Do narcissists ever know they are narcissists? Can they change?

[Anonymous]

I've been having a lot of conflict with my husband over the last few years- his personality completely changed since we had children- he has become distant, often angry, and doesn't respond when I tell him what I need emotionally (he also won't tell me what he needs), and he just doesn't treat me lovingly. I started counseling for PPD two years ago and realized a lot of my mood wasn't PPD but was more related to how he was treating me...little things here and there that I brushed off or mentally justified ("he is a stressed out parent", or "the baby was up last night and DH is overtired".) I ended that round of counseling with intentions (seemingly mine only) that we'd work through things. They ebbed and flowed and then our conflict started to grow again. I started to feel like we were roommates in the same house. I randomly came across and article on NPD and felt like most of the characteristics fit my husband.

He has been unwilling to go to counseling for the last two years, furthering the rift between us. I started counseling again to talk about what next (separation?) and when I described our situation (much more than I'm describing here), over several sessions, the counselor without my prompting said he sounded like a narcissist. I wrote him a long letter about my frustrations since we can't seem to have a civil discussion about needs, and he finally agreed to counseling. He has started his own counseling and we are working on getting booked for couples sessions. However, right now I'm feeling so overwhelmed at what we'd have to get past and wondering, if he, is in fact somewhere along the spectrum (for lack of a better word) of NPD, how does that get discussed? Narcissists are prone to deflect and take personally anything they perceive as attacks on themselves so how to even make him aware of it.

Just looking for support or insight from anyone who has gone through anything similar.

Thank you in advance.

[Anonymous]

A true narcissist? No. But I don't think adults become narcissists. Maybe he's just acting like a self-centered jerk, which is tough to deal with but changeable. If he were a pathological narc, you'd probably have seen signs of it, ever since he'd officially won you over. They're very charming at first. Then they discard you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A true narcissist? No. But I don't think adults become narcissists. Maybe he's just acting like a self-centered jerk, which is tough to deal with but changeable. If he were a pathological narc, you'd probably have seen signs of it, ever since he'd officially won you over. They're very charming at first. Then they discard you.

I don't think he became this way. I'm concerned he was this way before and it was buried behind charm, as narcissists are supposed to have a way to do. I did see signs but they were little things that I dismissed in the same way I dismissed the growing conflict after kids. (We had kids pretty early so there wasn't a lot of time to know him independently). His background in early life also matches very closely with some of the scenarios that are common in narcissists.

[Anonymous]

Your attempting to "diagnose" him (which you're not qualified to do, and neither is your therapist if he/she hasn't seen him) is only going to chase him away.

[Anonymous]

I had a 'friend' who I suspect was a narcisstic. Her behavior included-

1. Going very hot and cold in behavior
2. Hero worshipping people one moment and discarding them the next when they had no use or did something that she felt went against the idea that she was perfect.
3. Very big ego and loves the attention and 'celebrity' status that being a fitness instructor brings.
4. Rates herself VERY highly.
5. Never accepting blame but passing it onto someone else.
6. Exceptionally two faced.

Best thing I ever did was cut her out my life, She is truly toxic. A true narcisstic will never change as they never believe they are at fault and there is always someone else to blame.

[Anonymous]

7. VERY self absorbed
8. Rarely keeps a promise

[Anonymous]

I don't know what the official answer is, but my guess is that a true narcissist would feel that their their narcissistic behavior is justified because they are unappreciated, or that they "have" to do certain ruthless things in order to achieve their ambitions.

[Anonymous]

You may want to have a few sessions alone with your own therapist to work on this.

I don't think it will help to label your husband to his face. It's not like it will be an a-ha moment and he'll now know how to behave differently. Allow the therapist to direct the course of therapy. The therapist has to figure out where your husband is currently at emotionally, what he needs and how to get him there, and hopefully do it in a way that doesn't scare him off.

Narcissists usually don't think they have a problem, don't go to therapy, or if they do go, drop out when things get hard. It's a good sign that your DH is willing to go to therapy after reading your letter. Be patient with the process as long as he's willing to work on the issues.

[Anonymous]

No, he will not change.

[Anonymous]

If he were truly a narcissist, he would not be going to counseling on his own or with you.

[Anonymous]

In order for a person to be diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) they must meet five or more of the following symptoms:

-Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
-Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
-Believes that he or she is “special” and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
-Requires excessive admiration
-Has a very strong sense of entitlement, e.g., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations
-Is exploitative of others, e.g., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
-Lacks empathy, e.g., is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others
-Is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her
-Regularly shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

[Anonymous]

Can you give us some examples of his behavior that seems
Narcissistic?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In order for a person to be diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) they must meet five or more of the following symptoms:

-Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
-Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
-Believes that he or she is “special” and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
-Requires excessive admiration
-Has a very strong sense of entitlement, e.g., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations
-Is exploitative of others, e.g., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
-Lacks empathy, e.g., is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others
-Is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her
-Regularly shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

Wow I never realized before seeing those symptoms all listed how 100% accurate this is as a description of the President.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In order for a person to be diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) they must meet five or more of the following symptoms:

-Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
-Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
-Believes that he or she is “special” and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
-Requires excessive admiration
-Has a very strong sense of entitlement, e.g., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations
-Is exploitative of others, e.g., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
-Lacks empathy, e.g., is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others
-Is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her
-Regularly shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

Wow I never realized before seeing those symptoms all listed how 100% accurate this is as a description of the President.

Yeah, self-entitled Obama to a "T".

[Anonymous]

There is research on this. More accurate than all these symptoms, is if you ask a person:

Are you a narcissist?

If they are, they will say yes!