Chevy Chase Community Center Redevelopment

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I always find funny about these “Ward 3 is white because of racism” folks is that they’re almost always white transplants who made the decision to move to ward 3. Ward 3 is white because that’s where white people like them decided to move, and then they cry that it’s racist that people like them decided to move there.

For instance, here’s Matt Frumin, who’s from Michigan:

“I’ve been saying this: Ward 3 came to look the way it did” — that is to say, White and rich — “because of exclusion based on intentional policies — exclusion and then segregation,” Frumin told me. “And we need intentional policies to remedy what happened in the past.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/01/31/making-dcs-ward-3-an-example-all-land/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=wp_local

Frumin, the reason ward 3 is full of well-off white people like you is because that’s where you and other well-off white people like you decided to move to. You could have moved to any other neighborhood in the city if you thought white people moving to ward 3 was segregationist. But being a white person, moving to a neighborhood, and then acting like it’s a travesty when other white people do the same thing is idiotic.

(The article is funny too, because Frumin says ward 3 is white because of segregation, and then goes on to say that he thinks his black friend didn’t buy a house in Tenleytown because his friend didn’t want to be around so many white people.)

You really miss the point. It is in the bolded. And also this from the article:

"Today, White households in D.C. have 81 times the wealth of Black households — with 1,500 households in the city worth more than $30 million, according to the DC Fiscal Policy Institute."

Nobody is claiming that a white person's choice to move to the neighborhood is segregationist. They are claiming that the fact that more people have the opportunity to move to that neighborhood is the result of intentional policies in the past. And the belief that intentional policies are required in the present to remedy that.

I’d love to live in Potomac, but I can’t afford to. What about me?

It's challenging to do smart transit-oriented development in Potomac.

Chevy Chase Rec Center is a mile from the metro station. This has nothing to do with "transit-oriented development".

It's actualy 7/10 of a mile from the metro station. I don't get it...if you are within a mile of a metro station, then you are close to a metro station.

It's also across the street from a Bus Depot. That's mass transit too. Although you can be forgiven for forgetting that, since you're above riding on a bus.

That's not a bus depot. You would know that if you either lived in the area or took the bus.

Let's see.. its a large area with a parking lot where buses come east and west and head south, where they engage in transfers, where there's shelter, and an inside area with a bathroom. What do you want me to call it? A really nice bus stop?

And that's where you gave yourself away as someone that not only doesn't live in the area but also doesn't take the bus.

I take the L2 at Nebraska and Conn down to admo and back. I don't live in MD and I have no compelling reason to travel north of DC to there, so no reason to transfer to the MTA bus.

The only bus that goes there is the L2.

The E4 ceased to exist?

The E4 doesn't go there

It's a block away.. that's a transfer point... less walking to get to the E4 than to change from red to green at gallery place..

In point of fact it is not a transfer point. The bus depot for the area is at Friendship Heights.

It's a bit ironic that you don't know any of this because that location is developer manna.

It is a transfer point to MTA. And you can hop on the E4 to go to Friendship Heights. Why is this so hard for you?

Wrong again.

The E4 crosses Connecticut on a different street.

Because you are making up bullshit.

DP. I'm looking at Google Maps. The E4 and L2 both have stops at Connecticut/McKinley, and it's a 16-minute walk from Connecticut/McKinley to Friendship Heights Metro. What are you arguing about?

Just open up the previous replies. It's very straight forward.

IT CROSSES ONE FREAKING BLOCK SOUTH OF THE BUS TRANSFER STOP

2.5 blocks since you're counting. You can't even be honest about that. Regardless, it's not a bus depot, transfer station or anything else you're pretending it to be. Remember that this all started because you were trying to make something up to double down on your fallacious claim that this is transit oriented development.

It's the rampant dishonesty and ascerbic insults that engenders the strident opposition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I always find funny about these “Ward 3 is white because of racism” folks is that they’re almost always white transplants who made the decision to move to ward 3. Ward 3 is white because that’s where white people like them decided to move, and then they cry that it’s racist that people like them decided to move there.

For instance, here’s Matt Frumin, who’s from Michigan:

“I’ve been saying this: Ward 3 came to look the way it did” — that is to say, White and rich — “because of exclusion based on intentional policies — exclusion and then segregation,” Frumin told me. “And we need intentional policies to remedy what happened in the past.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/01/31/making-dcs-ward-3-an-example-all-land/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=wp_local

Frumin, the reason ward 3 is full of well-off white people like you is because that’s where you and other well-off white people like you decided to move to. You could have moved to any other neighborhood in the city if you thought white people moving to ward 3 was segregationist. But being a white person, moving to a neighborhood, and then acting like it’s a travesty when other white people do the same thing is idiotic.

(The article is funny too, because Frumin says ward 3 is white because of segregation, and then goes on to say that he thinks his black friend didn’t buy a house in Tenleytown because his friend didn’t want to be around so many white people.)

You really miss the point. It is in the bolded. And also this from the article:

"Today, White households in D.C. have 81 times the wealth of Black households — with 1,500 households in the city worth more than $30 million, according to the DC Fiscal Policy Institute."

Nobody is claiming that a white person's choice to move to the neighborhood is segregationist. They are claiming that the fact that more people have the opportunity to move to that neighborhood is the result of intentional policies in the past. And the belief that intentional policies are required in the present to remedy that.

I’d love to live in Potomac, but I can’t afford to. What about me?

It's challenging to do smart transit-oriented development in Potomac.

Chevy Chase Rec Center is a mile from the metro station. This has nothing to do with "transit-oriented development".

It's actualy 7/10 of a mile from the metro station. I don't get it...if you are within a mile of a metro station, then you are close to a metro station.

It's also across the street from a Bus Depot. That's mass transit too. Although you can be forgiven for forgetting that, since you're above riding on a bus.

That's not a bus depot. You would know that if you either lived in the area or took the bus.

Let's see.. its a large area with a parking lot where buses come east and west and head south, where they engage in transfers, where there's shelter, and an inside area with a bathroom. What do you want me to call it? A really nice bus stop?

And that's where you gave yourself away as someone that not only doesn't live in the area but also doesn't take the bus.

I take the L2 at Nebraska and Conn down to admo and back. I don't live in MD and I have no compelling reason to travel north of DC to there, so no reason to transfer to the MTA bus.

The only bus that goes there is the L2.

The E4 ceased to exist?

The E4 doesn't go there

It's a block away.. that's a transfer point... less walking to get to the E4 than to change from red to green at gallery place..

In point of fact it is not a transfer point. The bus depot for the area is at Friendship Heights.

It's a bit ironic that you don't know any of this because that location is developer manna.

It is a transfer point to MTA. And you can hop on the E4 to go to Friendship Heights. Why is this so hard for you?

Wrong again.

The E4 crosses Connecticut on a different street.

Because you are making up bullshit.

DP. I'm looking at Google Maps. The E4 and L2 both have stops at Connecticut/McKinley, and it's a 16-minute walk from Connecticut/McKinley to Friendship Heights Metro. What are you arguing about?

Just open up the previous replies. It's very straight forward.

PP here. I don't think it's straight forward at all. This is about the Chevy Chase Community Center at Connecticut and McKinley, right? And the E4 and the L2 both have stops at Connecticut and McKinley, right? So, what specifically are you disputing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I always find funny about these “Ward 3 is white because of racism” folks is that they’re almost always white transplants who made the decision to move to ward 3. Ward 3 is white because that’s where white people like them decided to move, and then they cry that it’s racist that people like them decided to move there.

For instance, here’s Matt Frumin, who’s from Michigan:

“I’ve been saying this: Ward 3 came to look the way it did” — that is to say, White and rich — “because of exclusion based on intentional policies — exclusion and then segregation,” Frumin told me. “And we need intentional policies to remedy what happened in the past.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/01/31/making-dcs-ward-3-an-example-all-land/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=wp_local

Frumin, the reason ward 3 is full of well-off white people like you is because that’s where you and other well-off white people like you decided to move to. You could have moved to any other neighborhood in the city if you thought white people moving to ward 3 was segregationist. But being a white person, moving to a neighborhood, and then acting like it’s a travesty when other white people do the same thing is idiotic.

(The article is funny too, because Frumin says ward 3 is white because of segregation, and then goes on to say that he thinks his black friend didn’t buy a house in Tenleytown because his friend didn’t want to be around so many white people.)

You really miss the point. It is in the bolded. And also this from the article:

"Today, White households in D.C. have 81 times the wealth of Black households — with 1,500 households in the city worth more than $30 million, according to the DC Fiscal Policy Institute."

Nobody is claiming that a white person's choice to move to the neighborhood is segregationist. They are claiming that the fact that more people have the opportunity to move to that neighborhood is the result of intentional policies in the past. And the belief that intentional policies are required in the present to remedy that.

I’d love to live in Potomac, but I can’t afford to. What about me?

It's challenging to do smart transit-oriented development in Potomac.

Chevy Chase Rec Center is a mile from the metro station. This has nothing to do with "transit-oriented development".

It's actualy 7/10 of a mile from the metro station. I don't get it...if you are within a mile of a metro station, then you are close to a metro station.

It's also across the street from a Bus Depot. That's mass transit too. Although you can be forgiven for forgetting that, since you're above riding on a bus.

That's not a bus depot. You would know that if you either lived in the area or took the bus.

Let's see.. its a large area with a parking lot where buses come east and west and head south, where they engage in transfers, where there's shelter, and an inside area with a bathroom. What do you want me to call it? A really nice bus stop?

And that's where you gave yourself away as someone that not only doesn't live in the area but also doesn't take the bus.

I take the L2 at Nebraska and Conn down to admo and back. I don't live in MD and I have no compelling reason to travel north of DC to there, so no reason to transfer to the MTA bus.

The only bus that goes there is the L2.

The E4 ceased to exist?

The E4 doesn't go there

It's a block away.. that's a transfer point... less walking to get to the E4 than to change from red to green at gallery place..

In point of fact it is not a transfer point. The bus depot for the area is at Friendship Heights.

It's a bit ironic that you don't know any of this because that location is developer manna.

It is a transfer point to MTA. And you can hop on the E4 to go to Friendship Heights. Why is this so hard for you?

Wrong again.

The E4 crosses Connecticut on a different street.

Because you are making up bullshit.

DP. I'm looking at Google Maps. The E4 and L2 both have stops at Connecticut/McKinley, and it's a 16-minute walk from Connecticut/McKinley to Friendship Heights Metro. What are you arguing about?

Just open up the previous replies. It's very straight forward.

PP here. I don't think it's straight forward at all. This is about the Chevy Chase Community Center at Connecticut and McKinley, right? And the E4 and the L2 both have stops at Connecticut and McKinley, right? So, what specifically are you disputing?

No. This is about the L2 bus terminus at Connecticut and Oliver. It's very straight forward. The person claimed that it was a transfer station for both the E4 and Ride On when it is not.

[Anonymous]

This does not bode well for downtown. Wonder how tightening credit may impact the CC project?

https://www.bizjournals.com/washington/news/2023/12/07/dc-madison-highland-office-conversion-treasury.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This does not bode well for downtown. Wonder how tightening credit may impact the CC project?

https://www.bizjournals.com/washington/news/2023/12/07/dc-madison-highland-office-conversion-treasury.html

Not as much. Because DC is retaining the land and entering into a 99-year ground lease with the developer, the developer will not have to pay the land acquisition costs for the Civic Core. This provides more project flexibility.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This does not bode well for downtown. Wonder how tightening credit may impact the CC project?

https://www.bizjournals.com/washington/news/2023/12/07/dc-madison-highland-office-conversion-treasury.html

Not as much. Because DC is retaining the land and entering into a 99-year ground lease with the developer, the developer will not have to pay the land acquisition costs for the Civic Core. This provides more project flexibility.

How is that better? DC takes on the main risk + doesn't get any property tax revenue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This does not bode well for downtown. Wonder how tightening credit may impact the CC project?

https://www.bizjournals.com/washington/news/2023/12/07/dc-madison-highland-office-conversion-treasury.html

Not as much. Because DC is retaining the land and entering into a 99-year ground lease with the developer, the developer will not have to pay the land acquisition costs for the Civic Core. This provides more project flexibility.

How is that better? DC takes on the main risk + doesn't get any property tax revenue.

It’s better for the developer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This does not bode well for downtown. Wonder how tightening credit may impact the CC project?

https://www.bizjournals.com/washington/news/2023/12/07/dc-madison-highland-office-conversion-treasury.html

Not as much. Because DC is retaining the land and entering into a 99-year ground lease with the developer, the developer will not have to pay the land acquisition costs for the Civic Core. This provides more project flexibility.

How is that better? DC takes on the main risk + doesn't get any property tax revenue.

DC gets lease payments equivalent or greater than tax revenue. It is locked in and a safer revenue stream for the city. It is a normal and common practice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This does not bode well for downtown. Wonder how tightening credit may impact the CC project?

https://www.bizjournals.com/washington/news/2023/12/07/dc-madison-highland-office-conversion-treasury.html

Not as much. Because DC is retaining the land and entering into a 99-year ground lease with the developer, the developer will not have to pay the land acquisition costs for the Civic Core. This provides more project flexibility.

How is that better? DC takes on the main risk + doesn't get any property tax revenue.

It gets property tax revenue on the "private" part of the development, it also gets the income taxes and sales taxes of the people who live in the building.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This does not bode well for downtown. Wonder how tightening credit may impact the CC project?

https://www.bizjournals.com/washington/news/2023/12/07/dc-madison-highland-office-conversion-treasury.html

Not as much. Because DC is retaining the land and entering into a 99-year ground lease with the developer, the developer will not have to pay the land acquisition costs for the Civic Core. This provides more project flexibility.

How is that better? DC takes on the main risk + doesn't get any property tax revenue.

It’s better for the developer.

Much better for the developer, who doesn't bear the very substantial cost of purchasing the land (or paying property taxes on the land). Meanwhile the developer has a 99-year lease on the property, which is a long time. At the end of the lease, the buildings will revert to the DC government, but they likely will have little value at that point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This does not bode well for downtown. Wonder how tightening credit may impact the CC project?

https://www.bizjournals.com/washington/news/2023/12/07/dc-madison-highland-office-conversion-treasury.html

Not as much. Because DC is retaining the land and entering into a 99-year ground lease with the developer, the developer will not have to pay the land acquisition costs for the Civic Core. This provides more project flexibility.

How is that better? DC takes on the main risk + doesn't get any property tax revenue.

DC gets lease payments equivalent or greater than tax revenue. It is locked in and a safer revenue stream for the city. It is a normal and common practice.

Are you correct or is the poster after you?

What are the size of these lease payments?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This does not bode well for downtown. Wonder how tightening credit may impact the CC project?

https://www.bizjournals.com/washington/news/2023/12/07/dc-madison-highland-office-conversion-treasury.html

Not as much. Because DC is retaining the land and entering into a 99-year ground lease with the developer, the developer will not have to pay the land acquisition costs for the Civic Core. This provides more project flexibility.

How is that better? DC takes on the main risk + doesn't get any property tax revenue.

DC gets lease payments equivalent or greater than tax revenue. It is locked in and a safer revenue stream for the city. It is a normal and common practice.

I'm sorry but 99 year ground leases are not normal in the US. Isn't that the sports stadium model?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This does not bode well for downtown. Wonder how tightening credit may impact the CC project?

https://www.bizjournals.com/washington/news/2023/12/07/dc-madison-highland-office-conversion-treasury.html

Not as much. Because DC is retaining the land and entering into a 99-year ground lease with the developer, the developer will not have to pay the land acquisition costs for the Civic Core. This provides more project flexibility.

How is that better? DC takes on the main risk + doesn't get any property tax revenue.

DC gets lease payments equivalent or greater than tax revenue. It is locked in and a safer revenue stream for the city. It is a normal and common practice.

Are you correct or is the poster after you?

What are the size of these lease payments?

I don't know what the exact terms are, because no ground lease has been executed. But if you want to know more about how common these are, here are some sources:

https://www.fool.com/investing/stock-market/market-sectors/real-estate-investing/commercial-real-estate/ground-lease/
https://www.rockefellergroup.com/news/jv-led-by-stonebridge-and-rockefeller-group-officially-breaks-ground-on-washington-d-c-s-first-new-office-development-of-2023/
https://dmped.dc.gov/page/waterfront-station-ii

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This does not bode well for downtown. Wonder how tightening credit may impact the CC project?

https://www.bizjournals.com/washington/news/2023/12/07/dc-madison-highland-office-conversion-treasury.html

Not as much. Because DC is retaining the land and entering into a 99-year ground lease with the developer, the developer will not have to pay the land acquisition costs for the Civic Core. This provides more project flexibility.

How is that better? DC takes on the main risk + doesn't get any property tax revenue.

DC gets lease payments equivalent or greater than tax revenue. It is locked in and a safer revenue stream for the city. It is a normal and common practice.

I'm sorry but 99 year ground leases are not normal in the US. Isn't that the sports stadium model?

That's the only model the DC government has experience with "negotiating."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This does not bode well for downtown. Wonder how tightening credit may impact the CC project?

https://www.bizjournals.com/washington/news/2023/12/07/dc-madison-highland-office-conversion-treasury.html

Not as much. Because DC is retaining the land and entering into a 99-year ground lease with the developer, the developer will not have to pay the land acquisition costs for the Civic Core. This provides more project flexibility.

How is that better? DC takes on the main risk + doesn't get any property tax revenue.

DC gets lease payments equivalent or greater than tax revenue. It is locked in and a safer revenue stream for the city. It is a normal and common practice.

Are you correct or is the poster after you?

What are the size of these lease payments?

I don't know what the exact terms are, because no ground lease has been executed. But if you want to know more about how common these are, here are some sources:

https://www.fool.com/investing/stock-market/market-sectors/real-estate-investing/commercial-real-estate/ground-lease/
https://www.rockefellergroup.com/news/jv-led-by-stonebridge-and-rockefeller-group-officially-breaks-ground-on-washington-d-c-s-first-new-office-development-of-2023/
https://dmped.dc.gov/page/waterfront-station-ii

We don't know what the projected lease payments are or how much "affordable" housing the development will contain.

But the future for the "Chevy Chase Civic Core" is welcoming, vibrant, inclusive, equitable and glorious!*

* for the crony developer that is chosen.