Just because a player is playing well at a young age doesn’t mean his peak is further away, it just means he’s playing really well at a young age. There is barely correlation or even causation between a player’s ability at the age of 20 and their peak, as it is mere coincidence.
Messi has a god given talent and flaunted it from his earliest age onward, but that doesn’t mean every other young player who can earn a first team call-up is.

Let’s stop with this stupid notion that every good young player is definitely going to be a good old player, because it’s just wrong. “Potential” is and will remain a false god used to accord young players more attention than is good for them.

And in the US we aren't even starting at age 20---we are starting to talk about it at U9

+ 1 million............................++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Messi grew up blue collar but not poor in a slum. Messi played club soccer like many kids.:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Messi

Poor. You are splitting hairs. Poor kids in this country stand almost zero chance in soccer. It’s a rich kid sport.

Basketball is different.

Yes. Scouts actually go out to all of the poorest neighborhood clubs. They don't only have "ID Sessions" (many invite only) at one or two locations and expect kids to come to them. They also don't only select from "rich" kid clubs.

We can keep whining how the US is so different we can't do stuff like that here. We are just too big...blah, blah, blah. The fact that we are so big means we should be doing light years above tiny countries like Iceland with a total population the size of Arlington County.

The fact is we don't develop all players. We anoint a few at age 7-8 and those are the ones we choose to develop. At 7 or 8 nobody can tell what they will be like after puberty. And our track record shows that most of these flash-in-the pan tiny superstars aren't that great 8 years later.

We are a very closed system. Hell----the Clubs are so political that if a player chooses to leave a Club in the younger years to develop elsewhere---he or she is never welcomed/allowed back in down the road because of grudges and egos. It is the most f*cked up system in the World.

And yet Messi was found in a very traditional club soccer environment. There was no driving by an alley and seeing him play. Funny how we don’t make these same crutch arguments for scouting in our sports. I’m trying to think of that HOF Major League slugger who was seen playing stickball in Brooklyn.

Even though LeBron James was poor he was still discorved in a very traditional AAU Basketball as well as high school. A wise coach who recognized his talent took him in to give him a stable home life but he still was not discovered in a alley playing pickup basketball. These fairytales do not exist. Dominating the neighborhood does not translate to dominating the regions best. The only way to demonstrate dominance is to play against better and better kids and sorry but that just does not happen in pickup games.

As a young boy, Lionel Messi tagged along when his two older brothers played soccer with their friends, unintimidated by the bigger boys. At the age of eight, he was recruited to join the youth system of Newell's Old Boys, a Rosario-based club.

We do NOT have the same type of system. I don't know why you keep insisting we do.

I am not saying that we do have the same system. I am saying that kids are not discovered in pickup games in slums. I am saying that they are discovered in traditional club settings. Just because the pyramid of their club system is slightly different than ours does not mean that it is not traditional.

And, in spite of all of that only Barcelona was willing to spend the money on his hormone treatment.

[Anonymous]

My players would have been left without a team or club and many unable to catch on with a team either due to logistics or affordability. If you think players don't fall through the cracks you need to come back to reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My players would have been left without a team or club and many unable to catch on with a team either due to logistics or affordability. If you think players don't fall through the cracks you need to come back to reality.

Different poster, but I'm sure there are tons of players who fall through the cracks here. What I don't believe is that these kids all are super stars who are more talented than those in the system. There are enough kids in TX and Southern California alone who are in the system (many of them from low-income families) to make us a top soccer nation if we had the training and pro opportunities easily available to kids in established soccer countries. Our youth national teams are almost always competitive against international competition up to a certain age, but fall off due to the lack of good training. Pulisic's interview and comments about the years from 16 to 18 should be required reading for everyone who cares about this issue (or even just wants to sound somewhat intelligent pontificating on a message board thread that maybe 19 other people read).

[Anonymous]

I agree 16-18 is a crucial age for development but it can get brushed off here, a lot of the attention lies with the younger ages because there's more money there.