8 Skiers dead after accidental Avalanche in California!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is absolutely davastating! my thoughts and prayers are with the families right now.


https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c62dke15357o

Can you imagine heading out for a day of fun and then, THIS??

What is an "accidental" avalanche?

Versus a deliberately triggered avalanche.

But this was just an avalanche. It wasn't an "accidental avalanche." Shit just happens. There was no need whatsoever for the weird modifier.

That makes it accidental vs avalanches that are triggered using techniques such as explosives to make skiiing areas more safe.

+1. The fact that some posters don’t even know this occurs explains so much about some of the commentary.

When skiers trigger an avalanche, that's not just accidental.

Exactly. The women triggered the avalanche.

Definitely not the conditions ripe for avalanches.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like we’re so cooked as a society.

- people now blindly follow “guides” and have lost the ability to think for themselves.

- our lives are unfulfilled and boring and we need extreme excursions to bring us back to life

- we continue to hold moms to a higher standard.

- someone in this thread was hurt by an intelligent woman or something, and it shows. It’s one thing to point out that the guides - men and a woman - and the guests - men and women - made dumb decisions. It’s another thing to smugly fixate on the women, their jobs, their colleges. It’s weird.

Remember being told that we weren't allowed to question the experts and that doing own research is foolish?

Go back to 4chan

Never been there. First, you say listen to the experts. Then you blame them for listening to the experts and not asking questions. You can't have it both ways.

DP here - I agree with you. People on this thread are coming down HARD on the skiers for blindly taking the advice of the guides, but in reality, most people would have done the same thing. Our society has set up a system where people don't think for themselves, be it skiing down a mountain or taking a vaccine or taking a certain medication.

(And for the record, I am a huge supporter of vaccines. I am fully vaccinated. But I think people who do their own research (actual research, not TikTok) should be applauded, not derided).

I disagree. Most intelligent people take the time to read weather reports before taking a trip and would cancel or postpone if especially heavy snowfall or hurricanes were predicted.

Are you posting from somewhere in Alabama? I don’t think you understand what weather forecasts look like in that area at that time of year. Or anywhere in the mountains, for that matter.

Along those lines, do you think your opinion is more valid than the people who actually participate in back country skiing? If so, why? If not, maybe no one needs to hear what you have to say.

The truth clearly hit on your nerves. A back country skier defending the risks. (And, no, I'm not in Alabama.)

I’m not a back country skier. I’m just someone who knows that I don’t know more than any of the people who were on the mountain that day so I’m not in a place to second guess them. Also, they’re dead, so I’m not going to be disrespectful. I understand that you think your unfounded opinions are worth a lot. I disagree.

If you're on the coast of Florida, and a strong hurricane has been predicted for axweek, don't go out in a boat. Accidental drowning may occur.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For another perspective, read this article from Outside: https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/snow-sports/tahoe-avalanche-truckee-memorial-moms/

This is some duuumb self-congratulatory rationalization.

What's dumb about it?

What’s intelligent about it?

Notice how the author reduces these women to just "moms". I'm sure they would hate that since so much of this is about not losing their sense of self and not just being wives, mothers, employees, sense of self, freedom.. But, this author just calls them 'moms'. The same women would probably bristle if the pediatrician walked in the exam room and just referred to them as "mom" during a child's appointment, instead of bothering to learn her name.

What author? Certainly not the author of the NYT’s article.

The one we're talking about.

That author listed each victim’s profession.

Yeah thats not the one we are talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like we’re so cooked as a society.

- people now blindly follow “guides” and have lost the ability to think for themselves.

- our lives are unfulfilled and boring and we need extreme excursions to bring us back to life

- we continue to hold moms to a higher standard.

- someone in this thread was hurt by an intelligent woman or something, and it shows. It’s one thing to point out that the guides - men and a woman - and the guests - men and women - made dumb decisions. It’s another thing to smugly fixate on the women, their jobs, their colleges. It’s weird.

Remember being told that we weren't allowed to question the experts and that doing own research is foolish?

Go back to 4chan

Never been there. First, you say listen to the experts. Then you blame them for listening to the experts and not asking questions. You can't have it both ways.

DP here - I agree with you. People on this thread are coming down HARD on the skiers for blindly taking the advice of the guides, but in reality, most people would have done the same thing. Our society has set up a system where people don't think for themselves, be it skiing down a mountain or taking a vaccine or taking a certain medication.

(And for the record, I am a huge supporter of vaccines. I am fully vaccinated. But I think people who do their own research (actual research, not TikTok) should be applauded, not derided).

I disagree. Most intelligent people take the time to read weather reports before taking a trip and would cancel or postpone if especially heavy snowfall or hurricanes were predicted.

Are you posting from somewhere in Alabama? I don’t think you understand what weather forecasts look like in that area at that time of year. Or anywhere in the mountains, for that matter.

Along those lines, do you think your opinion is more valid than the people who actually participate in back country skiing? If so, why? If not, maybe no one needs to hear what you have to say.

The truth clearly hit on your nerves. A back country skier defending the risks. (And, no, I'm not in Alabama.)

I’m not a back country skier. I’m just someone who knows that I don’t know more than any of the people who were on the mountain that day so I’m not in a place to second guess them. Also, they’re dead, so I’m not going to be disrespectful. I understand that you think your unfounded opinions are worth a lot. I disagree.

+1 million

No one GAF about the clueless, judgmental cow’s opinion.

[Anonymous]

Avalanches can either have:

Natural triggers (heavy snow, temp change, wind)

Human-induced triggers (skiing/snowboarding/snowmobiling or avalanche control work like explosives)

Sometimes there are both issues at play and I think this one was both. Heavy recent snow on a persistent weak layer, combined with human activity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like we’re so cooked as a society.

- people now blindly follow “guides” and have lost the ability to think for themselves.

- our lives are unfulfilled and boring and we need extreme excursions to bring us back to life

- we continue to hold moms to a higher standard.

- someone in this thread was hurt by an intelligent woman or something, and it shows. It’s one thing to point out that the guides - men and a woman - and the guests - men and women - made dumb decisions. It’s another thing to smugly fixate on the women, their jobs, their colleges. It’s weird.

Remember being told that we weren't allowed to question the experts and that doing own research is foolish?

Go back to 4chan

Never been there. First, you say listen to the experts. Then you blame them for listening to the experts and not asking questions. You can't have it both ways.

DP here - I agree with you. People on this thread are coming down HARD on the skiers for blindly taking the advice of the guides, but in reality, most people would have done the same thing. Our society has set up a system where people don't think for themselves, be it skiing down a mountain or taking a vaccine or taking a certain medication.

(And for the record, I am a huge supporter of vaccines. I am fully vaccinated. But I think people who do their own research (actual research, not TikTok) should be applauded, not derided).

I disagree. Most intelligent people take the time to read weather reports before taking a trip and would cancel or postpone if especially heavy snowfall or hurricanes were predicted.

Are you posting from somewhere in Alabama? I don’t think you understand what weather forecasts look like in that area at that time of year. Or anywhere in the mountains, for that matter.

Along those lines, do you think your opinion is more valid than the people who actually participate in back country skiing? If so, why? If not, maybe no one needs to hear what you have to say.

The truth clearly hit on your nerves. A back country skier defending the risks. (And, no, I'm not in Alabama.)

I’m not a back country skier. I’m just someone who knows that I don’t know more than any of the people who were on the mountain that day so I’m not in a place to second guess them. Also, they’re dead, so I’m not going to be disrespectful. I understand that you think your unfounded opinions are worth a lot. I disagree.

+1 million

No one GAF about the clueless, judgmental cow’s opinion.

Keep ignoring weather forecasts. All good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Avalanches can either have:

Natural triggers (heavy snow, temp change, wind)

Human-induced triggers (skiing/snowboarding/snowmobiling or avalanche control work like explosives)

Sometimes there are both issues at play and I think this one was both. Heavy recent snow on a persistent weak layer, combined with human activity.

+1 as warnings indicated could occur

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I read a very interesting article about the Tunnel Creek avalanche in which a group of 16 expert skiiers went on an off piste run. Several of them actually had huge reservations at various stages (About timing, route, conditions, size of group...) but all separately expressed after the fact that they could not bring themselves to say anything because they didn't want to be perceived as cowardly, lacking in expertise. Some of these people were local and had known the mountain and skiied it their entire lives.

Highly recommend this article in NY Times, it's called Snow Fall: the avalanche at Tunnel Creek.

This is a great read. The lead man ignored the avalanche forecast.
Three men were killed in the avalanche. One woman survived but she had a new to the market inflatable thing. Another man
survived by being wedged between two trees. All 16 were expert skiers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read a very interesting article about the Tunnel Creek avalanche in which a group of 16 expert skiiers went on an off piste run. Several of them actually had huge reservations at various stages (About timing, route, conditions, size of group...) but all separately expressed after the fact that they could not bring themselves to say anything because they didn't want to be perceived as cowardly, lacking in expertise. Some of these people were local and had known the mountain and skiied it their entire lives.

Highly recommend this article in NY Times, it's called Snow Fall: the avalanche at Tunnel Creek.

This is a great read. The lead man ignored the avalanche forecast.
Three men were killed in the avalanche. One woman survived but she had a new to the market inflatable thing. Another man
survived by being wedged between two trees. All 16 were expert skiers.

PP. There are also great photos, graphics and videos in the article.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read a very interesting article about the Tunnel Creek avalanche in which a group of 16 expert skiiers went on an off piste run. Several of them actually had huge reservations at various stages (About timing, route, conditions, size of group...) but all separately expressed after the fact that they could not bring themselves to say anything because they didn't want to be perceived as cowardly, lacking in expertise. Some of these people were local and had known the mountain and skiied it their entire lives.

Highly recommend this article in NY Times, it's called Snow Fall: the avalanche at Tunnel Creek.

This is a great read. The lead man ignored the avalanche forecast.
Three men were killed in the avalanche. One woman survived but she had a new to the market inflatable thing. Another man
survived by being wedged between two trees. All 16 were expert skiers.

I think what I’m learning from all of this (as someone who never skis and has zero interest in it), is that these people understand the risks and consequences because they go out there equipped for potential avalanches. I believe they all know there is a chance they could die out there - it is the wilderness after all, and they are willing to take that chance. Personally, I don’t want to be taken out by an avalanche- seems like a horrific way to go, so I will never, ever, put myself in that position, however, some people think it’s worth the risk, I guess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is absolutely davastating! my thoughts and prayers are with the families right now.


https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c62dke15357o

Can you imagine heading out for a day of fun and then, THIS??

What is an "accidental" avalanche?

Versus a deliberately triggered avalanche.

But this was just an avalanche. It wasn't an "accidental avalanche." Shit just happens. There was no need whatsoever for the weird modifier.

Safety is never accidental.

It was this time. The male survivors were held back by their lack of skill and in one case struggling with a binding. They accidentally weren’t bunched directly in the path of the avalanche as the guides had the women. From that point on, led mostly by the electrician is the impression the NYT article leaves, they made good choices in rescue and survival. But their initial survival was entirely accidental.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is absolutely davastating! my thoughts and prayers are with the families right now.


https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c62dke15357o

Can you imagine heading out for a day of fun and then, THIS??

What is an "accidental" avalanche?

Versus a deliberately triggered avalanche.

But this was just an avalanche. It wasn't an "accidental avalanche." Shit just happens. There was no need whatsoever for the weird modifier.

That makes it accidental vs avalanches that are triggered using techniques such as explosives to make skiiing areas more safe.

+1. The fact that some posters don’t even know this occurs explains so much about some of the commentary.

When skiers trigger an avalanche, that's not just accidental.

Exactly. The women triggered the avalanche.

Definitely not the conditions ripe for avalanches.

"Accidentally" means, by definition, unexpectedly or unintentionally. Is English your first language?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is absolutely davastating! my thoughts and prayers are with the families right now.


https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c62dke15357o

Can you imagine heading out for a day of fun and then, THIS??

What is an "accidental" avalanche?

Versus a deliberately triggered avalanche.

But this was just an avalanche. It wasn't an "accidental avalanche." Shit just happens. There was no need whatsoever for the weird modifier.

That makes it accidental vs avalanches that are triggered using techniques such as explosives to make skiiing areas more safe.

+1. The fact that some posters don’t even know this occurs explains so much about some of the commentary.

When skiers trigger an avalanche, that's not just accidental.

Exactly. The women triggered the avalanche.

Definitely not the conditions ripe for avalanches.

"Accidentally" means, by definition, unexpectedly or unintentionally. Is English your first language?

This avalanche wasn't unexpected. What are you talking about? There were avalanche warnings and predictions. So, exactly the opposite of an accident.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is absolutely davastating! my thoughts and prayers are with the families right now.


https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c62dke15357o

Can you imagine heading out for a day of fun and then, THIS??

What is an "accidental" avalanche?

Versus a deliberately triggered avalanche.

But this was just an avalanche. It wasn't an "accidental avalanche." Shit just happens. There was no need whatsoever for the weird modifier.

That makes it accidental vs avalanches that are triggered using techniques such as explosives to make skiiing areas more safe.

+1. The fact that some posters don’t even know this occurs explains so much about some of the commentary.

When skiers trigger an avalanche, that's not just accidental.

Exactly. The women triggered the avalanche.

Definitely not the conditions ripe for avalanches.

"Accidentally" means, by definition, unexpectedly or unintentionally. Is English your first language?

Similar to tossing a match or cigarette onto a puddle of gasoline "accidentally" results in a fire.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like we’re so cooked as a society.

- people now blindly follow “guides” and have lost the ability to think for themselves.

- our lives are unfulfilled and boring and we need extreme excursions to bring us back to life

- we continue to hold moms to a higher standard.

- someone in this thread was hurt by an intelligent woman or something, and it shows. It’s one thing to point out that the guides - men and a woman - and the guests - men and women - made dumb decisions. It’s another thing to smugly fixate on the women, their jobs, their colleges. It’s weird.

Remember being told that we weren't allowed to question the experts and that doing own research is foolish?

Go back to 4chan

Never been there. First, you say listen to the experts. Then you blame them for listening to the experts and not asking questions. You can't have it both ways.

DP here - I agree with you. People on this thread are coming down HARD on the skiers for blindly taking the advice of the guides, but in reality, most people would have done the same thing. Our society has set up a system where people don't think for themselves, be it skiing down a mountain or taking a vaccine or taking a certain medication.

(And for the record, I am a huge supporter of vaccines. I am fully vaccinated. But I think people who do their own research (actual research, not TikTok) should be applauded, not derided).

I disagree. Most intelligent people take the time to read weather reports before taking a trip and would cancel or postpone if especially heavy snowfall or hurricanes were predicted.

Are you posting from somewhere in Alabama? I don’t think you understand what weather forecasts look like in that area at that time of year. Or anywhere in the mountains, for that matter.

Along those lines, do you think your opinion is more valid than the people who actually participate in back country skiing? If so, why? If not, maybe no one needs to hear what you have to say.

The truth clearly hit on your nerves. A back country skier defending the risks. (And, no, I'm not in Alabama.)

I’m not a back country skier. I’m just someone who knows that I don’t know more than any of the people who were on the mountain that day so I’m not in a place to second guess them. Also, they’re dead, so I’m not going to be disrespectful. I understand that you think your unfounded opinions are worth a lot. I disagree.

If you're on the coast of Florida, and a strong hurricane has been predicted for axweek, don't go out in a boat. Accidental drowning may occur.

It is abundantly clear that you do not understand weather. But keep posting your useless judgment. Or learn that sometimes it’s just best to stay quiet.