Travis and Taylor

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m in my late-ish forties and am late to TS fandom, but here is why I like her:
She isn’t trying to shift her perspective and art to be masculine in any way.
She doesn’t care if guys get it.
And by being her authentic self, plenty of men do get it! I think Travis may be one of those guys ( trying to steer back to topic 😀)
I came of age in the 90’s and this is really powerful for me, because some much of the art, music, humor, and aesthetic of the 90’s was male centered. Their thoughts wants and perspectives were the default.
I love her for this.

Late forty’s here too. I dislike her because even though she pretends to be authentic, most songs she sings use put down tactics to make her point. She IS a powerful person, but she doesn’t acknowledge that in her songs without slighting others. I find it a weak version of feminine power because she isn’t’ owning it herself, she is putting others down to show her power.

This is gwen Stefani saying, this sucks to be a woman and I’m going to call you on it. I see it, and I don’t like it.


Take this pink ribbon off my eyes
I'm exposed and it's no big surprise
Don't you think I know exactly where I stand?
This world is forcing me to hold your hand

Oh, I'm just a girl, my apologies
What I've become is so burdensome
Oh, I'm just a girl, lucky me
Twiddle-dum, there's no comparison

The politics of gender are at play and being lambasted. It isn’t directed at individuals, but society in general.


This, like most Taylor songs, is Taylor talking her own power. She starts off well, but then throws in slighting other people in the process

Never be so polite, you forget your power
Never wield such power, you forget to be polite
And if I didn’t know better
I’d think you were listening to me now
If I didn’t know better
I’d think you were still around

Even this classic that gets thrown around is Taylor putting people down “you need to calm down”. She thinks she can have and express all of her big emotions, but if someone does that to her, telling them to calm down and minimize their feelings is super important.

And we see you over there on the internet
Comparing all the girls who are killing it
But we figured you out
We all know now, we all got crowns
You need to calm down

I don’t respect these lyrics because I don’t thinks slighting people is a good thing.

This long winded post is nonsensical.

Where does she slight anyone in the lyrics to marjorie? it’s a tribute to her dead grandmother. she’s the one the narrator is talking to (if i didn’t know better…)

Ha- didn’t realize I had the wrong lyric highlighted.

And there's nothin' like a mad woman
What a shame she went mad
No one likes a mad woman
You made her like that
And you'll poke that bear 'til her claws come out
And you find something to wrap your noose around
And there's nothin' like a mad woman

It was this one.

And yes, I am pointing out specific lyrics (or trying to LOL) that show Taylor attempts gaining power by putting the blame on others or by putting people down. My point is that I don’t live like that and that part of her doesn’t resonate with me at all because I find it counterproductive and disrespectful. Point out inequities, say you are dealing with them, but constantly blaming others or putting people down isn’t something I respect.
I’m old, I get that, but is the quality of blaming or shaming others really that much different than what Taylor experienced when she was bullied? I ‘m just saying that doesn’t make me respect her as much as I do other artists. It is probably generational, but I was responding to another person my age.

This song is a fiction depiction of a mad woman. This is fiction. She was sitting at home binge watching friends with her cats when a story about her came on that made her out to be crazy and she thought writing a story about that person would be way more interesting that who she really is.

It doesn’t matter to me if it is fiction or not. The point is, the blame is always elsewhere.

“Look what you made me do”
“You made her like that.”
“ I want to kill her”
The problem is always someone outside of Taylor, never that she needs to take control of a situation or carry on without blaming.

Taylor, makes everything someone else’s fault without ever really standing in her own power. So I don’t see her as feminine empowerment the way others do. There is little true introspection in her work, but she describe feelings.

The songs of TS that I like are like Disney movie songs. “Love story” is cute “you belong with me”, also cute and I like it, but it is good bubble gum ear worms. A strong woman narrative shouldn’t tear others down and blame people.

It's me, hi, I'm the problem it's me. Doesn't ring any bells?

[Anonymous]

I think you misread her a lot, PP. She's not pointing fingers as much as she's reacting. That's her style, reacting to life. Reflecting on what's making her tick, and her for (whether you agree or disagree) it's relationships, where she goes wrong, where they go wrong, etc. She's just reflecting on her life, and points the finger at herself plenty, as she reflects on where she went wrong too. It's also not that deep.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people are loons.
She took bits and pieces and strong feelings and made something out of it.
She crafted songs and then wanted to play them for the world because she was proud of them.
She is proud of herself.
And she deserves to be.
And I don’t know how you think this album “landed” other than with millions of sales and her dominating the charts.
Also with plenty of critical acclaim.

+1
The first time I heard her latest album, I actually hated it. So many words! I told my daughter she needed an editor. But then I listened to it again, several times, over and over - and now I love it. There are only a few songs I don't like - the rest are fantastic. I think she outdid herself. And the weirdos who take every word literally are beyond silly.

I didn’t like the album at first but now I love it too. That said, there is no denying that Taylor is not that deep and the vast majority of her songs are about love and men, and in particular one man. That much became apparent in TTPD. “All those nights you kept me going, swirled you into all of my poems.”

She has said in the past that books, movies, and fiction inspired some of her songs and albums, but I think that was a ruse so she can freely express feelings and longings while in a relationship with another and also so she can appear more complex than a smitten woman.

I don't know - some of my favorite songs are the ones about other people, whether real or fictional. The Bolter, The Last Great American Dynasty, Clara Bow, Peter. She takes the experiences of other women and beautifully parallels them to her own. I think she's an incredible writer and actually do think she's got a lot of depth.

I love Peter, but it is definitely not about other people, it's about Matty Healy not growing up enough for her liking. It's screams me, me, me. Change for me.
Clara Bow was inspired by The 1975's Clara Bow character in their video of "I'm In Love With You." The Bolter is likely about him too. Matty is a well known cinephile, and he inspired and probably taught Taylor a lot about old movies and characters.
My initial point that a lot of her music is about her life under the disguise of "fiction" stands.

I included Peter because it's actually about Wendy and her perspective of Peter, the boy who never grew up. Yes, it's also about Matty Healy, but that's because of the parallels. That's what I mean in the bolded.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think you misread her a lot, PP. She's not pointing fingers as much as she's reacting. That's her style, reacting to life. Reflecting on what's making her tick, and her for (whether you agree or disagree) it's relationships, where she goes wrong, where they go wrong, etc. She's just reflecting on her life, and points the finger at herself plenty, as she reflects on where she went wrong too. It's also not that deep.

This. Have you seen the music video for anti hero? It’s heart breaking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think you misread her a lot, PP. She's not pointing fingers as much as she's reacting. That's her style, reacting to life. Reflecting on what's making her tick, and her for (whether you agree or disagree) it's relationships, where she goes wrong, where they go wrong, etc. She's just reflecting on her life, and points the finger at herself plenty, as she reflects on where she went wrong too. It's also not that deep.

But does she learn from all these mistakes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you misread her a lot, PP. She's not pointing fingers as much as she's reacting. That's her style, reacting to life. Reflecting on what's making her tick, and her for (whether you agree or disagree) it's relationships, where she goes wrong, where they go wrong, etc. She's just reflecting on her life, and points the finger at herself plenty, as she reflects on where she went wrong too. It's also not that deep.

This. Have you seen the music video for anti hero? It’s heart breaking.

Yes I have seen the video and my heart isn’t broken for her because it is pretty obvious that fame sucks as far as wanting to lead a normal life. But courting fame is something she continues to do, so she seems to enjoy it.

Seriously though how could she and her parents not have understood that. How unreflective and unthinking do you have to be to want your kid to be famous? There are so many role models for a child star crashing, burning and being mentally a mess- why wouldn’t you think about that?

I guess the PPP was right - she just isn’t that deep and I like deep even in music.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you misread her a lot, PP. She's not pointing fingers as much as she's reacting. That's her style, reacting to life. Reflecting on what's making her tick, and her for (whether you agree or disagree) it's relationships, where she goes wrong, where they go wrong, etc. She's just reflecting on her life, and points the finger at herself plenty, as she reflects on where she went wrong too. It's also not that deep.

But does she learn from all these mistakes?

No, she’s learned nothing, her lyrics are literal and not at all artistic, she’s told you absolutely everything about herself so you know everything, and she’s a terrible human being. Happy now?

[Anonymous]

[img]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you misread her a lot, PP. She's not pointing fingers as much as she's reacting. That's her style, reacting to life. Reflecting on what's making her tick, and her for (whether you agree or disagree) it's relationships, where she goes wrong, where they go wrong, etc. She's just reflecting on her life, and points the finger at herself plenty, as she reflects on where she went wrong too. It's also not that deep.

This. Have you seen the music video for anti hero? It’s heart breaking.

Yes I have seen the video and my heart isn’t broken for her because it is pretty obvious that fame sucks as far as wanting to lead a normal life. But courting fame is something she continues to do, so she seems to enjoy it.

Seriously though how could she and her parents not have understood that. How unreflective and unthinking do you have to be to want your kid to be famous? There are so many role models for a child star crashing, burning and being mentally a mess- why wouldn’t you think about that?

I guess the PPP was right - she just isn’t that deep and I like deep even in music.

Oh please girl. Please. You sound like such poseur. Every influencer and blogger and you tuber out there is begging to be famous. It’s not like having this happen was totally foreseeable. How ridiculous. Also, tell us about this deep deep music you love and we can pick apart the lyrics.

[Anonymous]

Sarahs and Hannahs.... she already told you:
"God save the most judgmental creeps
Who say they want what's best for me
Sanctimoniously performing soliloquies I'll never see"

[Anonymous]

Like her or not: she's a lyrical genius IMHO, and so good at writing bridges.

[Anonymous]

Have they broken up yet? This seems like a long fade to set up a low-key 'remain supportive friends' break up, so she can keep going to NFL games and getting those NFL checks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:[img]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you misread her a lot, PP. She's not pointing fingers as much as she's reacting. That's her style, reacting to life. Reflecting on what's making her tick, and her for (whether you agree or disagree) it's relationships, where she goes wrong, where they go wrong, etc. She's just reflecting on her life, and points the finger at herself plenty, as she reflects on where she went wrong too. It's also not that deep.

This. Have you seen the music video for anti hero? It’s heart breaking.

Yes I have seen the video and my heart isn’t broken for her because it is pretty obvious that fame sucks as far as wanting to lead a normal life. But courting fame is something she continues to do, so she seems to enjoy it.

Seriously though how could she and her parents not have understood that. How unreflective and unthinking do you have to be to want your kid to be famous? There are so many role models for a child star crashing, burning and being mentally a mess- why wouldn’t you think about that?

I guess the PPP was right - she just isn’t that deep and I like deep even in music.

Oh please girl. Please. You sound like such poseur. Every influencer and blogger and you tuber out there is begging to be famous. It’s not like having this happen was totally foreseeable. How ridiculous. Also, tell us about this deep deep music you love and we can pick apart the lyrics.

I’m a 48 year old woman, there isn’t much girl left.

I never wanted anything to do with fame and just because YouTubers and bloggers want to be famous doesn’t make it admirable to me. I see it as another mantle set upon people and it is a gilded cage. Yes, her dad and mom chased fame for Taylor at a young age (her dad touted that she was one of the first stars to have her own webpage at age 12). I think it is pretty clear there are downsides to fame, if you don’t see that and want your kids to be super famous or admire it yourself, I guess that is a reason why you like Taylor. It doesn’t “break my heart” that Taylor has consequences to her actions.


“All you folks think I got my price
At which I'll sell all that is mine
You think money rules when all else fails
Go sell your soul and keep your shell
I'm trying to protect what I keep inside
All the reasons why I live my life”

“ Blackbird singing in the dead of night
Take these broken wings and learn to fly
All your life
You were only waiting for this moment to arise
Blackbird singing in the dead of night
Take these sunken eyes and learn to see
All your life
You were only waiting for this moment to be free”

Pick away! Songs I like are meaningful to me because that is what music does, appeals to different people in different ways. Taylor doesn’t appeal to me as a brand of feminism and power because her “power” is rooted in people pleasing and getting lost in your own feelings about things that happened to you rather than seeking freedom to make your own choices and been seen as an adult (responsible for good and bad in the world), not a “girl with big feelings and reactions.”

[Anonymous]

[twitter]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[img]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you misread her a lot, PP. She's not pointing fingers as much as she's reacting. That's her style, reacting to life. Reflecting on what's making her tick, and her for (whether you agree or disagree) it's relationships, where she goes wrong, where they go wrong, etc. She's just reflecting on her life, and points the finger at herself plenty, as she reflects on where she went wrong too. It's also not that deep.

This. Have you seen the music video for anti hero? It’s heart breaking.

Yes I have seen the video and my heart isn’t broken for her because it is pretty obvious that fame sucks as far as wanting to lead a normal life. But courting fame is something she continues to do, so she seems to enjoy it.

Seriously though how could she and her parents not have understood that. How unreflective and unthinking do you have to be to want your kid to be famous? There are so many role models for a child star crashing, burning and being mentally a mess- why wouldn’t you think about that?

I guess the PPP was right - she just isn’t that deep and I like deep even in music.

Oh please girl. Please. You sound like such poseur. Every influencer and blogger and you tuber out there is begging to be famous. It’s not like having this happen was totally foreseeable. How ridiculous. Also, tell us about this deep deep music you love and we can pick apart the lyrics.

I’m a 48 year old woman, there isn’t much girl left.

I never wanted anything to do with fame and just because YouTubers and bloggers want to be famous doesn’t make it admirable to me. I see it as another mantle set upon people and it is a gilded cage. Yes, her dad and mom chased fame for Taylor at a young age (her dad touted that she was one of the first stars to have her own webpage at age 12). I think it is pretty clear there are downsides to fame, if you don’t see that and want your kids to be super famous or admire it yourself, I guess that is a reason why you like Taylor. It doesn’t “break my heart” that Taylor has consequences to her actions.


“All you folks think I got my price
At which I'll sell all that is mine
You think money rules when all else fails
Go sell your soul and keep your shell
I'm trying to protect what I keep inside
All the reasons why I live my life”

“ Blackbird singing in the dead of night
Take these broken wings and learn to fly
All your life
You were only waiting for this moment to arise
Blackbird singing in the dead of night
Take these sunken eyes and learn to see
All your life
You were only waiting for this moment to be free”

Pick away! Songs I like are meaningful to me because that is what music does, appeals to different people in different ways. Taylor doesn’t appeal to me as a brand of feminism and power because her “power” is rooted in people pleasing and getting lost in your own feelings about things that happened to you rather than seeking freedom to make your own choices and been seen as an adult (responsible for good and bad in the world), not a “girl with big feelings and reactions.”

So the Beatles. Okay, sure. You’re 48 not 58 so it’s rather suspicious, but whatever you say. The thing about taste is that you’re not the arbiter of it. I wouldn’t say these lyrics are any deeper than any other song. It’s actually the Taylor swift of its day, which is pretty funny. Old =\ deep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:[twitter]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[img]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you misread her a lot, PP. She's not pointing fingers as much as she's reacting. That's her style, reacting to life. Reflecting on what's making her tick, and her for (whether you agree or disagree) it's relationships, where she goes wrong, where they go wrong, etc. She's just reflecting on her life, and points the finger at herself plenty, as she reflects on where she went wrong too. It's also not that deep.

This. Have you seen the music video for anti hero? It’s heart breaking.

Yes I have seen the video and my heart isn’t broken for her because it is pretty obvious that fame sucks as far as wanting to lead a normal life. But courting fame is something she continues to do, so she seems to enjoy it.

Seriously though how could she and her parents not have understood that. How unreflective and unthinking do you have to be to want your kid to be famous? There are so many role models for a child star crashing, burning and being mentally a mess- why wouldn’t you think about that?

I guess the PPP was right - she just isn’t that deep and I like deep even in music.

Oh please girl. Please. You sound like such poseur. Every influencer and blogger and you tuber out there is begging to be famous. It’s not like having this happen was totally foreseeable. How ridiculous. Also, tell us about this deep deep music you love and we can pick apart the lyrics.

I’m a 48 year old woman, there isn’t much girl left.

I never wanted anything to do with fame and just because YouTubers and bloggers want to be famous doesn’t make it admirable to me. I see it as another mantle set upon people and it is a gilded cage. Yes, her dad and mom chased fame for Taylor at a young age (her dad touted that she was one of the first stars to have her own webpage at age 12). I think it is pretty clear there are downsides to fame, if you don’t see that and want your kids to be super famous or admire it yourself, I guess that is a reason why you like Taylor. It doesn’t “break my heart” that Taylor has consequences to her actions.


“All you folks think I got my price
At which I'll sell all that is mine
You think money rules when all else fails
Go sell your soul and keep your shell
I'm trying to protect what I keep inside
All the reasons why I live my life”

“ Blackbird singing in the dead of night
Take these broken wings and learn to fly
All your life
You were only waiting for this moment to arise
Blackbird singing in the dead of night
Take these sunken eyes and learn to see
All your life
You were only waiting for this moment to be free”

Pick away! Songs I like are meaningful to me because that is what music does, appeals to different people in different ways. Taylor doesn’t appeal to me as a brand of feminism and power because her “power” is rooted in people pleasing and getting lost in your own feelings about things that happened to you rather than seeking freedom to make your own choices and been seen as an adult (responsible for good and bad in the world), not a “girl with big feelings and reactions.”

So the Beatles. Okay, sure. You’re 48 not 58 so it’s rather suspicious, but whatever you say. The thing about taste is that you’re not the arbiter of it. I wouldn’t say these lyrics are any deeper than any other song. It’s actually the Taylor swift of its day, which is pretty funny. Old =\ deep.

DP. I'd like to see Taylor expand her work beyond dating. At this point it feels like 85% of her songs. But that's her bread and butter. I'd also like to see her move past her whole teenage persona, but that's what her fans enjoy.

I like some of her songs in the way I like some candy. Too many empty calories, though, and I'm looking for something with more substance. Obviously there are millions who can't get enough.

you can't see the difference and breadth of source material for these songs, and Taylor's you're a stone wall and there's no dialogue to be had.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Have they broken up yet? This seems like a long fade to set up a low-key 'remain supportive friends' break up, so she can keep going to NFL games and getting those NFL checks.

Totally absurd. If they ever do break up, do you honestly think she would ever be seen at another football game? Zero chance.