Has Duran gone mad? (APS)

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Don’t get it. if the grocery stores are safe then the managers should be there. And the regional managers should be stopping in periodically for the day. Seems to me that the school board and senior leaders can handle a live meeting every 2 weeks if community spread makes it safe enough to return to school!

It’s been explained repeatedly. If you’re incapable of understanding, we can’t help you.

“Teachers and kids and the lowest paid earners like grocery store clerks and servers should be at work at risk but everyone else should still be able to work at home safely.” We know.

+1. If the School Board said, "Hey, we are meeting virtually because we want to keep community spread as low as possible, and we want the BOS and our national leaders to shut down all non-essential businesses and require telework for everyone who is not an essential worker so that schools can remain open and health systems don't get overrun", that would be one thing. They aren't saying that. They're meeting virtually because THEY don't want to risk exposure to Covid but can't say so because it's terrible optics.

School Board doesn’t need to be in person to do their job effectively. Teachers do.

Disagree. My kids are doing great with virtual learning, thanks to their teachers. I would also disagree that the School Board has been doing an effective job virtually. Maybe they should try meeting in person.

DP. I completely agree with you. Our kids are thriving and making progress with DL. They are quite happy doing DL and not having to deal with the misbehaving idiots who get 90% of the teacher's time because she's trying to keep them in line. Now those kids can't act out in a way that disrupts learning so it is a complete win-win for my kids. Finally!

How are you measuring progress as compared to a traditional school year?

The younger two are learning the exact same thing their older sibling learned in previous years. iReady scores look great. I'm not sure whether they're doing the IAAT, but I expect our oldest child to do well on it if they do. His school sent out a couple sample questions and he had no problem with them.

They're receiving curriculum at the same pace and depth?

I am the "DP" and I agree with the poster talking about her younger two. I am able to measure our kids' against their older siblings. Homework is similar. Tests are similar. Pacing is similar (one kid the order has changed but the pacing is about right). For all the talk about the shortened week I think my kids' teachers are getting more done because they don't have to deal with the behavior problems. I really feel like my kids are learning more than their siblings because of that.

I think it’s the parents of the behavior problem kids who are going crazy right now about the need to open up schools. As a teacher, what I like best about DL is that I don’t have to deal with those kinds of disruptions. I can give more time to the quiet students who are TOO well behaved to demand or seek out help, and so are usually deprived of attention. I am seeing some students flourish in DL and it is heartening.

To me, the big problem with classrooms these days is that a good 10 percent of children have serious behavior problems that no one (including myself) knows how to manage or deal with. The solution for most of us (including their OpenFCPS parents) its avoidance. Try to get them out of the classroom when they have tantrums or bully and harass other children. (Schools these days don’t make that easy because administrators and librarians are trying to avoid the problem, too — they will refuse to “shelter” to the misbehaving exile, and will send him right back to the classroom).

I am really sympathetic to the parents of these children. I don’t assume that it’s their fault that their kids are difficult, but if they can’t handle their children for a full workday, then chances are, other people can’t either. If school weren’t the scotch tape holding so many social programs together on a shoestring budget, it COULD be an institution that would employ behavioral experts who could work out disciplinary plans and routines to be followed by all the adults who supervise him. Unfortunately, schools and classrooms are overcrowded and teachers are responsible for too many children at once to do this.

Your response to me, the PP parent, is very interesting because it buttresses what I am saying. My kids most certainly are thriving. I've posted before on other threads about the fact that two of my kids are foster kids who came to us 2-3-4 years below grade level depending on the subject. They were making some progress from October through March when we were in the in-school learning but they have taken off like rockets in the time since then. The focused learning, the personalized attention, the quiet environment, the ability to take a lot of breaks has been great for them. I love that we can find everything organized and in one place online. It has been really helpful in teaching them executive functioning and self-regulation skills.

I agree with your assessment about the children with behavior problems. I do think that the fact that the kids have behavior problems is the driver for many parents who are wanting to reopen schools. It is very sad for both the kids and the parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:16% of Carlin Springs Elementary chose hybrid. 16%. Return to school isn’t going to do anything for those kids. Pretty much the same at Randolph. So please stop using EL kids as your reason for opening. Especially since APE members are disproportionately from NW Arl.

We aren't making decisions on a school-by-school basis, and Randolph and Carlin Springs aren't the only schools with ELL students -- they're at every school. You are cherry picking subsets of the data because you know the full data doesn't support your position.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I think it’s funny that the folks claiming that the “parents that want to open are the ones with problem kids” are pearl clutching when the “open now crowd” shares info about the mental health impacts to kids. The former is the one that’s appalling.

Anecdata doesn’t craft policy. We do not have stats on mental health impact to kids that can separate out “school did this” from LIVING IN A STRESSFUL PANDEMIC DID THIS. School isn’t the cause of all problems just as it was never the solution to them all too. Or why did so many students have mental health issues during regular school which we were told was (shocker) schools fault then too.

DP. It’s not just “anecdata,” mental health-related ER visits for children are up 24-31% during the pandemic compared to the same period last year. That should worry everyone, even if we disagree on what to do about it.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6945a3.htm

Obviously it’s worrisome. There is NOTHING that says it’s due to school closures. This entire year has been massively stressful on families and kids. People have died. Parents lost jobs. Some kids had to sit at home with family members they have contentious relationships with. ALL hospitalizations are up so it’s really hard to see how this specific data point is definitively “because schools are closed.” It is pretending there is NO larger context for what causes the schools to be closed and how that has impacted every aspect of life

Obviously there's no single factor that accounts for the full increase, but it should at least give cause to consider whether there are changes that can be made to address this issue. The virtual-only advocates basically just want to pretend this trend doesn't exist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your response to me, the PP parent, is very interesting because it buttresses what I am saying. My kids most certainly are thriving. I've posted before on other threads about the fact that two of my kids are foster kids who came to us 2-3-4 years below grade level depending on the subject. They were making some progress from October through March when we were in the in-school learning but they have taken off like rockets in the time since then. The focused learning, the personalized attention, the quiet environment, the ability to take a lot of breaks has been great for them. I love that we can find everything organized and in one place online. It has been really helpful in teaching them executive functioning and self-regulation skills.

I agree with your assessment about the children with behavior problems. I do think that the fact that the kids have behavior problems is the driver for many parents who are wanting to reopen schools. It is very sad for both the kids and the parents.

You must have only elementary students, because this is not true at all at the secondary level.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Don’t get it. if the grocery stores are safe then the managers should be there. And the regional managers should be stopping in periodically for the day. Seems to me that the school board and senior leaders can handle a live meeting every 2 weeks if community spread makes it safe enough to return to school!

It’s been explained repeatedly. If you’re incapable of understanding, we can’t help you.

“Teachers and kids and the lowest paid earners like grocery store clerks and servers should be at work at risk but everyone else should still be able to work at home safely.” We know.

+1. If the School Board said, "Hey, we are meeting virtually because we want to keep community spread as low as possible, and we want the BOS and our national leaders to shut down all non-essential businesses and require telework for everyone who is not an essential worker so that schools can remain open and health systems don't get overrun", that would be one thing. They aren't saying that. They're meeting virtually because THEY don't want to risk exposure to Covid but can't say so because it's terrible optics.

School Board doesn’t need to be in person to do their job effectively. Teachers do.

Disagree. My kids are doing great with virtual learning, thanks to their teachers. I would also disagree that the School Board has been doing an effective job virtually. Maybe they should try meeting in person.

DP. I completely agree with you. Our kids are thriving and making progress with DL. They are quite happy doing DL and not having to deal with the misbehaving idiots who get 90% of the teacher's time because she's trying to keep them in line. Now those kids can't act out in a way that disrupts learning so it is a complete win-win for my kids. Finally!

How are you measuring progress as compared to a traditional school year?

The younger two are learning the exact same thing their older sibling learned in previous years. iReady scores look great. I'm not sure whether they're doing the IAAT, but I expect our oldest child to do well on it if they do. His school sent out a couple sample questions and he had no problem with them.

They're receiving curriculum at the same pace and depth?

I am the "DP" and I agree with the poster talking about her younger two. I am able to measure our kids' against their older siblings. Homework is similar. Tests are similar. Pacing is similar (one kid the order has changed but the pacing is about right). For all the talk about the shortened week I think my kids' teachers are getting more done because they don't have to deal with the behavior problems. I really feel like my kids are learning more than their siblings because of that.

I think it’s the parents of the behavior problem kids who are going crazy right now about the need to open up schools. As a teacher, what I like best about DL is that I don’t have to deal with those kinds of disruptions. I can give more time to the quiet students who are TOO well behaved to demand or seek out help, and so are usually deprived of attention. I am seeing some students flourish in DL and it is heartening.

To me, the big problem with classrooms these days is that a good 10 percent of children have serious behavior problems that no one (including myself) knows how to manage or deal with. The solution for most of us (including their OpenFCPS parents) its avoidance. Try to get them out of the classroom when they have tantrums or bully and harass other children. (Schools these days don’t make that easy because administrators and librarians are trying to avoid the problem, too — they will refuse to “shelter” to the misbehaving exile, and will send him right back to the classroom).

I am really sympathetic to the parents of these children. I don’t assume that it’s their fault that their kids are difficult, but if they can’t handle their children for a full workday, then chances are, other people can’t either. If school weren’t the scotch tape holding so many social programs together on a shoestring budget, it COULD be an institution that would employ behavioral experts who could work out disciplinary plans and routines to be followed by all the adults who supervise him. Unfortunately, schools and classrooms are overcrowded and teachers are responsible for too many children at once to do this.

Your response to me, the PP parent, is very interesting because it buttresses what I am saying. My kids most certainly are thriving. I've posted before on other threads about the fact that two of my kids are foster kids who came to us 2-3-4 years below grade level depending on the subject. They were making some progress from October through March when we were in the in-school learning but they have taken off like rockets in the time since then. The focused learning, the personalized attention, the quiet environment, the ability to take a lot of breaks has been great for them. I love that we can find everything organized and in one place online. It has been really helpful in teaching them executive functioning and self-regulation skills.

I agree with your assessment about the children with behavior problems. I do think that the fact that the kids have behavior problems is the driver for many parents who are wanting to reopen schools. It is very sad for both the kids and the parents.

Stop with the faux concern. You are not as clever as you think you are, it's clear you're just trying to find a more socially acceptable way to insult people whose opinions differ from yours. Trafficking in hateful stereotypes is not a good look.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t get it. if the grocery stores are safe then the managers should be there. And the regional managers should be stopping in periodically for the day. Seems to me that the school board and senior leaders can handle a live meeting every 2 weeks if community spread makes it safe enough to return to school!

It’s been explained repeatedly. If you’re incapable of understanding, we can’t help you.

“Teachers and kids and the lowest paid earners like grocery store clerks and servers should be at work at risk but everyone else should still be able to work at home safely.” We know.

+1. If the School Board said, "Hey, we are meeting virtually because we want to keep community spread as low as possible, and we want the BOS and our national leaders to shut down all non-essential businesses and require telework for everyone who is not an essential worker so that schools can remain open and health systems don't get overrun", that would be one thing. They aren't saying that. They're meeting virtually because THEY don't want to risk exposure to Covid but can't say so because it's terrible optics.

School Board doesn’t need to be in person to do their job effectively. Teachers do.

Disagree. My kids are doing great with virtual learning, thanks to their teachers. I would also disagree that the School Board has been doing an effective job virtually. Maybe they should try meeting in person.

DP. I completely agree with you. Our kids are thriving and making progress with DL. They are quite happy doing DL and not having to deal with the misbehaving idiots who get 90% of the teacher's time because she's trying to keep them in line. Now those kids can't act out in a way that disrupts learning so it is a complete win-win for my kids. Finally!

How are you measuring progress as compared to a traditional school year?

The younger two are learning the exact same thing their older sibling learned in previous years. iReady scores look great. I'm not sure whether they're doing the IAAT, but I expect our oldest child to do well on it if they do. His school sent out a couple sample questions and he had no problem with them.

They're receiving curriculum at the same pace and depth?

I am the "DP" and I agree with the poster talking about her younger two. I am able to measure our kids' against their older siblings. Homework is similar. Tests are similar. Pacing is similar (one kid the order has changed but the pacing is about right). For all the talk about the shortened week I think my kids' teachers are getting more done because they don't have to deal with the behavior problems. I really feel like my kids are learning more than their siblings because of that.

I think it’s the parents of the behavior problem kids who are going crazy right now about the need to open up schools. As a teacher, what I like best about DL is that I don’t have to deal with those kinds of disruptions. I can give more time to the quiet students who are TOO well behaved to demand or seek out help, and so are usually deprived of attention. I am seeing some students flourish in DL and it is heartening.

To me, the big problem with classrooms these days is that a good 10 percent of children have serious behavior problems that no one (including myself) knows how to manage or deal with. The solution for most of us (including their OpenFCPS parents) its avoidance. Try to get them out of the classroom when they have tantrums or bully and harass other children. (Schools these days don’t make that easy because administrators and librarians are trying to avoid the problem, too — they will refuse to “shelter” to the misbehaving exile, and will send him right back to the classroom).

I am really sympathetic to the parents of these children. I don’t assume that it’s their fault that their kids are difficult, but if they can’t handle their children for a full workday, then chances are, other people can’t either. If school weren’t the scotch tape holding so many social programs together on a shoestring budget, it COULD be an institution that would employ behavioral experts who could work out disciplinary plans and routines to be followed by all the adults who supervise him. Unfortunately, schools and classrooms are overcrowded and teachers are responsible for too many children at once to do this.

Your response to me, the PP parent, is very interesting because it buttresses what I am saying. My kids most certainly are thriving. I've posted before on other threads about the fact that two of my kids are foster kids who came to us 2-3-4 years below grade level depending on the subject. They were making some progress from October through March when we were in the in-school learning but they have taken off like rockets in the time since then. The focused learning, the personalized attention, the quiet environment, the ability to take a lot of breaks has been great for them. I love that we can find everything organized and in one place online. It has been really helpful in teaching them executive functioning and self-regulation skills.

I agree with your assessment about the children with behavior problems. I do think that the fact that the kids have behavior problems is the driver for many parents who are wanting to reopen schools. It is very sad for both the kids and the parents.

Congratulations. You win the pandemic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your response to me, the PP parent, is very interesting because it buttresses what I am saying. My kids most certainly are thriving. I've posted before on other threads about the fact that two of my kids are foster kids who came to us 2-3-4 years below grade level depending on the subject. They were making some progress from October through March when we were in the in-school learning but they have taken off like rockets in the time since then. The focused learning, the personalized attention, the quiet environment, the ability to take a lot of breaks has been great for them. I love that we can find everything organized and in one place online. It has been really helpful in teaching them executive functioning and self-regulation skills.

I agree with your assessment about the children with behavior problems. I do think that the fact that the kids have behavior problems is the driver for many parents who are wanting to reopen schools. It is very sad for both the kids and the parents.

You must have only elementary students, because this is not true at all at the secondary level.

+1. There is no way you could say that about APS Middle Schools. Not only are things posted scattershot across multiple platforms, but they get posted intermittently throughout the day. It's hard to believe its this poorly organized.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s funny that the folks claiming that the “parents that want to open are the ones with problem kids” are pearl clutching when the “open now crowd” shares info about the mental health impacts to kids. The former is the one that’s appalling.

Anecdata doesn’t craft policy. We do not have stats on mental health impact to kids that can separate out “school did this” from LIVING IN A STRESSFUL PANDEMIC DID THIS. School isn’t the cause of all problems just as it was never the solution to them all too. Or why did so many students have mental health issues during regular school which we were told was (shocker) schools fault then too.

DP. It’s not just “anecdata,” mental health-related ER visits for children are up 24-31% during the pandemic compared to the same period last year. That should worry everyone, even if we disagree on what to do about it.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6945a3.htm

Obviously it’s worrisome. There is NOTHING that says it’s due to school closures. This entire year has been massively stressful on families and kids. People have died. Parents lost jobs. Some kids had to sit at home with family members they have contentious relationships with. ALL hospitalizations are up so it’s really hard to see how this specific data point is definitively “because schools are closed.” It is pretending there is NO larger context for what causes the schools to be closed and how that has impacted every aspect of life

Obviously there's no single factor that accounts for the full increase, but it should at least give cause to consider whether there are changes that can be made to address this issue. The virtual-only advocates basically just want to pretend this trend doesn't exist.

I have never seen a “virtual only” advocate. I see a lot of “in person when it’s safe.” It is arguably not in the peak when both risk levels are at their highest risk levels and without teachers vaccinated yet. Now what have I seen? “In person NOW” and they are the reason everyone gets to take on the risk of returning in January.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is insightful. Maybe it explains the massive disconnect from parents. Parents with generally attentive and enthusiastic students think this is tolerable til it is safer. Parents of disruptive , in attentive students think it’s a disaster.l and worth the risks. Insightful. But doesn’t change the fact that teachers have no say at all and have the greatest risks. Can we wait til March to bring them back for goodness sake. At least the ones in middle and high who will be exposed to 50+ kids per day in hybrid.

This is such a false generalization, you obviously are not engaging in good faith here.

If you want an obvious counter example, take a child with inattentive ADHD. Not disruptive to the class, not taking away from teaching time, just needs the occasional nudge to get back on task when the teacher can see the child’s mind is wandering. That’s a lot harder to detect through distance learning so that child, while still not being disruptive, checks out on an entire lesson without the teacher realizing it and misses all of the content. That chicks isn’t learning effectively during distance learning.

Not that I expect you to care, because you seem to have little concern for students with special needs. Or English language learners. Or minority students. All groups that are seeing disproportionate learning loss during distance learning. Your child is doing fine and you could continue with distance learning for the rest of the year regardless of what other students do. But you still don’t want anyone else to have something different, no matter how much they may need it.

No, it’s opposite. All those students you claim *I* don’t care about? Their families chose DL in overwhelming numbers. YOU are the one using them for your own agenda which is getting your kid in school. And you have that right. But don’t use other people’s kids as pawns when they don’t want them in the buildings because it’s unsafe.

They did not choose DL in "overwhelming" numbers, you are flat-out lying about the data. Among Level 2 families, here is the data from the most recent round of selections:

Special education students: 40% chose virtual; 49% specifically chose hybrid; 11% did not respond and will be placed in hybrid (total of 60% hybrid)
ELL: 50% chose virtual; 41% specifically chose hybrid; 9% did not respond and will be placed in hybrid (total of 50% hybrid)
Economically disadvantaged: 46% chose virtual; 45% specifically chose hybrid; 9% did not respond and will be placed in hybrid (total of 54% hybrid)

Source: https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/arlington/Board.nsf/files/BV3TQH6ECFC8/$file/D-1%20School%20Year%202020-21%20Update%20110520%20Presentation.pdf

The data for Level 3 families is very similar:

Special education students: 39% chose virtual; 49% specifically chose hybrid; 12% did not respond and will be placed in hybrid (total of 61% hybrid)
ELL: 44% chose virtual; 41% specifically chose hybrid; 15% did not respond and will be placed in hybrid (total of 56% hybrid)
Economically disadvantaged: 46% chose virtual; 39% specifically chose hybrid; 15% did not respond and will be placed in hybrid (total of 54% hybrid)

Source: https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/arlington/Board.nsf/files/BWDM2N592534/$file/D-1%20School%20Year%202020-21%20Update%20121720.pdf

You can see there is a very balanced split in preference here for all of these groups. What I want is to give those parents options, so they can choose the learning method that they believe will be best for their children based on their own individual needs. What you want is to impose your preferred delivery model onto everyone, regardless of whether it's working for them or not. Do not pretend you are looking out for them, because you simply are not. Period.

Parents responded to the survey when the proposed metrics were very different. I would be curious what the breakdown is now. I chose hybrid and will not send my kid into the building in Jan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is insightful. Maybe it explains the massive disconnect from parents. Parents with generally attentive and enthusiastic students think this is tolerable til it is safer. Parents of disruptive , in attentive students think it’s a disaster.l and worth the risks. Insightful. But doesn’t change the fact that teachers have no say at all and have the greatest risks. Can we wait til March to bring them back for goodness sake. At least the ones in middle and high who will be exposed to 50+ kids per day in hybrid.

This is such a false generalization, you obviously are not engaging in good faith here.

If you want an obvious counter example, take a child with inattentive ADHD. Not disruptive to the class, not taking away from teaching time, just needs the occasional nudge to get back on task when the teacher can see the child’s mind is wandering. That’s a lot harder to detect through distance learning so that child, while still not being disruptive, checks out on an entire lesson without the teacher realizing it and misses all of the content. That chicks isn’t learning effectively during distance learning.

Not that I expect you to care, because you seem to have little concern for students with special needs. Or English language learners. Or minority students. All groups that are seeing disproportionate learning loss during distance learning. Your child is doing fine and you could continue with distance learning for the rest of the year regardless of what other students do. But you still don’t want anyone else to have something different, no matter how much they may need it.

No, it’s opposite. All those students you claim *I* don’t care about? Their families chose DL in overwhelming numbers. YOU are the one using them for your own agenda which is getting your kid in school. And you have that right. But don’t use other people’s kids as pawns when they don’t want them in the buildings because it’s unsafe.

They did not choose DL in "overwhelming" numbers, you are flat-out lying about the data. Among Level 2 families, here is the data from the most recent round of selections:

Special education students: 40% chose virtual; 49% specifically chose hybrid; 11% did not respond and will be placed in hybrid (total of 60% hybrid)
ELL: 50% chose virtual; 41% specifically chose hybrid; 9% did not respond and will be placed in hybrid (total of 50% hybrid)
Economically disadvantaged: 46% chose virtual; 45% specifically chose hybrid; 9% did not respond and will be placed in hybrid (total of 54% hybrid)

Source: https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/arlington/Board.nsf/files/BV3TQH6ECFC8/$file/D-1%20School%20Year%202020-21%20Update%20110520%20Presentation.pdf

The data for Level 3 families is very similar:

Special education students: 39% chose virtual; 49% specifically chose hybrid; 12% did not respond and will be placed in hybrid (total of 61% hybrid)
ELL: 44% chose virtual; 41% specifically chose hybrid; 15% did not respond and will be placed in hybrid (total of 56% hybrid)
Economically disadvantaged: 46% chose virtual; 39% specifically chose hybrid; 15% did not respond and will be placed in hybrid (total of 54% hybrid)

Source: https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/arlington/Board.nsf/files/BWDM2N592534/$file/D-1%20School%20Year%202020-21%20Update%20121720.pdf

You can see there is a very balanced split in preference here for all of these groups. What I want is to give those parents options, so they can choose the learning method that they believe will be best for their children based on their own individual needs. What you want is to impose your preferred delivery model onto everyone, regardless of whether it's working for them or not. Do not pretend you are looking out for them, because you simply are not. Period.

Parents responded to the survey when the proposed metrics were very different. I would be curious what the breakdown is now. I chose hybrid and will not send my kid into the building in Jan.

And maybe some people changed their minds after seeing their kids' DIBELS scores. Or after finding out that their secondary students will still have to take SOLs this spring. Or will change their minds after seeing their kids' second semester grades. We can play this game all day long, but neither of us has evidence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is insightful. Maybe it explains the massive disconnect from parents. Parents with generally attentive and enthusiastic students think this is tolerable til it is safer. Parents of disruptive , in attentive students think it’s a disaster.l and worth the risks. Insightful. But doesn’t change the fact that teachers have no say at all and have the greatest risks. Can we wait til March to bring them back for goodness sake. At least the ones in middle and high who will be exposed to 50+ kids per day in hybrid.

This is such a false generalization, you obviously are not engaging in good faith here.

If you want an obvious counter example, take a child with inattentive ADHD. Not disruptive to the class, not taking away from teaching time, just needs the occasional nudge to get back on task when the teacher can see the child’s mind is wandering. That’s a lot harder to detect through distance learning so that child, while still not being disruptive, checks out on an entire lesson without the teacher realizing it and misses all of the content. That chicks isn’t learning effectively during distance learning.

Not that I expect you to care, because you seem to have little concern for students with special needs. Or English language learners. Or minority students. All groups that are seeing disproportionate learning loss during distance learning. Your child is doing fine and you could continue with distance learning for the rest of the year regardless of what other students do. But you still don’t want anyone else to have something different, no matter how much they may need it.

No, it’s opposite. All those students you claim *I* don’t care about? Their families chose DL in overwhelming numbers. YOU are the one using them for your own agenda which is getting your kid in school. And you have that right. But don’t use other people’s kids as pawns when they don’t want them in the buildings because it’s unsafe.

They did not choose DL in "overwhelming" numbers, you are flat-out lying about the data. Among Level 2 families, here is the data from the most recent round of selections:

Special education students: 40% chose virtual; 49% specifically chose hybrid; 11% did not respond and will be placed in hybrid (total of 60% hybrid)
ELL: 50% chose virtual; 41% specifically chose hybrid; 9% did not respond and will be placed in hybrid (total of 50% hybrid)
Economically disadvantaged: 46% chose virtual; 45% specifically chose hybrid; 9% did not respond and will be placed in hybrid (total of 54% hybrid)

Source: https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/arlington/Board.nsf/files/BV3TQH6ECFC8/$file/D-1%20School%20Year%202020-21%20Update%20110520%20Presentation.pdf

The data for Level 3 families is very similar:

Special education students: 39% chose virtual; 49% specifically chose hybrid; 12% did not respond and will be placed in hybrid (total of 61% hybrid)
ELL: 44% chose virtual; 41% specifically chose hybrid; 15% did not respond and will be placed in hybrid (total of 56% hybrid)
Economically disadvantaged: 46% chose virtual; 39% specifically chose hybrid; 15% did not respond and will be placed in hybrid (total of 54% hybrid)

Source: https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/arlington/Board.nsf/files/BWDM2N592534/$file/D-1%20School%20Year%202020-21%20Update%20121720.pdf

You can see there is a very balanced split in preference here for all of these groups. What I want is to give those parents options, so they can choose the learning method that they believe will be best for their children based on their own individual needs. What you want is to impose your preferred delivery model onto everyone, regardless of whether it's working for them or not. Do not pretend you are looking out for them, because you simply are not. Period.

Parents responded to the survey when the proposed metrics were very different. I would be curious what the breakdown is now. I chose hybrid and will not send my kid into the building in Jan.

And maybe some people changed their minds after seeing their kids' DIBELS scores. Or after finding out that their secondary students will still have to take SOLs this spring. Or will change their minds after seeing their kids' second semester grades. We can play this game all day long, but neither of us has evidence.

I'm not a PP and I never said anything about evidence. And I agree it could flip either way. Someone presented percentages. I just said I'm curious what they would look like now. That's all.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Don’t get it. if the grocery stores are safe then the managers should be there. And the regional managers should be stopping in periodically for the day. Seems to me that the school board and senior leaders can handle a live meeting every 2 weeks if community spread makes it safe enough to return to school!

It’s been explained repeatedly. If you’re incapable of understanding, we can’t help you.

“Teachers and kids and the lowest paid earners like grocery store clerks and servers should be at work at risk but everyone else should still be able to work at home safely.” We know.

+1. If the School Board said, "Hey, we are meeting virtually because we want to keep community spread as low as possible, and we want the BOS and our national leaders to shut down all non-essential businesses and require telework for everyone who is not an essential worker so that schools can remain open and health systems don't get overrun", that would be one thing. They aren't saying that. They're meeting virtually because THEY don't want to risk exposure to Covid but can't say so because it's terrible optics.

School Board doesn’t need to be in person to do their job effectively. Teachers do.

Disagree. My kids are doing great with virtual learning, thanks to their teachers. I would also disagree that the School Board has been doing an effective job virtually. Maybe they should try meeting in person.

DP. I completely agree with you. Our kids are thriving and making progress with DL. They are quite happy doing DL and not having to deal with the misbehaving idiots who get 90% of the teacher's time because she's trying to keep them in line. Now those kids can't act out in a way that disrupts learning so it is a complete win-win for my kids. Finally!

How are you measuring progress as compared to a traditional school year?

The younger two are learning the exact same thing their older sibling learned in previous years. iReady scores look great. I'm not sure whether they're doing the IAAT, but I expect our oldest child to do well on it if they do. His school sent out a couple sample questions and he had no problem with them.

They're receiving curriculum at the same pace and depth?

I am the "DP" and I agree with the poster talking about her younger two. I am able to measure our kids' against their older siblings. Homework is similar. Tests are similar. Pacing is similar (one kid the order has changed but the pacing is about right). For all the talk about the shortened week I think my kids' teachers are getting more done because they don't have to deal with the behavior problems. I really feel like my kids are learning more than their siblings because of that.

I think it’s the parents of the behavior problem kids who are going crazy right now about the need to open up schools. As a teacher, what I like best about DL is that I don’t have to deal with those kinds of disruptions. I can give more time to the quiet students who are TOO well behaved to demand or seek out help, and so are usually deprived of attention. I am seeing some students flourish in DL and it is heartening.

To me, the big problem with classrooms these days is that a good 10 percent of children have serious behavior problems that no one (including myself) knows how to manage or deal with. The solution for most of us (including their OpenFCPS parents) its avoidance. Try to get them out of the classroom when they have tantrums or bully and harass other children. (Schools these days don’t make that easy because administrators and librarians are trying to avoid the problem, too — they will refuse to “shelter” to the misbehaving exile, and will send him right back to the classroom).

I am really sympathetic to the parents of these children. I don’t assume that it’s their fault that their kids are difficult, but if they can’t handle their children for a full workday, then chances are, other people can’t either. If school weren’t the scotch tape holding so many social programs together on a shoestring budget, it COULD be an institution that would employ behavioral experts who could work out disciplinary plans and routines to be followed by all the adults who supervise him. Unfortunately, schools and classrooms are overcrowded and teachers are responsible for too many children at once to do this.

Your response to me, the PP parent, is very interesting because it buttresses what I am saying. My kids most certainly are thriving. I've posted before on other threads about the fact that two of my kids are foster kids who came to us 2-3-4 years below grade level depending on the subject. They were making some progress from October through March when we were in the in-school learning but they have taken off like rockets in the time since then. The focused learning, the personalized attention, the quiet environment, the ability to take a lot of breaks has been great for them. I love that we can find everything organized and in one place online. It has been really helpful in teaching them executive functioning and self-regulation skills.

I agree with your assessment about the children with behavior problems. I do think that the fact that the kids have behavior problems is the driver for many parents who are wanting to reopen schools. It is very sad for both the kids and the parents.

Congratulations. You win the pandemic.

Why would you be nasty about this mom’s foster kids doing well and thriving? That is very petty.

[Anonymous]

Has there actually been info to suggest that APS will reopen any time soon? I know the Duran email that said they'd send more information in January, but I didn't necessarily construe that to say that hybrid will happen anytime soon.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Don’t get it. if the grocery stores are safe then the managers should be there. And the regional managers should be stopping in periodically for the day. Seems to me that the school board and senior leaders can handle a live meeting every 2 weeks if community spread makes it safe enough to return to school!

It’s been explained repeatedly. If you’re incapable of understanding, we can’t help you.

“Teachers and kids and the lowest paid earners like grocery store clerks and servers should be at work at risk but everyone else should still be able to work at home safely.” We know.

+1. If the School Board said, "Hey, we are meeting virtually because we want to keep community spread as low as possible, and we want the BOS and our national leaders to shut down all non-essential businesses and require telework for everyone who is not an essential worker so that schools can remain open and health systems don't get overrun", that would be one thing. They aren't saying that. They're meeting virtually because THEY don't want to risk exposure to Covid but can't say so because it's terrible optics.

School Board doesn’t need to be in person to do their job effectively. Teachers do.

Disagree. My kids are doing great with virtual learning, thanks to their teachers. I would also disagree that the School Board has been doing an effective job virtually. Maybe they should try meeting in person.

DP. I completely agree with you. Our kids are thriving and making progress with DL. They are quite happy doing DL and not having to deal with the misbehaving idiots who get 90% of the teacher's time because she's trying to keep them in line. Now those kids can't act out in a way that disrupts learning so it is a complete win-win for my kids. Finally!

How are you measuring progress as compared to a traditional school year?

The younger two are learning the exact same thing their older sibling learned in previous years. iReady scores look great. I'm not sure whether they're doing the IAAT, but I expect our oldest child to do well on it if they do. His school sent out a couple sample questions and he had no problem with them.

They're receiving curriculum at the same pace and depth?

I am the "DP" and I agree with the poster talking about her younger two. I am able to measure our kids' against their older siblings. Homework is similar. Tests are similar. Pacing is similar (one kid the order has changed but the pacing is about right). For all the talk about the shortened week I think my kids' teachers are getting more done because they don't have to deal with the behavior problems. I really feel like my kids are learning more than their siblings because of that.

I think it’s the parents of the behavior problem kids who are going crazy right now about the need to open up schools. As a teacher, what I like best about DL is that I don’t have to deal with those kinds of disruptions. I can give more time to the quiet students who are TOO well behaved to demand or seek out help, and so are usually deprived of attention. I am seeing some students flourish in DL and it is heartening.

To me, the big problem with classrooms these days is that a good 10 percent of children have serious behavior problems that no one (including myself) knows how to manage or deal with. The solution for most of us (including their OpenFCPS parents) its avoidance. Try to get them out of the classroom when they have tantrums or bully and harass other children. (Schools these days don’t make that easy because administrators and librarians are trying to avoid the problem, too — they will refuse to “shelter” to the misbehaving exile, and will send him right back to the classroom).

I am really sympathetic to the parents of these children. I don’t assume that it’s their fault that their kids are difficult, but if they can’t handle their children for a full workday, then chances are, other people can’t either. If school weren’t the scotch tape holding so many social programs together on a shoestring budget, it COULD be an institution that would employ behavioral experts who could work out disciplinary plans and routines to be followed by all the adults who supervise him. Unfortunately, schools and classrooms are overcrowded and teachers are responsible for too many children at once to do this.

Your response to me, the PP parent, is very interesting because it buttresses what I am saying. My kids most certainly are thriving. I've posted before on other threads about the fact that two of my kids are foster kids who came to us 2-3-4 years below grade level depending on the subject. They were making some progress from October through March when we were in the in-school learning but they have taken off like rockets in the time since then. The focused learning, the personalized attention, the quiet environment, the ability to take a lot of breaks has been great for them. I love that we can find everything organized and in one place online. It has been really helpful in teaching them executive functioning and self-regulation skills.

I agree with your assessment about the children with behavior problems. I do think that the fact that the kids have behavior problems is the driver for many parents who are wanting to reopen schools. It is very sad for both the kids and the parents.

Congratulations. You win the pandemic.

Why would you be nasty about this mom’s foster kids doing well and thriving? That is very petty.

I’m a new poster. I chucked at the “congratulations” post. Fact is, foster mom insulted everyone who has struggled with virtual learning. We are struggling because I’m a single mom to 2 elementary school kids who has to work—not because my kids have behavioral problems. BTW, I’m not “open schools” no matter what, but I do think schools should reopen when teachers get the vaccine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Has there actually been info to suggest that APS will reopen any time soon? I know the Duran email that said they'd send more information in January, but I didn't necessarily construe that to say that hybrid will happen anytime soon.

Yes- principals met with Duran, then staff were informed right before break. Things could have changed since then but.... that was just a week ago.