MCPS to end areawide Blair Magnet and countywide Richard Montgomery's IB program

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:make sure you're looking at the most recent region groupings. The link on the MCPS message to region maps was an old version. Not all regions are east-to-west anymore.

Do you have a link to the new maps?

Starting on slide 23: https://go.boarddocs.com/mabe/mcpsmd/Board.nsf/files/DJVQ4P6782A9/$file/Sec%20Prog%20Analysis%20Boundary%20Studies%20Engaga%20Plan%20Update%20250724%20PPT.pdf

So, they are going with option #5? - pg 26.

DP. Yes. I think these boundaries balance higher and lower SES, and harmony of communities as much as possible. You cannot ignore harmony. I know a student from a very different community who was bussed into a program due to its opportunity at the insistence of their parent. That student was miserable and was elated at switching to a school community they could better resonate with at the first opportunity.

No one wants forced bussing. The best option is to put more money in the schools that don’t have much and make them equal. The disparities are significant. A smart kid at a w school can get all their classes and academics met. A smart kid dcc is forced to another school, Mc or go without. They don’t allow homeschooling or independent study or virtual classes outside Mcps. Or, at least being back virtual so it aligns with MCPS schedules.

The demographics are changing in mcps in the dcc due to crazy housing prices.

Blair is a great program but not for all kids. Not all kids want a magnet and prefer to choose their own classes and those kids should get the same opportunities. One reason why dcc kids try for Blair is the other schools don’t have the academics and they leave which causes the low scores.

I think this is part of what MCPS is trying to figure out, and I credit Taylor with at least tackling it. My understanding is that they are going to make sure every school has a baseline number of advanced classes, and that they are currently auditing what is available where.

But we also need to be realistic and aim for what is possible. I think making sure every HS has AP Calculus BC is sufficient, and then bringing back virtual for MVC for some kids.

What other courses do you think every school should be offering?

MVC

there are not enough students interested in MVC in each HS to offer it. If we had unlimited funding, sure. But, we don't. Plus, good luck finding good teachers to teach mvc at every HS.

I know nothing about MVC so am curious what folks think-- is it better to take MVC virtually from a good teacher (both good at teaching MVC and good at online teaching), or to take it locally with a poor or mediocre teacher?

(I know some individual kids really struggle with virtual learning, but I'm talking about the majority of kids here.)

I'm a university faculty, and I had supervised an undergrad from a mediocre university before through the REU program. He was in English major, but happened to take an astronomy class for fun, and the professor who taught that class found him smart, so recommended to me to do some data analysis work. He started to learn coding all by himself from scratch, and at the end of that summer, he completed his work and we finished a scientific paper together later that year. He applied to a graduate program for astronomy major in a prestigious university, and got an offer. Now he is a PhD candidate there. I once asked him why he chose English as his major. And he told me he had a really bad experience in Calc BC class back in HS, that made him hating math so much, until he took the astronomy class, and finally found his true love and true talent. This is how a good or a bad HS teacher could impact...

Okay, so is that a vote for prioritizing getting good teachers and having them teach virtually if you can't get enough good MVC teachers for all the high schools, over having an in-person MVC teacher at all high schools even if they're a bad teacher?

As a parent, my opinion doesn't matter. Ppl on this board said we should listen to Taylor or Hazel who have education PhDs and hence who should be the experts, neglecting the fact that they didn't know the magnet curriculum, and didn't care how to expand the curriculum nor how to train or find qualified teachers. Nicky Hazel even spelled "cosmology" wrong under the "STEM" example course offering in her slides (she spelled "cosmetology"). So whatever the hell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:make sure you're looking at the most recent region groupings. The link on the MCPS message to region maps was an old version. Not all regions are east-to-west anymore.

Do you have a link to the new maps?

Starting on slide 23: https://go.boarddocs.com/mabe/mcpsmd/Board.nsf/files/DJVQ4P6782A9/$file/Sec%20Prog%20Analysis%20Boundary%20Studies%20Engaga%20Plan%20Update%20250724%20PPT.pdf

So, they are going with option #5? - pg 26.

DP. Yes. I think these boundaries balance higher and lower SES, and harmony of communities as much as possible. You cannot ignore harmony. I know a student from a very different community who was bussed into a program due to its opportunity at the insistence of their parent. That student was miserable and was elated at switching to a school community they could better resonate with at the first opportunity.

No one wants forced bussing. The best option is to put more money in the schools that don’t have much and make them equal. The disparities are significant. A smart kid at a w school can get all their classes and academics met. A smart kid dcc is forced to another school, Mc or go without. They don’t allow homeschooling or independent study or virtual classes outside Mcps. Or, at least being back virtual so it aligns with MCPS schedules.

The demographics are changing in mcps in the dcc due to crazy housing prices.

Blair is a great program but not for all kids. Not all kids want a magnet and prefer to choose their own classes and those kids should get the same opportunities. One reason why dcc kids try for Blair is the other schools don’t have the academics and they leave which causes the low scores.

I think this is part of what MCPS is trying to figure out, and I credit Taylor with at least tackling it. My understanding is that they are going to make sure every school has a baseline number of advanced classes, and that they are currently auditing what is available where.

But we also need to be realistic and aim for what is possible. I think making sure every HS has AP Calculus BC is sufficient, and then bringing back virtual for MVC for some kids.

What other courses do you think every school should be offering?

Does MCPS have enough good math teachers to teach AP BC calc in every HS? There's a shortage of STEM teachers. I don't think MCPS can find enough good teachers for math.

My kid wanted to take AB Calc but the teacher was so bad that they downgraded to Applied Calc. A bad math teacher can make the class awful, and the kid to hate math.

Then fix that part. But saying that there shouldn't be an advanced math class in every HS is terrible. And yes some schools may only offer one AP calc class and have 10 kids. That's ok. But someone will complain that too many resources are used on the 10 kids in that school while a W school has to have 3 sections of 30 kids in calculus and won't get funding for a 4th.

A HS doesn’t need to have THE most advanced math offerings. It has to have a path to deliver those to students who need them even if it means said student(s) attend virtually or on a college campus. And given the level of tutoring that goes on at some of these schools, some of these kids would do well to slow down instead of rushing to MV or Linear Algebra.

People are going to complain no matter what. So let’s acknowledge that, accept it, and move on. Kids in all parts of the county should be able to get a well rounded education that sets them up to be competitive post HS regardless if they choose college or career. That’s the base. All kids should have access to enriching and challenging opportunities (field trips, clubs/organizations, capstones with supporting classes, etc).

Until that is worked out I care zero about offering classes like Linear Algebra or Organic Chemistry. And frankly, I haven’t spoken with anyone on the collegiate level who is seeking or requiring students to have tackled such in order to be competitive. Yes I want gifted and advanced students to be challenged, but that doesn’t mean that every option is going to be available at the HS level.

Agreed. No one needs to take MV Calc in high school.

And, yes, both my kids took BC Calc in 11th. One had access to MV in 12th and one didn’t. It’s fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:make sure you're looking at the most recent region groupings. The link on the MCPS message to region maps was an old version. Not all regions are east-to-west anymore.

Do you have a link to the new maps?

Starting on slide 23: https://go.boarddocs.com/mabe/mcpsmd/Board.nsf/files/DJVQ4P6782A9/$file/Sec%20Prog%20Analysis%20Boundary%20Studies%20Engaga%20Plan%20Update%20250724%20PPT.pdf

So, they are going with option #5? - pg 26.

DP. Yes. I think these boundaries balance higher and lower SES, and harmony of communities as much as possible. You cannot ignore harmony. I know a student from a very different community who was bussed into a program due to its opportunity at the insistence of their parent. That student was miserable and was elated at switching to a school community they could better resonate with at the first opportunity.

No one wants forced bussing. The best option is to put more money in the schools that don’t have much and make them equal. The disparities are significant. A smart kid at a w school can get all their classes and academics met. A smart kid dcc is forced to another school, Mc or go without. They don’t allow homeschooling or independent study or virtual classes outside Mcps. Or, at least being back virtual so it aligns with MCPS schedules.

The demographics are changing in mcps in the dcc due to crazy housing prices.

Blair is a great program but not for all kids. Not all kids want a magnet and prefer to choose their own classes and those kids should get the same opportunities. One reason why dcc kids try for Blair is the other schools don’t have the academics and they leave which causes the low scores.

I think this is part of what MCPS is trying to figure out, and I credit Taylor with at least tackling it. My understanding is that they are going to make sure every school has a baseline number of advanced classes, and that they are currently auditing what is available where.

But we also need to be realistic and aim for what is possible. I think making sure every HS has AP Calculus BC is sufficient, and then bringing back virtual for MVC for some kids.

What other courses do you think every school should be offering?

Does MCPS have enough good math teachers to teach AP BC calc in every HS? There's a shortage of STEM teachers. I don't think MCPS can find enough good teachers for math.

My kid wanted to take AB Calc but the teacher was so bad that they downgraded to Applied Calc. A bad math teacher can make the class awful, and the kid to hate math.

Then fix that part. But saying that there shouldn't be an advanced math class in every HS is terrible. And yes some schools may only offer one AP calc class and have 10 kids. That's ok. But someone will complain that too many resources are used on the 10 kids in that school while a W school has to have 3 sections of 30 kids in calculus and won't get funding for a 4th.

A HS doesn’t need to have THE most advanced math offerings. It has to have a path to deliver those to students who need them even if it means said student(s) attend virtually or on a college campus. And given the level of tutoring that goes on at some of these schools, some of these kids would do well to slow down instead of rushing to MV or Linear Algebra.

People are going to complain no matter what. So let’s acknowledge that, accept it, and move on. Kids in all parts of the county should be able to get a well rounded education that sets them up to be competitive post HS regardless if they choose college or career. That’s the base. All kids should have access to enriching and challenging opportunities (field trips, clubs/organizations, capstones with supporting classes, etc).

Until that is worked out I care zero about offering classes like Linear Algebra or Organic Chemistry. And frankly, I haven’t spoken with anyone on the collegiate level who is seeking or requiring students to have tackled such in order to be competitive. Yes I want gifted and advanced students to be challenged, but that doesn’t mean that every option is going to be available at the HS level.

Agreed. No one needs to take MV Calc in high school.

And, yes, both my kids took BC Calc in 11th. One had access to MV in 12th and one didn’t. It’s fine.

So, by your logic no one should get advanced classes or Mv. No, it should be offered at all schools. Mcps has an obligation to provide four years of math as a graduation requirement.

And, yes, it’s needed for the better stem colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:make sure you're looking at the most recent region groupings. The link on the MCPS message to region maps was an old version. Not all regions are east-to-west anymore.

Do you have a link to the new maps?

Starting on slide 23: https://go.boarddocs.com/mabe/mcpsmd/Board.nsf/files/DJVQ4P6782A9/$file/Sec%20Prog%20Analysis%20Boundary%20Studies%20Engaga%20Plan%20Update%20250724%20PPT.pdf

So, they are going with option #5? - pg 26.

DP. Yes. I think these boundaries balance higher and lower SES, and harmony of communities as much as possible. You cannot ignore harmony. I know a student from a very different community who was bussed into a program due to its opportunity at the insistence of their parent. That student was miserable and was elated at switching to a school community they could better resonate with at the first opportunity.

No one wants forced bussing. The best option is to put more money in the schools that don’t have much and make them equal. The disparities are significant. A smart kid at a w school can get all their classes and academics met. A smart kid dcc is forced to another school, Mc or go without. They don’t allow homeschooling or independent study or virtual classes outside Mcps. Or, at least being back virtual so it aligns with MCPS schedules.

The demographics are changing in mcps in the dcc due to crazy housing prices.

Blair is a great program but not for all kids. Not all kids want a magnet and prefer to choose their own classes and those kids should get the same opportunities. One reason why dcc kids try for Blair is the other schools don’t have the academics and they leave which causes the low scores.

I think this is part of what MCPS is trying to figure out, and I credit Taylor with at least tackling it. My understanding is that they are going to make sure every school has a baseline number of advanced classes, and that they are currently auditing what is available where.

But we also need to be realistic and aim for what is possible. I think making sure every HS has AP Calculus BC is sufficient, and then bringing back virtual for MVC for some kids.

What other courses do you think every school should be offering?

MVC

there are not enough students interested in MVC in each HS to offer it. If we had unlimited funding, sure. But, we don't. Plus, good luck finding good teachers to teach mvc at every HS.

I know nothing about MVC so am curious what folks think-- is it better to take MVC virtually from a good teacher (both good at teaching MVC and good at online teaching), or to take it locally with a poor or mediocre teacher?

(I know some individual kids really struggle with virtual learning, but I'm talking about the majority of kids here.)

I'm a university faculty, and I had supervised an undergrad from a mediocre university before through the REU program. He was in English major, but happened to take an astronomy class for fun, and the professor who taught that class found him smart, so recommended to me to do some data analysis work. He started to learn coding all by himself from scratch, and at the end of that summer, he completed his work and we finished a scientific paper together later that year. He applied to a graduate program for astronomy major in a prestigious university, and got an offer. Now he is a PhD candidate there. I once asked him why he chose English as his major. And he told me he had a really bad experience in Calc BC class back in HS, that made him hating math so much, until he took the astronomy class, and finally found his true love and true talent. This is how a good or a bad HS teacher could impact...

Okay, so is that a vote for prioritizing getting good teachers and having them teach virtually if you can't get enough good MVC teachers for all the high schools, over having an in-person MVC teacher at all high schools even if they're a bad teacher?

As a parent, my opinion doesn't matter. Ppl on this board said we should listen to Taylor or Hazel who have education PhDs and hence who should be the experts, neglecting the fact that they didn't know the magnet curriculum, and didn't care how to expand the curriculum nor how to train or find qualified teachers. Nicky Hazel even spelled "cosmology" wrong under the "STEM" example course offering in her slides (she spelled "cosmetology"). So whatever the hell.

Have you looked at where some are getting their PhD. Many are online at not good schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:make sure you're looking at the most recent region groupings. The link on the MCPS message to region maps was an old version. Not all regions are east-to-west anymore.

Do you have a link to the new maps?

Starting on slide 23: https://go.boarddocs.com/mabe/mcpsmd/Board.nsf/files/DJVQ4P6782A9/$file/Sec%20Prog%20Analysis%20Boundary%20Studies%20Engaga%20Plan%20Update%20250724%20PPT.pdf

So, they are going with option #5? - pg 26.

DP. Yes. I think these boundaries balance higher and lower SES, and harmony of communities as much as possible. You cannot ignore harmony. I know a student from a very different community who was bussed into a program due to its opportunity at the insistence of their parent. That student was miserable and was elated at switching to a school community they could better resonate with at the first opportunity.

No one wants forced bussing. The best option is to put more money in the schools that don’t have much and make them equal. The disparities are significant. A smart kid at a w school can get all their classes and academics met. A smart kid dcc is forced to another school, Mc or go without. They don’t allow homeschooling or independent study or virtual classes outside Mcps. Or, at least being back virtual so it aligns with MCPS schedules.

The demographics are changing in mcps in the dcc due to crazy housing prices.

Blair is a great program but not for all kids. Not all kids want a magnet and prefer to choose their own classes and those kids should get the same opportunities. One reason why dcc kids try for Blair is the other schools don’t have the academics and they leave which causes the low scores.

I think this is part of what MCPS is trying to figure out, and I credit Taylor with at least tackling it. My understanding is that they are going to make sure every school has a baseline number of advanced classes, and that they are currently auditing what is available where.

But we also need to be realistic and aim for what is possible. I think making sure every HS has AP Calculus BC is sufficient, and then bringing back virtual for MVC for some kids.

What other courses do you think every school should be offering?

Does MCPS have enough good math teachers to teach AP BC calc in every HS? There's a shortage of STEM teachers. I don't think MCPS can find enough good teachers for math.

My kid wanted to take AB Calc but the teacher was so bad that they downgraded to Applied Calc. A bad math teacher can make the class awful, and the kid to hate math.

Then fix that part. But saying that there shouldn't be an advanced math class in every HS is terrible. And yes some schools may only offer one AP calc class and have 10 kids. That's ok. But someone will complain that too many resources are used on the 10 kids in that school while a W school has to have 3 sections of 30 kids in calculus and won't get funding for a 4th.

A HS doesn’t need to have THE most advanced math offerings. It has to have a path to deliver those to students who need them even if it means said student(s) attend virtually or on a college campus. And given the level of tutoring that goes on at some of these schools, some of these kids would do well to slow down instead of rushing to MV or Linear Algebra.

People are going to complain no matter what. So let’s acknowledge that, accept it, and move on. Kids in all parts of the county should be able to get a well rounded education that sets them up to be competitive post HS regardless if they choose college or career. That’s the base. All kids should have access to enriching and challenging opportunities (field trips, clubs/organizations, capstones with supporting classes, etc).

Until that is worked out I care zero about offering classes like Linear Algebra or Organic Chemistry. And frankly, I haven’t spoken with anyone on the collegiate level who is seeking or requiring students to have tackled such in order to be competitive. Yes I want gifted and advanced students to be challenged, but that doesn’t mean that every option is going to be available at the HS level.

Agreed. No one needs to take MV Calc in high school.

And, yes, both my kids took BC Calc in 11th. One had access to MV in 12th and one didn’t. It’s fine.

So, by your logic no one should get advanced classes or Mv. No, it should be offered at all schools. Mcps has an obligation to provide four years of math as a graduation requirement.

And, yes, it’s needed for the better stem colleges.

Take those classes through dual enrollment at Montgomery College. Paid for by MCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:make sure you're looking at the most recent region groupings. The link on the MCPS message to region maps was an old version. Not all regions are east-to-west anymore.

Do you have a link to the new maps?

Starting on slide 23: https://go.boarddocs.com/mabe/mcpsmd/Board.nsf/files/DJVQ4P6782A9/$file/Sec%20Prog%20Analysis%20Boundary%20Studies%20Engaga%20Plan%20Update%20250724%20PPT.pdf

So, they are going with option #5? - pg 26.

DP. Yes. I think these boundaries balance higher and lower SES, and harmony of communities as much as possible. You cannot ignore harmony. I know a student from a very different community who was bussed into a program due to its opportunity at the insistence of their parent. That student was miserable and was elated at switching to a school community they could better resonate with at the first opportunity.

No one wants forced bussing. The best option is to put more money in the schools that don’t have much and make them equal. The disparities are significant. A smart kid at a w school can get all their classes and academics met. A smart kid dcc is forced to another school, Mc or go without. They don’t allow homeschooling or independent study or virtual classes outside Mcps. Or, at least being back virtual so it aligns with MCPS schedules.

The demographics are changing in mcps in the dcc due to crazy housing prices.

Blair is a great program but not for all kids. Not all kids want a magnet and prefer to choose their own classes and those kids should get the same opportunities. One reason why dcc kids try for Blair is the other schools don’t have the academics and they leave which causes the low scores.

I think this is part of what MCPS is trying to figure out, and I credit Taylor with at least tackling it. My understanding is that they are going to make sure every school has a baseline number of advanced classes, and that they are currently auditing what is available where.

But we also need to be realistic and aim for what is possible. I think making sure every HS has AP Calculus BC is sufficient, and then bringing back virtual for MVC for some kids.

What other courses do you think every school should be offering?

MVC

there are not enough students interested in MVC in each HS to offer it. If we had unlimited funding, sure. But, we don't. Plus, good luck finding good teachers to teach mvc at every HS.

I know nothing about MVC so am curious what folks think-- is it better to take MVC virtually from a good teacher (both good at teaching MVC and good at online teaching), or to take it locally with a poor or mediocre teacher?

(I know some individual kids really struggle with virtual learning, but I'm talking about the majority of kids here.)

I'm a university faculty, and I had supervised an undergrad from a mediocre university before through the REU program. He was in English major, but happened to take an astronomy class for fun, and the professor who taught that class found him smart, so recommended to me to do some data analysis work. He started to learn coding all by himself from scratch, and at the end of that summer, he completed his work and we finished a scientific paper together later that year. He applied to a graduate program for astronomy major in a prestigious university, and got an offer. Now he is a PhD candidate there. I once asked him why he chose English as his major. And he told me he had a really bad experience in Calc BC class back in HS, that made him hating math so much, until he took the astronomy class, and finally found his true love and true talent. This is how a good or a bad HS teacher could impact...

Okay, so is that a vote for prioritizing getting good teachers and having them teach virtually if you can't get enough good MVC teachers for all the high schools, over having an in-person MVC teacher at all high schools even if they're a bad teacher?

As a parent, my opinion doesn't matter. Ppl on this board said we should listen to Taylor or Hazel who have education PhDs and hence who should be the experts, neglecting the fact that they didn't know the magnet curriculum, and didn't care how to expand the curriculum nor how to train or find qualified teachers. Nicky Hazel even spelled "cosmology" wrong under the "STEM" example course offering in her slides (she spelled "cosmetology"). So whatever the hell.

Taylor doesn't have a PhD; he has an EdD (lower bar). Hazel has a master's degree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:make sure you're looking at the most recent region groupings. The link on the MCPS message to region maps was an old version. Not all regions are east-to-west anymore.

Do you have a link to the new maps?

Starting on slide 23: https://go.boarddocs.com/mabe/mcpsmd/Board.nsf/files/DJVQ4P6782A9/$file/Sec%20Prog%20Analysis%20Boundary%20Studies%20Engaga%20Plan%20Update%20250724%20PPT.pdf

So, they are going with option #5? - pg 26.

DP. Yes. I think these boundaries balance higher and lower SES, and harmony of communities as much as possible. You cannot ignore harmony. I know a student from a very different community who was bussed into a program due to its opportunity at the insistence of their parent. That student was miserable and was elated at switching to a school community they could better resonate with at the first opportunity.

No one wants forced bussing. The best option is to put more money in the schools that don’t have much and make them equal. The disparities are significant. A smart kid at a w school can get all their classes and academics met. A smart kid dcc is forced to another school, Mc or go without. They don’t allow homeschooling or independent study or virtual classes outside Mcps. Or, at least being back virtual so it aligns with MCPS schedules.

The demographics are changing in mcps in the dcc due to crazy housing prices.

Blair is a great program but not for all kids. Not all kids want a magnet and prefer to choose their own classes and those kids should get the same opportunities. One reason why dcc kids try for Blair is the other schools don’t have the academics and they leave which causes the low scores.

I think this is part of what MCPS is trying to figure out, and I credit Taylor with at least tackling it. My understanding is that they are going to make sure every school has a baseline number of advanced classes, and that they are currently auditing what is available where.

But we also need to be realistic and aim for what is possible. I think making sure every HS has AP Calculus BC is sufficient, and then bringing back virtual for MVC for some kids.

What other courses do you think every school should be offering?

MVC

there are not enough students interested in MVC in each HS to offer it. If we had unlimited funding, sure. But, we don't. Plus, good luck finding good teachers to teach mvc at every HS.

I know nothing about MVC so am curious what folks think-- is it better to take MVC virtually from a good teacher (both good at teaching MVC and good at online teaching), or to take it locally with a poor or mediocre teacher?

(I know some individual kids really struggle with virtual learning, but I'm talking about the majority of kids here.)

I'm a university faculty, and I had supervised an undergrad from a mediocre university before through the REU program. He was in English major, but happened to take an astronomy class for fun, and the professor who taught that class found him smart, so recommended to me to do some data analysis work. He started to learn coding all by himself from scratch, and at the end of that summer, he completed his work and we finished a scientific paper together later that year. He applied to a graduate program for astronomy major in a prestigious university, and got an offer. Now he is a PhD candidate there. I once asked him why he chose English as his major. And he told me he had a really bad experience in Calc BC class back in HS, that made him hating math so much, until he took the astronomy class, and finally found his true love and true talent. This is how a good or a bad HS teacher could impact...

Okay, so is that a vote for prioritizing getting good teachers and having them teach virtually if you can't get enough good MVC teachers for all the high schools, over having an in-person MVC teacher at all high schools even if they're a bad teacher?

As a parent, my opinion doesn't matter. Ppl on this board said we should listen to Taylor or Hazel who have education PhDs and hence who should be the experts, neglecting the fact that they didn't know the magnet curriculum, and didn't care how to expand the curriculum nor how to train or find qualified teachers. Nicky Hazel even spelled "cosmology" wrong under the "STEM" example course offering in her slides (she spelled "cosmetology"). So whatever the hell.

Taylor doesn't have a PhD; he has an EdD (lower bar). Hazel has a master's degree.

Good grief he has a doctorate in education (a terminal degree) from the University of Virginia. Hazel’s masters is from the University of Pennsylvania. Are we really going to be snobs about their education or can we focus on substance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:make sure you're looking at the most recent region groupings. The link on the MCPS message to region maps was an old version. Not all regions are east-to-west anymore.

Do you have a link to the new maps?

Starting on slide 23: https://go.boarddocs.com/mabe/mcpsmd/Board.nsf/files/DJVQ4P6782A9/$file/Sec%20Prog%20Analysis%20Boundary%20Studies%20Engaga%20Plan%20Update%20250724%20PPT.pdf

So, they are going with option #5? - pg 26.

DP. Yes. I think these boundaries balance higher and lower SES, and harmony of communities as much as possible. You cannot ignore harmony. I know a student from a very different community who was bussed into a program due to its opportunity at the insistence of their parent. That student was miserable and was elated at switching to a school community they could better resonate with at the first opportunity.

No one wants forced bussing. The best option is to put more money in the schools that don’t have much and make them equal. The disparities are significant. A smart kid at a w school can get all their classes and academics met. A smart kid dcc is forced to another school, Mc or go without. They don’t allow homeschooling or independent study or virtual classes outside Mcps. Or, at least being back virtual so it aligns with MCPS schedules.

The demographics are changing in mcps in the dcc due to crazy housing prices.

Blair is a great program but not for all kids. Not all kids want a magnet and prefer to choose their own classes and those kids should get the same opportunities. One reason why dcc kids try for Blair is the other schools don’t have the academics and they leave which causes the low scores.

I think this is part of what MCPS is trying to figure out, and I credit Taylor with at least tackling it. My understanding is that they are going to make sure every school has a baseline number of advanced classes, and that they are currently auditing what is available where.

But we also need to be realistic and aim for what is possible. I think making sure every HS has AP Calculus BC is sufficient, and then bringing back virtual for MVC for some kids.

What other courses do you think every school should be offering?

Does MCPS have enough good math teachers to teach AP BC calc in every HS? There's a shortage of STEM teachers. I don't think MCPS can find enough good teachers for math.

My kid wanted to take AB Calc but the teacher was so bad that they downgraded to Applied Calc. A bad math teacher can make the class awful, and the kid to hate math.

Then fix that part. But saying that there shouldn't be an advanced math class in every HS is terrible. And yes some schools may only offer one AP calc class and have 10 kids. That's ok. But someone will complain that too many resources are used on the 10 kids in that school while a W school has to have 3 sections of 30 kids in calculus and won't get funding for a 4th.

A HS doesn’t need to have THE most advanced math offerings. It has to have a path to deliver those to students who need them even if it means said student(s) attend virtually or on a college campus. And given the level of tutoring that goes on at some of these schools, some of these kids would do well to slow down instead of rushing to MV or Linear Algebra.

People are going to complain no matter what. So let’s acknowledge that, accept it, and move on. Kids in all parts of the county should be able to get a well rounded education that sets them up to be competitive post HS regardless if they choose college or career. That’s the base. All kids should have access to enriching and challenging opportunities (field trips, clubs/organizations, capstones with supporting classes, etc).

Until that is worked out I care zero about offering classes like Linear Algebra or Organic Chemistry. And frankly, I haven’t spoken with anyone on the collegiate level who is seeking or requiring students to have tackled such in order to be competitive. Yes I want gifted and advanced students to be challenged, but that doesn’t mean that every option is going to be available at the HS level.

Agreed. No one needs to take MV Calc in high school.

And, yes, both my kids took BC Calc in 11th. One had access to MV in 12th and one didn’t. It’s fine.

So, by your logic no one should get advanced classes or Mv. No, it should be offered at all schools. Mcps has an obligation to provide four years of math as a graduation requirement.

And, yes, it’s needed for the better stem colleges.

I call BS. No kid is getting turned away from college for not taking multiple years of college math in high school, especially if the courses aren’t even offered.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:make sure you're looking at the most recent region groupings. The link on the MCPS message to region maps was an old version. Not all regions are east-to-west anymore.

Do you have a link to the new maps?

Starting on slide 23: https://go.boarddocs.com/mabe/mcpsmd/Board.nsf/files/DJVQ4P6782A9/$file/Sec%20Prog%20Analysis%20Boundary%20Studies%20Engaga%20Plan%20Update%20250724%20PPT.pdf

So, they are going with option #5? - pg 26.

DP. Yes. I think these boundaries balance higher and lower SES, and harmony of communities as much as possible. You cannot ignore harmony. I know a student from a very different community who was bussed into a program due to its opportunity at the insistence of their parent. That student was miserable and was elated at switching to a school community they could better resonate with at the first opportunity.

No one wants forced bussing. The best option is to put more money in the schools that don’t have much and make them equal. The disparities are significant. A smart kid at a w school can get all their classes and academics met. A smart kid dcc is forced to another school, Mc or go without. They don’t allow homeschooling or independent study or virtual classes outside Mcps. Or, at least being back virtual so it aligns with MCPS schedules.

The demographics are changing in mcps in the dcc due to crazy housing prices.

Blair is a great program but not for all kids. Not all kids want a magnet and prefer to choose their own classes and those kids should get the same opportunities. One reason why dcc kids try for Blair is the other schools don’t have the academics and they leave which causes the low scores.

I think this is part of what MCPS is trying to figure out, and I credit Taylor with at least tackling it. My understanding is that they are going to make sure every school has a baseline number of advanced classes, and that they are currently auditing what is available where.

But we also need to be realistic and aim for what is possible. I think making sure every HS has AP Calculus BC is sufficient, and then bringing back virtual for MVC for some kids.

What other courses do you think every school should be offering?

Does MCPS have enough good math teachers to teach AP BC calc in every HS? There's a shortage of STEM teachers. I don't think MCPS can find enough good teachers for math.

My kid wanted to take AB Calc but the teacher was so bad that they downgraded to Applied Calc. A bad math teacher can make the class awful, and the kid to hate math.

Then fix that part. But saying that there shouldn't be an advanced math class in every HS is terrible. And yes some schools may only offer one AP calc class and have 10 kids. That's ok. But someone will complain that too many resources are used on the 10 kids in that school while a W school has to have 3 sections of 30 kids in calculus and won't get funding for a 4th.

A HS doesn’t need to have THE most advanced math offerings. It has to have a path to deliver those to students who need them even if it means said student(s) attend virtually or on a college campus. And given the level of tutoring that goes on at some of these schools, some of these kids would do well to slow down instead of rushing to MV or Linear Algebra.

People are going to complain no matter what. So let’s acknowledge that, accept it, and move on. Kids in all parts of the county should be able to get a well rounded education that sets them up to be competitive post HS regardless if they choose college or career. That’s the base. All kids should have access to enriching and challenging opportunities (field trips, clubs/organizations, capstones with supporting classes, etc).

Until that is worked out I care zero about offering classes like Linear Algebra or Organic Chemistry. And frankly, I haven’t spoken with anyone on the collegiate level who is seeking or requiring students to have tackled such in order to be competitive. Yes I want gifted and advanced students to be challenged, but that doesn’t mean that every option is going to be available at the HS level.

Agreed. No one needs to take MV Calc in high school.

And, yes, both my kids took BC Calc in 11th. One had access to MV in 12th and one didn’t. It’s fine.

So, by your logic no one should get advanced classes or Mv. No, it should be offered at all schools. Mcps has an obligation to provide four years of math as a graduation requirement.

And, yes, it’s needed for the better stem colleges.

That class will be empty at almost all of the schools. I don't think you understand MCPS HS at all. I suspect you have younger kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:make sure you're looking at the most recent region groupings. The link on the MCPS message to region maps was an old version. Not all regions are east-to-west anymore.

Do you have a link to the new maps?

Starting on slide 23: https://go.boarddocs.com/mabe/mcpsmd/Board.nsf/files/DJVQ4P6782A9/$file/Sec%20Prog%20Analysis%20Boundary%20Studies%20Engaga%20Plan%20Update%20250724%20PPT.pdf

So, they are going with option #5? - pg 26.

DP. Yes. I think these boundaries balance higher and lower SES, and harmony of communities as much as possible. You cannot ignore harmony. I know a student from a very different community who was bussed into a program due to its opportunity at the insistence of their parent. That student was miserable and was elated at switching to a school community they could better resonate with at the first opportunity.

No one wants forced bussing. The best option is to put more money in the schools that don’t have much and make them equal. The disparities are significant. A smart kid at a w school can get all their classes and academics met. A smart kid dcc is forced to another school, Mc or go without. They don’t allow homeschooling or independent study or virtual classes outside Mcps. Or, at least being back virtual so it aligns with MCPS schedules.

The demographics are changing in mcps in the dcc due to crazy housing prices.

Blair is a great program but not for all kids. Not all kids want a magnet and prefer to choose their own classes and those kids should get the same opportunities. One reason why dcc kids try for Blair is the other schools don’t have the academics and they leave which causes the low scores.

I think this is part of what MCPS is trying to figure out, and I credit Taylor with at least tackling it. My understanding is that they are going to make sure every school has a baseline number of advanced classes, and that they are currently auditing what is available where.

But we also need to be realistic and aim for what is possible. I think making sure every HS has AP Calculus BC is sufficient, and then bringing back virtual for MVC for some kids.

What other courses do you think every school should be offering?

MVC

there are not enough students interested in MVC in each HS to offer it. If we had unlimited funding, sure. But, we don't. Plus, good luck finding good teachers to teach mvc at every HS.

I know nothing about MVC so am curious what folks think-- is it better to take MVC virtually from a good teacher (both good at teaching MVC and good at online teaching), or to take it locally with a poor or mediocre teacher?

(I know some individual kids really struggle with virtual learning, but I'm talking about the majority of kids here.)

I'm a university faculty, and I had supervised an undergrad from a mediocre university before through the REU program. He was in English major, but happened to take an astronomy class for fun, and the professor who taught that class found him smart, so recommended to me to do some data analysis work. He started to learn coding all by himself from scratch, and at the end of that summer, he completed his work and we finished a scientific paper together later that year. He applied to a graduate program for astronomy major in a prestigious university, and got an offer. Now he is a PhD candidate there. I once asked him why he chose English as his major. And he told me he had a really bad experience in Calc BC class back in HS, that made him hating math so much, until he took the astronomy class, and finally found his true love and true talent. This is how a good or a bad HS teacher could impact...

Okay, so is that a vote for prioritizing getting good teachers and having them teach virtually if you can't get enough good MVC teachers for all the high schools, over having an in-person MVC teacher at all high schools even if they're a bad teacher?

As a parent, my opinion doesn't matter. Ppl on this board said we should listen to Taylor or Hazel who have education PhDs and hence who should be the experts, neglecting the fact that they didn't know the magnet curriculum, and didn't care how to expand the curriculum nor how to train or find qualified teachers. Nicky Hazel even spelled "cosmology" wrong under the "STEM" example course offering in her slides (she spelled "cosmetology"). So whatever the hell.

I have more faith in the ability of MCPS to teach cosmetology than I do cosmology.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:make sure you're looking at the most recent region groupings. The link on the MCPS message to region maps was an old version. Not all regions are east-to-west anymore.

Do you have a link to the new maps?

Starting on slide 23: https://go.boarddocs.com/mabe/mcpsmd/Board.nsf/files/DJVQ4P6782A9/$file/Sec%20Prog%20Analysis%20Boundary%20Studies%20Engaga%20Plan%20Update%20250724%20PPT.pdf

So, they are going with option #5? - pg 26.

DP. Yes. I think these boundaries balance higher and lower SES, and harmony of communities as much as possible. You cannot ignore harmony. I know a student from a very different community who was bussed into a program due to its opportunity at the insistence of their parent. That student was miserable and was elated at switching to a school community they could better resonate with at the first opportunity.

No one wants forced bussing. The best option is to put more money in the schools that don’t have much and make them equal. The disparities are significant. A smart kid at a w school can get all their classes and academics met. A smart kid dcc is forced to another school, Mc or go without. They don’t allow homeschooling or independent study or virtual classes outside Mcps. Or, at least being back virtual so it aligns with MCPS schedules.

The demographics are changing in mcps in the dcc due to crazy housing prices.

Blair is a great program but not for all kids. Not all kids want a magnet and prefer to choose their own classes and those kids should get the same opportunities. One reason why dcc kids try for Blair is the other schools don’t have the academics and they leave which causes the low scores.

I think this is part of what MCPS is trying to figure out, and I credit Taylor with at least tackling it. My understanding is that they are going to make sure every school has a baseline number of advanced classes, and that they are currently auditing what is available where.

But we also need to be realistic and aim for what is possible. I think making sure every HS has AP Calculus BC is sufficient, and then bringing back virtual for MVC for some kids.

What other courses do you think every school should be offering?

MVC

there are not enough students interested in MVC in each HS to offer it. If we had unlimited funding, sure. But, we don't. Plus, good luck finding good teachers to teach mvc at every HS.

Either fund in-person MVC for all schools or fund it for none besides the STEM magnets. None of this in-person-for-me-but-virtual-or-community-college-for-thee, "community-pull" inequity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:🍿

Yeah, you rolled in with this at the beginning of the thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:make sure you're looking at the most recent region groupings. The link on the MCPS message to region maps was an old version. Not all regions are east-to-west anymore.

Do you have a link to the new maps?

Starting on slide 23: https://go.boarddocs.com/mabe/mcpsmd/Board.nsf/files/DJVQ4P6782A9/$file/Sec%20Prog%20Analysis%20Boundary%20Studies%20Engaga%20Plan%20Update%20250724%20PPT.pdf

So, they are going with option #5? - pg 26.

DP. Yes. I think these boundaries balance higher and lower SES, and harmony of communities as much as possible. You cannot ignore harmony. I know a student from a very different community who was bussed into a program due to its opportunity at the insistence of their parent. That student was miserable and was elated at switching to a school community they could better resonate with at the first opportunity.

No one wants forced bussing. The best option is to put more money in the schools that don’t have much and make them equal. The disparities are significant. A smart kid at a w school can get all their classes and academics met. A smart kid dcc is forced to another school, Mc or go without. They don’t allow homeschooling or independent study or virtual classes outside Mcps. Or, at least being back virtual so it aligns with MCPS schedules.

The demographics are changing in mcps in the dcc due to crazy housing prices.

Blair is a great program but not for all kids. Not all kids want a magnet and prefer to choose their own classes and those kids should get the same opportunities. One reason why dcc kids try for Blair is the other schools don’t have the academics and they leave which causes the low scores.

I think this is part of what MCPS is trying to figure out, and I credit Taylor with at least tackling it. My understanding is that they are going to make sure every school has a baseline number of advanced classes, and that they are currently auditing what is available where.

But we also need to be realistic and aim for what is possible. I think making sure every HS has AP Calculus BC is sufficient, and then bringing back virtual for MVC for some kids.

What other courses do you think every school should be offering?

MVC

there are not enough students interested in MVC in each HS to offer it. If we had unlimited funding, sure. But, we don't. Plus, good luck finding good teachers to teach mvc at every HS.

Either fund in-person MVC for all schools or fund it for none besides the STEM magnets. None of this in-person-for-me-but-virtual-or-community-college-for-thee, "community-pull" inequity.

+1

[Anonymous]

Is MVC the kind of class that really can't be taught well virtually? What parts of the class really need to happen physically?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:make sure you're looking at the most recent region groupings. The link on the MCPS message to region maps was an old version. Not all regions are east-to-west anymore.

Do you have a link to the new maps?

Starting on slide 23: https://go.boarddocs.com/mabe/mcpsmd/Board.nsf/files/DJVQ4P6782A9/$file/Sec%20Prog%20Analysis%20Boundary%20Studies%20Engaga%20Plan%20Update%20250724%20PPT.pdf

So, they are going with option #5? - pg 26.

DP. Yes. I think these boundaries balance higher and lower SES, and harmony of communities as much as possible. You cannot ignore harmony. I know a student from a very different community who was bussed into a program due to its opportunity at the insistence of their parent. That student was miserable and was elated at switching to a school community they could better resonate with at the first opportunity.

No one wants forced bussing. The best option is to put more money in the schools that don’t have much and make them equal. The disparities are significant. A smart kid at a w school can get all their classes and academics met. A smart kid dcc is forced to another school, Mc or go without. They don’t allow homeschooling or independent study or virtual classes outside Mcps. Or, at least being back virtual so it aligns with MCPS schedules.

The demographics are changing in mcps in the dcc due to crazy housing prices.

Blair is a great program but not for all kids. Not all kids want a magnet and prefer to choose their own classes and those kids should get the same opportunities. One reason why dcc kids try for Blair is the other schools don’t have the academics and they leave which causes the low scores.

I think this is part of what MCPS is trying to figure out, and I credit Taylor with at least tackling it. My understanding is that they are going to make sure every school has a baseline number of advanced classes, and that they are currently auditing what is available where.

But we also need to be realistic and aim for what is possible. I think making sure every HS has AP Calculus BC is sufficient, and then bringing back virtual for MVC for some kids.

What other courses do you think every school should be offering?

Does MCPS have enough good math teachers to teach AP BC calc in every HS? There's a shortage of STEM teachers. I don't think MCPS can find enough good teachers for math.

My kid wanted to take AB Calc but the teacher was so bad that they downgraded to Applied Calc. A bad math teacher can make the class awful, and the kid to hate math.

Then fix that part. But saying that there shouldn't be an advanced math class in every HS is terrible. And yes some schools may only offer one AP calc class and have 10 kids. That's ok. But someone will complain that too many resources are used on the 10 kids in that school while a W school has to have 3 sections of 30 kids in calculus and won't get funding for a 4th.

40 kids to a class is normal. Be thankful your school has it. It’s not ok if they aren’t offering Mv and beyond while your school has multiple advanced classes. Why should my tax dollars fund your kids advance classes when my kids don’t get them?

Because your kid isn't smart enough to pass MV. Now, I said it!

dp

Except my kid is and already did bc.

So nobody should get it if your kid cannot? Is that really where we are at?

No, we are at all kids should have access to the same classes. So mine should get the same as yours. It’s unfair to kids who take bc sophomore year that they don’t have enough math classes to graduate.

DP. Agree with the sentiment, there. A note, however:

The kids taking AP Calc BC in junior year and likely to pursue STEM in college also need MVC. It's the next in the progression, and it negatively impacts their learning to have a gap if shunted off to AP Stats when MVC is not provided.

AP Stats is good to have, and much more important for those not likely to be pursuing a STEM major.

DiffEq can be approached in college with a gap, if needed. That is far less consequential than having a gap before MVC.

Those having chosen to go beyond the standard acceleration offered at MCPS and taking BC in sophomore year can progress to MVC as a junior and then take Stats as a senior to fill the state requirement if not in a STEM magnet offering more.

The minimum set of college-level courses needed across all schools, presuming MCPS is not guaranteeing anyone on their standard advanced math track in ES/MS gets to go to that magnet, is AP Calc AB, AP Calc BC (with allowance for taking that directly, as it covers the AB material), MVC and AP Stats. That's likely to be more the case near the time the regional magnets come into play, with the state math curriculum change. MCPS hasn't wrapped its head around this, though.

A junior in bc can take stats but what about the sophomores. A few of the middle schools offer algebra in 6th and accelerate the kids so they are done with bc in Sophomore year.

No. You miss the point. Just because Stats is available doesn't mean it is adequate. MVC really should be taken immediately after BC, so it needs to be there not just for the BC-taking sophomores, of whom there are relatively few across the system, but also for the BC-taking juniors, of whom there are relatively many.

Those taking Algebra 1 before 7th (and then hitting BC before junior year) are doing it either as a one-off test-in advancement or due to concerted community push to school administration, resulting in the principal going outside of the MCPS-designed/approved curricular pathways.

Both my kids took it in 6th and bc as sophomores so yes, Mv needs to be offered for these kids. There was no community support or testing. It went by map score and teacher recommendation. It’s MCPS approved. It was done at two different middle schools.

Sigh. MAP is a test. There's your testing.

Being allowed by MCPS and being part of the MCPS-designed curricular pathways are two different things.

Its being allowed by administrations at two schools (what was it, Frost & Loiederman?) at the historic behest of families and continuing as something of a holdover from that does not make it without community support.

MVC does need to be offered to juniors having taken BC as sophomores. It also needs to be offered to seniors having taken BC in their junior year.