Asian American student with 1590 SAT score blames affirmative action for rejections from 6 colleges

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the solution.

Set a filter with X GPA and Y SAT scores. Throw all people who make it into the pool and use a random computer algorithm to pick people.

Totally the fairest way to choose. All of the extraneous stuff is nonsense. Schools should decide where they want to set the bar for quality, then have a completely race agnostic system for selection. Drawing straws is fair after the cutoff is met.

Then you just deal with an overcrowded CS/ENG dept and nobody in the English dept? So much more does (and should ) go into selecting a freshman class

It really doesn't take a slide ruler or advanced calculus to figure this out.

Fill out application with random assigned number that kids your name and identity. Select top 3 choices for major. Input GPA/SAT. Done.

No fluff. No legacies. No identities. Randomly pick people who meet a cutoff for GPA/SAT. You can include parameters for random selection based on major choice and limits for capacity.

Students get accept or reject letter stating which majors they're admitted to. This is a minor problem.

That is ridiculous.

They really need to just apply to European schools (or many asian countries as well) who you take a test, score high enough you get in

Maybe, that’s why foreign schools are now ranked higher than US universities in technical fields like engineering. They’re admitting the best and brightest abroad and not based on flimsy ID baskets.

True. Look at US News best global engineering school rankings. Even scarier is the fact that many of China’s engineering schools in the world’s T25 or T50 don’t even belong to their Ministry of Education—they belong to their Ministry of Defense. Including world’s #5, Harbin, which is ranked just below world’s #4, MIT. It’s a military technical university.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-global-universities/engineering

Yup.

Americans are oblivious to how fast they're falling behind in technical fields.

I wouldn’t say that we are falling behind fast, but China’s rise is a huge concern. I read a few things about their history of nuclear and missile programs. Not long ago (a few decades ago) the majority of that nation was poor uneducated peasants. But they did have a few brilliant students who studied in the US and (to a lesser extent) Europe. The founder of their missile and space program was an MIT Ph.D. and CalTech professor. The father of their atomic bomb was a Purdue Boilermaker, helped by some Michigan Wolverines. (Wonder if there was a Big Ten rivalry in their nuclear and missile research facilities.) A CalTech Ph.D. and cofounder of Cornell’s aeronautical engineering (along with William Sears) (now part of Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering Dept) also contributed greatly to their weapons programs. Allegedly he died in a plane crash in China—carrying hydrogen bomb design documents. Just want to say that we are in a life-or-death struggle for technological supremacy. The competition for technological supremacy is fiercer than ever in human history. Does AA/DEI help or hurt us in maintaining technological supremacy? Different people may have different opinions, but that’s a question we must answer.

Do we think certain groups of people will help us maintain technological superiority?

A factoid: That CalTech professor who was the founder of China’s space and missile programs—believe his name is Tsien—he was suspected of being a communist during McCarthy era—because he participated in a leftist group in the 1930’s. Allegedly he and other CalTech researchers protested against a Pasadena public swimming pool’s exclusion of Blacks. Later on it was revealed that there was no evidence he was a commie when he was in the US. Thanks to McCarthy era policies, he was deported and later became one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op-ed from (Asian-American) professors at University of Maryland and USC about why affirmative action is not hurting Asian-Americans

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2023-06-14/affirmative-action-supreme-court-harvard-case-asian-americans

(cross-posted to the other Affirmative Action thread)

+1

Excellent article from Asian scholars. Dispels much of the nonsense spouted by DCUM trolls.

As if a handful of Asian professors speak for the entire Asian community. Laughable.

You apparently didn't read the article.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the solution.

Set a filter with X GPA and Y SAT scores. Throw all people who make it into the pool and use a random computer algorithm to pick people.

Totally the fairest way to choose. All of the extraneous stuff is nonsense. Schools should decide where they want to set the bar for quality, then have a completely race agnostic system for selection. Drawing straws is fair after the cutoff is met.

Then you just deal with an overcrowded CS/ENG dept and nobody in the English dept? So much more does (and should ) go into selecting a freshman class

It really doesn't take a slide ruler or advanced calculus to figure this out.

Fill out application with random assigned number that kids your name and identity. Select top 3 choices for major. Input GPA/SAT. Done.

No fluff. No legacies. No identities. Randomly pick people who meet a cutoff for GPA/SAT. You can include parameters for random selection based on major choice and limits for capacity.

Students get accept or reject letter stating which majors they're admitted to. This is a minor problem.

That is ridiculous.

They really need to just apply to European schools (or many asian countries as well) who you take a test, score high enough you get in

Maybe, that’s why foreign schools are now ranked higher than US universities in technical fields like engineering. They’re admitting the best and brightest abroad and not based on flimsy ID baskets.

True. Look at US News best global engineering school rankings. Even scarier is the fact that many of China’s engineering schools in the world’s T25 or T50 don’t even belong to their Ministry of Education—they belong to their Ministry of Defense. Including world’s #5, Harbin, which is ranked just below world’s #4, MIT. It’s a military technical university.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-global-universities/engineering

Yup.

Americans are oblivious to how fast they're falling behind in technical fields.

I wouldn’t say that we are falling behind fast, but China’s rise is a huge concern. I read a few things about their history of nuclear and missile programs. Not long ago (a few decades ago) the majority of that nation was poor uneducated peasants. But they did have a few brilliant students who studied in the US and (to a lesser extent) Europe. The founder of their missile and space program was an MIT Ph.D. and CalTech professor. The father of their atomic bomb was a Purdue Boilermaker, helped by some Michigan Wolverines. (Wonder if there was a Big Ten rivalry in their nuclear and missile research facilities.) A CalTech Ph.D. and cofounder of Cornell’s aeronautical engineering (along with William Sears) (now part of Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering Dept) also contributed greatly to their weapons programs. Allegedly he died in a plane crash in China—carrying hydrogen bomb design documents. Just want to say that we are in a life-or-death struggle for technological supremacy. The competition for technological supremacy is fiercer than ever in human history. Does AA/DEI help or hurt us in maintaining technological supremacy? Different people may have different opinions, but that’s a question we must answer.

Do we think certain groups of people will help us maintain technological superiority?

Yes because the URM from the poorest area of Chicago might just be the next greatest nuclear physicist. Even if they are not, if MIT thinks they are a good addition to the class of 2027, then I think they will go far in life.

Oh, was that not what you meant by "certain groups of people"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the solution.

Set a filter with X GPA and Y SAT scores. Throw all people who make it into the pool and use a random computer algorithm to pick people.

Totally the fairest way to choose. All of the extraneous stuff is nonsense. Schools should decide where they want to set the bar for quality, then have a completely race agnostic system for selection. Drawing straws is fair after the cutoff is met.

Then you just deal with an overcrowded CS/ENG dept and nobody in the English dept? So much more does (and should ) go into selecting a freshman class

It really doesn't take a slide ruler or advanced calculus to figure this out.

Fill out application with random assigned number that kids your name and identity. Select top 3 choices for major. Input GPA/SAT. Done.

No fluff. No legacies. No identities. Randomly pick people who meet a cutoff for GPA/SAT. You can include parameters for random selection based on major choice and limits for capacity.

Students get accept or reject letter stating which majors they're admitted to. This is a minor problem.

That is ridiculous.

They really need to just apply to European schools (or many asian countries as well) who you take a test, score high enough you get in

Maybe, that’s why foreign schools are now ranked higher than US universities in technical fields like engineering. They’re admitting the best and brightest abroad and not based on flimsy ID baskets.

True. Look at US News best global engineering school rankings. Even scarier is the fact that many of China’s engineering schools in the world’s T25 or T50 don’t even belong to their Ministry of Education—they belong to their Ministry of Defense. Including world’s #5, Harbin, which is ranked just below world’s #4, MIT. It’s a military technical university.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-global-universities/engineering

Yup.

Americans are oblivious to how fast they're falling behind in technical fields.

I wouldn’t say that we are falling behind fast, but China’s rise is a huge concern. I read a few things about their history of nuclear and missile programs. Not long ago (a few decades ago) the majority of that nation was poor uneducated peasants. But they did have a few brilliant students who studied in the US and (to a lesser extent) Europe. The founder of their missile and space program was an MIT Ph.D. and CalTech professor. The father of their atomic bomb was a Purdue Boilermaker, helped by some Michigan Wolverines. (Wonder if there was a Big Ten rivalry in their nuclear and missile research facilities.) A CalTech Ph.D. and cofounder of Cornell’s aeronautical engineering (along with William Sears) (now part of Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering Dept) also contributed greatly to their weapons programs. Allegedly he died in a plane crash in China—carrying hydrogen bomb design documents. Just want to say that we are in a life-or-death struggle for technological supremacy. The competition for technological supremacy is fiercer than ever in human history. Does AA/DEI help or hurt us in maintaining technological supremacy? Different people may have different opinions, but that’s a question we must answer.

Do we think certain groups of people will help us maintain technological superiority?

That is exactly what they are saying - they can't make it in their country, so they are entitled to make it in this country, and they are entitled to take anyone else's place, because they know how to teach to the test, and Americans allegedly do not, so Americans must be inferior in Maths.

My, this is a very "Dictatorship" or "Communistic" thing to say. You do realize America is a Democracy?

Yes, America is a democracy. Do you realize that even deep blue California voters voted down AA, twice? If AA is put up for a democratic vote, it does not stand a chance in this country. Those elite college admins are NOT elected by the people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the solution.

Set a filter with X GPA and Y SAT scores. Throw all people who make it into the pool and use a random computer algorithm to pick people.

Totally the fairest way to choose. All of the extraneous stuff is nonsense. Schools should decide where they want to set the bar for quality, then have a completely race agnostic system for selection. Drawing straws is fair after the cutoff is met.

Then you just deal with an overcrowded CS/ENG dept and nobody in the English dept? So much more does (and should ) go into selecting a freshman class

It really doesn't take a slide ruler or advanced calculus to figure this out.

Fill out application with random assigned number that kids your name and identity. Select top 3 choices for major. Input GPA/SAT. Done.

No fluff. No legacies. No identities. Randomly pick people who meet a cutoff for GPA/SAT. You can include parameters for random selection based on major choice and limits for capacity.

Students get accept or reject letter stating which majors they're admitted to. This is a minor problem.

That is ridiculous.

They really need to just apply to European schools (or many asian countries as well) who you take a test, score high enough you get in

Maybe, that’s why foreign schools are now ranked higher than US universities in technical fields like engineering. They’re admitting the best and brightest abroad and not based on flimsy ID baskets.

True. Look at US News best global engineering school rankings. Even scarier is the fact that many of China’s engineering schools in the world’s T25 or T50 don’t even belong to their Ministry of Education—they belong to their Ministry of Defense. Including world’s #5, Harbin, which is ranked just below world’s #4, MIT. It’s a military technical university.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-global-universities/engineering

Yup.

Americans are oblivious to how fast they're falling behind in technical fields.

I wouldn’t say that we are falling behind fast, but China’s rise is a huge concern. I read a few things about their history of nuclear and missile programs. Not long ago (a few decades ago) the majority of that nation was poor uneducated peasants. But they did have a few brilliant students who studied in the US and (to a lesser extent) Europe. The founder of their missile and space program was an MIT Ph.D. and CalTech professor. The father of their atomic bomb was a Purdue Boilermaker, helped by some Michigan Wolverines. (Wonder if there was a Big Ten rivalry in their nuclear and missile research facilities.) A CalTech Ph.D. and cofounder of Cornell’s aeronautical engineering (along with William Sears) (now part of Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering Dept) also contributed greatly to their weapons programs. Allegedly he died in a plane crash in China—carrying hydrogen bomb design documents. Just want to say that we are in a life-or-death struggle for technological supremacy. The competition for technological supremacy is fiercer than ever in human history. Does AA/DEI help or hurt us in maintaining technological supremacy? Different people may have different opinions, but that’s a question we must answer.

Do we think certain groups of people will help us maintain technological superiority?

That is exactly what they are saying - they can't make it in their country, so they are entitled to make it in this country, and they are entitled to take anyone else's place, because they know how to teach to the test, and Americans allegedly do not, so Americans must be inferior in Maths.

My, this is a very "Dictatorship" or "Communistic" thing to say. You do realize America is a Democracy?

Yes, America is a democracy. Do you realize that even deep blue California voters voted down AA, twice? If AA is put up for a democratic vote, it does not stand a chance in this country. Those elite college admins are NOT elected by the people.

Happy to put AA up for a vote if we also put gun control and a host of other issues up for a vote.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the solution.

Set a filter with X GPA and Y SAT scores. Throw all people who make it into the pool and use a random computer algorithm to pick people.

Totally the fairest way to choose. All of the extraneous stuff is nonsense. Schools should decide where they want to set the bar for quality, then have a completely race agnostic system for selection. Drawing straws is fair after the cutoff is met.

Then you just deal with an overcrowded CS/ENG dept and nobody in the English dept? So much more does (and should ) go into selecting a freshman class

It really doesn't take a slide ruler or advanced calculus to figure this out.

Fill out application with random assigned number that kids your name and identity. Select top 3 choices for major. Input GPA/SAT. Done.

No fluff. No legacies. No identities. Randomly pick people who meet a cutoff for GPA/SAT. You can include parameters for random selection based on major choice and limits for capacity.

Students get accept or reject letter stating which majors they're admitted to. This is a minor problem.

DP here. Here is the issue. I will spell it out for you. Certain cheating groups ruined the SAT for the majority, who were not cheating. You may want to deny it, or pretend it did not happen - but it did, and now admissions is changed forever. Nothing you say or do, including pointing at other groups, will change that.

Congratulations?

Lol. 'Certain cheating groups ruined the SAT'.

Just say it - you mean Asians. No need to hide behind your racist dog whistle that stereotypes Asians as cheaters. No way possibly that Asians could be that much higher performing than all other racial and ethnic groups - it must be because they cheated or are cheating. What a horrific stereotype.

Your racism and anti-asian hate is showing. Just wear it on your sleeve at this point.

You are not familiar with that particular cheating issue? Look it up! Why am I “racist” for knowing about it? It’s no secret!

There it is folks. Asians cheat.

Wow, what a shocking and vulgar display of racist stereotype. That's like saying black men commit crime, look at the stats!

You hate Asian people, we get it.

The only thing that was "shocking" and "vulgar" was how the cheating happened. Stop trying to stir the pot.

DP. Whites are genocidal. Look it up. There you are if you know the history.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the solution.

Set a filter with X GPA and Y SAT scores. Throw all people who make it into the pool and use a random computer algorithm to pick people.

Totally the fairest way to choose. All of the extraneous stuff is nonsense. Schools should decide where they want to set the bar for quality, then have a completely race agnostic system for selection. Drawing straws is fair after the cutoff is met.

Then you just deal with an overcrowded CS/ENG dept and nobody in the English dept? So much more does (and should ) go into selecting a freshman class

It really doesn't take a slide ruler or advanced calculus to figure this out.

Fill out application with random assigned number that kids your name and identity. Select top 3 choices for major. Input GPA/SAT. Done.

No fluff. No legacies. No identities. Randomly pick people who meet a cutoff for GPA/SAT. You can include parameters for random selection based on major choice and limits for capacity.

Students get accept or reject letter stating which majors they're admitted to. This is a minor problem.

That is ridiculous.

They really need to just apply to European schools (or many asian countries as well) who you take a test, score high enough you get in

Maybe, that’s why foreign schools are now ranked higher than US universities in technical fields like engineering. They’re admitting the best and brightest abroad and not based on flimsy ID baskets.

True. Look at US News best global engineering school rankings. Even scarier is the fact that many of China’s engineering schools in the world’s T25 or T50 don’t even belong to their Ministry of Education—they belong to their Ministry of Defense. Including world’s #5, Harbin, which is ranked just below world’s #4, MIT. It’s a military technical university.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-global-universities/engineering

Yup.

Americans are oblivious to how fast they're falling behind in technical fields.

I wouldn’t say that we are falling behind fast, but China’s rise is a huge concern. I read a few things about their history of nuclear and missile programs. Not long ago (a few decades ago) the majority of that nation was poor uneducated peasants. But they did have a few brilliant students who studied in the US and (to a lesser extent) Europe. The founder of their missile and space program was an MIT Ph.D. and CalTech professor. The father of their atomic bomb was a Purdue Boilermaker, helped by some Michigan Wolverines. (Wonder if there was a Big Ten rivalry in their nuclear and missile research facilities.) A CalTech Ph.D. and cofounder of Cornell’s aeronautical engineering (along with William Sears) (now part of Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering Dept) also contributed greatly to their weapons programs. Allegedly he died in a plane crash in China—carrying hydrogen bomb design documents. Just want to say that we are in a life-or-death struggle for technological supremacy. The competition for technological supremacy is fiercer than ever in human history. Does AA/DEI help or hurt us in maintaining technological supremacy? Different people may have different opinions, but that’s a question we must answer.

Do we think certain groups of people will help us maintain technological superiority?

That is exactly what they are saying - they can't make it in their country, so they are entitled to make it in this country, and they are entitled to take anyone else's place, because they know how to teach to the test, and Americans allegedly do not, so Americans must be inferior in Maths.

My, this is a very "Dictatorship" or "Communistic" thing to say. You do realize America is a Democracy?

Yes, America is a democracy. Do you realize that even deep blue California voters voted down AA, twice? If AA is put up for a democratic vote, it does not stand a chance in this country. Those elite college admins are NOT elected by the people.

Happy to put AA up for a vote if we also put gun control and a host of other issues up for a vote.

Good luck to you. Don’t forget that the majority of USA is still White. Also, in 2020 more Hispanic voters in CA voted no than yes on the ballot initiative to restore AA.

[Anonymous]

https://news.yahoo.com/failed-affirmative-action-campaign-shook-152236410.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the solution.

Set a filter with X GPA and Y SAT scores. Throw all people who make it into the pool and use a random computer algorithm to pick people.

Totally the fairest way to choose. All of the extraneous stuff is nonsense. Schools should decide where they want to set the bar for quality, then have a completely race agnostic system for selection. Drawing straws is fair after the cutoff is met.

Then you just deal with an overcrowded CS/ENG dept and nobody in the English dept? So much more does (and should ) go into selecting a freshman class

It really doesn't take a slide ruler or advanced calculus to figure this out.

Fill out application with random assigned number that kids your name and identity. Select top 3 choices for major. Input GPA/SAT. Done.

No fluff. No legacies. No identities. Randomly pick people who meet a cutoff for GPA/SAT. You can include parameters for random selection based on major choice and limits for capacity.

Students get accept or reject letter stating which majors they're admitted to. This is a minor problem.

That is ridiculous.

They really need to just apply to European schools (or many asian countries as well) who you take a test, score high enough you get in

Maybe, that’s why foreign schools are now ranked higher than US universities in technical fields like engineering. They’re admitting the best and brightest abroad and not based on flimsy ID baskets.

True. Look at US News best global engineering school rankings. Even scarier is the fact that many of China’s engineering schools in the world’s T25 or T50 don’t even belong to their Ministry of Education—they belong to their Ministry of Defense. Including world’s #5, Harbin, which is ranked just below world’s #4, MIT. It’s a military technical university.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-global-universities/engineering

Yup.

Americans are oblivious to how fast they're falling behind in technical fields.

I wouldn’t say that we are falling behind fast, but China’s rise is a huge concern. I read a few things about their history of nuclear and missile programs. Not long ago (a few decades ago) the majority of that nation was poor uneducated peasants. But they did have a few brilliant students who studied in the US and (to a lesser extent) Europe. The founder of their missile and space program was an MIT Ph.D. and CalTech professor. The father of their atomic bomb was a Purdue Boilermaker, helped by some Michigan Wolverines. (Wonder if there was a Big Ten rivalry in their nuclear and missile research facilities.) A CalTech Ph.D. and cofounder of Cornell’s aeronautical engineering (along with William Sears) (now part of Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering Dept) also contributed greatly to their weapons programs. Allegedly he died in a plane crash in China—carrying hydrogen bomb design documents. Just want to say that we are in a life-or-death struggle for technological supremacy. The competition for technological supremacy is fiercer than ever in human history. Does AA/DEI help or hurt us in maintaining technological supremacy? Different people may have different opinions, but that’s a question we must answer.

Do we think certain groups of people will help us maintain technological superiority?

That is exactly what they are saying - they can't make it in their country, so they are entitled to make it in this country, and they are entitled to take anyone else's place, because they know how to teach to the test, and Americans allegedly do not, so Americans must be inferior in Maths.

My, this is a very "Dictatorship" or "Communistic" thing to say. You do realize America is a Democracy?

Yes, America is a democracy. Do you realize that even deep blue California voters voted down AA, twice? If AA is put up for a democratic vote, it does not stand a chance in this country. Those elite college admins are NOT elected by the people.

Happy to put AA up for a vote if we also put gun control and a host of other issues up for a vote.

You just proved that you are not pro-democracy. You are pro-dictatorship by the elites.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the solution.

Set a filter with X GPA and Y SAT scores. Throw all people who make it into the pool and use a random computer algorithm to pick people.

Totally the fairest way to choose. All of the extraneous stuff is nonsense. Schools should decide where they want to set the bar for quality, then have a completely race agnostic system for selection. Drawing straws is fair after the cutoff is met.

Then you just deal with an overcrowded CS/ENG dept and nobody in the English dept? So much more does (and should ) go into selecting a freshman class

It really doesn't take a slide ruler or advanced calculus to figure this out.

Fill out application with random assigned number that kids your name and identity. Select top 3 choices for major. Input GPA/SAT. Done.

No fluff. No legacies. No identities. Randomly pick people who meet a cutoff for GPA/SAT. You can include parameters for random selection based on major choice and limits for capacity.

Students get accept or reject letter stating which majors they're admitted to. This is a minor problem.

That is ridiculous.

They really need to just apply to European schools (or many asian countries as well) who you take a test, score high enough you get in

Maybe, that’s why foreign schools are now ranked higher than US universities in technical fields like engineering. They’re admitting the best and brightest abroad and not based on flimsy ID baskets.

True. Look at US News best global engineering school rankings. Even scarier is the fact that many of China’s engineering schools in the world’s T25 or T50 don’t even belong to their Ministry of Education—they belong to their Ministry of Defense. Including world’s #5, Harbin, which is ranked just below world’s #4, MIT. It’s a military technical university.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-global-universities/engineering

Yup.

Americans are oblivious to how fast they're falling behind in technical fields.

I wouldn’t say that we are falling behind fast, but China’s rise is a huge concern. I read a few things about their history of nuclear and missile programs. Not long ago (a few decades ago) the majority of that nation was poor uneducated peasants. But they did have a few brilliant students who studied in the US and (to a lesser extent) Europe. The founder of their missile and space program was an MIT Ph.D. and CalTech professor. The father of their atomic bomb was a Purdue Boilermaker, helped by some Michigan Wolverines. (Wonder if there was a Big Ten rivalry in their nuclear and missile research facilities.) A CalTech Ph.D. and cofounder of Cornell’s aeronautical engineering (along with William Sears) (now part of Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering Dept) also contributed greatly to their weapons programs. Allegedly he died in a plane crash in China—carrying hydrogen bomb design documents. Just want to say that we are in a life-or-death struggle for technological supremacy. The competition for technological supremacy is fiercer than ever in human history. Does AA/DEI help or hurt us in maintaining technological supremacy? Different people may have different opinions, but that’s a question we must answer.

Do we think certain groups of people will help us maintain technological superiority?

That is exactly what they are saying - they can't make it in their country, so they are entitled to make it in this country, and they are entitled to take anyone else's place, because they know how to teach to the test, and Americans allegedly do not, so Americans must be inferior in Maths.

My, this is a very "Dictatorship" or "Communistic" thing to say. You do realize America is a Democracy?

DP. I think they learned from America’s history. Those who couldn’t make it in the UK, France, and Spain came to the new world and not only took the land on which the natives were living, but also practically wiped out the natives from the face of the earth. At least the Chinese you are talking about are peaceful and have no intention of eliminating any of us. Rest assured.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the solution.

Set a filter with X GPA and Y SAT scores. Throw all people who make it into the pool and use a random computer algorithm to pick people.

Totally the fairest way to choose. All of the extraneous stuff is nonsense. Schools should decide where they want to set the bar for quality, then have a completely race agnostic system for selection. Drawing straws is fair after the cutoff is met.

Then you just deal with an overcrowded CS/ENG dept and nobody in the English dept? So much more does (and should ) go into selecting a freshman class

It really doesn't take a slide ruler or advanced calculus to figure this out.

Fill out application with random assigned number that kids your name and identity. Select top 3 choices for major. Input GPA/SAT. Done.

No fluff. No legacies. No identities. Randomly pick people who meet a cutoff for GPA/SAT. You can include parameters for random selection based on major choice and limits for capacity.

Students get accept or reject letter stating which majors they're admitted to. This is a minor problem.

That is ridiculous.

They really need to just apply to European schools (or many asian countries as well) who you take a test, score high enough you get in

Maybe, that’s why foreign schools are now ranked higher than US universities in technical fields like engineering. They’re admitting the best and brightest abroad and not based on flimsy ID baskets.

True. Look at US News best global engineering school rankings. Even scarier is the fact that many of China’s engineering schools in the world’s T25 or T50 don’t even belong to their Ministry of Education—they belong to their Ministry of Defense. Including world’s #5, Harbin, which is ranked just below world’s #4, MIT. It’s a military technical university.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-global-universities/engineering

Yup.

Americans are oblivious to how fast they're falling behind in technical fields.

I wouldn’t say that we are falling behind fast, but China’s rise is a huge concern. I read a few things about their history of nuclear and missile programs. Not long ago (a few decades ago) the majority of that nation was poor uneducated peasants. But they did have a few brilliant students who studied in the US and (to a lesser extent) Europe. The founder of their missile and space program was an MIT Ph.D. and CalTech professor. The father of their atomic bomb was a Purdue Boilermaker, helped by some Michigan Wolverines. (Wonder if there was a Big Ten rivalry in their nuclear and missile research facilities.) A CalTech Ph.D. and cofounder of Cornell’s aeronautical engineering (along with William Sears) (now part of Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering Dept) also contributed greatly to their weapons programs. Allegedly he died in a plane crash in China—carrying hydrogen bomb design documents. Just want to say that we are in a life-or-death struggle for technological supremacy. The competition for technological supremacy is fiercer than ever in human history. Does AA/DEI help or hurt us in maintaining technological supremacy? Different people may have different opinions, but that’s a question we must answer.

Do we think certain groups of people will help us maintain technological superiority?

That is exactly what they are saying - they can't make it in their country, so they are entitled to make it in this country, and they are entitled to take anyone else's place, because they know how to teach to the test, and Americans allegedly do not, so Americans must be inferior in Maths.

My, this is a very "Dictatorship" or "Communistic" thing to say. You do realize America is a Democracy?

Yes, America is a democracy. Do you realize that even deep blue California voters voted down AA, twice? If AA is put up for a democratic vote, it does not stand a chance in this country. Those elite college admins are NOT elected by the people.

However, if those "elite college admins" feel it is important to increase the number of blacks, latinos and other minorities on their campus, they will find a way to do that. Just like if they believe their is value in increasing the number of low income students on campus they will make it happen.

We do not get to vote on how private universities are run (or public really) and that is a good thing, given that only 50% of 25-60yo have even graduated college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the solution.

Set a filter with X GPA and Y SAT scores. Throw all people who make it into the pool and use a random computer algorithm to pick people.

Totally the fairest way to choose. All of the extraneous stuff is nonsense. Schools should decide where they want to set the bar for quality, then have a completely race agnostic system for selection. Drawing straws is fair after the cutoff is met.

Then you just deal with an overcrowded CS/ENG dept and nobody in the English dept? So much more does (and should ) go into selecting a freshman class

It really doesn't take a slide ruler or advanced calculus to figure this out.

Fill out application with random assigned number that kids your name and identity. Select top 3 choices for major. Input GPA/SAT. Done.

No fluff. No legacies. No identities. Randomly pick people who meet a cutoff for GPA/SAT. You can include parameters for random selection based on major choice and limits for capacity.

Students get accept or reject letter stating which majors they're admitted to. This is a minor problem.

That is ridiculous.

They really need to just apply to European schools (or many asian countries as well) who you take a test, score high enough you get in

Maybe, that’s why foreign schools are now ranked higher than US universities in technical fields like engineering. They’re admitting the best and brightest abroad and not based on flimsy ID baskets.

True. Look at US News best global engineering school rankings. Even scarier is the fact that many of China’s engineering schools in the world’s T25 or T50 don’t even belong to their Ministry of Education—they belong to their Ministry of Defense. Including world’s #5, Harbin, which is ranked just below world’s #4, MIT. It’s a military technical university.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-global-universities/engineering

Yup.

Americans are oblivious to how fast they're falling behind in technical fields.

I wouldn’t say that we are falling behind fast, but China’s rise is a huge concern. I read a few things about their history of nuclear and missile programs. Not long ago (a few decades ago) the majority of that nation was poor uneducated peasants. But they did have a few brilliant students who studied in the US and (to a lesser extent) Europe. The founder of their missile and space program was an MIT Ph.D. and CalTech professor. The father of their atomic bomb was a Purdue Boilermaker, helped by some Michigan Wolverines. (Wonder if there was a Big Ten rivalry in their nuclear and missile research facilities.) A CalTech Ph.D. and cofounder of Cornell’s aeronautical engineering (along with William Sears) (now part of Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering Dept) also contributed greatly to their weapons programs. Allegedly he died in a plane crash in China—carrying hydrogen bomb design documents. Just want to say that we are in a life-or-death struggle for technological supremacy. The competition for technological supremacy is fiercer than ever in human history. Does AA/DEI help or hurt us in maintaining technological supremacy? Different people may have different opinions, but that’s a question we must answer.

Do we think certain groups of people will help us maintain technological superiority?

That is exactly what they are saying - they can't make it in their country, so they are entitled to make it in this country, and they are entitled to take anyone else's place, because they know how to teach to the test, and Americans allegedly do not, so Americans must be inferior in Maths.

My, this is a very "Dictatorship" or "Communistic" thing to say. You do realize America is a Democracy?

Yes, America is a democracy. Do you realize that even deep blue California voters voted down AA, twice? If AA is put up for a democratic vote, it does not stand a chance in this country. Those elite college admins are NOT elected by the people.

However, if those "elite college admins" feel it is important to increase the number of blacks, latinos and other minorities on their campus, they will find a way to do that. Just like if they believe their is value in increasing the number of low income students on campus they will make it happen.

We do not get to vote on how private universities are run (or public really) and that is a good thing, given that only 50% of 25-60yo have even graduated college.

IF private universities don’t take a penny of taxpayers money then they can racially discriminate however they want. But they do take taxpayers money.

[Anonymous]

If those Ivys have a spine, do what those Christian universities do. Don’t take a penny of government money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the solution.

Set a filter with X GPA and Y SAT scores. Throw all people who make it into the pool and use a random computer algorithm to pick people.

Totally the fairest way to choose. All of the extraneous stuff is nonsense. Schools should decide where they want to set the bar for quality, then have a completely race agnostic system for selection. Drawing straws is fair after the cutoff is met.

Then you just deal with an overcrowded CS/ENG dept and nobody in the English dept? So much more does (and should ) go into selecting a freshman class

It really doesn't take a slide ruler or advanced calculus to figure this out.

Fill out application with random assigned number that kids your name and identity. Select top 3 choices for major. Input GPA/SAT. Done.

No fluff. No legacies. No identities. Randomly pick people who meet a cutoff for GPA/SAT. You can include parameters for random selection based on major choice and limits for capacity.

Students get accept or reject letter stating which majors they're admitted to. This is a minor problem.

That is ridiculous.

They really need to just apply to European schools (or many asian countries as well) who you take a test, score high enough you get in

Maybe, that’s why foreign schools are now ranked higher than US universities in technical fields like engineering. They’re admitting the best and brightest abroad and not based on flimsy ID baskets.

True. Look at US News best global engineering school rankings. Even scarier is the fact that many of China’s engineering schools in the world’s T25 or T50 don’t even belong to their Ministry of Education—they belong to their Ministry of Defense. Including world’s #5, Harbin, which is ranked just below world’s #4, MIT. It’s a military technical university.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-global-universities/engineering

Yup.

Americans are oblivious to how fast they're falling behind in technical fields.

I wouldn’t say that we are falling behind fast, but China’s rise is a huge concern. I read a few things about their history of nuclear and missile programs. Not long ago (a few decades ago) the majority of that nation was poor uneducated peasants. But they did have a few brilliant students who studied in the US and (to a lesser extent) Europe. The founder of their missile and space program was an MIT Ph.D. and CalTech professor. The father of their atomic bomb was a Purdue Boilermaker, helped by some Michigan Wolverines. (Wonder if there was a Big Ten rivalry in their nuclear and missile research facilities.) A CalTech Ph.D. and cofounder of Cornell’s aeronautical engineering (along with William Sears) (now part of Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering Dept) also contributed greatly to their weapons programs. Allegedly he died in a plane crash in China—carrying hydrogen bomb design documents. Just want to say that we are in a life-or-death struggle for technological supremacy. The competition for technological supremacy is fiercer than ever in human history. Does AA/DEI help or hurt us in maintaining technological supremacy? Different people may have different opinions, but that’s a question we must answer.

Do we think certain groups of people will help us maintain technological superiority?

That is exactly what they are saying - they can't make it in their country, so they are entitled to make it in this country, and they are entitled to take anyone else's place, because they know how to teach to the test, and Americans allegedly do not, so Americans must be inferior in Maths.

My, this is a very "Dictatorship" or "Communistic" thing to say. You do realize America is a Democracy?

Yes, America is a democracy. Do you realize that even deep blue California voters voted down AA, twice? If AA is put up for a democratic vote, it does not stand a chance in this country. Those elite college admins are NOT elected by the people.

However, if those "elite college admins" feel it is important to increase the number of blacks, latinos and other minorities on their campus, they will find a way to do that. Just like if they believe their is value in increasing the number of low income students on campus they will make it happen.

We do not get to vote on how private universities are run (or public really) and that is a good thing, given that only 50% of 25-60yo have even graduated college.

IF private universities don’t take a penny of taxpayers money then they can racially discriminate however they want. But they do take taxpayers money.

My tax dollars go to plenty of things that I do not get a direct say in. Yet I still pay my taxes.

The research that private universities do with the grants they get end up "costing the country far less than if we had to hire people to do the research". So the argument of "take away their money" does not really go very far. Undergrads and graduate students are extremely cheap labor for the extensive research that happens. Govt could not afford to pay for the research if it was all done in public firms/non-universities.

The amount of energy people put into complaining their kid wont or didn't get into a highly selective university is astounding. Get over it, move on and support your kid at wherever they end up. Fact will remain, just because you got great test scores and a 4.0 gpa and 10 APs that does NOT entitle you to an elite education. There are more qualified candidates than spots, someone will get left out. And the definition of "qualified" is different at each school, as they balance majors, M/F, demographics, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the solution.

Set a filter with X GPA and Y SAT scores. Throw all people who make it into the pool and use a random computer algorithm to pick people.

Totally the fairest way to choose. All of the extraneous stuff is nonsense. Schools should decide where they want to set the bar for quality, then have a completely race agnostic system for selection. Drawing straws is fair after the cutoff is met.

Then you just deal with an overcrowded CS/ENG dept and nobody in the English dept? So much more does (and should ) go into selecting a freshman class

It really doesn't take a slide ruler or advanced calculus to figure this out.

Fill out application with random assigned number that kids your name and identity. Select top 3 choices for major. Input GPA/SAT. Done.

No fluff. No legacies. No identities. Randomly pick people who meet a cutoff for GPA/SAT. You can include parameters for random selection based on major choice and limits for capacity.

Students get accept or reject letter stating which majors they're admitted to. This is a minor problem.

That is ridiculous.

They really need to just apply to European schools (or many asian countries as well) who you take a test, score high enough you get in

Maybe, that’s why foreign schools are now ranked higher than US universities in technical fields like engineering. They’re admitting the best and brightest abroad and not based on flimsy ID baskets.

True. Look at US News best global engineering school rankings. Even scarier is the fact that many of China’s engineering schools in the world’s T25 or T50 don’t even belong to their Ministry of Education—they belong to their Ministry of Defense. Including world’s #5, Harbin, which is ranked just below world’s #4, MIT. It’s a military technical university.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-global-universities/engineering

Yup.

Americans are oblivious to how fast they're falling behind in technical fields.

I wouldn’t say that we are falling behind fast, but China’s rise is a huge concern. I read a few things about their history of nuclear and missile programs. Not long ago (a few decades ago) the majority of that nation was poor uneducated peasants. But they did have a few brilliant students who studied in the US and (to a lesser extent) Europe. The founder of their missile and space program was an MIT Ph.D. and CalTech professor. The father of their atomic bomb was a Purdue Boilermaker, helped by some Michigan Wolverines. (Wonder if there was a Big Ten rivalry in their nuclear and missile research facilities.) A CalTech Ph.D. and cofounder of Cornell’s aeronautical engineering (along with William Sears) (now part of Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering Dept) also contributed greatly to their weapons programs. Allegedly he died in a plane crash in China—carrying hydrogen bomb design documents. Just want to say that we are in a life-or-death struggle for technological supremacy. The competition for technological supremacy is fiercer than ever in human history. Does AA/DEI help or hurt us in maintaining technological supremacy? Different people may have different opinions, but that’s a question we must answer.

Do we think certain groups of people will help us maintain technological superiority?

That is exactly what they are saying - they can't make it in their country, so they are entitled to make it in this country, and they are entitled to take anyone else's place, because they know how to teach to the test, and Americans allegedly do not, so Americans must be inferior in Maths.

My, this is a very "Dictatorship" or "Communistic" thing to say. You do realize America is a Democracy?

Yes, America is a democracy. Do you realize that even deep blue California voters voted down AA, twice? If AA is put up for a democratic vote, it does not stand a chance in this country. Those elite college admins are NOT elected by the people.

However, if those "elite college admins" feel it is important to increase the number of blacks, latinos and other minorities on their campus, they will find a way to do that. Just like if they believe their is value in increasing the number of low income students on campus they will make it happen.

We do not get to vote on how private universities are run (or public really) and that is a good thing, given that only 50% of 25-60yo have even graduated college.

IF private universities don’t take a penny of taxpayers money then they can racially discriminate however they want. But they do take taxpayers money.

My tax dollars go to plenty of things that I do not get a direct say in. Yet I still pay my taxes.

The research that private universities do with the grants they get end up "costing the country far less than if we had to hire people to do the research". So the argument of "take away their money" does not really go very far. Undergrads and graduate students are extremely cheap labor for the extensive research that happens. Govt could not afford to pay for the research if it was all done in public firms/non-universities.

The amount of energy people put into complaining their kid wont or didn't get into a highly selective university is astounding. Get over it, move on and support your kid at wherever they end up. Fact will remain, just because you got great test scores and a 4.0 gpa and 10 APs that does NOT entitle you to an elite education. There are more qualified candidates than spots, someone will get left out. And the definition of "qualified" is different at each school, as they balance majors, M/F, demographics, etc.

You are not entitled to an elite education because of the color of your skin.