Board of Veterans Appeals (Attorney Advisor)
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Anonymous
I mean, there is fairly high turnover in some offices of DOJ, but largely because attorneys with that particular niche experience are marketable to law firms and in-house positions that pay much, much better. I don't think that is the case at BVA. |
Anonymous
| With this new wave of hiring at the BVA, what is the general consensus amongst current employees? Are work conditions getting better, worse, or staying the same? |
Anonymous
My feeling is that has always been a hostile work environment perpetuated by management. Individual judges may vary. |
Anonymous
I agree. Believe it or not, the quota is not the worst part about working at BVA. Experiences at BVA vary greatly depending on the judge you are assigned to. If you get assigned to a nice judge who prefers decisions that are two to three pages long, you will have no problem meeting the quota. You’ll likely exceed the quota, and management will love you. However, if you get assigned to a mean/rude judge and/or a judge who wants thorough 10-20 page decisions, your experience at the Board will be vastly different. Attorneys who are assigned to these judges generally work far in excess of 40 hours a week. While most judges at the Board are decent people who just want to get the job done, about 20 or so judges at the Board have reputations for being toxic. The chance that you’ll get assigned to a toxic judge is relatively high. The worst part about working at the Board is that upper management routinely denies request to transfer away from the toxic judges - management denies transfer requests because they know that if they grant the requests, no one would want to work for the bully judges. If you complain about bullying and/or harassment, management set you up to fail and treat you so badly that you’ll resign. |
Anonymous
This is true. This problem has existed for 20+ years and will likely exist for 20+ more. Management just does not care. Their response is just to tell you to quit, and you'll be replaced with another brand-new law school graduate. Can't wait to see all those new judges come onboard with absolutely no experience in veterans law. That's going to be fun. |
Anonymous
How long ago did you leave? It isn’t like that anymore. Every work environment has some toxic bosses. It’s a good job for some people (even that years old survey had less than half even responding) - those who can work independently, like the benefits of telework and remote work options. If the job is a bad fit, move on (and read the room, get out if you aren’t going to be able to make production; hint if you’re on a good team and are a good worker, they will help you make production. If they don’t like you, they won’t help you. Definitely have to watch your reputation). |
Anonymous
NP here. Nearly 400 Board attorneys responded to the FY2018 union survey. While I agree that less than half of the Board's attorney staff responded to that survey, 400 is still a large number. When nearly 400 Board attorneys complain about the work environment, perhaps that's indicative of something more than just "some toxic bosses"? I also agree that some Board attorneys like working at the Board because of benefits such as telework and remote options; however, I'm pretty sure that those attorneys are assigned to judges who are supportive and protective of their attorneys. A large percentage of Board judges are not like that. Hence the reason for the high attrition rates at the Board. Even if you like your judge, there's no guarantee that you'll stay with that judge, as management changes team assignments from time to time. FY2018 union survey: https://acrobat.adobe.com/link/track?uri=urn%3Aaaid%3Ascds%3AUS%3A4dc55b1b-80ed-4b2c-9e0a-155be961d998#pageNum=111 |
Anonymous
If you’re a bad enough attorney to get fired from the board, being an attorney is probably not the job for you. It’s not that hard to avoid getting fired. |
Anonymous
Don't you have to be a bad attorney to even apply or hear about BVA opportunities? Veterans law (or whatever you call it) isn't discussed in law school or even mentioned by career services. |
Anonymous
Management rarely fires attorneys through the formal adverse action process. Normally, when management doesn't like an attorney, management will nitpick that individual's work so intensely that the attorney will lose confidence, breakdown, and resign. Management will only formally fire an attorney if the attorney doesn't "voluntarily" resign and/or fights back. Attorneys assigned to the nice judges don't understand what it is like to work for the toxic judges. These attorneys tend to think everything is great at the Board... that is, until they get reassigned to a toxic judge. The extremely high attrition rate at the Board suggests that the work environment is not as rosy as you say it is. If anyone is interested in seeing what a typical Board decision looks like, click on the link below. https://www.va.gov/vetapp21/Files9/A21016123.txt |
Anonymous
Hmm... you make a good point. Perhaps that's why management at the Board tests the writing skills of every prospective Board attorney prior to hiring? But, truth be told, I don't think Board attorneys are "bad" attorneys. Sure, many Board attorneys (such as myself) went to unranked law schools and/or performed poorly in law school, but that does not automatically make us bad attorneys. I suspect that many Board attorneys, including myself, if given the opportunity, would be decent attorneys at most small law firms across the country. Unfortunately, no law firm wanted to hire me, and I had no options other than to take a decision writing job at the Board. Perhaps, I'm not a "real" attorney, but it is what it is. That's life. |
Anonymous
I've known plenty of very good BVA attorneys with 10+ years of outstanding evaluations who get reassigned to a toxic judge and get pressured to leave. Management absolutely doesn't back up attorneys, good or otherwise. They can always find more. |
Anonymous
I've worked there for many years. This isn't the job for everyone and some people will think it sucks. There are a few judges who are really, really terrible. But, most of them are okay and some are actively good to work for. If you get one of the bad ones, the job will suck, that's the truth. But, odds are the judge you get will be okay. |
Anonymous
Even if you get lucky and are assigned to a kind hearted judge, there is no guarantee that you'll be able to stay with that judge forever. Management moves attorneys around from time to time. Like the poster above, I too have seen several career GS-14 attorneys with decades of outstanding evaluations get their careers destroyed after they were reassigned to one of the really, really terrible judges - the ones you are referring to. One's success or failure shouldn't be wholly dependent on the luck of the draw or the graces of a judge. Additionally, one's experience at the Board is also highly dependent on whether one is assigned to a judge with high denial rate or high grant rate. Attorneys who are assigned to judges with high denial rates regularly have to draft decisions that are long, detailed, and well-reasoned, to ensure that the denials are defensible in federal court. Many of these attorneys have to work in excess of 40 hours a week to meet the quota. In contrast, attorneys who are assigned to judges with high grant rates, generally have no problem meeting or even exceeding the quota, as they can write conclusory decisions that are typically no longer than three pages (as VA disability claims are non-adversarial, the government cannot appeal decisions granting benefits). I don't think that kind of disparity is fair. |
Anonymous
I looked at the survey. I find it surprising that 70 percent of the 395 attorneys who responded to the survey had less than five years of experience. Strange. I wonder why people aren't staying at the Board long term. |