Boys shamed for not harassing girls

[Anonymous]

There was a Twitter thread <https://twitter.com/saladinahmed/status/931206629995008002> where the original poster said "male culture tries to make boys/men feel f*cked up for NOT being harassers." I was a little surprised at the number of people, mostly women, who were unaware of this and/or couldn't think of how this tends to play out.

The example that comes to mind for me was a time in 8th or 9th grade when my friends called me a pussy for being too afraid to snap girls' bras. Besides that there was the general pervasiveness of being called a loser if you weren't getting girls' phone numbers, hooking up with them, having sex with them, etc.

Curious if other guys experienced this when they were growing up and whether women were aware that guys suffered a loss of social status if they weren't sexually aggressive toward women.

[Anonymous]

Yes, definitely. By the standards of my adolescence (1990s), I was widely presumed to be gay, or just odd and overly timid, in general.

As bad as that was, those traits probably saved me from the Inquisition that is taking place today. I would never have anticipated that the goal posts would have shifted so dramatically in just 20 years. It's hard to appreciate how cultural mores can subtly shift what seems like right and wrong until you have lived long enough to experience it, personally.

[Anonymous]

11/16/2017 12:29 here again. I think it's fair to point out that it wasn't just boys. Girls were just as vigilant at enforcing the gender roles of the time. The difference between what life was actually like in the 1990s and what are understood to be accepted truths today is unnerving. I find it a little scary when I read a column that was written recently by someone who is probably in the early-to-mid 20s, vilifying middle-aged people who things that they said or did decades ago.

Obviously, serious, sexual assault allegations don't deserve a "statute of limitations," but sometimes I feel that some of the more minor, incidental, skeletons being dragged out were probably best left in the closet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, definitely. By the standards of my adolescence (1990s), I was widely presumed to be gay, or just odd and overly timid, in general.

As bad as that was, those traits probably saved me from the Inquisition that is taking place today. I would never have anticipated that the goal posts would have shifted so dramatically in just 20 years. It's hard to appreciate how cultural mores can subtly shift what seems like right and wrong until you have lived long enough to experience it, personally.

Really? The "Inquisition?"

Hyperbolic much? Are you actively misogynistic or are you just clumsy with vocabulary?

[Anonymous]

In my school (mid-80s), the bra-snappers seemed fairly popular with the ladies. I never knew what to make of that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There was a Twitter thread <https://twitter.com/saladinahmed/status/931206629995008002> where the original poster said "male culture tries to make boys/men feel f*cked up for NOT being harassers." I was a little surprised at the number of people, mostly women, who were unaware of this and/or couldn't think of how this tends to play out.

The example that comes to mind for me was a time in 8th or 9th grade when my friends called me a pussy for being too afraid to snap girls' bras. Besides that there was the general pervasiveness of being called a loser if you weren't getting girls' phone numbers, hooking up with them, having sex with them, etc.

Curious if other guys experienced this when they were growing up and whether women were aware that guys suffered a loss of social status if they weren't sexually aggressive toward women.

I never felt that way. I played sports and was focused on that. Didnt get laid until college a d was never called a loser. Im 32.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There was a Twitter thread <https://twitter.com/saladinahmed/status/931206629995008002> where the original poster said "male culture tries to make boys/men feel f*cked up for NOT being harassers." I was a little surprised at the number of people, mostly women, who were unaware of this and/or couldn't think of how this tends to play out.

The example that comes to mind for me was a time in 8th or 9th grade when my friends called me a pussy for being too afraid to snap girls' bras. Besides that there was the general pervasiveness of being called a loser if you weren't getting girls' phone numbers, hooking up with them, having sex with them, etc.

Curious if other guys experienced this when they were growing up and whether women were aware that guys suffered a loss of social status if they weren't sexually aggressive toward women.

I never felt that way. I played sports and was focused on that. Didnt get laid until college a d was never called a loser. Im 32.

So 8th/9th grade would have been in roughly 1999? Hopefully that toxic masculinity faded somewhat through the 80s and 90s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There was a Twitter thread <https://twitter.com/saladinahmed/status/931206629995008002> where the original poster said "male culture tries to make boys/men feel f*cked up for NOT being harassers." I was a little surprised at the number of people, mostly women, who were unaware of this and/or couldn't think of how this tends to play out.

The example that comes to mind for me was a time in 8th or 9th grade when my friends called me a pussy for being too afraid to snap girls' bras. Besides that there was the general pervasiveness of being called a loser if you weren't getting girls' phone numbers, hooking up with them, having sex with them, etc.

Curious if other guys experienced this when they were growing up and whether women were aware that guys suffered a loss of social status if they weren't sexually aggressive toward women.

I never felt that way. I played sports and was focused on that. Didnt get laid until college a d was never called a loser. Im 32.

So 8th/9th grade would have been in roughly 1999? Hopefully that toxic masculinity faded somewhat through the 80s and 90s.

Being good at some kind of athletics gives a young man plausible deniability.

I wonder if Tim Tebow would be able have been able to be a respectable 30 year old virgin if he wasn't a superstar QB (in college, anyway).

[Anonymous]

This has been discussed here before. I feel compassion for boys/men who feel pressured to act in inappropriate ways to avoid social consequences, and especially for those who resist that pressure and accept the consequences of it. None of this even remotely excuses boys/men mistreating girls/women just so that they're not mistreated themselves, though. You're still fully culpable for that.

[Anonymous]

Sorry, I must have lived in a bubble, but the boys in my private high school were not like this at all. They were all friendly and nice, and some of them clearly were pursuing some of us girls, but never in an annoying way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This has been discussed here before. I feel compassion for boys/men who feel pressured to act in inappropriate ways to avoid social consequences, and especially for those who resist that pressure and accept the consequences of it. None of this even remotely excuses boys/men mistreating girls/women just so that they're not mistreated themselves, though. You're still fully culpable for that.

Well sure. If you're starving, you still go to jail for stealing bread.

[Anonymous]

I'm not sure why we are pretending that a huge percentage of males and females enjoy or play along with this dynamic. It's fairly common knowledge that the more aggressive you are the more girls you get if that is important to you. Even more so if you are not physically attractive. I never understood it or participated myself but then they always s called me a square.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not sure why we are pretending that a huge percentage of males and females enjoy or play along with this dynamic. It's fairly common knowledge that the more aggressive you are the more girls you get if that is important to you. Even more so if you are not physically attractive. I never understood it or participated myself but then they always s called me a square.

Right. Boys are shamed for not harassing girls.

[Anonymous]

I graduated HS in 1994 and must also have grown up in a bubble. I first had sex summer after my senior year and was never shamed for it, nor did i feel pressure to harrass girls at school. I had (and still have) a group of great friends that stretch back to middle school. No idea what you all are talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, definitely. By the standards of my adolescence (1990s), I was widely presumed to be gay, or just odd and overly timid, in general.

As bad as that was, those traits probably saved me from the Inquisition that is taking place today. I would never have anticipated that the goal posts would have shifted so dramatically in just 20 years. It's hard to appreciate how cultural mores can subtly shift what seems like right and wrong until you have lived long enough to experience it, personally.

Really? The "Inquisition?"

Hyperbolic much? Are you actively misogynistic or are you just clumsy with vocabulary?

Manquisition?

Bro-pocalypse?

I'll see myself out.