Potential Addition of Advanced Academic Program (AAP Center) in the Edison Pyramid

[Anonymous]

Springfield Estates is now a Title 1 school. There are plus and minus to adding another AAP center. Perhaps Level IV service at local school may be better. Thoughts?


From Tamara Derenak Kaufax newsletter:
Potential Addition of Advanced Academic Program (AAP Center) in the Edison Pyramid!
I would like to invite you to attend one of two community meetings we will be holding to discuss a proposal to open an AAP center at Bush Hill Elementary School beginning in the 2018-19 school year.
 
Fairfax County Public Schools (FCPS) provides a wide variety of programming in its schools.  We are fortunate to have robust Advanced Academic Programs (AAP) in the Edison and Lee and Hayfield pyramids and have experienced enrollment growth at the Springfield Estates Elementary Center over the past several years.

In an effort to provide a closer option for the level IV AAP center experience within the Edison pyramid, as well as to relieve overcrowding at the Springfield Estates level IV center, FCPS has been exploring the possibility of opening a new AAP Center at Bush Hill Elementary that would serve eligible students in the Edison pyramid.

Any plan for opening a new center requires numerous steps including information sharing, gathering input from the community, and Fairfax County School Board approval. With careful consideration of all collected viewpoints and data, FCPS leadership, Facilities and Planning, Office of Communication and Community Relations, and Instructional Services work collaboratively to provide recommended options for the School Board to consider before moving forward.

Elementary parents in the Edison pyramid or who attend Springfield Estates are invited to attend one of two opportunities to learn more about options for opening an AAP center at Bush Hill Elementary:

Bush Hill Elementary School Community Meeting
Wednesday, October 25
7-8:30 p.m.
Bush Hill ES

Springfield Estates Elementary School Community Meeting
Wednesday, November 1
7-8:30 p.m.
 
Information about AAP and what is required for a school to operate as an AAP Center will be shared at the meeting.  We will also seek your feedback on potential options.
All presentation information and transcribed feedback will be posted to the FCPS website.  A survey will be sent out after the meetings to allow families that were not able to attend to share their feedback as well.

[Anonymous]

They don't have any elementary AAP centers in the Edison pyramid??

If that is the case then adding a center would be a step in the right direction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They don't have any elementary AAP centers in the Edison pyramid??

If that is the case then adding a center would be a step in the right direction.

Not necessarily.

SEES is an outstanding center. And there may be valid reasons to open another. However, just having a center in a particular pyramid is not a good reason to open a center. There are also indirect consequences of taking ALL the Edison kids out of SEES and putting an actual center at Bush Hill. But, first, it would be helpful for people who are voicing their opinions on this to understand the strength of the program at Springfield Estates; to understand how many kids would be involved in a Bush Hill (Edison) center; and lastly, how this would affect the current program at Springfield Estates.

If the numbers are sufficient, or better yet ... dictate... that another center is needed in this area... then by all means, one should be set up. In the past, the numbers have not necessitated a separate center. Note that Springfield Estates is in Lee pyramid, but the vast majority of students at the center come from Hayfield and Edison. Technically, Hayfield pyramid has a center (Lorton Station), but only about a third of the AAP kids at Lorton Station (which is in Hayfield Pyramid) come from Hayfield Pyramid. The majority of the AAP kids are from South County and a tiny bit from Lee. (This begs the question why Lorton Station is even in Hayfield pyramid -- since it is very close geographically to South County HS -- but the answer has to do with the poor kids (and by that I mean public housing/apartment/really poor) that were not wanted in South County HS when it was built. If you look at the Hayfield and South County boundaries, it makes no sense for Lorton Station to be at Hayfield. But the richer parents who got South County didn't want those kids in their HS. Hayfield should be taking some of the pressure off of West Potomac and Lorton Station should be zoned to South County.)

Anyway -- the point is that for most purposes, the vast majority of AAP students in Hayfield pyramid to to Lee pyramid (i.e. Springfield Estates for AAP elem. school and then over to Twain MS in Edison's zone for MS.) Practically speaking, Hayfield doesn't have a true feeder AAP elementary school. Edison has at least one level 4 elem school + the AAP middle school center. Hayfield has no local level 4 elem. schools and no AAP middle school option (within pyramid). That said, the Hayfield schools that feed into Springfield Estates (Hayfield Elem., Island Creek, and Lane) have generally been very happy with the quality of the program and have not wanted to switch to Lorton Station b/c it is far away from the others, over-crowded, and do not have test scores that you would expect to see given that it is a center.

All of this is background information on what the current status of Springfield Estates is to the community. I think word has started to get out that SEES is a great education and more people have been sending their kids in the past couple of years. (There was also a renovation going on several years ago, and that was also discouraging as the facility was really BAD during the renovation, but now it is very nice.) As people have heard more about SEES, it has gotten bigger. That is a plus in some ways and a minus in others. It's a plus that there are multiple classrooms of AAP kids so the teachers can collaborate and split the planning. It's a plus that there is a very strong PTA with lots of activities and it is primarily run by the AAP parents. It can be a negative that the AAP part of the school is so much bigger than the non-AAP part. If the AAP center wasn't there, that school zone would need to be re-zoned b/c there are only 35-58 kids in each non-AAP grade level. Many of the elem. schools in the Edison pyramid are small schools by any measure. Bush Hill has 460, Clermont has 612 (with 52 at level 4 -- how does that work with 4 grades and only 52 AAP identified kids? not sure), Franconia has 541, Mount Eagle has 414, Rose Hill has 692 (with an immersion program), Cameron has 519 with a level 4 program. Contrast that with other schools in the area: Lorton Station has 10, Island Creek has 748, Lane has 789, Hayfield ES has 752. (Lane, Hayfield, and Island Creek do not have local level 4). The non-AAP part of Springfield Estates is less than 400 kids (that includes the entire school -- from preK-6th non-AAP).

I'm not sure how many kids are attending SEES from Edison pyramid this year. Or how many were identified as AAP but did not attend. Some from Rose Hill choose to do immersion rather than AAP. Some from Clermont and Cameron choose the local level 4 program. Last year, there were 200/441 AAP kids at SEES that came from Edison. This year there are 520 AAP kids at SEES ... but I don't know which pyramids they are coming from.

If 200 kids are no longer part of SEES, but part of Bush Hill's proposed center, that will certainly have an effect on the program and the dynamics at SEES. The numbers may be sufficient to require it. The idea, however, needs to be considered in context with how it will affect the AAP students from Hayfield pyramid, Lee pyramid, as well as the AAP students from Edison pyramid. Those who support creating a new center, should consider not only the benefits of gaining their own facility in Edison, but also the costs of no longer being part of an established and very successful program (the teachers' knowledge and experience, the school community/history and activities, the efficiencies that come from being part of a larger group).

I do not have a conclusion on whether a new center at Bush Hill would be appropriate or desirable. I only ask that people consider the full spectrum of effects (not just the up side) as they participate in this conversation.

[Anonymous]

Typo -- Lorton Station has 914 students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They don't have any elementary AAP centers in the Edison pyramid??

If that is the case then adding a center would be a step in the right direction.

Not necessarily.

SEES is an outstanding center. And there may be valid reasons to open another. However, just having a center in a particular pyramid is not a good reason to open a center. There are also indirect consequences of taking ALL the Edison kids out of SEES and putting an actual center at Bush Hill. But, first, it would be helpful for people who are voicing their opinions on this to understand the strength of the program at Springfield Estates; to understand how many kids would be involved in a Bush Hill (Edison) center; and lastly, how this would affect the current program at Springfield Estates.

If the numbers are sufficient, or better yet ... dictate... that another center is needed in this area... then by all means, one should be set up. In the past, the numbers have not necessitated a separate center. Note that Springfield Estates is in Lee pyramid, but the vast majority of students at the center come from Hayfield and Edison. Technically, Hayfield pyramid has a center (Lorton Station), but only about a third of the AAP kids at Lorton Station (which is in Hayfield Pyramid) come from Hayfield Pyramid. The majority of the AAP kids are from South County and a tiny bit from Lee. (This begs the question why Lorton Station is even in Hayfield pyramid -- since it is very close geographically to South County HS -- but the answer has to do with the poor kids (and by that I mean public housing/apartment/really poor) that were not wanted in South County HS when it was built. If you look at the Hayfield and South County boundaries, it makes no sense for Lorton Station to be at Hayfield. But the richer parents who got South County didn't want those kids in their HS. Hayfield should be taking some of the pressure off of West Potomac and Lorton Station should be zoned to South County.)

Anyway -- the point is that for most purposes, the vast majority of AAP students in Hayfield pyramid to to Lee pyramid (i.e. Springfield Estates for AAP elem. school and then over to Twain MS in Edison's zone for MS.) Practically speaking, Hayfield doesn't have a true feeder AAP elementary school. Edison has at least one level 4 elem school + the AAP middle school center. Hayfield has no local level 4 elem. schools and no AAP middle school option (within pyramid). That said, the Hayfield schools that feed into Springfield Estates (Hayfield Elem., Island Creek, and Lane) have generally been very happy with the quality of the program and have not wanted to switch to Lorton Station b/c it is far away from the others, over-crowded, and do not have test scores that you would expect to see given that it is a center.

All of this is background information on what the current status of Springfield Estates is to the community. I think word has started to get out that SEES is a great education and more people have been sending their kids in the past couple of years. (There was also a renovation going on several years ago, and that was also discouraging as the facility was really BAD during the renovation, but now it is very nice.) As people have heard more about SEES, it has gotten bigger. That is a plus in some ways and a minus in others. It's a plus that there are multiple classrooms of AAP kids so the teachers can collaborate and split the planning. It's a plus that there is a very strong PTA with lots of activities and it is primarily run by the AAP parents. It can be a negative that the AAP part of the school is so much bigger than the non-AAP part. If the AAP center wasn't there, that school zone would need to be re-zoned b/c there are only 35-58 kids in each non-AAP grade level. Many of the elem. schools in the Edison pyramid are small schools by any measure. Bush Hill has 460, Clermont has 612 (with 52 at level 4 -- how does that work with 4 grades and only 52 AAP identified kids? not sure), Franconia has 541, Mount Eagle has 414, Rose Hill has 692 (with an immersion program), Cameron has 519 with a level 4 program. Contrast that with other schools in the area: Lorton Station has 10, Island Creek has 748, Lane has 789, Hayfield ES has 752. (Lane, Hayfield, and Island Creek do not have local level 4). The non-AAP part of Springfield Estates is less than 400 kids (that includes the entire school -- from preK-6th non-AAP).

I'm not sure how many kids are attending SEES from Edison pyramid this year. Or how many were identified as AAP but did not attend. Some from Rose Hill choose to do immersion rather than AAP. Some from Clermont and Cameron choose the local level 4 program. Last year, there were 200/441 AAP kids at SEES that came from Edison. This year there are 520 AAP kids at SEES ... but I don't know which pyramids they are coming from.

If 200 kids are no longer part of SEES, but part of Bush Hill's proposed center, that will certainly have an effect on the program and the dynamics at SEES. The numbers may be sufficient to require it. The idea, however, needs to be considered in context with how it will affect the AAP students from Hayfield pyramid, Lee pyramid, as well as the AAP students from Edison pyramid. Those who support creating a new center, should consider not only the benefits of gaining their own facility in Edison, but also the costs of no longer being part of an established and very successful program (the teachers' knowledge and experience, the school community/history and activities, the efficiencies that come from being part of a larger group).

I do not have a conclusion on whether a new center at Bush Hill would be appropriate or desirable. I only ask that people consider the full spectrum of effects (not just the up side) as they participate in this conversation.

No center school needs more than 300 AAP students. Beyond that and it should just be an AAP center magnet and cease to be a combined AAP center and regular neighborhood school.

[Anonymous]

There is a real problem in many ways if a whole pyramid can not support at the elementary level.

[Anonymous]

The non-AAP part of Springfield Estates is less than 400 kids (that includes the entire school -- from preK-6th non-AAP).

I'm not sure how many kids are attending SEES from Edison pyramid this year. Or how many were identified as AAP but did not attend. Some from Rose Hill choose to do immersion rather than AAP. Some from Clermont and Cameron choose the local level 4 program. Last year, there were 200/441 AAP kids at SEES that came from Edison. This year there are 520 AAP kids at SEES ... but I don't know which pyramids they are coming from.

If 200 kids are no longer part of SEES, but part of Bush Hill's proposed center, that will certainly have an effect on the program and the dynamics at SEES. The numbers may be sufficient to require it. The idea, however, needs to be considered in context with how it will affect the AAP students from Hayfield pyramid, Lee pyramid, as well as the AAP students from Edison pyramid. Those who support creating a new center, should consider not only the benefits of gaining their own facility in Edison, but also the costs of no longer being part of an established and very successful program (the teachers' knowledge and experience, the school community/history and activities, the efficiencies that come from being part of a larger group).

While 15:53 has some valid information to consider on boundaries, the part above is where it goes off the rails. The school board should not consider keeping kids at SEES just because it's a good center. If SEES has less than 400 non AAP center children, that tells you that the center portion should be even less than that number which likely will be around 300 students maximum so that the neighborhood kids don't feel outnumbered and it remains in part a neighborhood school. All of the other AAP centers are mostly between 100-360 students with an average in the 200's. SEES is too large at over 500 students.

[Anonymous]

Making SEES a magnet AAP center for the area would be nice.... but the kids zoned for SEES as their neighborhood school probably wouldn't like being moved out. Garfield and Forestdale would have some room. But that's not a realistic option.

Edison pyramid may not have its own elementary school center, but it has two local level 4 programs plus an immersion option AND it holds the middle school AAP center. Some are making this into a "victim" scenario "why are we being overlooked?" Edison pyramid isn't being overlooked.

If anyone is being overlooked, it might be the Hayfield pyramid elementary students. only about 45 kids in the entire Hayfield pyramid have access to any level of AAP services (elementary or middle school level) within their own pyramid. There are no local level 4 schools in Hayfield's zone. There is no AAP center/middle school in Hayfield's zone. If divving things out by pyramid is the standard by which we are measuring, then Hayfield kids are getting the short end of the stick more than Edison kids.

But, I don't think this should be about measuring resources within pyramids alone. Look at the whole program. Look at ALL the kids involved and affected. Make decisions that help the most kids across the most pyramids with the LEAST detriment to kids across all pyramids as well.

Maybe if there was at least one local level 4 in the Hayfield zone, fewer would go to Springfield Estates (in Lee pyramid) and that would alleviate the enrollment somewhat at SEES for any of the kids who want the full center experience (whether they be from Edison pyramid or Hayfield or Lee pyramids). Maybe the schools that send the most kids to SEES (i.e. Franconia or any other) should get local level 4.

There are options that might be more equitable than having two local level 4s programs, a center AND an immersion program in Edison's pyramid.... while Lee has one center, at least one or two local level 4s; and Hayfield has a center that is primarily used by kids from another pyramid (South County), no local level 4s and no immersion.

[Anonymous]

In response to 15:53, we rented for a time in the SEES area but our neighbors were not favorable toward the school. With 30-60 kids per grade, I can see one reason why.

Just because Fairfax recently spent a lot of money on the renovation doesn't mean they need to keep the school at max capacity. They need to focus on the school, not the center.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The non-AAP part of Springfield Estates is less than 400 kids (that includes the entire school -- from preK-6th non-AAP).

I'm not sure how many kids are attending SEES from Edison pyramid this year. Or how many were identified as AAP but did not attend. Some from Rose Hill choose to do immersion rather than AAP. Some from Clermont and Cameron choose the local level 4 program. Last year, there were 200/441 AAP kids at SEES that came from Edison. This year there are 520 AAP kids at SEES ... but I don't know which pyramids they are coming from.

If 200 kids are no longer part of SEES, but part of Bush Hill's proposed center, that will certainly have an effect on the program and the dynamics at SEES. The numbers may be sufficient to require it. The idea, however, needs to be considered in context with how it will affect the AAP students from Hayfield pyramid, Lee pyramid, as well as the AAP students from Edison pyramid. Those who support creating a new center, should consider not only the benefits of gaining their own facility in Edison, but also the costs of no longer being part of an established and very successful program (the teachers' knowledge and experience, the school community/history and activities, the efficiencies that come from being part of a larger group).

While 15:53 has some valid information to consider on boundaries, the part above is where it goes off the rails. The school board should not consider keeping kids at SEES just because it's a good center. If SEES has less than 400 non AAP center children, that tells you that the center portion should be even less than that number which likely will be around 300 students maximum so that the neighborhood kids don't feel outnumbered and it remains in part a neighborhood school. All of the other AAP centers are mostly between 100-360 students with an average in the 200's. SEES is too large at over 500 students.

In the past, it was always about 50/50. It has really grown in the last year. The local students as far as I know are not complaining. They have extra small classes, extra resources by being Title 1 eligible now, and they get the benefits of having a really active community with all the activities that come with AAP centers. There is also a cultural difference in that many of the base school parents are ESOL and/or FARMS. They are not really contemplating how the AAP process works or why their kids aren't in it. Based on test scores and experience, both ends of the community seem to be getting what they need. There isn't any hostility (as you might see in other schools where the demographics are more homogeneous, but people have resentments about one group getting more attention).

[Anonymous]

I don't think you can ask non-AAP parents to put up with overcrowding just so the AAP parents feel confident there's a "critical mass" at their AAP center. If something's got to give, it ought to be the latter. You can add kids to the AAP program but you have to pull kids out of the overcrowded school to relieve congestion.

[Anonymous]

Last year it had 808 students and a design capacity of 904.

This year it has 902 students. There must have been a big bump in the kids who were approved for AAP services. One year could be a blip. It happens with AAP cohorts. Some years are bigger than others. No one knows yet whether this is a trend or a one-time thing.

The base kids aren't the ones who are sent to the trailers.

[Anonymous]

The local parents of in-zone students aren't the ones agitating for a center in Edison Zone. There is a person in Edison's zone who is demanding that Edison have a center. Not sure why she is so adamant. I don't think she has had any kids at SEES; and she hasn't been clear about whether she wants a center or another local level 4. She is quite adamant about tearing SEES down in the process.

[Anonymous]

I think it's a great idea to have a center at Bush Hill. What's the harm?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The local parents of in-zone students aren't the ones agitating for a center in Edison Zone. There is a person in Edison's zone who is demanding that Edison have a center. Not sure why she is so adamant. I don't think she has had any kids at SEES; and she hasn't been clear about whether she wants a center or another local level 4. She is quite adamant about tearing SEES down in the process.

Tearing SEES down in the process? A bit dramatic. Sounds like SEES would still have over 250 AAP students which is well over the average size of an AAP center.