the Key/ASFS building switch...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s official! They are moving the science lab. Praise Jesus.

I just read that on arl news now.

If ASFS were still a semi-option program, they could probably justify hoarding a $200k facility perk that was privately funded, with the rationale that everyone in the county could theoretically seek admission to that school. As a strictly neighborhood school, a $200k perk not made available to other elementary schools starts to feel very unequal. I wonder if the board has fully considered the legal implications of this.

You are welcome to fund a special lab for your school. Find corporate sponsors, etc.

Or just whine about it when other people took the effort to do it at their school.

I’m pro swap and don’t care about the lab, but this is a pretty weak argument considering most of the funding for that lab came from families who are no longer even at the school.

Not true but I'm guessing you didn't contribute if you are unaware that many contributors are still at the school. I contributed and I live closer to Key than ASFS and I do not support the swap. I can see through this plan and I fully realize we are all going to end up with crappier programs as a result of these moves. It took years to build what we have at ASFS (and would imagine the same holds for Key) and that is not going to be recreated any time during my children's time. I've had older ones go through ASFS and we value the program enough to know it needs to stay put in order to preserve what we have and not spend years trying to rebuild. However, you do raise interesting point about many of these people that aps is so concerned about appeasing. Many will be gone by the time any of this actually happens.

But APS doesn't consider your school a program. They didn't give you program status. You're just a neighborhood school. Swap or no swap, they need that space for classrooms, so the lab is going away.

[Anonymous]

There is no “program” at asfs. I might be giving away who I am here, but I have a middle schooler and a couple of younger kids. The school today is very different from where it was ten years ago. There are no science songs being sung in kindergarten. A lot of the veteran teachers who had been there for decades have left in the past two years. The teacher turn over at that school is really ridiculous, I think 20 teachers left last year. My younger kids are not getting any sort of extra science exposure that is meaningful enough for the amount of anger people are expressing here. The program is so crappy right now that I can’t imagine them trying to say it could get worse. My third grader doesn’t know what a simple machine is, she can’t list the steps in the scientific method. It’s not stem or steam or anything beyond a vanilla elementary school.
I was there when they made the big push to remodel investigation station. At the time people thought it was strange and over the top, but ms b pushed extensively for it. She’s the one who sent out all those fundraising emails. Based off of other people’s comments here, the push makes sense since she was likely getting pressure to convert the lab to classrooms. If that’s true, it’s really despicable that she was allowed to do that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is no “program” at asfs. I might be giving away who I am here, but I have a middle schooler and a couple of younger kids. The school today is very different from where it was ten years ago. There are no science songs being sung in kindergarten. A lot of the veteran teachers who had been there for decades have left in the past two years. The teacher turn over at that school is really ridiculous, I think 20 teachers left last year. My younger kids are not getting any sort of extra science exposure that is meaningful enough for the amount of anger people are expressing here. The program is so crappy right now that I can’t imagine them trying to say it could get worse. My third grader doesn’t know what a simple machine is, she can’t list the steps in the scientific method. It’s not stem or steam or anything beyond a vanilla elementary school.
I was there when they made the big push to remodel investigation station. At the time people thought it was strange and over the top, but ms b pushed extensively for it. She’s the one who sent out all those fundraising emails. Based off of other people’s comments here, the push makes sense since she was likely getting pressure to convert the lab to classrooms. If that’s true, it’s really despicable that she was allowed to do that.

If being a “vanilla elementary school” means ASFS is now “crappy,” maybe instead of focusing so much on ASFS’s program, we should put whatever money is available for things like moving a science lab into elevating the programs in all of the “crappy” “vanilla elementary schools” instead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s official! They are moving the science lab. Praise Jesus.

I just read that on arl news now.

If ASFS were still a semi-option program, they could probably justify hoarding a $200k facility perk that was privately funded, with the rationale that everyone in the county could theoretically seek admission to that school. As a strictly neighborhood school, a $200k perk not made available to other elementary schools starts to feel very unequal. I wonder if the board has fully considered the legal implications of this.

You are welcome to fund a special lab for your school. Find corporate sponsors, etc.

Or just whine about it when other people took the effort to do it at their school.

I’m pro swap and don’t care about the lab, but this is a pretty weak argument considering most of the funding for that lab came from families who are no longer even at the school.

Not true but I'm guessing you didn't contribute if you are unaware that many contributors are still at the school. I contributed and I live closer to Key than ASFS and I do not support the swap. I can see through this plan and I fully realize we are all going to end up with crappier programs as a result of these moves. It took years to build what we have at ASFS (and would imagine the same holds for Key) and that is not going to be recreated any time during my children's time. I've had older ones go through ASFS and we value the program enough to know it needs to stay put in order to preserve what we have and not spend years trying to rebuild. However, you do raise interesting point about many of these people that aps is so concerned about appeasing. Many will be gone by the time any of this actually happens.

How does the building have anything to do with this? What makes a school is the teachers, leadership, curriculum, student population. Those are staying the same for both schools. The alternative is to keep ASFS where it is and draw new boundaries so you have a completely different student population. That seems lot more disruptive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is no “program” at asfs. I might be giving away who I am here, but I have a middle schooler and a couple of younger kids. The school today is very different from where it was ten years ago. There are no science songs being sung in kindergarten. A lot of the veteran teachers who had been there for decades have left in the past two years. The teacher turn over at that school is really ridiculous, I think 20 teachers left last year. My younger kids are not getting any sort of extra science exposure that is meaningful enough for the amount of anger people are expressing here. The program is so crappy right now that I can’t imagine them trying to say it could get worse. My third grader doesn’t know what a simple machine is, she can’t list the steps in the scientific method. It’s not stem or steam or anything beyond a vanilla elementary school.
I was there when they made the big push to remodel investigation station. At the time people thought it was strange and over the top, but ms b pushed extensively for it. She’s the one who sent out all those fundraising emails. Based off of other people’s comments here, the push makes sense since she was likely getting pressure to convert the lab to classrooms. If that’s true, it’s really despicable that she was allowed to do that.

We agree to disagree on this one. My kids have all had science-rich experiences (middle schoolers and younger ones the same) much different than what you describe. I was also there as well and I do not recall people thinking anything was strange. We were rallying around common goals and honoring a dear friend in the process. Your accusations posted here are hurtful for people and you also neglect to acknowledge how insensitive your comments are. There are people who could loose jobs but yet you only care about your child and throwing accusations around. Please think before you post public comments like this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Discovery got a new playground because it was a NEW school. Just like Fleet will get a new playground. APS replaces playgrounds about every 20 years.

The slide was a stupid gimmick proposed by the architects and isn’t even used!

Discovery is a perfect example of inequities but no one cares about that one. They only care about what Science Focus has because of capacity challenges. Why on earth they didn't make that one an option school is beyond me. Is it right that some schools like Discovery have 5x the playground space than other schools (all much nicer and newer), 2 brand new huge state of the art Art Rooms? No, it's not equitable but no one bothers to go after their "nice things" because the school was built in an area where we do not need seats. Those short-sided approaches have to stop. We can't afford to keep making school siting mistakes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no “program” at asfs. I might be giving away who I am here, but I have a middle schooler and a couple of younger kids. The school today is very different from where it was ten years ago. There are no science songs being sung in kindergarten. A lot of the veteran teachers who had been there for decades have left in the past two years. The teacher turn over at that school is really ridiculous, I think 20 teachers left last year. My younger kids are not getting any sort of extra science exposure that is meaningful enough for the amount of anger people are expressing here. The program is so crappy right now that I can’t imagine them trying to say it could get worse. My third grader doesn’t know what a simple machine is, she can’t list the steps in the scientific method. It’s not stem or steam or anything beyond a vanilla elementary school.
I was there when they made the big push to remodel investigation station. At the time people thought it was strange and over the top, but ms b pushed extensively for it. She’s the one who sent out all those fundraising emails. Based off of other people’s comments here, the push makes sense since she was likely getting pressure to convert the lab to classrooms. If that’s true, it’s really despicable that she was allowed to do that.

If being a “vanilla elementary school” means ASFS is now “crappy,” maybe instead of focusing so much on ASFS’s program, we should put whatever money is available for things like moving a science lab into elevating the programs in all of the “crappy” “vanilla elementary schools” instead.

Then why are you fighting so hard? If it's so crappy, you should be over the moon for boundary changes. Odd how your message shifts depending on the way the APS wind is blowing these days. Wait til they change their minds again and we'll see you claiming how amazing it is that you couldn't possibly go to any other school than that one.

[Anonymous]

Not at Discovery. But I imagine they have to spread the structures around because they don't have a ton of space around the building. Kids can't congregate on a single playground like they can at other schools. But whatever. This entire discussion is petty in my opinion. If you're worried about inequality you should monitor the building plans for NEW schools like Fleet and Reed. That is something you can do something about. Not school already built.

[Anonymous]

Why does this thread even exist right now? I thought APS was doing boundary changes for SA now and focusing the Key/Science Focus mess later?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no “program” at asfs. I might be giving away who I am here, but I have a middle schooler and a couple of younger kids. The school today is very different from where it was ten years ago. There are no science songs being sung in kindergarten. A lot of the veteran teachers who had been there for decades have left in the past two years. The teacher turn over at that school is really ridiculous, I think 20 teachers left last year. My younger kids are not getting any sort of extra science exposure that is meaningful enough for the amount of anger people are expressing here. The program is so crappy right now that I can’t imagine them trying to say it could get worse. My third grader doesn’t know what a simple machine is, she can’t list the steps in the scientific method. It’s not stem or steam or anything beyond a vanilla elementary school.
I was there when they made the big push to remodel investigation station. At the time people thought it was strange and over the top, but ms b pushed extensively for it. She’s the one who sent out all those fundraising emails. Based off of other people’s comments here, the push makes sense since she was likely getting pressure to convert the lab to classrooms. If that’s true, it’s really despicable that she was allowed to do that.

If being a “vanilla elementary school” means ASFS is now “crappy,” maybe instead of focusing so much on ASFS’s program, we should put whatever money is available for things like moving a science lab into elevating the programs in all of the “crappy” “vanilla elementary schools” instead.

Then why are you fighting so hard? If it's so crappy, you should be over the moon for boundary changes. Odd how your message shifts depending on the way the APS wind is blowing these days. Wait til they change their minds again and we'll see you claiming how amazing it is that you couldn't possibly go to any other school than that one.

Im not fighting hard to stay at the school because I care about science. Asfs was always a normal school, I’m just calling out the posters here talking about it’s “program” that the program isn’t what a lot of people would consider a stem or science focused program. It’s been diluted for years now, which has a lot to do with the fact that a lot of teachers have left in the past couple of years. Even if it stays where it is, there’s a good chance that there won’t be much of a science focus in a few years as it becomes a true neighborhood school with no more transfers.
I’m fighting because key and asfs are the only two elementary school sites I can walk to. I live in an urban neighborhood, and would like to keep being able to walk to school.
The anger on this board is ridiculous. It’s an echo chamber for the same angry people. There haven’t been new developments for months. Why are we still talking about this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s official! They are moving the science lab. Praise Jesus.

I just read that on arl news now.

If ASFS were still a semi-option program, they could probably justify hoarding a $200k facility perk that was privately funded, with the rationale that everyone in the county could theoretically seek admission to that school. As a strictly neighborhood school, a $200k perk not made available to other elementary schools starts to feel very unequal. I wonder if the board has fully considered the legal implications of this.

You are welcome to fund a special lab for your school. Find corporate sponsors, etc.

Or just whine about it when other people took the effort to do it at their school.

I’m pro swap and don’t care about the lab, but this is a pretty weak argument considering most of the funding for that lab came from families who are no longer even at the school.

Not true but I'm guessing you didn't contribute if you are unaware that many contributors are still at the school. I contributed and I live closer to Key than ASFS and I do not support the swap. I can see through this plan and I fully realize we are all going to end up with crappier programs as a result of these moves. It took years to build what we have at ASFS (and would imagine the same holds for Key) and that is not going to be recreated any time during my children's time. I've had older ones go through ASFS and we value the program enough to know it needs to stay put in order to preserve what we have and not spend years trying to rebuild. However, you do raise interesting point about many of these people that aps is so concerned about appeasing. Many will be gone by the time any of this actually happens.

How does the building have anything to do with this? What makes a school is the teachers, leadership, curriculum, student population. Those are staying the same for both schools. The alternative is to keep ASFS where it is and draw new boundaries so you have a completely different student population. That seems lot more disruptive.

Disruptive for who? The teachers and faculty are used to getting a new crop of students every year, do you think it really matters if a second grade teacher sees her former students in the hallway on occasion? As for leadership, if you mean the PTA and volunteers, there has always been (and continues to be) a good mix of neighborhood/transfer parents and Key zone parents who run most of the events. I'm sure whatever happens with the location of the school, there will be others to take the roles that become vacant. As for the curriculum, yes, there will most certainly be a disruption because some of the fixtures that the teachers rely on for their lessons (the pond, the science lab, the habitat out front, etc.) will definitely be eliminated or changed once the move occurs. And the students? Yes, most of the students live in Key's old boundaries. Even if ASFS stays put, many of those kids would still go to ASFS because there isn't really anywhere else to send them. (No, not all of Rosslyn would automatically be dumped into Taylor!). There are reasonable ways to draw a boundary around ASFS that includes at least half the current population. But those types of boundaries weren't really explored by APS. Rather, the move appears to be a way to either to appease the ASFS influencers who want the school near them, and/or APS' grand plan to eliminate NA's immersion program (or give it a reason to move to SA) and get rid of the science lab that is taking up much needed permanent seat space.

I'm not saying there aren't some upsides for making the move, but those upsides will only benefit a limited number of families. Seems like a huge expense, headache, and (at least a) perceived inequity for the rest of the county-- the taxpayers have to pay for this move and all the resources and time that will be spent over the next few years to make it happen. What would happen if Murphy singled out and gave special consideration to every school community the way he did ASFS (and in the converse, gave no consideration to Key)? All this "swap decision" did was tell everyone in Arlington that, if you bitch enough, bitch loud, rally and inundate APS with enough letters, request meetings, etc., they will cave to a select group of parents. Seriously, read these threads-- no one at Key wants the move, most of ASFS (including all the staff and faculty) don't want the move but yet the move is happening to "keep the community together" (you know, the community that is currently at war with each other). Every taxpayer should be up in arms that they have to foot the bill for this just because, god forbid, they draw new boundaries around the ASFS building.

[Anonymous]

We're still talking about this because come January, the ASFS/Key parents will be up in arms again (if they aren't already) and basically consume all of APS' time on this issue. All APS had to do was say hey, we're not going to touch the boundaries until 2020 when we get ready for Reed (even though that means ASFS sits outside its attendance zone for a few years), and then engage in meaningful data crunching/boundary options, etc. Instead, Murphy laid down the law hoping to settle folks down so they could get through the SA process. Such approach, though, clearly backfired. Folks who didn't or shouldn't care about what happens at Key and ASFS now care because Murphy could do the same to them. Remember, Murphy has the power to move option programs wherever he wants without School Board approval. No school is safe from such a unilateral decision.

[Anonymous]

Yes. Other schools are safe b/c no other school is outside of its boundary. Murphy can't move ATS to Nottingham without the SB b/c that would require redoing the Nottingham boundaries and the boundaries around ATS. This only works for ASFS. And that's why they can do it.

[Anonymous]

oh no they are not safe. murph makes up the rules of the game as he goes. he'll figure out a way to get what he wants and the sb just keeps on approving his contract. "you cover for me with your program moves, and we'll cover for you with your contract renewal"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s official! They are moving the science lab. Praise Jesus.

I just read that on arl news now.

If ASFS were still a semi-option program, they could probably justify hoarding a $200k facility perk that was privately funded, with the rationale that everyone in the county could theoretically seek admission to that school. As a strictly neighborhood school, a $200k perk not made available to other elementary schools starts to feel very unequal. I wonder if the board has fully considered the legal implications of this.

You are welcome to fund a special lab for your school. Find corporate sponsors, etc.

Or just whine about it when other people took the effort to do it at their school.

I’m pro swap and don’t care about the lab, but this is a pretty weak argument considering most of the funding for that lab came from families who are no longer even at the school.

Not true but I'm guessing you didn't contribute if you are unaware that many contributors are still at the school. I contributed and I live closer to Key than ASFS and I do not support the swap. I can see through this plan and I fully realize we are all going to end up with crappier programs as a result of these moves. It took years to build what we have at ASFS (and would imagine the same holds for Key) and that is not going to be recreated any time during my children's time. I've had older ones go through ASFS and we value the program enough to know it needs to stay put in order to preserve what we have and not spend years trying to rebuild. However, you do raise interesting point about many of these people that aps is so concerned about appeasing. Many will be gone by the time any of this actually happens.

How does the building have anything to do with this? What makes a school is the teachers, leadership, curriculum, student population. Those are staying the same for both schools. The alternative is to keep ASFS where it is and draw new boundaries so you have a completely different student population. That seems lot more disruptive.

Disruptive for who? The teachers and faculty are used to getting a new crop of students every year, do you think it really matters if a second grade teacher sees her former students in the hallway on occasion? As for leadership, if you mean the PTA and volunteers, there has always been (and continues to be) a good mix of neighborhood/transfer parents and Key zone parents who run most of the events. I'm sure whatever happens with the location of the school, there will be others to take the roles that become vacant. As for the curriculum, yes, there will most certainly be a disruption because some of the fixtures that the teachers rely on for their lessons (the pond, the science lab, the habitat out front, etc.) will definitely be eliminated or changed once the move occurs. And the students? Yes, most of the students live in Key's old boundaries. Even if ASFS stays put, many of those kids would still go to ASFS because there isn't really anywhere else to send them. (No, not all of Rosslyn would automatically be dumped into Taylor!). There are reasonable ways to draw a boundary around ASFS that includes at least half the current population. But those types of boundaries weren't really explored by APS. Rather, the move appears to be a way to either to appease the ASFS influencers who want the school near them, and/or APS' grand plan to eliminate NA's immersion program (or give it a reason to move to SA) and get rid of the science lab that is taking up much needed permanent seat space.

I'm not saying there aren't some upsides for making the move, but those upsides will only benefit a limited number of families. Seems like a huge expense, headache, and (at least a) perceived inequity for the rest of the county-- the taxpayers have to pay for this move and all the resources and time that will be spent over the next few years to make it happen. What would happen if Murphy singled out and gave special consideration to every school community the way he did ASFS (and in the converse, gave no consideration to Key)? All this "swap decision" did was tell everyone in Arlington that, if you bitch enough, bitch loud, rally and inundate APS with enough letters, request meetings, etc., they will cave to a select group of parents. Seriously, read these threads-- no one at Key wants the move, most of ASFS (including all the staff and faculty) don't want the move but yet the move is happening to "keep the community together" (you know, the community that is currently at war with each other). Every taxpayer should be up in arms that they have to foot the bill for this just because, god forbid, they draw new boundaries around the ASFS building.

That's a whole lot of conspiracy theories there. None of which are true. The swap is the easiest and most "elegant" solution/least costly solution they could come up with given a lot of prior bad decisions. That's it. It's what staff suggested be done, and it's what they're going to do, for the good of the entire system, and yes, it will unduly affect a small portion of the system, much like any boundary change.