J.K. Rowling’s post on trans-identity and modern misogyny

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^do you agree that trans people should only be allowed to receive healthcare based on their biological sex or not? If you agree with that and you support providers withholding healthcare from individuals who are trans based on their biological sex, it’s hard to see how you’re pro-trans. You might not be anti-trans but you can’t claim to support trans rights while also being okay with them being denied healthcare.

Pp never said anything about denying healthcare.

No one has. Some angry person on here is seeing so red, they are not reading what people are saying. They are projecting opinions held by anti-trans people in the general public on to the PPs here that support the arguments of JKR.

They are basically saying if you refuse to say that a trans woman is EXACTLY the same as any other (biologically-born) woman and to allow all trans women into ALL spaces that were traditionally reserved for (biologically born) women, then you are anti-trans. Which is false. Even if you would otherwise support protections for trans women, services for trans women, rights for trans women, happily call them by their chosen names and pronouns etc, they don't care. To them, you must say there are no differences or you are the devil.

Nobody said that.

This is pretty much exactly what the trans activists on this thread are saying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^do you agree that trans people should only be allowed to receive healthcare based on their biological sex or not? If you agree with that and you support providers withholding healthcare from individuals who are trans based on their biological sex, it’s hard to see how you’re pro-trans. You might not be anti-trans but you can’t claim to support trans rights while also being okay with them being denied healthcare.

Pp never said anything about denying healthcare.

No one has. Some angry person on here is seeing so red, they are not reading what people are saying. They are projecting opinions held by anti-trans people in the general public on to the PPs here that support the arguments of JKR.

They are basically saying if you refuse to say that a trans woman is EXACTLY the same as any other (biologically-born) woman and to allow all trans women into ALL spaces that were traditionally reserved for (biologically born) women, then you are anti-trans. Which is false. Even if you would otherwise support protections for trans women, services for trans women, rights for trans women, happily call them by their chosen names and pronouns etc, they don't care. To them, you must say there are no differences or you are the devil.

Nobody said that.

Then I suggest you go back and reread this thread. PP just summed up exactly what a lot of those trans activists are saying. There is no wiggle room here. You either support 100% or you are anti trans.

No. Saying “I support them” but also saying their parents shouldn’t let them transition and that biological sex should be used to determine whether someone receives healthcare or rights isn’t really supporting them. In the words of James Baldwin. “I can’t believe what you say because I see what you do.” You cant claim to support when the support only extends to surface things and not the real stuff.

Well said. “I support you but not in meaningful ways”

Once again, “you are not supportive/anti-trans unless you support them in ways I approve of, ways I deem meaningful.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Repeat after me: other people’s gender identity is none of my business and I don’t need to police it. It’s literally not up to you decide when a person can or should transition

x1 million

In our society we protect children. They’re not allowed to drink alcohol, smoke cigarettes, get a tattoo, go to a tanning salon. Yet we’re allowing them to surgically alter their bodies and take hormones. A 4000% increase in girls seeking treatment for gender issues is a cause for serious concern. We should be looking at why so many girls want to opt out of womanhood and boys opt out of manhood. It’s not out of line to raise the alarm over this.

You’re very misinformed. Most teens who transition do not have any type of surgery. The medication they take essentially puts hormonal development “on pause” to allow them time to transition or, if necessary, transition back if they decide to do that. Coming off the medication would continue development as usual. They’re not “opting out” of anything - they are opting into living life that is true to who they are. your faux concern is way off base.

The drugs used to “pause” puberty are not without harm. They can cause a lifetime of issues related to bone loss, including brittle bones and painful joints. https://khn.org/news/women-fear-drug-they-used-to-halt-puberty-led-to-health-problems/

There are minors getting hormones and “top surgery”. They’re being given medications rather than the mental heath care they really need. Here’s one psychiatrist’s story. https://quillette.com/2017/10/06/misunderstanding-new-kind-gender-dysphoria/

Look at Jazz Jennings, arguably the poster child for transitioning as a minor. At the age of 19, Jazz has never experienced an orgasm. She has a vagina which has to be dilated daily, which allows her to participate in a sex act she won’t derive pleasure from. She’s been sterilized. She’ll never have children of her own. All this because at the age of 2, she was a little boy who liked dresses and the color purple, and some say was emulating a beloved older sister.

She has bodily autonomy. You don't get a say in what she (and her family and doctors) decide to do with her body.

But women don't get to say who they allow access to their bodies without being labeled transphobic.(see link in this thread). Lesbians are cancelled, harassed, and receive death threats for saying they don't want to have sex with natal men. And I am sure you agree with that.

You absolutely, 100% do not truly care about bodily autonomy. I think you are lying.

What page was that? I haven’t read all of the early pages.

You are making a lot of assumptions about me. Why is that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^do you agree that trans people should only be allowed to receive healthcare based on their biological sex or not? If you agree with that and you support providers withholding healthcare from individuals who are trans based on their biological sex, it’s hard to see how you’re pro-trans. You might not be anti-trans but you can’t claim to support trans rights while also being okay with them being denied healthcare.

Pp never said anything about denying healthcare.

No one has. Some angry person on here is seeing so red, they are not reading what people are saying. They are projecting opinions held by anti-trans people in the general public on to the PPs here that support the arguments of JKR.

They are basically saying if you refuse to say that a trans woman is EXACTLY the same as any other (biologically-born) woman and to allow all trans women into ALL spaces that were traditionally reserved for (biologically born) women, then you are anti-trans. Which is false. Even if you would otherwise support protections for trans women, services for trans women, rights for trans women, happily call them by their chosen names and pronouns etc, they don't care. To them, you must say there are no differences or you are the devil.

Nobody said that.

Then I suggest you go back and reread this thread. PP just summed up exactly what a lot of those trans activists are saying. There is no wiggle room here. You either support 100% or you are anti trans.

No. Saying “I support them” but also saying their parents shouldn’t let them transition and that biological sex should be used to determine whether someone receives healthcare or rights isn’t really supporting them. In the words of James Baldwin. “I can’t believe what you say because I see what you do.” You cant claim to support when the support only extends to surface things and not the real stuff.

Well said. “I support you but not in meaningful ways”

Once again, “you are not supportive/anti-trans unless you support them in ways I approve of, ways I deem meaningful.”

Explain your views to some trans people and then ask if they feel like you support them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^do you agree that trans people should only be allowed to receive healthcare based on their biological sex or not? If you agree with that and you support providers withholding healthcare from individuals who are trans based on their biological sex, it’s hard to see how you’re pro-trans. You might not be anti-trans but you can’t claim to support trans rights while also being okay with them being denied healthcare.

Pp never said anything about denying healthcare.

No one has. Some angry person on here is seeing so red, they are not reading what people are saying. They are projecting opinions held by anti-trans people in the general public on to the PPs here that support the arguments of JKR.

They are basically saying if you refuse to say that a trans woman is EXACTLY the same as any other (biologically-born) woman and to allow all trans women into ALL spaces that were traditionally reserved for (biologically born) women, then you are anti-trans. Which is false. Even if you would otherwise support protections for trans women, services for trans women, rights for trans women, happily call them by their chosen names and pronouns etc, they don't care. To them, you must say there are no differences or you are the devil.

Nobody said that.

This is pretty much exactly what the trans activists on this thread are saying.

Time stamps?

[Anonymous]

The secular left is quickly finding out, in a world where critical theory increasingly drives how the world is conceptualized, that last week's victim can become this week's oppressor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Repeat after me: other people’s gender identity is none of my business and I don’t need to police it. It’s literally not up to you decide when a person can or should transition

x1 million

In our society we protect children. They’re not allowed to drink alcohol, smoke cigarettes, get a tattoo, go to a tanning salon. Yet we’re allowing them to surgically alter their bodies and take hormones. A 4000% increase in girls seeking treatment for gender issues is a cause for serious concern. We should be looking at why so many girls want to opt out of womanhood and boys opt out of manhood. It’s not out of line to raise the alarm over this.

You’re very misinformed. Most teens who transition do not have any type of surgery. The medication they take essentially puts hormonal development “on pause” to allow them time to transition or, if necessary, transition back if they decide to do that. Coming off the medication would continue development as usual. They’re not “opting out” of anything - they are opting into living life that is true to who they are. your faux concern is way off base.

The drugs used to “pause” puberty are not without harm. They can cause a lifetime of issues related to bone loss, including brittle bones and painful joints. https://khn.org/news/women-fear-drug-they-used-to-halt-puberty-led-to-health-problems/

There are minors getting hormones and “top surgery”. They’re being given medications rather than the mental heath care they really need. Here’s one psychiatrist’s story. https://quillette.com/2017/10/06/misunderstanding-new-kind-gender-dysphoria/

Look at Jazz Jennings, arguably the poster child for transitioning as a minor. At the age of 19, Jazz has never experienced an orgasm. She has a vagina which has to be dilated daily, which allows her to participate in a sex act she won’t derive pleasure from. She’s been sterilized. She’ll never have children of her own. All this because at the age of 2, she was a little boy who liked dresses and the color purple, and some say was emulating a beloved older sister.

She has bodily autonomy. You don't get a say in what she (and her family and doctors) decide to do with her body.

But women don't get to say who they allow access to their bodies without being labeled transphobic.(see link in this thread). Lesbians are cancelled, harassed, and receive death threats for saying they don't want to have sex with natal men. And I am sure you agree with that.

You absolutely, 100% do not truly care about bodily autonomy. I think you are lying.

What page was that? I haven’t read all of the early pages.

You are making a lot of assumptions about me. Why is that?

This article:

https://medium.com/@QSE/when-you-say-i-would-never-date-a-trans-person-its-transphobic-here-s-why-aa6fdcf59aca

I fully support anti-discrimination, use of preferred gender, etc. But articles like this are appalling. NOBODY gets to decide who gets access to my body or any other person's body for me. This article is rape culture straight up. And it is against bodily autonomy.

If you support this author, if you think she is right, you cannot simultaneously say you support bodily autonomy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Do we know the potential long term effects for hormone treatments in adolescence?

Do we know the potential long-term effects for infertility medications/treatments? New cancer treatments? New coronavirus vaccines/treatments?

Patients work with the doctors to weigh treatment risks for all sorts of serious medical issues.

Why focus on this particular one?

Because that is what we are discussing in this thread. It is a legitimate question is you want to talk about adolescents undergoing treatments. In fact, if you are a trans-advocate you SHOULD be asking this question in the interest of the health and safety of these adolescents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^do you agree that trans people should only be allowed to receive healthcare based on their biological sex or not? If you agree with that and you support providers withholding healthcare from individuals who are trans based on their biological sex, it’s hard to see how you’re pro-trans. You might not be anti-trans but you can’t claim to support trans rights while also being okay with them being denied healthcare.

Pp never said anything about denying healthcare.

No one has. Some angry person on here is seeing so red, they are not reading what people are saying. They are projecting opinions held by anti-trans people in the general public on to the PPs here that support the arguments of JKR.

They are basically saying if you refuse to say that a trans woman is EXACTLY the same as any other (biologically-born) woman and to allow all trans women into ALL spaces that were traditionally reserved for (biologically born) women, then you are anti-trans. Which is false. Even if you would otherwise support protections for trans women, services for trans women, rights for trans women, happily call them by their chosen names and pronouns etc, they don't care. To them, you must say there are no differences or you are the devil.

Nobody said that.

Clearly you have not read this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: Like, a butch lesbian isn’t any less of a woman for having a buzzed head and working on motorcycles. Why does feeling comfortable wearing a dress and growing your hair long make you a woman if you have a penis?

I've had the same questions. And I'm a lesbian, if it matters. I'm not saying it doesn't make sense, I'm just saying that I don't understand it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Like, a butch lesbian isn’t any less of a woman for having a buzzed head and working on motorcycles. Why does feeling comfortable wearing a dress and growing your hair long make you a woman if you have a penis?

I've had the same questions. And I'm a lesbian, if it matters. I'm not saying it doesn't make sense, I'm just saying that I don't understand it.

Me neither, another lesbian here. I support everyone’s right to do their own thing, but I don’t get it at all. I usually read FTMs as butch women, which I find hot. MTFs... Generally not attractive to me at all. My libido is a bigot I guess.

However, I will vote for trans rights every time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The secular left is quickly finding out, in a world where critical theory increasingly drives how the world is conceptualized, that last week's victim can become this week's oppressor.

Spoken like a true religious oppressor. You can be as hateful as you want and take away rights of others - all in the name of jesus or whoever, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^do you agree that trans people should only be allowed to receive healthcare based on their biological sex or not? If you agree with that and you support providers withholding healthcare from individuals who are trans based on their biological sex, it’s hard to see how you’re pro-trans. You might not be anti-trans but you can’t claim to support trans rights while also being okay with them being denied healthcare.

Pp never said anything about denying healthcare.

No one has. Some angry person on here is seeing so red, they are not reading what people are saying. They are projecting opinions held by anti-trans people in the general public on to the PPs here that support the arguments of JKR.

They are basically saying if you refuse to say that a trans woman is EXACTLY the same as any other (biologically-born) woman and to allow all trans women into ALL spaces that were traditionally reserved for (biologically born) women, then you are anti-trans. Which is false. Even if you would otherwise support protections for trans women, services for trans women, rights for trans women, happily call them by their chosen names and pronouns etc, they don't care. To them, you must say there are no differences or you are the devil.

Nobody said that.

Then I suggest you go back and reread this thread. PP just summed up exactly what a lot of those trans activists are saying. There is no wiggle room here. You either support 100% or you are anti trans.

I feel like that’s exactly what you’ve been saying emoji poster

Timestamp?

For what? Every single one of your posts has implied that to me. And I b recognize you because you reply with one or two dismissive light on substance barbs and add a

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Repeat after me: other people’s gender identity is none of my business and I don’t need to police it. It’s literally not up to you decide when a person can or should transition

x1 million

In our society we protect children. They’re not allowed to drink alcohol, smoke cigarettes, get a tattoo, go to a tanning salon. Yet we’re allowing them to surgically alter their bodies and take hormones. A 4000% increase in girls seeking treatment for gender issues is a cause for serious concern. We should be looking at why so many girls want to opt out of womanhood and boys opt out of manhood. It’s not out of line to raise the alarm over this.

You’re very misinformed. Most teens who transition do not have any type of surgery. The medication they take essentially puts hormonal development “on pause” to allow them time to transition or, if necessary, transition back if they decide to do that. Coming off the medication would continue development as usual. They’re not “opting out” of anything - they are opting into living life that is true to who they are. your faux concern is way off base.

The drugs used to “pause” puberty are not without harm. They can cause a lifetime of issues related to bone loss, including brittle bones and painful joints. https://khn.org/news/women-fear-drug-they-used-to-halt-puberty-led-to-health-problems/

There are minors getting hormones and “top surgery”. They’re being given medications rather than the mental heath care they really need. Here’s one psychiatrist’s story. https://quillette.com/2017/10/06/misunderstanding-new-kind-gender-dysphoria/

Look at Jazz Jennings, arguably the poster child for transitioning as a minor. At the age of 19, Jazz has never experienced an orgasm. She has a vagina which has to be dilated daily, which allows her to participate in a sex act she won’t derive pleasure from. She’s been sterilized. She’ll never have children of her own. All this because at the age of 2, she was a little boy who liked dresses and the color purple, and some say was emulating a beloved older sister.

She has bodily autonomy. You don't get a say in what she (and her family and doctors) decide to do with her body.

But women don't get to say who they allow access to their bodies without being labeled transphobic.(see link in this thread). Lesbians are cancelled, harassed, and receive death threats for saying they don't want to have sex with natal men. And I am sure you agree with that.

You absolutely, 100% do not truly care about bodily autonomy. I think you are lying.

What page was that? I haven’t read all of the early pages.

You are making a lot of assumptions about me. Why is that?

This article:

https://medium.com/@QSE/when-you-say-i-would-never-date-a-trans-person-its-transphobic-here-s-why-aa6fdcf59aca

I fully support anti-discrimination, use of preferred gender, etc. But articles like this are appalling. NOBODY gets to decide who gets access to my body or any other person's body for me. This article is rape culture straight up. And it is against bodily autonomy.

If you support this author, if you think she is right, you cannot simultaneously say you support bodily autonomy.

It’s complicated - people are attracted to certain looks or characteristics.

I read her op-ed as “keep an open mind” and I don’t really see how you connect that to “rape culture”. Can you explain?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^do you agree that trans people should only be allowed to receive healthcare based on their biological sex or not? If you agree with that and you support providers withholding healthcare from individuals who are trans based on their biological sex, it’s hard to see how you’re pro-trans. You might not be anti-trans but you can’t claim to support trans rights while also being okay with them being denied healthcare.

Pp never said anything about denying healthcare.

No one has. Some angry person on here is seeing so red, they are not reading what people are saying. They are projecting opinions held by anti-trans people in the general public on to the PPs here that support the arguments of JKR.

They are basically saying if you refuse to say that a trans woman is EXACTLY the same as any other (biologically-born) woman and to allow all trans women into ALL spaces that were traditionally reserved for (biologically born) women, then you are anti-trans. Which is false. Even if you would otherwise support protections for trans women, services for trans women, rights for trans women, happily call them by their chosen names and pronouns etc, they don't care. To them, you must say there are no differences or you are the devil.

Nobody said that.

Then I suggest you go back and reread this thread. PP just summed up exactly what a lot of those trans activists are saying. There is no wiggle room here. You either support 100% or you are anti trans.

I feel like that’s exactly what you’ve been saying emoji poster

Timestamp?

For what? Every single one of your posts has implied that to me. And I b recognize you because you reply with one or two dismissive light on substance barbs and add a

I’ve posted many times but it sounds like you are conflating various posters. If you have a specific post in mind please share the time stamp.