Succession - Season 4

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Random tidbit I just read: the shirt Shiv is wearing when Dr. Sharon calls with test results is a University of Minnesota t shirt. Hence since Tom is from Minneapolis it is probably an old shirt of Tom's.

Interesting.

I thought he was "the kid from St Paul"

Twin Cities - same thing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Random tidbit I just read: the shirt Shiv is wearing when Dr. Sharon calls with test results is a University of Minnesota t shirt. Hence since Tom is from Minneapolis it is probably an old shirt of Tom's.

Interesting.

Could be an intentional effort to tie her to Tom in that moment. Could also be that she's vomiting constantly and doesn't want to get it on something she cares about, so grabbed an old shirt of Tom's she hates instead

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think he said “Princess” but was referring to Kendall. That’s how I read it, as a misogynistic derogatory comment. Mostly because I don’t see them having the balls to erase and I don’t see them being able to erase well enough. But maybe if it was light they could, yeah.

I just don’t see they they’d have the level of surprise and alarm that they had , if it just said Kendall. Like how is that a surprise? They knew he intended for Kendall to take over for a long, long time so it would make sense there would be a paper in there with his name, especially undated. And he is not some unknown wild card, AND he wants the deal to go through, so while the old guard might not like seeing his name there I just don’t buy the level of panic that Frank and Karl had, if the paper just said Kendall.

Agreed, plus the seem to acquiesce pretty well when Kendall and Roman step forward to sell themselves as the team to take over. Like they are probably still annoyed, but we don't see them scrambling like before.

I also think it's relevant that Frank found the piece paper and was alerting the others to it. Frank is pretty close to Kendall. He's Ken's godfather and we've seen him reaching out to Ken in kindness more than once. And Frank is NOT one of the people vying for the CEO gig -- we see Gerri and Karl arguing over it, but Frank mostly just wants to protect his own position. From his perspective, Kendall as CEO is pretty good for him because it likely secures his current position and means he'll have a decent amount of power/sway moving forward.

I think whatever was on the paper when he found it was a real "oh f**k" issue for him, and the stuff with Kendall and his name being underlined or crossed out wouldn't provoke that response from Frank, specifically. I think it's got to be something they removed from the paper before showing it to the kids, something that would really stir the pot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Karl: I mean could it, might it just go away? I mean it might get lost. I hope it doesn’t, but what if your hand goes a little wobbly, and a draft takes it away, and it gets flushed down a toilet by mistake? I’m kidding, of course.

Frank: Oh, sure. You’re speculating in a comic mode.

Karl: In a humorous vein. We’re not gonna let that little princess screw things up, right, Frank? Gerri’s gonna block me. I want out. I want my f*ckin’ package.
I am halfway in on a Greek island with my brother in law.

Gerri: Say, what’s up, boys?

Sounds like they’re talking about Gerri.

Gerri is hardly a princess. It was Shiv.

That doesn't make sense, though. Why would they refer to her, and not Kendall or Roman? Why single her out?

Karl said princes, not princess.

So you're saying he said "That little princes isn't going to screw this up for me"? Was he having a stroke while he said it? And the paper doesn't even mention Roman so why is Karl jumping to the conclusion that it implicates him? The only reason it winds up being Kendall and Roman as co-CEOs is because Kendall makes a deal with Roman in order to avoid a big fight over it, in the same way he makes a deal with Stewie. But the paper only mentions Kendall.

He said princess, singular, not princes, plural.

DP. But I thought he said “that little prince (singular) isn’t going to screw this up” but the words prince and isn’t kind of run together so it sounds like princess.

[Anonymous]

I think Kerri’s piece of paper was just about money or her having a place to live. He would not have considered her for CEO. Consider how quickly he let the anchor thing die when she embarrassed herself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think he said “Princess” but was referring to Kendall. That’s how I read it, as a misogynistic derogatory comment. Mostly because I don’t see them having the balls to erase and I don’t see them being able to erase well enough. But maybe if it was light they could, yeah.

I just don’t see they they’d have the level of surprise and alarm that they had , if it just said Kendall. Like how is that a surprise? They knew he intended for Kendall to take over for a long, long time so it would make sense there would be a paper in there with his name, especially undated. And he is not some unknown wild card, AND he wants the deal to go through, so while the old guard might not like seeing his name there I just don’t buy the level of panic that Frank and Karl had, if the paper just said Kendall.

Agreed, plus the seem to acquiesce pretty well when Kendall and Roman step forward to sell themselves as the team to take over. Like they are probably still annoyed, but we don't see them scrambling like before.

I also think it's relevant that Frank found the piece paper and was alerting the others to it. Frank is pretty close to Kendall. He's Ken's godfather and we've seen him reaching out to Ken in kindness more than once. And Frank is NOT one of the people vying for the CEO gig -- we see Gerri and Karl arguing over it, but Frank mostly just wants to protect his own position. From his perspective, Kendall as CEO is pretty good for him because it likely secures his current position and means he'll have a decent amount of power/sway moving forward.

I think whatever was on the paper when he found it was a real "oh f**k" issue for him, and the stuff with Kendall and his name being underlined or crossed out wouldn't provoke that response from Frank, specifically. I think it's got to be something they removed from the paper before showing it to the kids, something that would really stir the pot.

I’m a pp in this thread speculating that the old guard switched out Keri for Greg and assuming nothing would blow up from that. I didn’t get any of this from my first watch but I really hope this is where they’re going!

[Anonymous]

The good thing is that if Shiv was on the piece of paper, I think the show will revisit it. If they never say anything about it, I think they were probably talking about Kendall and accidentally made it confusing.

[Anonymous]

I totally agree that the old guard acquiesced WAY too quickly to Kendall and Roman taking over, if what they’d seen on the paper to make them panic so much was “it is my wish that Kendall take over”. Like they were talking about throwing away the paper! And then they agreed within minutes, it seemed, to let Kendall take over when Kendall and Roman suggested it. There has to have been something else they saw that they got rid of.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The good thing is that if Shiv was on the piece of paper, I think the show will revisit it. If they never say anything about it, I think they were probably talking about Kendall and accidentally made it confusing.

I really don’t think the alternative to Kendall on the paper was Shiv — I think it was Keri.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The good thing is that if Shiv was on the piece of paper, I think the show will revisit it. If they never say anything about it, I think they were probably talking about Kendall and accidentally made it confusing.

I really don’t think the alternative to Kendall on the paper was Shiv — I think it was Keri.

How does Keri spell her name? Kerry Keri Kari Carrie etc there are so many possible ways. If it is Keri I can see them being able to change it to Greg…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The good thing is that if Shiv was on the piece of paper, I think the show will revisit it. If they never say anything about it, I think they were probably talking about Kendall and accidentally made it confusing.

I really don’t think the alternative to Kendall on the paper was Shiv — I think it was Keri.

How does Keri spell her name? Kerry Keri Kari Carrie etc there are so many possible ways. If it is Keri I can see them being able to change it to Greg…

It's Kerry

[Anonymous]

I rewatched the portion of the show where the old guard found out and paused on the paper. There was nothing extra penciled in up near the Kendall underline/cross out. And honestly it looked like at the bottom of the paper there were 4 notes, and like the last one said “Greg?”

It didn’t look like Keri or Kerry etc. So while I really was rooting for this interpretation, I don’t think it’s right and I think we’ve overanalyzed it past what really happened. Jmho

[Anonymous]

On rewatch, fwiw, I took away that Gerri was performing proper stewardship of the company. She kept Frank and the other guy from illegally destroying the paper, and informed the relevant kids of what it contained while basically stating the truth that it had no real legal power over what happens. She argued her own position but backed down about there not being paper showing she was going to because she legit didn't know. In general, Gerri is doing what she told Roman she was doing at the end of Season 2 -- trying to steer the company in the best direction for the shareholders. I admire her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:On rewatch, fwiw, I took away that Gerri was performing proper stewardship of the company. She kept Frank and the other guy from illegally destroying the paper, and informed the relevant kids of what it contained while basically stating the truth that it had no real legal power over what happens. She argued her own position but backed down about there not being paper showing she was going to because she legit didn't know. In general, Gerri is doing what she told Roman she was doing at the end of Season 2 -- trying to steer the company in the best direction for the shareholders. I admire her.

I think I agree with you. This show has never been a big “ooo gotcha!” twist show. Yes there are twists but nothing like we have been hypothesizing here haha.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I 100% thought that the death was a huge hoax by Logan - that he was testing his kids to see how they would react to his death and what they would say to him in those last minutes. I fully expected him to walk into the boat and make some awful, disparaging remarks to them, after humiliating them. Glad that didn’t happen - that would have just been too cruel.

I was especially moved by both Kendall and Tom in this episode. Tom was so kind to Shiv.

The dialogue is getting weaker and weaker - so many f*cks peppering the conversation. It’s beyond old and strikes me as lazy.

I found Tom fascinating in this episode because I think he genuinely felt for Shiv in that moment, but I also think his kindness was at least 30% him realizing that with Logan dead, Shiv is his only real lifeline. Without her, he’s all the way out.

And I love how there were thematic parallels between that situation and Connor/Willa, with Connor straight up asking Willa if she was just in it fir the money and her getting very honest that the money is absolutely a big part of it for her.

I think the dialogue was very f**k heavy in this episode because everyone was in shock and didn’t know what to say, and people get kind of dumb in that situation. It’s realistic— people don’t give eloquent speeches in this situation. They can’t really process their feelings fast enough.

PP here and I agree with 99% of your post. But the f*ck issue is in every.single.episode. It's almost as if they're told to ad lib and they use constant profanity as a crutch while they think of what to say. Either that or the writers are incredibly lazy.

What if the writers aren’t lazy but the kids just aren’t that smart and they can’t think of what to say? Shiv, Roman, Tom, Greg are all pretty inarticulate and sub curse words for original thoughts. I think it’s very intentional that the writers use curse words instead of anything else.

There are some hilarious dirty insults. Incredibly witty and fast paced.

https://www.sciencealert.com/swearing-is-a-sign-of-more-intelligence-not-less-say-scientists/amp

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/01/26/health/swearing-benefits-wellness/index.html

I have run in some highly intellectual, extremely wealthy circles and it’s an art form.

Dolts on dcum get their panties in a twist and mistake it for being classless. It couldn’t be further from the reality.

And I loved VEEP with Selena and Dan and Amy’s profanity Abe hilarious cut downs.

Well, it can be both classless and common to the upper classes at the same time. Let's not confuse money with taste, sensitivity, or manners.

+1. One thing the show nails is how Kendall dresses obnoxiously casually all the time because he doesn't feel he has to dress up for anything. He wears sweatshirts to the office. He wore a baseball cap to his brother's rehearsal dinner, where he barely acknowledged it was a rehearsal dinner and stayed for 20 minutes. He did bother to wear a suit to the wedding itself, but no tie and didn't button his shirt all the way. Yes, I get some of these are "fashion" choices, but the point is that he feels he can simply make a personal style choice no matter the venue or occasion because he's very rich and doesn't feel he has to conform to social norms. And sure, his sweatshirts and baseball caps likely cost more than many people's wedding gowns, but that doesn't magically make them more formal or respectful to others.

People made a big deal about Shiv's ponytail at the wedding but lots of very wealthy women dress kind of terribly or have sloppy hair or clothes. Again, they might spend a lot on it, but that doesn't mean it looks that way or that they feel like they have to conform to anyone's expectations.

The swearing is the same. These are people who are used to not having to play by the rules. Sometimes they choose to be sophisticated, but they don't have to -- they can say f**k all they want, dress down, treat people poorly, etc., and unlike for the rest of us, there are no consequences. None of them is getting fired for swearing or not following a dress code. They won't lose friends over it either, because their friends are all there because of the money, too. I mean, Willa married Connor while openly admitting the money was a major reason why (and let's get real, any affection she has for him was developed after latching onto him for the money).

The poor language and bad clothes are of a piece with their overall awful behavior. The whole point of this show is that these people do not have to play by the same rules as the rest of us. People who don't understand that are like the people who rooted for Tony Soprano and Walter White. The point just whooshing right over their simple minds.

What a strange, strange post - especially your last sentences. But I get that you think you're far sharper and more clever than everyone else.
DP

What is strange about it? This is a well-known phenomenon -- people who root for the anti-heroes in shows that show them at their worst. Lots of people absolutely rooted for Tony and Walter to get away with their criminal behavior (including murder), and plenty of people root for the people on Succession to successfully get away with their own bad behavior (including stuff like Kendall getting away with killing that kid in the car crash) or chuckle at stuff like Roman's rocket exploding or all the malfeasance/abuse that occurred in Waystar's cruise business. Being able to watch these shows and not forget your ethical compass, and be able to empathize with these people without actually rooting for them to successfully kill, swindle, exploit, etc., is not a sign of being sharper or more clever, but it is a sign of having more self-awareness and not being so easily swayed by a work of fiction.

OMG.

+1. Succession is a soap opera. Nothing more, nothing less. Thinking that this show puts you or anybody else at risk of being sucked into some anti-hero's moral compass is not what this is about. Relax and enjoy the ride.

+2