Why is redshirting so rare if it's so advantageous?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think some clarification is needed.

There are obviously differences in cut off dates in different school districts. Redshirting is most common when birthdays are just before the cut off because ordinarily they would be the youngest in the class.

So redshirting is most common in kids with summer birthdays when the cut off is September. It’s most common with fall birthday when the cut off is December.

Have I got that straight?

There isn't any redshirting in areas where the cut-off is September. Parents who redshirt their fall kids in areas with December cut-offs are probably doing it because they agree with the states with September cut-offs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think some clarification is needed.

There are obviously differences in cut off dates in different school districts. Redshirting is most common when birthdays are just before the cut off because ordinarily they would be the youngest in the class.

So redshirting is most common in kids with summer birthdays when the cut off is September. It’s most common with fall birthday when the cut off is December.

Have I got that straight?

There isn't any redshirting in areas where the cut-off is September. Parents who redshirt their fall kids in areas with December cut-offs are probably doing it because they agree with the states with September cut-offs.

No. Redshirting is typically an option for students born within a few months of the cutoff. The closer to the cutoff, the more frequent... the date ranges just shift along with the cutoff date.

For a Dec 31 cutoff, Oct-Dec kids most likely to redshirt, Jul-Sep less common, Jan-Jun very rare.
For a Sep 30 cutoff, Jul-Sep kids most likely to redshirt, Apr-Jun less common, Sep-Mar very rare.

People are generally doing it because either (a) they want to give their kids the perceived long-term advantage of being the oldest kid in the grade, or (b) they just don't think their kid is developmentally ready for K yet. There might be a slight difference in how much redshirting due to reason (b) if you have the Sep cutoff instead of Dec cutoff, but reason (a) applies equally no matter the cutoff date.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote: Why should only the youngest in the year group get to choose the age of their peer group?

What if a the parents of a January born kid in a district with an August cut off decides that they want them to be the very oldest in the room and decide to redshirt.

Let’s let everyone have the right to choose and not a select few.

They could do that already. You just need to have your kid in school by the compulsory age of attendance.

What? If a kids starts schools before the compulsory age of attendance (5) then they would be on the younger side, not the oldest. What I am saying is that you can’t currently start many kid at 6 when they will turn 7 within the school year. Only redshirters begin school at 6.

Link? My daughter is in middle school and we've known a handful of kids with spring birthdays who turned 7 at the end of K, 12 at the end of 5th, etc.

They where redshirted! My point that kids with Fall and Winter birthdays don’t have the same option, they have start school on the September ( or whatever the district policy is) they are 5. They can’t be 6 going on 7 like your spring born redshirted example.

They have the option to green shirt in some cases. Late summer birthdays don't get that option. So, different options are available depending on your birthday. I have a current kindergartener turning 6 early November, I didn't want to start him early or late, he's already in the older 1/3 of the class. That's good enough for me and the vast majority of other parents who don't green shirt or whatever you would call holding back a kid whose birthday is just past the cutoff to start school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think some clarification is needed.

There are obviously differences in cut off dates in different school districts. Redshirting is most common when birthdays are just before the cut off because ordinarily they would be the youngest in the class.

So redshirting is most common in kids with summer birthdays when the cut off is September. It’s most common with fall birthday when the cut off is December.

Have I got that straight?

There isn't any redshirting in areas where the cut-off is September. Parents who redshirt their fall kids in areas with December cut-offs are probably doing it because they agree with the states with September cut-offs.

Um. Do you live in the DC area???

[Anonymous]

We are in DC and my kid was born August 30. Most of his class has now turned 17 and he is only 2 months into being 16. I absolutely regret not keeping him back so that he'd be within a few months of his classmates. Instead, he's almost an entire year younger.

[Anonymous]

That’s very unusual though for most ( over 50%) of a grade to age up in only the first 2 months of school. I remember there being an even distribution through the school year. Every week pretty much a classmate celebrated their birthday.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’m redshirting my July daughter

Ditto. She's 4 and my youngest child and she's not happy about that. She's always the youngest in the class too and she's more immature. Another year of childhood seems like a great gift to give her.

She isn't less mature. You are not comparing her to her actual peers and kids a year younger. You are doing it for her, not you. You aren't giving her an extra year of childhood. You are taking away a year of being an adult and forcing them to continue being a child.

It's not robbing them of a year of adulthood, it's making sure they are as ready and a prepared as they can be to get the most out of their education. It's not a race.

I agree that education isn't a race. You know how you sometimes hear about a 12-or-13-year-old heading off to college? It's the parents of those kids who view education as a race, not the parents of the kids starting college a few weeks shy of their 18th birthdays.

So, if I have a late August vs. late September child/birthday, what exactly is the difference between a month? You may be robbing them of a year of adulthood by forcing them to be kids an extra year when they are 18/adults.

Most people given the choice would likely prefer another year of being a carefree child.

Yes, but they should still have the choice to enter adulthood sooner if that's what they want. Kids who aren't redshirted are more likely to have both options open to them than kids who are redshirted. If a 17-year-old graduating from high school doesn't feel ready for college and doesn't want to rush into adulthood, they can just take a gap year. If, however, a 17-year-old finishing 11th grade is really sick of high school, feels ready for college, and is in a hurry to be an adult, then they don't really have any other choice but to stick out that last year of high school.

What about the 17 year old who struggled through school and was constantly playing catch up? When did he get the choice to delay kindergarten entry until he was as mature as his peers?

He has the chance to change that for college, and suddenly become one of the oldest if he chooses to take the gap year.

But if he struggled in high school and has mediocre grades and didn't perform as well on SAT he has torpedoed a lot of his chances. Do you really not understand how this works? It's too late for your silly gap year to fix the past 12 years.

He can always to to a community college and transfer to a flagship state school there. Besides, even if he's doomed to go to a mediocre college, he can increase his chance of doing well at said college by taking a gap year. Doing well at a mediocre college is better than doing poorly at a mediocre college.

Ok, sure You must be the busy body coworker with no kids to make such asinine comments.

You don't have to take my word that it's possible to transfer to a prestigious college from a community college. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_college

Or you can just redshirt and not take the risk. Because if they still aren't successful, then that's on them.

I feel this is actually a good reason not to redshirt. When something goes wrong in your life, it always feels a lot better if you know it wasn't your fault; that it wasn't because there was anything wrong with you. If a young student does poorly, they should feel better about themselves upon learning that their poor performance was solely because of their age, not because they were dumb. If an old student does poorly, they can't tell themselves such a comforting thing. There was no excuse for their poor performance, and they have to live with the knowledge that this can only mean they are dumb.

[Anonymous]

Teachers look at kids and say, hey, that kid is mature and smart. They don't say, hey, that kid is 6 months older than my class average, they must just be average for their age.

This is the truth, and it's why people hold their kids back. If you don't like it, don't do it. But realize this is exactly what's happening from K-12.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Teachers look at kids and say, hey, that kid is mature and smart. They don't say, hey, that kid is 6 months older than my class average, they must just be average for their age.

This is the truth, and it's why people hold their kids back. If you don't like it, don't do it. But realize this is exactly what's happening from K-12.

Maturity can be such a funny thing. My DD is literally the youngest in her grade, but has always been in the top reading and math groups. All of her peers in those school groups have already had their birthday this year, while she is 10-13 months younger.

In the academic sense we're happy we sent her on time, as she is more challenged. But in other ways it is so so obvious she is younger. Her executive functioning, friendships and interests are really aligned with the grade behind. She doesn't stand out as mature, whereas she would have been a real leader if we'd held her, and even then she wouldn't have been the oldest as there are several kids a few months older than her in the grade behind.

It can be a really hard call for some kids with neither grade being a good fit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That’s very unusual though for most ( over 50%) of a grade to age up in only the first 2 months of school. I remember there being an even distribution through the school year. Every week pretty much a classmate celebrated their birthday.

My daughter in APS has always had about half her class roll up to the next age by the holiday break. We have an end of September cutoff. I think nearly all September and most August birthdays are redshirted, as well as some July boys.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Teachers look at kids and say, hey, that kid is mature and smart. They don't say, hey, that kid is 6 months older than my class average, they must just be average for their age.

This is the truth, and it's why people hold their kids back. If you don't like it, don't do it. But realize this is exactly what's happening from K-12.

I never said anything about impressing teachers. Teachers are human just like everyone else, and therefore, do not always judge objectively. If a young student is doing poorly, it's probably true that none of their teachers will say, "That kid is much younger than my class average. They're not lazy or dumb, just younger." But that kid should be able to gain self-closure in knowing that this is the simple truth after some soul-searching. If an old student is doing poorly, they'll have no such comforting thing to tell themselves. It's also true that teachers won't say "Hey that kid is 6 months older than my class average, they must just be average for their age", but that old student who's excelling is probably going to have a hard time feeling good about themselves knowing that they're excelling, not because they're smarter, but simply because they are older.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teachers look at kids and say, hey, that kid is mature and smart. They don't say, hey, that kid is 6 months older than my class average, they must just be average for their age.

This is the truth, and it's why people hold their kids back. If you don't like it, don't do it. But realize this is exactly what's happening from K-12.

I never said anything about impressing teachers. Teachers are human just like everyone else, and therefore, do not always judge objectively. If a young student is doing poorly, it's probably true that none of their teachers will say, "That kid is much younger than my class average. They're not lazy or dumb, just younger." But that kid should be able to gain self-closure in knowing that this is the simple truth after some soul-searching. If an old student is doing poorly, they'll have no such comforting thing to tell themselves. It's also true that teachers won't say "Hey that kid is 6 months older than my class average, they must just be average for their age", but that old student who's excelling is probably going to have a hard time feeling good about themselves knowing that they're excelling, not because they're smarter, but simply because they are older.

I think if that's how my child looked at their success or lack thereof, I'd be calling a therapist stat. That's not normal.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’m redshirting my July daughter

Ditto. She's 4 and my youngest child and she's not happy about that. She's always the youngest in the class too and she's more immature. Another year of childhood seems like a great gift to give her.

She isn't less mature. You are not comparing her to her actual peers and kids a year younger. You are doing it for her, not you. You aren't giving her an extra year of childhood. You are taking away a year of being an adult and forcing them to continue being a child.

It's not robbing them of a year of adulthood, it's making sure they are as ready and a prepared as they can be to get the most out of their education. It's not a race.

I agree that education isn't a race. You know how you sometimes hear about a 12-or-13-year-old heading off to college? It's the parents of those kids who view education as a race, not the parents of the kids starting college a few weeks shy of their 18th birthdays.

So, if I have a late August vs. late September child/birthday, what exactly is the difference between a month? You may be robbing them of a year of adulthood by forcing them to be kids an extra year when they are 18/adults.

Most people given the choice would likely prefer another year of being a carefree child.

Yes, but they should still have the choice to enter adulthood sooner if that's what they want. Kids who aren't redshirted are more likely to have both options open to them than kids who are redshirted. If a 17-year-old graduating from high school doesn't feel ready for college and doesn't want to rush into adulthood, they can just take a gap year. If, however, a 17-year-old finishing 11th grade is really sick of high school, feels ready for college, and is in a hurry to be an adult, then they don't really have any other choice but to stick out that last year of high school.

What about the 17 year old who struggled through school and was constantly playing catch up? When did he get the choice to delay kindergarten entry until he was as mature as his peers?

He has the chance to change that for college, and suddenly become one of the oldest if he chooses to take the gap year.

But if he struggled in high school and has mediocre grades and didn't perform as well on SAT he has torpedoed a lot of his chances. Do you really not understand how this works? It's too late for your silly gap year to fix the past 12 years.

He can always to to a community college and transfer to a flagship state school there. Besides, even if he's doomed to go to a mediocre college, he can increase his chance of doing well at said college by taking a gap year. Doing well at a mediocre college is better than doing poorly at a mediocre college.

Ok, sure You must be the busy body coworker with no kids to make such asinine comments.

You don't have to take my word that it's possible to transfer to a prestigious college from a community college. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_college

Or you can just redshirt and not take the risk. Because if they still aren't successful, then that's on them.

I feel this is actually a good reason not to redshirt. When something goes wrong in your life, it always feels a lot better if you know it wasn't your fault; that it wasn't because there was anything wrong with you. If a young student does poorly, they should feel better about themselves upon learning that their poor performance was solely because of their age, not because they were dumb. If an old student does poorly, they can't tell themselves such a comforting thing. There was no excuse for their poor performance, and they have to live with the knowledge that this can only mean they are dumb.

You are pretty dumb, what's your excuse?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Why should only the youngest in the year group get to choose the age of their peer group?

What if a the parents of a January born kid in a district with an August cut off decides that they want them to be the very oldest in the room and decide to redshirt.

Let’s let everyone have the right to choose and not a select few.

They could do that already. You just need to have your kid in school by the compulsory age of attendance.

What? If a kids starts schools before the compulsory age of attendance (5) then they would be on the younger side, not the oldest. What I am saying is that you can’t currently start many kid at 6 when they will turn 7 within the school year. Only redshirters begin school at 6.

Because the vast majority of redshirted kids are summer birthdays. They’re 6 for the entire year.

That's not true. The vast majority of redshirted kids are fall birthdays. They're 6 for almost the entire year. Summer kids aren't in danger of starting college at 17, so it wouldn't make any sense to redshirt them.

Depends on where you live. Maryland cutoff is September 1st, so by definition redshirted kids are summer birthdays. My kid was born September 4th, was NOT redshirted, and turned 6 on the second day of kindergarten.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teachers look at kids and say, hey, that kid is mature and smart. They don't say, hey, that kid is 6 months older than my class average, they must just be average for their age.

This is the truth, and it's why people hold their kids back. If you don't like it, don't do it. But realize this is exactly what's happening from K-12.

I never said anything about impressing teachers. Teachers are human just like everyone else, and therefore, do not always judge objectively. If a young student is doing poorly, it's probably true that none of their teachers will say, "That kid is much younger than my class average. They're not lazy or dumb, just younger." But that kid should be able to gain self-closure in knowing that this is the simple truth after some soul-searching. If an old student is doing poorly, they'll have no such comforting thing to tell themselves. It's also true that teachers won't say "Hey that kid is 6 months older than my class average, they must just be average for their age", but that old student who's excelling is probably going to have a hard time feeling good about themselves knowing that they're excelling, not because they're smarter, but simply because they are older.

I really don't think kids get down on themselves for being on the old end of their class if they're excelling. That's only an issue if they're wildly older or held back as older students. It's a made up issue.

Kids who are more mature really do get more opportunities in many classrooms. In virtual learning last year, for example, the teacher would often throw out a question and then take a few responses. She almost always ended by calling on one of three of the "smartest" students so she would get a good answer to her question. It pays off to be one of those students in gaining both confidence and extra attention. Does holding back your kid make them one of those "smart" kids? Not necessarily, but it's far more likely than if the same student is the youngest in their class.