Travis and Taylor

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m in my late-ish forties and am late to TS fandom, but here is why I like her:
She isn’t trying to shift her perspective and art to be masculine in any way.
She doesn’t care if guys get it.
And by being her authentic self, plenty of men do get it! I think Travis may be one of those guys ( trying to steer back to topic 😀)
I came of age in the 90’s and this is really powerful for me, because some much of the art, music, humor, and aesthetic of the 90’s was male centered. Their thoughts wants and perspectives were the default.
I love her for this.

Huh. I thought of the 90s as turning toward a new wave of female representation. In the strong vocals, aesthetics, characters in TV and movies. And also in political representation. Maybe I saw it more as a surge toward rather than an arrival, you know? Or else you and I grew up in different media bubbles.

Yeah hard disagree. With few exceptions the female artists were packaged to be relatable to men. Specifically Gwen and Alanis.

Alanis? From what I remember there was little from her image that was targeted to men.

It wasn’t about sex appeal. It was anger, aggression, and the mosh pit.
She steered herself away eventually, but they pushed her hard at first.

I'm not trying to be a pain, but I don't understand. Alanis and Gwen had aggressive images to appeal to men?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people are loons.
She took bits and pieces and strong feelings and made something out of it.
She crafted songs and then wanted to play them for the world because she was proud of them.
She is proud of herself.
And she deserves to be.
And I don’t know how you think this album “landed” other than with millions of sales and her dominating the charts.
Also with plenty of critical acclaim.

+1
The first time I heard her latest album, I actually hated it. So many words! I told my daughter she needed an editor. But then I listened to it again, several times, over and over - and now I love it. There are only a few songs I don't like - the rest are fantastic. I think she outdid herself. And the weirdos who take every word literally are beyond silly.

I didn’t like the album at first but now I love it too. That said, there is no denying that Taylor is not that deep and the vast majority of her songs are about love and men, and in particular one man. That much became apparent in TTPD. “All those nights you kept me going, swirled you into all of my poems.”

She has said in the past that books, movies, and fiction inspired some of her songs and albums, but I think that was a ruse so she can freely express feelings and longings while in a relationship with another and also so she can appear more complex than a smitten woman.

I don't know - some of my favorite songs are the ones about other people, whether real or fictional. The Bolter, The Last Great American Dynasty, Clara Bow, Peter. She takes the experiences of other women and beautifully parallels them to her own. I think she's an incredible writer and actually do think she's got a lot of depth.

I love Peter, but it is definitely not about other people, it's about Matty Healy not growing up enough for her liking. It's screams me, me, me. Change for me.
Clara Bow was inspired by The 1975's Clara Bow character in their video of "I'm In Love With You." The Bolter is likely about him too. Matty is a well known cinephile, and he inspired and probably taught Taylor a lot about old movies and characters.
My initial point that a lot of her music is about her life under the disguise of "fiction" stands.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people are loons.
She took bits and pieces and strong feelings and made something out of it.
She crafted songs and then wanted to play them for the world because she was proud of them.
She is proud of herself.
And she deserves to be.
And I don’t know how you think this album “landed” other than with millions of sales and her dominating the charts.
Also with plenty of critical acclaim.

+1
The first time I heard her latest album, I actually hated it. So many words! I told my daughter she needed an editor. But then I listened to it again, several times, over and over - and now I love it. There are only a few songs I don't like - the rest are fantastic. I think she outdid herself. And the weirdos who take every word literally are beyond silly.

I didn’t like the album at first but now I love it too. That said, there is no denying that Taylor is not that deep and the vast majority of her songs are about love and men, and in particular one man. That much became apparent in TTPD. “All those nights you kept me going, swirled you into all of my poems.”

She has said in the past that books, movies, and fiction inspired some of her songs and albums, but I think that was a ruse so she can freely express feelings and longings while in a relationship with another and also so she can appear more complex than a smitten woman.

Agree she’s trying to mask that it’s truly all about one man—MH. Always has been. Anyone else is just passing her time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people are loons.
She took bits and pieces and strong feelings and made something out of it.
She crafted songs and then wanted to play them for the world because she was proud of them.
She is proud of herself.
And she deserves to be.
And I don’t know how you think this album “landed” other than with millions of sales and her dominating the charts.
Also with plenty of critical acclaim.

+1
The first time I heard her latest album, I actually hated it. So many words! I told my daughter she needed an editor. But then I listened to it again, several times, over and over - and now I love it. There are only a few songs I don't like - the rest are fantastic. I think she outdid herself. And the weirdos who take every word literally are beyond silly.

I didn’t like the album at first but now I love it too. That said, there is no denying that Taylor is not that deep and the vast majority of her songs are about love and men, and in particular one man. That much became apparent in TTPD. “All those nights you kept me going, swirled you into all of my poems.”

She has said in the past that books, movies, and fiction inspired some of her songs and albums, but I think that was a ruse so she can freely express feelings and longings while in a relationship with another and also so she can appear more complex than a smitten woman.

Agree she’s trying to mask that it’s truly all about one man—MH. Always has been. Anyone else is just passing her time.

Well that would be pathetic at this point. She has to move on. And get rid of the PR relationship - Travis is milking this for all it’s worth, like a parasite. It cheapens her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people are loons.
She took bits and pieces and strong feelings and made something out of it.
She crafted songs and then wanted to play them for the world because she was proud of them.
She is proud of herself.
And she deserves to be.
And I don’t know how you think this album “landed” other than with millions of sales and her dominating the charts.
Also with plenty of critical acclaim.

+1
The first time I heard her latest album, I actually hated it. So many words! I told my daughter she needed an editor. But then I listened to it again, several times, over and over - and now I love it. There are only a few songs I don't like - the rest are fantastic. I think she outdid herself. And the weirdos who take every word literally are beyond silly.

I didn’t like the album at first but now I love it too. That said, there is no denying that Taylor is not that deep and the vast majority of her songs are about love and men, and in particular one man. That much became apparent in TTPD. “All those nights you kept me going, swirled you into all of my poems.”

She has said in the past that books, movies, and fiction inspired some of her songs and albums, but I think that was a ruse so she can freely express feelings and longings while in a relationship with another and also so she can appear more complex than a smitten woman.

Agree she’s trying to mask that it’s truly all about one man—MH. Always has been. Anyone else is just passing her time.

Well that would be pathetic at this point. She has to move on. And get rid of the PR relationship - Travis is milking this for all it’s worth, like a parasite. It cheapens her.

Agree but that was the point of her album was air it out and to move on, she needs to be done with Travis now, her final crutch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Her new album is elevator music. The songs all sound the same and are heroically atrocious. There are no hooks, nothing catchy on the album.

The I want to kill her/him line is an instant skip for me, too dark and I usually have kids in the car.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people are loons.
She took bits and pieces and strong feelings and made something out of it.
She crafted songs and then wanted to play them for the world because she was proud of them.
She is proud of herself.
And she deserves to be.
And I don’t know how you think this album “landed” other than with millions of sales and her dominating the charts.
Also with plenty of critical acclaim.

+1
The first time I heard her latest album, I actually hated it. So many words! I told my daughter she needed an editor. But then I listened to it again, several times, over and over - and now I love it. There are only a few songs I don't like - the rest are fantastic. I think she outdid herself. And the weirdos who take every word literally are beyond silly.

I didn’t like the album at first but now I love it too. That said, there is no denying that Taylor is not that deep and the vast majority of her songs are about love and men, and in particular one man. That much became apparent in TTPD. “All those nights you kept me going, swirled you into all of my poems.”

She has said in the past that books, movies, and fiction inspired some of her songs and albums, but I think that was a ruse so she can freely express feelings and longings while in a relationship with another and also so she can appear more complex than a smitten woman.

Agree she’s trying to mask that it’s truly all about one man—MH. Always has been. Anyone else is just passing her time.

Well that would be pathetic at this point. She has to move on. And get rid of the PR relationship - Travis is milking this for all it’s worth, like a parasite. It cheapens her.

Agree but that was the point of her album was air it out and to move on, she needs to be done with Travis now, her final crutch.

No one wants her to be done more with Travis than you. No wonder these celebrities have security at all times when there are obsessive and possessive people out there like you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people are loons.
She took bits and pieces and strong feelings and made something out of it.
She crafted songs and then wanted to play them for the world because she was proud of them.
She is proud of herself.
And she deserves to be.
And I don’t know how you think this album “landed” other than with millions of sales and her dominating the charts.
Also with plenty of critical acclaim.

+1
The first time I heard her latest album, I actually hated it. So many words! I told my daughter she needed an editor. But then I listened to it again, several times, over and over - and now I love it. There are only a few songs I don't like - the rest are fantastic. I think she outdid herself. And the weirdos who take every word literally are beyond silly.

I didn’t like the album at first but now I love it too. That said, there is no denying that Taylor is not that deep and the vast majority of her songs are about love and men, and in particular one man. That much became apparent in TTPD. “All those nights you kept me going, swirled you into all of my poems.”

She has said in the past that books, movies, and fiction inspired some of her songs and albums, but I think that was a ruse so she can freely express feelings and longings while in a relationship with another and also so she can appear more complex than a smitten woman.

I don't know - some of my favorite songs are the ones about other people, whether real or fictional. The Bolter, The Last Great American Dynasty, Clara Bow, Peter. She takes the experiences of other women and beautifully parallels them to her own. I think she's an incredible writer and actually do think she's got a lot of depth.

I love Peter, but it is definitely not about other people, it's about Matty Healy not growing up enough for her liking. It's screams me, me, me. Change for me.
Clara Bow was inspired by The 1975's Clara Bow character in their video of "I'm In Love With You." The Bolter is likely about him too. Matty is a well known cinephile, and he inspired and probably taught Taylor a lot about old movies and characters.
My initial point that a lot of her music is about her life under the disguise of "fiction" stands.

You need to go back and read Peter Pan and then reevaluate your interpretation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m in my late-ish forties and am late to TS fandom, but here is why I like her:
She isn’t trying to shift her perspective and art to be masculine in any way.
She doesn’t care if guys get it.
And by being her authentic self, plenty of men do get it! I think Travis may be one of those guys ( trying to steer back to topic 😀)
I came of age in the 90’s and this is really powerful for me, because some much of the art, music, humor, and aesthetic of the 90’s was male centered. Their thoughts wants and perspectives were the default.
I love her for this.

Late forty’s here too. I dislike her because even though she pretends to be authentic, most songs she sings use put down tactics to make her point. She IS a powerful person, but she doesn’t acknowledge that in her songs without slighting others. I find it a weak version of feminine power because she isn’t’ owning it herself, she is putting others down to show her power.

This is gwen Stefani saying, this sucks to be a woman and I’m going to call you on it. I see it, and I don’t like it.


Take this pink ribbon off my eyes
I'm exposed and it's no big surprise
Don't you think I know exactly where I stand?
This world is forcing me to hold your hand

Oh, I'm just a girl, my apologies
What I've become is so burdensome
Oh, I'm just a girl, lucky me
Twiddle-dum, there's no comparison

The politics of gender are at play and being lambasted. It isn’t directed at individuals, but society in general.


This, like most Taylor songs, is Taylor talking her own power. She starts off well, but then throws in slighting other people in the process

Never be so polite, you forget your power
Never wield such power, you forget to be polite
And if I didn’t know better
I’d think you were listening to me now
If I didn’t know better
I’d think you were still around

Even this classic that gets thrown around is Taylor putting people down “you need to calm down”. She thinks she can have and express all of her big emotions, but if someone does that to her, telling them to calm down and minimize their feelings is super important.

And we see you over there on the internet
Comparing all the girls who are killing it
But we figured you out
We all know now, we all got crowns
You need to calm down

I don’t respect these lyrics because I don’t thinks slighting people is a good thing.

This long winded post is nonsensical.

Where does she slight anyone in the lyrics to marjorie? it’s a tribute to her dead grandmother. she’s the one the narrator is talking to (if i didn’t know better…)

Ha- didn’t realize I had the wrong lyric highlighted.

And there's nothin' like a mad woman
What a shame she went mad
No one likes a mad woman
You made her like that
And you'll poke that bear 'til her claws come out
And you find something to wrap your noose around
And there's nothin' like a mad woman

It was this one.

And yes, I am pointing out specific lyrics (or trying to LOL) that show Taylor attempts gaining power by putting the blame on others or by putting people down. My point is that I don’t live like that and that part of her doesn’t resonate with me at all because I find it counterproductive and disrespectful. Point out inequities, say you are dealing with them, but constantly blaming others or putting people down isn’t something I respect.
I’m old, I get that, but is the quality of blaming or shaming others really that much different than what Taylor experienced when she was bullied? I ‘m just saying that doesn’t make me respect her as much as I do other artists. It is probably generational, but I was responding to another person my age.

This song is a fiction depiction of a mad woman. This is fiction. She was sitting at home binge watching friends with her cats when a story about her came on that made her out to be crazy and she thought writing a story about that person would be way more interesting that who she really is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people are loons.
She took bits and pieces and strong feelings and made something out of it.
She crafted songs and then wanted to play them for the world because she was proud of them.
She is proud of herself.
And she deserves to be.
And I don’t know how you think this album “landed” other than with millions of sales and her dominating the charts.
Also with plenty of critical acclaim.

+1
The first time I heard her latest album, I actually hated it. So many words! I told my daughter she needed an editor. But then I listened to it again, several times, over and over - and now I love it. There are only a few songs I don't like - the rest are fantastic. I think she outdid herself. And the weirdos who take every word literally are beyond silly.

I didn’t like the album at first but now I love it too. That said, there is no denying that Taylor is not that deep and the vast majority of her songs are about love and men, and in particular one man. That much became apparent in TTPD. “All those nights you kept me going, swirled you into all of my poems.”

She has said in the past that books, movies, and fiction inspired some of her songs and albums, but I think that was a ruse so she can freely express feelings and longings while in a relationship with another and also so she can appear more complex than a smitten woman.

Agree she’s trying to mask that it’s truly all about one man—MH. Always has been. Anyone else is just passing her time.

Well that would be pathetic at this point. She has to move on. And get rid of the PR relationship - Travis is milking this for all it’s worth, like a parasite. It cheapens her.

so you think she’s live streaming an Instagram feed of a football teams ring ceremony at 4 AM local time for a PR relationship? Lol OK.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Her new album is elevator music. The songs all sound the same and are heroically atrocious. There are no hooks, nothing catchy on the album.

The I want to kill her/him line is an instant skip for me, too dark and I usually have kids in the car.

But “f it I can’t have him”, “touch me while your boys play grand theft auto”, “lights camera bitc4 smile”, “ My friends all smell like weed or little babies", “But she used to say she wished that you were dead”, “ Who the f was that guy?” and alluding to MH’s mini peni size Are all ok for your little Taylor tots? 😂

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Her new album is elevator music. The songs all sound the same and are heroically atrocious. There are no hooks, nothing catchy on the album.

The I want to kill her/him line is an instant skip for me, too dark and I usually have kids in the car.

But “f it I can’t have him”, “touch me while your boys play grand theft auto”, “lights camera bitc4 smile”, “ My friends all smell like weed or little babies", “But she used to say she wished that you were dead”, “ Who the f was that guy?” and alluding to MH’s mini peni size Are all ok for your little Taylor tots? 😂

NP. Get a grip.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Her new album is elevator music. The songs all sound the same and are heroically atrocious. There are no hooks, nothing catchy on the album.

The I want to kill her/him line is an instant skip for me, too dark and I usually have kids in the car.

But “f it I can’t have him”, “touch me while your boys play grand theft auto”, “lights camera bitc4 smile”, “ My friends all smell like weed or little babies", “But she used to say she wished that you were dead”, “ Who the f was that guy?” and alluding to MH’s mini peni size Are all ok for your little Taylor tots? 😂

Logic fail.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m in my late-ish forties and am late to TS fandom, but here is why I like her:
She isn’t trying to shift her perspective and art to be masculine in any way.
She doesn’t care if guys get it.
And by being her authentic self, plenty of men do get it! I think Travis may be one of those guys ( trying to steer back to topic 😀)
I came of age in the 90’s and this is really powerful for me, because some much of the art, music, humor, and aesthetic of the 90’s was male centered. Their thoughts wants and perspectives were the default.
I love her for this.

Huh. I thought of the 90s as turning toward a new wave of female representation. In the strong vocals, aesthetics, characters in TV and movies. And also in political representation. Maybe I saw it more as a surge toward rather than an arrival, you know? Or else you and I grew up in different media bubbles.

Yeah hard disagree. With few exceptions the female artists were packaged to be relatable to men. Specifically Gwen and Alanis.

Alanis? From what I remember there was little from her image that was targeted to men.

It wasn’t about sex appeal. It was anger, aggression, and the mosh pit.
She steered herself away eventually, but they pushed her hard at first.

I'm not trying to be a pain, but I don't understand. Alanis and Gwen had aggressive images to appeal to men?

You’re not a pain, but I don’t want to derail the thread. Basically I’m saying the thing that appealed ( to boys/teens) in the grunge 90’s wasn’t highly sexualized young women. Not that it didn’t exist- of course it did.
But TS’s earnest heartbreak wouldn’t have found a big audience in that era.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m in my late-ish forties and am late to TS fandom, but here is why I like her:
She isn’t trying to shift her perspective and art to be masculine in any way.
She doesn’t care if guys get it.
And by being her authentic self, plenty of men do get it! I think Travis may be one of those guys ( trying to steer back to topic 😀)
I came of age in the 90’s and this is really powerful for me, because some much of the art, music, humor, and aesthetic of the 90’s was male centered. Their thoughts wants and perspectives were the default.
I love her for this.

Late forty’s here too. I dislike her because even though she pretends to be authentic, most songs she sings use put down tactics to make her point. She IS a powerful person, but she doesn’t acknowledge that in her songs without slighting others. I find it a weak version of feminine power because she isn’t’ owning it herself, she is putting others down to show her power.

This is gwen Stefani saying, this sucks to be a woman and I’m going to call you on it. I see it, and I don’t like it.


Take this pink ribbon off my eyes
I'm exposed and it's no big surprise
Don't you think I know exactly where I stand?
This world is forcing me to hold your hand

Oh, I'm just a girl, my apologies
What I've become is so burdensome
Oh, I'm just a girl, lucky me
Twiddle-dum, there's no comparison

The politics of gender are at play and being lambasted. It isn’t directed at individuals, but society in general.


This, like most Taylor songs, is Taylor talking her own power. She starts off well, but then throws in slighting other people in the process

Never be so polite, you forget your power
Never wield such power, you forget to be polite
And if I didn’t know better
I’d think you were listening to me now
If I didn’t know better
I’d think you were still around

Even this classic that gets thrown around is Taylor putting people down “you need to calm down”. She thinks she can have and express all of her big emotions, but if someone does that to her, telling them to calm down and minimize their feelings is super important.

And we see you over there on the internet
Comparing all the girls who are killing it
But we figured you out
We all know now, we all got crowns
You need to calm down

I don’t respect these lyrics because I don’t thinks slighting people is a good thing.

This long winded post is nonsensical.

Where does she slight anyone in the lyrics to marjorie? it’s a tribute to her dead grandmother. she’s the one the narrator is talking to (if i didn’t know better…)

Ha- didn’t realize I had the wrong lyric highlighted.

And there's nothin' like a mad woman
What a shame she went mad
No one likes a mad woman
You made her like that
And you'll poke that bear 'til her claws come out
And you find something to wrap your noose around
And there's nothin' like a mad woman

It was this one.

And yes, I am pointing out specific lyrics (or trying to LOL) that show Taylor attempts gaining power by putting the blame on others or by putting people down. My point is that I don’t live like that and that part of her doesn’t resonate with me at all because I find it counterproductive and disrespectful. Point out inequities, say you are dealing with them, but constantly blaming others or putting people down isn’t something I respect.
I’m old, I get that, but is the quality of blaming or shaming others really that much different than what Taylor experienced when she was bullied? I ‘m just saying that doesn’t make me respect her as much as I do other artists. It is probably generational, but I was responding to another person my age.

This song is a fiction depiction of a mad woman. This is fiction. She was sitting at home binge watching friends with her cats when a story about her came on that made her out to be crazy and she thought writing a story about that person would be way more interesting that who she really is.

It doesn’t matter to me if it is fiction or not. The point is, the blame is always elsewhere.

“Look what you made me do”
“You made her like that.”
“ I want to kill her”
The problem is always someone outside of Taylor, never that she needs to take control of a situation or carry on without blaming.

Taylor, makes everything someone else’s fault without ever really standing in her own power. So I don’t see her as feminine empowerment the way others do. There is little true introspection in her work, but she describe feelings.

The songs of TS that I like are like Disney movie songs. “Love story” is cute “you belong with me”, also cute and I like it, but it is good bubble gum ear worms. A strong woman narrative shouldn’t tear others down and blame people.