Do narcissists ever know they are narcissists? Can they change?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is hard to tell based on your first post. You said that your DH is not emotionally there for you? Very few men are, this is something women struggle with, bcs many, many men don't have that need or understand it. It sounds to them like you are always unhappy and they should do something about it. You said he doesn't treat you lovingly, how exactly does he treat you? Is he petulant and ignoring you, or just plain abusive, verbally, physically? What you told doesn't qualify as a NPD just most men who are clueless. If he is otherwise not abusive, is he depressed? Are you maybe projecting your depression and trying to have him be a perfect husband that will predict your emotional need? That is a battle lost with most men. If he is abusive, well, that is a lot different.

Thanks for the responses. As I mentioned already, my point on here is not to bash him or go into the details of why I think he is a narcissist or have anyone here diagnosis him as such based on my description. I've read enough about NPD to feel very confident he falls somewhere along that spectrum and had a professional therapist tell me they think he is as well, as I mentioned, based on actions and behaviors I've described, without my ever using the word narcissist to the counselor.

I do feel some of his treatment of me falls into emotional abuse, whether intentional or not, and I did tell him that, which he of course scoffed at. Just a few days later he agreed to counseling after two years of prodding so I'm not sure if he looked up something and it clicked...or who knows, maybe he found a counselor to describe our situation and hope that someone would validate his behavior.

Anyway, really just looking for experiences of people who have been through something similar and what their outcomes were.

No. It doesn't work that way. Even a "professional therapist" can't diagnose someone based on a one-sided account of another person's behavior (especially a person they've never met).

You aren't going to have much luck with marital counseling if you go in with some sort of certainty that your husband has NPD (even though he's never been diagnosed as such by a counselor with whom he is actually meeting).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is hard to tell based on your first post. You said that your DH is not emotionally there for you? Very few men are, this is something women struggle with, bcs many, many men don't have that need or understand it. It sounds to them like you are always unhappy and they should do something about it. You said he doesn't treat you lovingly, how exactly does he treat you? Is he petulant and ignoring you, or just plain abusive, verbally, physically? What you told doesn't qualify as a NPD just most men who are clueless. If he is otherwise not abusive, is he depressed? Are you maybe projecting your depression and trying to have him be a perfect husband that will predict your emotional need? That is a battle lost with most men. If he is abusive, well, that is a lot different.

Thanks for the responses. As I mentioned already, my point on here is not to bash him or go into the details of why I think he is a narcissist or have anyone here diagnosis him as such based on my description. I've read enough about NPD to feel very confident he falls somewhere along that spectrum and had a professional therapist tell me they think he is as well, as I mentioned, based on actions and behaviors I've described, without my ever using the word narcissist to the counselor.

I do feel some of his treatment of me falls into emotional abuse, whether intentional or not, and I did tell him that, which he of course scoffed at. Just a few days later he agreed to counseling after two years of prodding so I'm not sure if he looked up something and it clicked...or who knows, maybe he found a counselor to describe our situation and hope that someone would validate his behavior.

Anyway, really just looking for experiences of people who have been through something similar and what their outcomes were.

No. It doesn't work that way. Even a "professional therapist" can't diagnose someone based on a one-sided account of another person's behavior (especially a person they've never met).

You aren't going to have much luck with marital counseling if you go in with some sort of certainty that your husband has NPD (even though he's never been diagnosed as such by a counselor with whom he is actually meeting).

I didn't say this was a diagnosis. She suggested a lot of the characteristics and behaviors that he has displayed over time are those common in narcissists.

[Anonymous]

froggymom wrote:Right now the important thing to focus on is the fact that he is going for counseling and that you are working on going as a couple. That is tremendous progress since he refused to go for two years. Let the therapist help you understand what is going on in the relationship. In the meantime be kind to yourself. I give you much credit for trying to work it out and not giving up. I will be praying for you.

Thank you

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:First of all, you should get a different therapist.

I can't imagine a good therapist, without ever having met with your husband and knowing that she is treating *you*, would make a pretty strong statement like that just by what you've told her.

Are you sure she wasn't suggesting your husband is acting narcissistic? That is different than saying he has NPD.

It also seems like you gloss over the fact that he is now getting counseling and has agreed to go to counseling. I have a difficult time believing someone who is truly a narcissist would respond to your letter by getting counseling. And yet your husband is getting counseling.

It's possible your husband is just a jerk. I feel like the terms narcissist and sociopath are tossed around a lot. Someone can just be a jerk.

If you truly want the counseling to work with your husband, don't go in there having already convinced yourself of a diagnosis. Stick to the facts -- the observable behavior he demonstrates that bothers you. And go from there.

If you really want a shot at improving things, focus on telling your husband the things he does that bother you, upset you, leave you feeling bad. That way, the focus is on the actions, as opposed to just telling him you think he's a narcissist.

You seem to have missed that I've been expressing these things (my feelings, needs, observable facts, etc) to my husband over a period of years, before the word narcissist was ever raised (in my mind or by my therapist). He has not made an effort to change in that time. Many partners would have walked out in that period of time but I've hung on to see if something will click and the fact that he's agreed to therapy after a very long time is a big deal. Your minimization "and yet his is getting counseling" pretty much discounts the fact that it took multiple years, countless attempts at conversation and action, many questions on my side ("what can I do differently?") and finally something changed in the way of agreement to go to counseling. Big success but not without years of prior failure in response.

[Anonymous]

Don't get your hopes up, though, OP. This kind of person will go to a therapist and spend all his time trying to win the therapist over. And you'd be surprised how often it works.