New Additions to Leagues Check Up (ECNL & GA)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a huge delta between the top 3-5 GA clubs in the mid Atlantic and the bottom 7-9. Like two different leagues. So while ECNL > GA generally, the top of GA is equally if not more competitive than ECNL.

That’s fair. I think my main concern, pre ECNL parent, is that there is a lot less parity in GA so the lower half of games are much less competitive. That said, a lot of your season becomes playing non-competitive games. That feels like that would hold back growth and development. While yes, ECNL has bottom half teams, there is a lot more parity and thus, each game is still more competitive and thus, you are developing more.

Yes. PP here and I agree with you. But that could be only 1-2 years away from changing if/as MLS pulls clubs away from ECNL and thus GA gets a windfall. Not saying it will happen, but just that it could because there is nothing inherently superior about ECNL over GA. There are a TON of terrible ECNL clubs out there. Only the top 100 or so are competitive. That number for GA is presently about 60.

just taking a look at the top 25 on the soccer app rankings of how many GA teams were ranked in the top 25? I listed the number of ga teams in each age group for the top 25 below. the remainder are ECNL. facts matter

U19 - 6
U17 - 4
U16 - 3
U15 - 6
U14 - 0
U13 - 3

The issue with using the Soccer Rankings app as some definitive way to determine the ECNL vs GA league strength argument is that the methodology isn’t league-neutral. The rankings are heavily driven by strength of schedule algorithms and opponent weighting. 

When ECNL teams play other highly ranked ECNL teams, those wins and losses recycle value back into the ECNL ecosystem. Meanwhile, GA teams often don’t get the same weighting because the algorithm already assumes ECNL competition is stronger based on historical interconnected results. That creates a feedback loop.

So when someone says “only X GA teams are in the Top 25,” they’re ignoring how the rankings are built in the first place. It’s not an equal playing field mathematically.

The app itself even emphasizes opponent quality, strength of schedule, and predictive algorithms as core components of rankings. 

That means:
- An ECNL win over another ECNL team is inherently valued higher.
- GA teams have fewer opportunities to gain algorithmic momentum.

So yes, facts matter. But methodology matters too. If the weighting system favors ECNL match networks, then using those rankings alone as proof of league superiority is incomplete analysis.

Need more chances for leagues to compete against each other. ECNL shelters rankings by having a few extra showcases to make extra money vs giving ECNL teams opportunity to play other leagues...WAGs...Jeff Cup..etc...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a huge delta between the top 3-5 GA clubs in the mid Atlantic and the bottom 7-9. Like two different leagues. So while ECNL > GA generally, the top of GA is equally if not more competitive than ECNL.

That’s fair. I think my main concern, pre ECNL parent, is that there is a lot less parity in GA so the lower half of games are much less competitive. That said, a lot of your season becomes playing non-competitive games. That feels like that would hold back growth and development. While yes, ECNL has bottom half teams, there is a lot more parity and thus, each game is still more competitive and thus, you are developing more.

Yes. PP here and I agree with you. But that could be only 1-2 years away from changing if/as MLS pulls clubs away from ECNL and thus GA gets a windfall. Not saying it will happen, but just that it could because there is nothing inherently superior about ECNL over GA. There are a TON of terrible ECNL clubs out there. Only the top 100 or so are competitive. That number for GA is presently about 60.

just taking a look at the top 25 on the soccer app rankings of how many GA teams were ranked in the top 25? I listed the number of ga teams in each age group for the top 25 below. the remainder are ECNL. facts matter

U19 - 6
U17 - 4
U16 - 3
U15 - 6
U14 - 0
U13 - 3

The issue with using the Soccer Rankings app as some definitive way to determine the ECNL vs GA league strength argument is that the methodology isn’t league-neutral. The rankings are heavily driven by strength of schedule algorithms and opponent weighting. 

When ECNL teams play other highly ranked ECNL teams, those wins and losses recycle value back into the ECNL ecosystem. Meanwhile, GA teams often don’t get the same weighting because the algorithm already assumes ECNL competition is stronger based on historical interconnected results. That creates a feedback loop.

So when someone says “only X GA teams are in the Top 25,” they’re ignoring how the rankings are built in the first place. It’s not an equal playing field mathematically.

The app itself even emphasizes opponent quality, strength of schedule, and predictive algorithms as core components of rankings. 

That means:
- An ECNL win over another ECNL team is inherently valued higher.
- GA teams have fewer opportunities to gain algorithmic momentum.

So yes, facts matter. But methodology matters too. If the weighting system favors ECNL match networks, then using those rankings alone as proof of league superiority is incomplete analysis.

Proud ECNL hat here (of course I'm joking, but kid is at a top 25 ECNL team currently), and this is very accurate.

[Anonymous]

I can even provide a follow up example. A team that barely finished above 500 in league play is still "top 25" as well because all their games were close. The app gives so much weight to strength of schedule that actually winning games isn't that important. I can see how this could be accurate in some cases, but SOS is doing a lot of heavy lifting. The team in question is most definitely not top 25 material.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a huge delta between the top 3-5 GA clubs in the mid Atlantic and the bottom 7-9. Like two different leagues. So while ECNL > GA generally, the top of GA is equally if not more competitive than ECNL.

That’s fair. I think my main concern, pre ECNL parent, is that there is a lot less parity in GA so the lower half of games are much less competitive. That said, a lot of your season becomes playing non-competitive games. That feels like that would hold back growth and development. While yes, ECNL has bottom half teams, there is a lot more parity and thus, each game is still more competitive and thus, you are developing more.

Yes. PP here and I agree with you. But that could be only 1-2 years away from changing if/as MLS pulls clubs away from ECNL and thus GA gets a windfall. Not saying it will happen, but just that it could because there is nothing inherently superior about ECNL over GA. There are a TON of terrible ECNL clubs out there. Only the top 100 or so are competitive. That number for GA is presently about 60.

just taking a look at the top 25 on the soccer app rankings of how many GA teams were ranked in the top 25? I listed the number of ga teams in each age group for the top 25 below. the remainder are ECNL. facts matter

U19 - 6
U17 - 4
U16 - 3
U15 - 6
U14 - 0
U13 - 3

The issue with using the Soccer Rankings app as some definitive way to determine the ECNL vs GA league strength argument is that the methodology isn’t league-neutral. The rankings are heavily driven by strength of schedule algorithms and opponent weighting. 

When ECNL teams play other highly ranked ECNL teams, those wins and losses recycle value back into the ECNL ecosystem. Meanwhile, GA teams often don’t get the same weighting because the algorithm already assumes ECNL competition is stronger based on historical interconnected results. That creates a feedback loop.

So when someone says “only X GA teams are in the Top 25,” they’re ignoring how the rankings are built in the first place. It’s not an equal playing field mathematically.

The app itself even emphasizes opponent quality, strength of schedule, and predictive algorithms as core components of rankings. 

That means:
- An ECNL win over another ECNL team is inherently valued higher.
- GA teams have fewer opportunities to gain algorithmic momentum.

So yes, facts matter. But methodology matters too. If the weighting system favors ECNL match networks, then using those rankings alone as proof of league superiority is incomplete analysis.

Need more chances for leagues to compete against each other. ECNL shelters rankings by having a few extra showcases to make extra money vs giving ECNL teams opportunity to play other leagues...WAGs...Jeff Cup..etc...

ECNL teams play in Jefferson Cup. Plenty of Jefferson Cup ECNL vs GA matchups.

ECNL showcases are for college recruiting, not playing mediocre GA teams.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can even provide a follow up example. A team that barely finished above 500 in league play is still "top 25" as well because all their games were close. The app gives so much weight to strength of schedule that actually winning games isn't that important. I can see how this could be accurate in some cases, but SOS is doing a lot of heavy lifting. The team in question is most definitely not top 25 material.

Prior to strength of schedule being added, ECNL teams were ranked much lower. Facts matter as the ECNL hats like to say.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can even provide a follow up example. A team that barely finished above 500 in league play is still "top 25" as well because all their games were close. The app gives so much weight to strength of schedule that actually winning games isn't that important. I can see how this could be accurate in some cases, but SOS is doing a lot of heavy lifting. The team in question is most definitely not top 25 material.

Prior to strength of schedule being added, ECNL teams were ranked much lower. Facts matter as the ECNL hats like to say.

no rankings are perfect, computerized or by humans. but the app is pretty accurate and the best we have. ga bonnets just don't like the results so they pop-poo it. makes sense

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can even provide a follow up example. A team that barely finished above 500 in league play is still "top 25" as well because all their games were close. The app gives so much weight to strength of schedule that actually winning games isn't that important. I can see how this could be accurate in some cases, but SOS is doing a lot of heavy lifting. The team in question is most definitely not top 25 material.

Prior to strength of schedule being added, ECNL teams were ranked much lower. Facts matter as the ECNL hats like to say.

No strength of schedule factor, no algorithms. Its an elo rating system. Same as used to rank chess players around the world who dont share common opponents.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a huge delta between the top 3-5 GA clubs in the mid Atlantic and the bottom 7-9. Like two different leagues. So while ECNL > GA generally, the top of GA is equally if not more competitive than ECNL.

That’s fair. I think my main concern, pre ECNL parent, is that there is a lot less parity in GA so the lower half of games are much less competitive. That said, a lot of your season becomes playing non-competitive games. That feels like that would hold back growth and development. While yes, ECNL has bottom half teams, there is a lot more parity and thus, each game is still more competitive and thus, you are developing more.

Yes. PP here and I agree with you. But that could be only 1-2 years away from changing if/as MLS pulls clubs away from ECNL and thus GA gets a windfall. Not saying it will happen, but just that it could because there is nothing inherently superior about ECNL over GA. There are a TON of terrible ECNL clubs out there. Only the top 100 or so are competitive. That number for GA is presently about 60.

GA not going to catchup as, based on the teams they are adding/promoting for next year, they are going for quantity and not looking to improve overall quality. Just watering it down even more for the Top GA teams. Oklahoma Celtic was a mid-table RL team that wasn't winning anything in RL and not getting promoted to ECNL. Carolina Core, who won most of the age groups in the Mid-Atlantic Aspire, got trounced my DD's ECNL RL team 5-1. That's not adding anything to improve the quality of of the local GA conference.

[Anonymous]

If your club is in the GA it’s mostly likely a club that the directors care about the boys playing MLSN. That’s why my kid plays at a club that values the girls more.

You can have good coaches in GA but ultimately they still like their boys more which is why they keep your girls side GA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If your club is in the GA it’s mostly likely a club that the directors care about the boys playing MLSN. That’s why my kid plays at a club that values the girls more.

You can have good coaches in GA but ultimately they still like their boys more which is why they keep your girls side GA.

Over time clubs make more money having large number of boys and girls playing vs just girls.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If your club is in the GA it’s mostly likely a club that the directors care about the boys playing MLSN. That’s why my kid plays at a club that values the girls more.

You can have good coaches in GA but ultimately they still like their boys more which is why they keep your girls side GA.

you realize ENCL also keeps clubs out of ECNL to protect other clubs correct? I know this is DCUM but one of the founders of ECNL has protected his horrible club for years to make sure nobody else could get a badge around them.

[Anonymous]

It’s actually kind of crazy when you think about how much weight people put into the Rankings App. It’s not sanctioned by any governing body, there’s no real oversight, and no official authority behind it in any capacity. At the end of the day, it was created by a soccer dad who figured out how to turn rankings into a business.

Yet clubs, parents, and even some coaches treat it like it’s the official measure of team quality. The youth soccer ecosystem has gotten to a point where an unofficial algorithm can shape perception more than actual development, coaching, or long-term player growth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your club is in the GA it’s mostly likely a club that the directors care about the boys playing MLSN. That’s why my kid plays at a club that values the girls more.

You can have good coaches in GA but ultimately they still like their boys more which is why they keep your girls side GA.

you realize ENCL also keeps clubs out of ECNL to protect other clubs correct? I know this is DCUM but one of the founders of ECNL has protected his horrible club for years to make sure nobody else could get a badge around them.

ECNL made a handful of offers last year for clubs to leave MLSN/GA for full ECNL. Clubs said no. Why because the boys side makes them money and coaches want to be in the top league for boys. The girls are just a side project at a lot of clubs.

Any club they has solid GA and MLSN could be full ECNL tomorrow if they really wanted. They don’t want to lose that boys patch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s actually kind of crazy when you think about how much weight people put into the Rankings App. It’s not sanctioned by any governing body, there’s no real oversight, and no official authority behind it in any capacity. At the end of the day, it was created by a soccer dad who figured out how to turn rankings into a business.

Yet clubs, parents, and even some coaches treat it like it’s the official measure of team quality. The youth soccer ecosystem has gotten to a point where an unofficial algorithm can shape perception more than actual development, coaching, or long-term player growth.

LOL, this is ridiculous. If you think 20 is better than 30 that's on you. It definitely helps to define tiers or expectations at a random tournament/event. The reason it is quoted so often is because it's quite accurate.

[Anonymous]

Why are ECNL clubs usually better on the girls side because those clubs have decided to invest more for the girls programs. Your local GA club can make it appear they are trying their best but ultimately girls are number 2 in their eyes.