Confederate Battle Flag

[Anonymous]

Racists and the symbols they cling to deserve the place at the bottom of society where they have been relegated. We live in a free country that holds its nose as people gather at klan rallies, but we see them for what they are: unrepentant racists who deserve neither respect nor a proper place in society.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You don't control the way others interpret symbols..... We would all be well served to remember this.

That cuts both ways, which is why most thinking people don't buy into the "heritage not hate" crap that apologists keep putting out there, because thinking people are acutely aware that the only major historical events associated with the Confederate flag are the bloody and awful Civil War which cost so many lives, which was indeed about slavery, after which the Confederate flag was largely abandoned and laid dormant for decades, only to be resurrected in connection with the KKK in the early 1900s, and making a strong resurgence in protest to desegregation and the Civil Rights movement. Sadly those are things that have not been correctly, completely or accurately taught in many southern States, leaving some to believe the revisionist version and deny those associations.

It does cut both ways!!! I am pro flag. I mean precisely that- your description of the flags meaning differs greatly from mine. If you understand that my flying the flag is not about segregation (for me!) then you'll understand my position better, just as I should open my mind to yours.

That approach does not necessarily lead to agreement, but at least acknowledges that there are real people with differing views.

Let's try and explore that - what *specific* piece of heritage or history can you relate to relative to the Confederate flag, which does not have anything to do with slavery, segregation or racism?

Again, you can't say states rights - because it is well documented that from the 1850s up to the Civil War, the "states rights" issue debated in Congress and on the streets and in the taverns of America was specifically about the right to not just continue the practice of slavery, but to expand it into the western territories. To say it was about "states rights" and not slavery is not a "difference of views" that is not telling the full story, because you have to also talk about the states' rights TO DO WHAT. Slavery is the "what" that the rights battle was over. So you can't earnestly say you have a difference of view there, when the reality would be you don't have all the facts.

What other historical event is there? The Confederate flag was generally not used in the South for many decades after the Civil War ended. After the war, Robert E. Lee said it should not be used, for that matter no Confederate symbols should be used, as he felt it was important to put the wounds and scars behind and reunite as a nation. It was those who wanted to reopen the wounds and scratch at the scars who resurrected the Confederate flag and trotted it back out. The flag made its biggest resurgence as a protest banner during the era of Civil Rights, flown by segregationists. Again, if you disagree, that is not a "difference of views" - it is a denial of facts.

The Confederate flag was used for 4 years during the Civil War. During those 4 years it represented secession, it represented tearing the nation into pieces, and it represented slavery.

After that, it was abandoned, and for decades, it represented nothing, apart from the occasional obscure reference to the CSA.

It was resurrected a little over 50 years ago as a symbol of segregation. That is also a fact.

What true GOOD has it been a banner for in history? The Dukes of Hazzard? Hollywoodized, cartoonized version of the South? Come on.

Thus far nobody has been able to articulate this meaningfully, other than generalized, meaningless babble of "It's a symbol of the South and Southern heritage" - without being able to explain. If you can't explain or give examples, then there's a problem with your thinking and rationalization.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You don't control the way others interpret symbols..... We would all be well served to remember this.

That cuts both ways, which is why most thinking people don't buy into the "heritage not hate" crap that apologists keep putting out there, because thinking people are acutely aware that the only major historical events associated with the Confederate flag are the bloody and awful Civil War which cost so many lives, which was indeed about slavery, after which the Confederate flag was largely abandoned and laid dormant for decades, only to be resurrected in connection with the KKK in the early 1900s, and making a strong resurgence in protest to desegregation and the Civil Rights movement. Sadly those are things that have not been correctly, completely or accurately taught in many southern States, leaving some to believe the revisionist version and deny those associations.

It does cut both ways!!! I am pro flag. I mean precisely that- your description of the flags meaning differs greatly from mine. If you understand that my flying the flag is not about segregation (for me!) then you'll understand my position better, just as I should open my mind to yours.

That approach does not necessarily lead to agreement, but at least acknowledges that there are real people with differing views.

By this standard, any Muslim could fly the flag of ISIS, because it's just a bunch of words which proclaim faith in Allah and a belief that Mohammed is a prophet. What is the harm in that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You don't control the way others interpret symbols..... We would all be well served to remember this.

That cuts both ways, which is why most thinking people don't buy into the "heritage not hate" crap that apologists keep putting out there, because thinking people are acutely aware that the only major historical events associated with the Confederate flag are the bloody and awful Civil War which cost so many lives, which was indeed about slavery, after which the Confederate flag was largely abandoned and laid dormant for decades, only to be resurrected in connection with the KKK in the early 1900s, and making a strong resurgence in protest to desegregation and the Civil Rights movement. Sadly those are things that have not been correctly, completely or accurately taught in many southern States, leaving some to believe the revisionist version and deny those associations.

It does cut both ways!!! I am pro flag. I mean precisely that- your description of the flags meaning differs greatly from mine. If you understand that my flying the flag is not about segregation (for me!) then you'll understand my position better, just as I should open my mind to yours.

That approach does not necessarily lead to agreement, but at least acknowledges that there are real people with differing views.

By this standard, any Muslim could fly the flag of ISIS, because it's just a bunch of words which proclaim faith in Allah and a belief that Mohammed is a prophet. What is the harm in that?

It is impossible to argue with you since you are so deeply versed in southern history -- actually you think you know so much that you don't.... Simply look in google images for confederate reunion and you'll find picture after picture of the stars and bars from the years after the war.... Do you think the veterans kids and grandkids attended these? You make dogmatic class statements that the flag was hidden until the segregation debates - simply not true.

[Anonymous]

How could a banner under which so many served and died ever mean "nothing." The worst war and American history and it means "nothing" - zero- no significance. Get a grip- that's simply impossible.

[Anonymous]

Wow the confederate reunion pictures are beautiful- worth looking at.

[Anonymous]

Confederate flag was largely abandoned and laid dormant for decades

It was always a potent symbol- ironically so potent it could not be displayed during reconstruction- not readily- and only the passage of time allowed it to be popularly used.... The idea that people in the south land would not have recognize that symbol in, say the 1890s is absurd.

[Anonymous]

Ha these reunion photos just roasted the claim that the flag was unused/unseen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You don't control the way others interpret symbols..... We would all be well served to remember this.

That cuts both ways, which is why most thinking people don't buy into the "heritage not hate" crap that apologists keep putting out there, because thinking people are acutely aware that the only major historical events associated with the Confederate flag are the bloody and awful Civil War which cost so many lives, which was indeed about slavery, after which the Confederate flag was largely abandoned and laid dormant for decades, only to be resurrected in connection with the KKK in the early 1900s, and making a strong resurgence in protest to desegregation and the Civil Rights movement. Sadly those are things that have not been correctly, completely or accurately taught in many southern States, leaving some to believe the revisionist version and deny those associations.

It does cut both ways!!! I am pro flag. I mean precisely that- your description of the flags meaning differs greatly from mine. If you understand that my flying the flag is not about segregation (for me!) then you'll understand my position better, just as I should open my mind to yours.

That approach does not necessarily lead to agreement, but at least acknowledges that there are real people with differing views.

By this standard, any Muslim could fly the flag of ISIS, because it's just a bunch of words which proclaim faith in Allah and a belief that Mohammed is a prophet. What is the harm in that?

It is impossible to argue with you since you are so deeply versed in southern history -- actually you think you know so much that you don't.... Simply look in google images for confederate reunion and you'll find picture after picture of the stars and bars from the years after the war.... Do you think the veterans kids and grandkids attended these? You make dogmatic class statements that the flag was hidden until the segregation debates - simply not true.

Yes, the flag was brought out for certain occasions such as gatherings of former confederates, and nobody said otherwise - but it was *not* flown above statehouses and was *not* part of state flags until much more recently.

But it's also quite noteworthy that General Robert E. Lee himself said quite clearly that the Confederate flag SHOULD NOT EVER BE FLOWN AGAIN. And it is indisputable that he, as the commanding general of the CSA knew A LOT MORE about the flag, it's history, it's heritage, and what it stood for than YOU or anyone else who is a proponent of the flag ever did or ever will.

People who want to tout its heritage and history and who want to insist on flying it look quite foolish, and uneducated and clueless on history in light of Robert E. Lee's perspectives on it.

[Anonymous]

^ And still, nobody has been able to articulate what, specifically, is so great and wonderful about the Confederate flag.

[Anonymous]

It us like keeping a picture if your ex girlfriend on your nightstand after you married someone else. I am not saying thorw away the photo, but at least keep it in the closet!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It us like keeping a picture if your ex girlfriend on your nightstand after you married someone else. I am not saying thorw away the photo, but at least keep it in the closet!

It's like getting drafted by the Patriots, and showing up for every practice in a Jets jersey. Except that's flawed, because every once in a while the Jets win.

[Anonymous]

It's nothing short of willful ignorance to try and suggest the Confederate flag has nothing to do with segregation and slavery...

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's kind of interesting to see how politicians and talking heads are bullshitting about people coming together, finding unity etc. It makes me sad the rest of the country is gladly buying into it. SC is still the same it was yesterday, with the same problems. The flag is just an object, after all.

If it was just an object, not so many people would care so much about it. Do you know Governor David Beasley, a Republican, lost his election to a Democrat because he dared to move the confederate flag from the top of the Capitol dome to where it was until this morning?

This is exactly what it is. Politics. I live in South Carolina, and I can assure you that the overwhelming majority of South Carolinians have other things to worry about. People I work with (black, white, foreign-born) don't have the time to protest the flag in Columbia. They have day jobs. They are also savvy enough to understand that public figures jump on the opportunity to advance their careers. Nikki Hayley is delusional if she thinks a former seamstress can get much further than Columbia, but I command the girl for trying. This is very American

Sorry for rambling, I'm just really disgusted by politicians who exploit yet another tragedy. Psychopaths.

Wow, there is a lot packed into that response. Those protesting the flag don't have jobs, or at least day jobs? Nikki Haley is simply a "former seamstress" who is potentially "delusional"? Haley, who based on the best evidence is a grown woman, is simply a "girl" to you? It sounds like someone is bent out of shape about others not knowing their place.

No, it sounds like someone stating facts. Feel free to read into them any way you see fit

[Anonymous]

Running a multimillion dollar business is "just a seamstress?"
A 43 year old woman is "just a girl?"

That's "stating facts?"

I guess that's like saying the Republican Party is a little boys club.

Have it your way...