Anonymous wrote:I’m an Independent and while I’m moderate in a lot of things, I am wholeheartedly a “Yes” on this. For the good of all.
I'm also an independent and moderate regarding many issues, which is why I wholeheartedly voted "No." For the good of all.
+1
It’s such a lie that it’s temporary for one. The district lines will stay in the new shapes, the old ones will never come back. That is 1000% clear. They mist chame the numbers slightly after the new census in a few years but the new districts will remain and never go back to previous.
Two wrongs don’t make a right. “Because TX did it”, is not a valid argument.
Trump is done soon. We will be stick with these nonsensical districts dividing small toens and counties into separate districts.
+1 The whole “restoring fairness” thing is such a shameful lie. If I ever hear any of these partisan hacks (Spanberger and Obama included) whining about “protecting democracy” again I’m gonna puke.
Rs love to pretend like they didn’t do anything wrong.
It's a response to the MAGA's power grab nationally.
Didn't hear you complaining about the Rs gerrymandering in TX, MO, NC, or UT.
Why the F would anyone on an anonymous DC message board complain about gerrymandering in those states, jackass? They didn’t complain about gerrymandering in CA, MD or IL either.
What a dumb comment
They isn’t about state legislators, it’s for the US Congress.
It’s a national issue, dipshit.
WTF are you babbling about? State legislators?
I guess you’re so outraged by gerrymandering in CA, IL and MD that you’re not thinking clearly.
It’s not a STATE issue, it’s a NATIONAL issue.
I fully support disenfranchising MAGAs given that Rs have already done that to Ds. We all know the VA GOP would not have hesitated to do it if they had the chance. In a heartbeat.
If you support disenfranchising ANYONE, you can never again claim the high ground of pretend to care about “protecting democracy.” All you care about is your party being in power. Not about democracy. It’s true that many Rs don’t care either, but Ds are the ones constantly claiming they’re protecting democracy.
+1 The dishonesty is incredible. PP is outraged by gerrymandering until it benefits their "side"
You are full of sht.
Ds have been pushing to ban gerrymandering for years.
Rs decide to go crazy with gerrymandering to protect Trump.
And think Ds should just sit around and NOT try to fight it?
You might be OK with Trump shitting all over our Constitution but most people are not.
No, PP. You’re full of shit and a perfect example of the dishonesty. In 2020, after gaining power again in the VA legislature, it was the Democratic Party of Virginia that passed a resolution AGAINST the amendment for the bipartisan commission and they urged voters to vote against it. They overwhelmingly supported it in 2019 when the Republicans had power, then flip flopped to keep redistricting power to themselves when they could. That happened. It’s indisputable. So spare us all the sanctimonious nonsense about only R’s pulling this sort of crap. Virginia Dems were guilty of trying it then and they’re guilty of trying the same shit now.
FACT: Dems have been pushing to ban gerrymandering for years.
Who has fought it? Rs.
The group of Dems who opposed the VA plan was concerned about the flaws, which turned out to be accurate. The Rs didn’t participate in good faith and the decision DID go to the conservative VA SC. So their concerns were warranted.
Rs decide to go crazy with gerrymandering to protect Trump.
And think Ds should just sit around and NOT try to fight it?
You might be OK with Trump shitting all over our Constitution but most people are not.
Just stop it. That's NOT what happened. IDGAF what happened in other states. In VA, the Dems overwhelmingly supported the amendment in 2019. It went thorough almost unanimously. There were ZERO objections about "flaws". Then once in power they reversed course. The amendment never changed, but all of a sudden there were BS "objections". They objected because they wanted to keep redistricting power in their own hands, plain and simple. And don't try to downplay it by saying it was "a group of Democrats". It was the Democratic Party of Virginia. They passed a resolution to oppose it after fully supporting it the year before. The DPVA urged voters to vote against the ending of gerrymandering in the state. These are the FACTS>
In the House, roughly a dozen Democrats opposed it, saying it left too much wiggle room for partisan gerrymandering and didn’t do enough to protect communities of color.
‘Just wanted to get something passed’
In a recent interview, Del. Lamont Bagby, D-Henrico, the chairman of the Virginia Legislative Black Caucus, said he still has strong reservations about the commission proposal.
“A lot of individuals that we trusted lost credibility by jumping on the first train that leaves the station,” Bagby said. “It was evident that African Americans weren’t fully considered. … And Republicans were taking advantage of individuals that just wanted to get something passed that was said to be redistricting reform.”
Bagby said he’s also concerned about the amendment’s backup mechanism if the commission or the General Assembly couldn’t agree on a redistricting plan. In that scenario, the Supreme Court of Virginia — which is appointed by the General Assembly — would draw the district lines.
“It’s been 20 years of Republicans putting members’ friends and family on the Supreme Court,” Bagby said. “I would not trust redistricting in the hands of the Supreme Court.”
The two most recent justices appointed to the state Supreme Court are Stephen McCullough, who once worked under former Republican Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli, and Teresa Chafin, the sister of state Sen. Ben Chafin, R-Russell.
Some Democrats who voted for the amendment this year — even though they weren’t entirely happy with it — say its flaws can be remedied via a separate bill laying out more detailed rules and criteria for how the commission would work.
“People are unconformable with some aspects of this bipartisan commission,” said Del. Mark Sickles, D-Fairfax. “So it’s important to pass implementing legislation so there will be a better understanding of how the commission would work.”
The accompanying bill could include stronger measures to protect minority voting power. The amendment says the commission must comply with federal and state laws dealing with “racial and ethnic fairness,” including the Voting Rights Act. Supporters say duplicating Voting Rights Act-style protections in state law would safeguard against any future changes to federal law.
The bill could also ensure racial and geographic diversity on the commission.
“If we have all a bunch of white people from Northern Virginia, that would be a huge fail on a lot of levels,” Cannon said.
Bagby said he’s skeptical that the accompanying bill could resolve his concerns about the Supreme Court being the final arbiter in case of a deadlock.
“Something is not always better than nothing,” Bagby said. “What it appears we’re doing is we’re letting the same people that gerrymandered us for the last 20-plus years continue to do the same thing to us. Just with different hats on.”
Sorry. Nice try twisting yourself into a pretzel over this, but the leaders did a “full flop” by Politifact. When you’re done hyperventilating, give it a look. But I suspect you’ll say it’s “more lies”.
It wasn’t “unanimous” - a dozen Ds voted against it in 2019.
There were many objections about the flaws. Some Ds who voted yes the first time stated that they did so assuming that additional legislation would fix the flaws.
The Ds flipped several seats and a dozen new House members voted against it in 2020.
You have a very hard time with reading comprehension.
I said it was "overwhelmingly supported" in 2019. It was. Virginia Mercury and Politifact agree.
I said it was "nearly unanimous" in the 2019 vote. It was. Virginia Mercury and Politifact agree.
I never said anything about who voted against it in 2020 or why. I said that after regaining power in 2020, the Democratic Party of Virginia adopted and passed a resolution (overwhelmingly) against the amendment to end gerrymandering in Virginia. This was after their aforementioned overwhelming support and nearly unanimous vote in in favor of the exact same amendment to end gerrymandering in Virginia. They did. Virginia Mercury and Politifact agree.
Yes, the facts are crystal clear. You're simply being obtuse and it's getting exhausting.
What is exhausting is your intentional mischaracterization of what happened.
As I documented in my previous post:
It was not "almost unanimously" supported - there was a solid contingent who opposed it from the start.
There were objections about flaws in 2019. The same objections discussed again in 2020.
And they did not "fully" support it as you claimed.
All of this is a red herring though.
It does not matter how strongly committed the Ds were previously towards eliminating gerrymandering, because now we are ALL IN. I'm glad the Ds are finally developing a backbone to deal with the amoral Rs.
The POTUS must not have absolute power. Our government doesn’t work with if all three branches are corrupt.
OK got it. You're right. Virginia Mercury and Politifact got it all wrong. Democracy sucks and it must be defeated no matter what (or when you don't get your way)
Are you OK with Trump's actions?
Should Trump have absolute power?
If the GOP were willing to step up and curb his abhorrent behavior then we wouldn't be in this situation in the first place. But the corrupt Congress just lets him do whatever TF he wants, no matter how unethical, illegal, or unconstitutional.
Of course not, and of course not.
But as stated many times on this thread, rigging elections to stop election rigging is not the answer. Trying to save democracy while participating in its destruction is not the answer.
It’s just means you’re no better that what you claim to be fighting against. Your comments make this clear.
Hardly.
So what is the solution? Wait until the Republicans feel like admitting Trump did something wrong?
I don’t know, how about win elections by convincing voters your policies are better than the other side? I know that sounds crazy because the Dems have forgotten how to do that. “Fight MAGA”, “Stop Trump” is all they got, and now they’re back to gerrymandering and rigging elections to try to win.
So...Dems should ignore everything that Trump is doing so they can go back and work on campaign platforms and messaging? And hope for the best in 2028?
“Elections have consequences”. Do you remember who said that? Here’s a hint: he had a phone and a pen.
So Dems should not do anything today to combat Trump's unethical, illegal, and unconstitutional actions?
You can keep asking the same thing over and over digging for that “gotcha” answer. It’s not going to happen. I’m not going to say it’s OK to cheat, disenfranchise fellow Virginians, rig elections and destroy democracy in the process That’s exactly what this amendment does. It’s anti-democratic and again, supporting it makes you no better than the people you’re railing against.
Anonymous wrote:I’m an Independent and while I’m moderate in a lot of things, I am wholeheartedly a “Yes” on this. For the good of all.
I'm also an independent and moderate regarding many issues, which is why I wholeheartedly voted "No." For the good of all.
+1
It’s such a lie that it’s temporary for one. The district lines will stay in the new shapes, the old ones will never come back. That is 1000% clear. They mist chame the numbers slightly after the new census in a few years but the new districts will remain and never go back to previous.
Two wrongs don’t make a right. “Because TX did it”, is not a valid argument.
Trump is done soon. We will be stick with these nonsensical districts dividing small toens and counties into separate districts.
+1 The whole “restoring fairness” thing is such a shameful lie. If I ever hear any of these partisan hacks (Spanberger and Obama included) whining about “protecting democracy” again I’m gonna puke.
Rs love to pretend like they didn’t do anything wrong.
It's a response to the MAGA's power grab nationally.
Didn't hear you complaining about the Rs gerrymandering in TX, MO, NC, or UT.
Why the F would anyone on an anonymous DC message board complain about gerrymandering in those states, jackass? They didn’t complain about gerrymandering in CA, MD or IL either.
What a dumb comment
They isn’t about state legislators, it’s for the US Congress.
It’s a national issue, dipshit.
WTF are you babbling about? State legislators?
I guess you’re so outraged by gerrymandering in CA, IL and MD that you’re not thinking clearly.
It’s not a STATE issue, it’s a NATIONAL issue.
I fully support disenfranchising MAGAs given that Rs have already done that to Ds. We all know the VA GOP would not have hesitated to do it if they had the chance. In a heartbeat.
If you support disenfranchising ANYONE, you can never again claim the high ground of pretend to care about “protecting democracy.” All you care about is your party being in power. Not about democracy. It’s true that many Rs don’t care either, but Ds are the ones constantly claiming they’re protecting democracy.
+1 The dishonesty is incredible. PP is outraged by gerrymandering until it benefits their "side"
You are full of sht.
Ds have been pushing to ban gerrymandering for years.
Rs decide to go crazy with gerrymandering to protect Trump.
And think Ds should just sit around and NOT try to fight it?
You might be OK with Trump shitting all over our Constitution but most people are not.
No, PP. You’re full of shit and a perfect example of the dishonesty. In 2020, after gaining power again in the VA legislature, it was the Democratic Party of Virginia that passed a resolution AGAINST the amendment for the bipartisan commission and they urged voters to vote against it. They overwhelmingly supported it in 2019 when the Republicans had power, then flip flopped to keep redistricting power to themselves when they could. That happened. It’s indisputable. So spare us all the sanctimonious nonsense about only R’s pulling this sort of crap. Virginia Dems were guilty of trying it then and they’re guilty of trying the same shit now.
FACT: Dems have been pushing to ban gerrymandering for years.
Who has fought it? Rs.
The group of Dems who opposed the VA plan was concerned about the flaws, which turned out to be accurate. The Rs didn’t participate in good faith and the decision DID go to the conservative VA SC. So their concerns were warranted.
Rs decide to go crazy with gerrymandering to protect Trump.
And think Ds should just sit around and NOT try to fight it?
You might be OK with Trump shitting all over our Constitution but most people are not.
Just stop it. That's NOT what happened. IDGAF what happened in other states. In VA, the Dems overwhelmingly supported the amendment in 2019. It went thorough almost unanimously. There were ZERO objections about "flaws". Then once in power they reversed course. The amendment never changed, but all of a sudden there were BS "objections". They objected because they wanted to keep redistricting power in their own hands, plain and simple. And don't try to downplay it by saying it was "a group of Democrats". It was the Democratic Party of Virginia. They passed a resolution to oppose it after fully supporting it the year before. The DPVA urged voters to vote against the ending of gerrymandering in the state. These are the FACTS>
In the House, roughly a dozen Democrats opposed it, saying it left too much wiggle room for partisan gerrymandering and didn’t do enough to protect communities of color.
‘Just wanted to get something passed’
In a recent interview, Del. Lamont Bagby, D-Henrico, the chairman of the Virginia Legislative Black Caucus, said he still has strong reservations about the commission proposal.
“A lot of individuals that we trusted lost credibility by jumping on the first train that leaves the station,” Bagby said. “It was evident that African Americans weren’t fully considered. … And Republicans were taking advantage of individuals that just wanted to get something passed that was said to be redistricting reform.”
Bagby said he’s also concerned about the amendment’s backup mechanism if the commission or the General Assembly couldn’t agree on a redistricting plan. In that scenario, the Supreme Court of Virginia — which is appointed by the General Assembly — would draw the district lines.
“It’s been 20 years of Republicans putting members’ friends and family on the Supreme Court,” Bagby said. “I would not trust redistricting in the hands of the Supreme Court.”
The two most recent justices appointed to the state Supreme Court are Stephen McCullough, who once worked under former Republican Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli, and Teresa Chafin, the sister of state Sen. Ben Chafin, R-Russell.
Some Democrats who voted for the amendment this year — even though they weren’t entirely happy with it — say its flaws can be remedied via a separate bill laying out more detailed rules and criteria for how the commission would work.
“People are unconformable with some aspects of this bipartisan commission,” said Del. Mark Sickles, D-Fairfax. “So it’s important to pass implementing legislation so there will be a better understanding of how the commission would work.”
The accompanying bill could include stronger measures to protect minority voting power. The amendment says the commission must comply with federal and state laws dealing with “racial and ethnic fairness,” including the Voting Rights Act. Supporters say duplicating Voting Rights Act-style protections in state law would safeguard against any future changes to federal law.
The bill could also ensure racial and geographic diversity on the commission.
“If we have all a bunch of white people from Northern Virginia, that would be a huge fail on a lot of levels,” Cannon said.
Bagby said he’s skeptical that the accompanying bill could resolve his concerns about the Supreme Court being the final arbiter in case of a deadlock.
“Something is not always better than nothing,” Bagby said. “What it appears we’re doing is we’re letting the same people that gerrymandered us for the last 20-plus years continue to do the same thing to us. Just with different hats on.”
Sorry. Nice try twisting yourself into a pretzel over this, but the leaders did a “full flop” by Politifact. When you’re done hyperventilating, give it a look. But I suspect you’ll say it’s “more lies”.
It wasn’t “unanimous” - a dozen Ds voted against it in 2019.
There were many objections about the flaws. Some Ds who voted yes the first time stated that they did so assuming that additional legislation would fix the flaws.
The Ds flipped several seats and a dozen new House members voted against it in 2020.
You have a very hard time with reading comprehension.
I said it was "overwhelmingly supported" in 2019. It was. Virginia Mercury and Politifact agree.
I said it was "nearly unanimous" in the 2019 vote. It was. Virginia Mercury and Politifact agree.
I never said anything about who voted against it in 2020 or why. I said that after regaining power in 2020, the Democratic Party of Virginia adopted and passed a resolution (overwhelmingly) against the amendment to end gerrymandering in Virginia. This was after their aforementioned overwhelming support and nearly unanimous vote in in favor of the exact same amendment to end gerrymandering in Virginia. They did. Virginia Mercury and Politifact agree.
Yes, the facts are crystal clear. You're simply being obtuse and it's getting exhausting.
What is exhausting is your intentional mischaracterization of what happened.
As I documented in my previous post:
It was not "almost unanimously" supported - there was a solid contingent who opposed it from the start.
There were objections about flaws in 2019. The same objections discussed again in 2020.
And they did not "fully" support it as you claimed.
All of this is a red herring though.
It does not matter how strongly committed the Ds were previously towards eliminating gerrymandering, because now we are ALL IN. I'm glad the Ds are finally developing a backbone to deal with the amoral Rs.
The POTUS must not have absolute power. Our government doesn’t work with if all three branches are corrupt.
OK got it. You're right. Virginia Mercury and Politifact got it all wrong. Democracy sucks and it must be defeated no matter what (or when you don't get your way)
Are you OK with Trump's actions?
Should Trump have absolute power?
If the GOP were willing to step up and curb his abhorrent behavior then we wouldn't be in this situation in the first place. But the corrupt Congress just lets him do whatever TF he wants, no matter how unethical, illegal, or unconstitutional.
Of course not, and of course not.
But as stated many times on this thread, rigging elections to stop election rigging is not the answer. Trying to save democracy while participating in its destruction is not the answer.
It’s just means you’re no better that what you claim to be fighting against. Your comments make this clear.
Hardly.
So what is the solution? Wait until the Republicans feel like admitting Trump did something wrong?
I don’t know, how about win elections by convincing voters your policies are better than the other side? I know that sounds crazy because the Dems have forgotten how to do that. “Fight MAGA”, “Stop Trump” is all they got, and now they’re back to gerrymandering and rigging elections to try to win.
So...Dems should ignore everything that Trump is doing so they can go back and work on campaign platforms and messaging? And hope for the best in 2028?
“Elections have consequences”. Do you remember who said that? Here’s a hint: he had a phone and a pen.
So Dems should not do anything today to combat Trump's unethical, illegal, and unconstitutional actions?
You can keep asking the same thing over and over digging for that “gotcha” answer. It’s not going to happen. I’m not going to say it’s OK to cheat, disenfranchise fellow Virginians, rig elections and destroy democracy in the process That’s exactly what this amendment does. It’s anti-democratic and again, supporting it makes you no better than the people you’re railing against.
I'm just looking for any alternative.
Your inability to offer up any other viable option pretty much speaks for itself.
If a Dem were doing all of the things that Trump is doing (or even a tiny fraction), I'd push for their removal. Haven't heard a peep out of the Rs.
Anonymous wrote:I’m an Independent and while I’m moderate in a lot of things, I am wholeheartedly a “Yes” on this. For the good of all.
I'm also an independent and moderate regarding many issues, which is why I wholeheartedly voted "No." For the good of all.
+1
It’s such a lie that it’s temporary for one. The district lines will stay in the new shapes, the old ones will never come back. That is 1000% clear. They mist chame the numbers slightly after the new census in a few years but the new districts will remain and never go back to previous.
Two wrongs don’t make a right. “Because TX did it”, is not a valid argument.
Trump is done soon. We will be stick with these nonsensical districts dividing small toens and counties into separate districts.
+1 The whole “restoring fairness” thing is such a shameful lie. If I ever hear any of these partisan hacks (Spanberger and Obama included) whining about “protecting democracy” again I’m gonna puke.
Rs love to pretend like they didn’t do anything wrong.
It's a response to the MAGA's power grab nationally.
Didn't hear you complaining about the Rs gerrymandering in TX, MO, NC, or UT.
Why the F would anyone on an anonymous DC message board complain about gerrymandering in those states, jackass? They didn’t complain about gerrymandering in CA, MD or IL either.
What a dumb comment
They isn’t about state legislators, it’s for the US Congress.
It’s a national issue, dipshit.
WTF are you babbling about? State legislators?
I guess you’re so outraged by gerrymandering in CA, IL and MD that you’re not thinking clearly.
It’s not a STATE issue, it’s a NATIONAL issue.
I fully support disenfranchising MAGAs given that Rs have already done that to Ds. We all know the VA GOP would not have hesitated to do it if they had the chance. In a heartbeat.
If you support disenfranchising ANYONE, you can never again claim the high ground of pretend to care about “protecting democracy.” All you care about is your party being in power. Not about democracy. It’s true that many Rs don’t care either, but Ds are the ones constantly claiming they’re protecting democracy.
+1 The dishonesty is incredible. PP is outraged by gerrymandering until it benefits their "side"
You are full of sht.
Ds have been pushing to ban gerrymandering for years.
Rs decide to go crazy with gerrymandering to protect Trump.
And think Ds should just sit around and NOT try to fight it?
You might be OK with Trump shitting all over our Constitution but most people are not.
No, PP. You’re full of shit and a perfect example of the dishonesty. In 2020, after gaining power again in the VA legislature, it was the Democratic Party of Virginia that passed a resolution AGAINST the amendment for the bipartisan commission and they urged voters to vote against it. They overwhelmingly supported it in 2019 when the Republicans had power, then flip flopped to keep redistricting power to themselves when they could. That happened. It’s indisputable. So spare us all the sanctimonious nonsense about only R’s pulling this sort of crap. Virginia Dems were guilty of trying it then and they’re guilty of trying the same shit now.
FACT: Dems have been pushing to ban gerrymandering for years.
Who has fought it? Rs.
The group of Dems who opposed the VA plan was concerned about the flaws, which turned out to be accurate. The Rs didn’t participate in good faith and the decision DID go to the conservative VA SC. So their concerns were warranted.
Rs decide to go crazy with gerrymandering to protect Trump.
And think Ds should just sit around and NOT try to fight it?
You might be OK with Trump shitting all over our Constitution but most people are not.
Just stop it. That's NOT what happened. IDGAF what happened in other states. In VA, the Dems overwhelmingly supported the amendment in 2019. It went thorough almost unanimously. There were ZERO objections about "flaws". Then once in power they reversed course. The amendment never changed, but all of a sudden there were BS "objections". They objected because they wanted to keep redistricting power in their own hands, plain and simple. And don't try to downplay it by saying it was "a group of Democrats". It was the Democratic Party of Virginia. They passed a resolution to oppose it after fully supporting it the year before. The DPVA urged voters to vote against the ending of gerrymandering in the state. These are the FACTS>
In the House, roughly a dozen Democrats opposed it, saying it left too much wiggle room for partisan gerrymandering and didn’t do enough to protect communities of color.
‘Just wanted to get something passed’
In a recent interview, Del. Lamont Bagby, D-Henrico, the chairman of the Virginia Legislative Black Caucus, said he still has strong reservations about the commission proposal.
“A lot of individuals that we trusted lost credibility by jumping on the first train that leaves the station,” Bagby said. “It was evident that African Americans weren’t fully considered. … And Republicans were taking advantage of individuals that just wanted to get something passed that was said to be redistricting reform.”
Bagby said he’s also concerned about the amendment’s backup mechanism if the commission or the General Assembly couldn’t agree on a redistricting plan. In that scenario, the Supreme Court of Virginia — which is appointed by the General Assembly — would draw the district lines.
“It’s been 20 years of Republicans putting members’ friends and family on the Supreme Court,” Bagby said. “I would not trust redistricting in the hands of the Supreme Court.”
The two most recent justices appointed to the state Supreme Court are Stephen McCullough, who once worked under former Republican Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli, and Teresa Chafin, the sister of state Sen. Ben Chafin, R-Russell.
Some Democrats who voted for the amendment this year — even though they weren’t entirely happy with it — say its flaws can be remedied via a separate bill laying out more detailed rules and criteria for how the commission would work.
“People are unconformable with some aspects of this bipartisan commission,” said Del. Mark Sickles, D-Fairfax. “So it’s important to pass implementing legislation so there will be a better understanding of how the commission would work.”
The accompanying bill could include stronger measures to protect minority voting power. The amendment says the commission must comply with federal and state laws dealing with “racial and ethnic fairness,” including the Voting Rights Act. Supporters say duplicating Voting Rights Act-style protections in state law would safeguard against any future changes to federal law.
The bill could also ensure racial and geographic diversity on the commission.
“If we have all a bunch of white people from Northern Virginia, that would be a huge fail on a lot of levels,” Cannon said.
Bagby said he’s skeptical that the accompanying bill could resolve his concerns about the Supreme Court being the final arbiter in case of a deadlock.
“Something is not always better than nothing,” Bagby said. “What it appears we’re doing is we’re letting the same people that gerrymandered us for the last 20-plus years continue to do the same thing to us. Just with different hats on.”
Sorry. Nice try twisting yourself into a pretzel over this, but the leaders did a “full flop” by Politifact. When you’re done hyperventilating, give it a look. But I suspect you’ll say it’s “more lies”.
It wasn’t “unanimous” - a dozen Ds voted against it in 2019.
There were many objections about the flaws. Some Ds who voted yes the first time stated that they did so assuming that additional legislation would fix the flaws.
The Ds flipped several seats and a dozen new House members voted against it in 2020.
You have a very hard time with reading comprehension.
I said it was "overwhelmingly supported" in 2019. It was. Virginia Mercury and Politifact agree.
I said it was "nearly unanimous" in the 2019 vote. It was. Virginia Mercury and Politifact agree.
I never said anything about who voted against it in 2020 or why. I said that after regaining power in 2020, the Democratic Party of Virginia adopted and passed a resolution (overwhelmingly) against the amendment to end gerrymandering in Virginia. This was after their aforementioned overwhelming support and nearly unanimous vote in in favor of the exact same amendment to end gerrymandering in Virginia. They did. Virginia Mercury and Politifact agree.
Yes, the facts are crystal clear. You're simply being obtuse and it's getting exhausting.
What is exhausting is your intentional mischaracterization of what happened.
As I documented in my previous post:
It was not "almost unanimously" supported - there was a solid contingent who opposed it from the start.
There were objections about flaws in 2019. The same objections discussed again in 2020.
And they did not "fully" support it as you claimed.
All of this is a red herring though.
It does not matter how strongly committed the Ds were previously towards eliminating gerrymandering, because now we are ALL IN. I'm glad the Ds are finally developing a backbone to deal with the amoral Rs.
The POTUS must not have absolute power. Our government doesn’t work with if all three branches are corrupt.
OK got it. You're right. Virginia Mercury and Politifact got it all wrong. Democracy sucks and it must be defeated no matter what (or when you don't get your way)
Are you OK with Trump's actions?
Should Trump have absolute power?
If the GOP were willing to step up and curb his abhorrent behavior then we wouldn't be in this situation in the first place. But the corrupt Congress just lets him do whatever TF he wants, no matter how unethical, illegal, or unconstitutional.
Of course not, and of course not.
But as stated many times on this thread, rigging elections to stop election rigging is not the answer. Trying to save democracy while participating in its destruction is not the answer.
It’s just means you’re no better that what you claim to be fighting against. Your comments make this clear.
Hardly.
So what is the solution? Wait until the Republicans feel like admitting Trump did something wrong?
I don’t know, how about win elections by convincing voters your policies are better than the other side? I know that sounds crazy because the Dems have forgotten how to do that. “Fight MAGA”, “Stop Trump” is all they got, and now they’re back to gerrymandering and rigging elections to try to win.
So...Dems should ignore everything that Trump is doing so they can go back and work on campaign platforms and messaging? And hope for the best in 2028?
“Elections have consequences”. Do you remember who said that? Here’s a hint: he had a phone and a pen.
So Dems should not do anything today to combat Trump's unethical, illegal, and unconstitutional actions?
You can keep asking the same thing over and over digging for that “gotcha” answer. It’s not going to happen. I’m not going to say it’s OK to cheat, disenfranchise fellow Virginians, rig elections and destroy democracy in the process That’s exactly what this amendment does. It’s anti-democratic and again, supporting it makes you no better than the people you’re railing against.
I'm just looking for any alternative.
Your inability to offer up any other viable option pretty much speaks for itself.
If a Dem were doing all of the things that Trump is doing (or even a tiny fraction), I'd push for their removal. Haven't heard a peep out of the Rs.
The viable option was offered: Run on issues that win elections. Dems haven’t done that in years. You just didn’t accept it because cheating is so much easier.
Besides, Trump is gone in 2 years (maybe dead in 5 as PP mentioned). If passed, this anti-democratic gerrymandering by the Dems lasts 2 congressional terms beyond Trump. It’s clearly a shameless power grab. The “Restoring fairness” lie is going over like a lead balloon b/c it’s so absurd, so now “stop Trump” is the rallying cry.
Anonymous wrote:I’m an Independent and while I’m moderate in a lot of things, I am wholeheartedly a “Yes” on this. For the good of all.
I'm also an independent and moderate regarding many issues, which is why I wholeheartedly voted "No." For the good of all.
+1
It’s such a lie that it’s temporary for one. The district lines will stay in the new shapes, the old ones will never come back. That is 1000% clear. They mist chame the numbers slightly after the new census in a few years but the new districts will remain and never go back to previous.
Two wrongs don’t make a right. “Because TX did it”, is not a valid argument.
Trump is done soon. We will be stick with these nonsensical districts dividing small toens and counties into separate districts.
+1 The whole “restoring fairness” thing is such a shameful lie. If I ever hear any of these partisan hacks (Spanberger and Obama included) whining about “protecting democracy” again I’m gonna puke.
Rs love to pretend like they didn’t do anything wrong.
It's a response to the MAGA's power grab nationally.
Didn't hear you complaining about the Rs gerrymandering in TX, MO, NC, or UT.
Why the F would anyone on an anonymous DC message board complain about gerrymandering in those states, jackass? They didn’t complain about gerrymandering in CA, MD or IL either.
What a dumb comment
They isn’t about state legislators, it’s for the US Congress.
It’s a national issue, dipshit.
WTF are you babbling about? State legislators?
I guess you’re so outraged by gerrymandering in CA, IL and MD that you’re not thinking clearly.
It’s not a STATE issue, it’s a NATIONAL issue.
I fully support disenfranchising MAGAs given that Rs have already done that to Ds. We all know the VA GOP would not have hesitated to do it if they had the chance. In a heartbeat.
If you support disenfranchising ANYONE, you can never again claim the high ground of pretend to care about “protecting democracy.” All you care about is your party being in power. Not about democracy. It’s true that many Rs don’t care either, but Ds are the ones constantly claiming they’re protecting democracy.
+1 The dishonesty is incredible. PP is outraged by gerrymandering until it benefits their "side"
You are full of sht.
Ds have been pushing to ban gerrymandering for years.
Rs decide to go crazy with gerrymandering to protect Trump.
And think Ds should just sit around and NOT try to fight it?
You might be OK with Trump shitting all over our Constitution but most people are not.
No, PP. You’re full of shit and a perfect example of the dishonesty. In 2020, after gaining power again in the VA legislature, it was the Democratic Party of Virginia that passed a resolution AGAINST the amendment for the bipartisan commission and they urged voters to vote against it. They overwhelmingly supported it in 2019 when the Republicans had power, then flip flopped to keep redistricting power to themselves when they could. That happened. It’s indisputable. So spare us all the sanctimonious nonsense about only R’s pulling this sort of crap. Virginia Dems were guilty of trying it then and they’re guilty of trying the same shit now.
FACT: Dems have been pushing to ban gerrymandering for years.
Who has fought it? Rs.
The group of Dems who opposed the VA plan was concerned about the flaws, which turned out to be accurate. The Rs didn’t participate in good faith and the decision DID go to the conservative VA SC. So their concerns were warranted.
Rs decide to go crazy with gerrymandering to protect Trump.
And think Ds should just sit around and NOT try to fight it?
You might be OK with Trump shitting all over our Constitution but most people are not.
Just stop it. That's NOT what happened. IDGAF what happened in other states. In VA, the Dems overwhelmingly supported the amendment in 2019. It went thorough almost unanimously. There were ZERO objections about "flaws". Then once in power they reversed course. The amendment never changed, but all of a sudden there were BS "objections". They objected because they wanted to keep redistricting power in their own hands, plain and simple. And don't try to downplay it by saying it was "a group of Democrats". It was the Democratic Party of Virginia. They passed a resolution to oppose it after fully supporting it the year before. The DPVA urged voters to vote against the ending of gerrymandering in the state. These are the FACTS>
In the House, roughly a dozen Democrats opposed it, saying it left too much wiggle room for partisan gerrymandering and didn’t do enough to protect communities of color.
‘Just wanted to get something passed’
In a recent interview, Del. Lamont Bagby, D-Henrico, the chairman of the Virginia Legislative Black Caucus, said he still has strong reservations about the commission proposal.
“A lot of individuals that we trusted lost credibility by jumping on the first train that leaves the station,” Bagby said. “It was evident that African Americans weren’t fully considered. … And Republicans were taking advantage of individuals that just wanted to get something passed that was said to be redistricting reform.”
Bagby said he’s also concerned about the amendment’s backup mechanism if the commission or the General Assembly couldn’t agree on a redistricting plan. In that scenario, the Supreme Court of Virginia — which is appointed by the General Assembly — would draw the district lines.
“It’s been 20 years of Republicans putting members’ friends and family on the Supreme Court,” Bagby said. “I would not trust redistricting in the hands of the Supreme Court.”
The two most recent justices appointed to the state Supreme Court are Stephen McCullough, who once worked under former Republican Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli, and Teresa Chafin, the sister of state Sen. Ben Chafin, R-Russell.
Some Democrats who voted for the amendment this year — even though they weren’t entirely happy with it — say its flaws can be remedied via a separate bill laying out more detailed rules and criteria for how the commission would work.
“People are unconformable with some aspects of this bipartisan commission,” said Del. Mark Sickles, D-Fairfax. “So it’s important to pass implementing legislation so there will be a better understanding of how the commission would work.”
The accompanying bill could include stronger measures to protect minority voting power. The amendment says the commission must comply with federal and state laws dealing with “racial and ethnic fairness,” including the Voting Rights Act. Supporters say duplicating Voting Rights Act-style protections in state law would safeguard against any future changes to federal law.
The bill could also ensure racial and geographic diversity on the commission.
“If we have all a bunch of white people from Northern Virginia, that would be a huge fail on a lot of levels,” Cannon said.
Bagby said he’s skeptical that the accompanying bill could resolve his concerns about the Supreme Court being the final arbiter in case of a deadlock.
“Something is not always better than nothing,” Bagby said. “What it appears we’re doing is we’re letting the same people that gerrymandered us for the last 20-plus years continue to do the same thing to us. Just with different hats on.”
Sorry. Nice try twisting yourself into a pretzel over this, but the leaders did a “full flop” by Politifact. When you’re done hyperventilating, give it a look. But I suspect you’ll say it’s “more lies”.
It wasn’t “unanimous” - a dozen Ds voted against it in 2019.
There were many objections about the flaws. Some Ds who voted yes the first time stated that they did so assuming that additional legislation would fix the flaws.
The Ds flipped several seats and a dozen new House members voted against it in 2020.
You have a very hard time with reading comprehension.
I said it was "overwhelmingly supported" in 2019. It was. Virginia Mercury and Politifact agree.
I said it was "nearly unanimous" in the 2019 vote. It was. Virginia Mercury and Politifact agree.
I never said anything about who voted against it in 2020 or why. I said that after regaining power in 2020, the Democratic Party of Virginia adopted and passed a resolution (overwhelmingly) against the amendment to end gerrymandering in Virginia. This was after their aforementioned overwhelming support and nearly unanimous vote in in favor of the exact same amendment to end gerrymandering in Virginia. They did. Virginia Mercury and Politifact agree.
Yes, the facts are crystal clear. You're simply being obtuse and it's getting exhausting.
What is exhausting is your intentional mischaracterization of what happened.
As I documented in my previous post:
It was not "almost unanimously" supported - there was a solid contingent who opposed it from the start.
There were objections about flaws in 2019. The same objections discussed again in 2020.
And they did not "fully" support it as you claimed.
All of this is a red herring though.
It does not matter how strongly committed the Ds were previously towards eliminating gerrymandering, because now we are ALL IN. I'm glad the Ds are finally developing a backbone to deal with the amoral Rs.
The POTUS must not have absolute power. Our government doesn’t work with if all three branches are corrupt.
OK got it. You're right. Virginia Mercury and Politifact got it all wrong. Democracy sucks and it must be defeated no matter what (or when you don't get your way)
Are you OK with Trump's actions?
Should Trump have absolute power?
If the GOP were willing to step up and curb his abhorrent behavior then we wouldn't be in this situation in the first place. But the corrupt Congress just lets him do whatever TF he wants, no matter how unethical, illegal, or unconstitutional.
Of course not, and of course not.
But as stated many times on this thread, rigging elections to stop election rigging is not the answer. Trying to save democracy while participating in its destruction is not the answer.
It’s just means you’re no better that what you claim to be fighting against. Your comments make this clear.
Hardly.
So what is the solution? Wait until the Republicans feel like admitting Trump did something wrong?
I don’t know, how about win elections by convincing voters your policies are better than the other side? I know that sounds crazy because the Dems have forgotten how to do that. “Fight MAGA”, “Stop Trump” is all they got, and now they’re back to gerrymandering and rigging elections to try to win.
So...Dems should ignore everything that Trump is doing so they can go back and work on campaign platforms and messaging? And hope for the best in 2028?
“Elections have consequences”. Do you remember who said that? Here’s a hint: he had a phone and a pen.
So Dems should not do anything today to combat Trump's unethical, illegal, and unconstitutional actions?
You can keep asking the same thing over and over digging for that “gotcha” answer. It’s not going to happen. I’m not going to say it’s OK to cheat, disenfranchise fellow Virginians, rig elections and destroy democracy in the process That’s exactly what this amendment does. It’s anti-democratic and again, supporting it makes you no better than the people you’re railing against.
I'm just looking for any alternative.
Your inability to offer up any other viable option pretty much speaks for itself.
If a Dem were doing all of the things that Trump is doing (or even a tiny fraction), I'd push for their removal. Haven't heard a peep out of the Rs.
The viable option was offered: Run on issues that win elections. Dems haven’t done that in years. You just didn’t accept it because cheating is so much easier.
Besides, Trump is gone in 2 years (maybe dead in 5 as PP mentioned). If passed, this anti-democratic gerrymandering by the Dems lasts 2 congressional terms beyond Trump. It’s clearly a shameless power grab. The “Restoring fairness” lie is going over like a lead balloon b/c it’s so absurd, so now “stop Trump” is the rallying cry.
Elections in 2028? Soooo...no viable plan for the foreseeable future.
Again, your inability to offer up any other viable option pretty much speaks for itself.
Maybe if the GOP could get their sht together the Dems wouldn't have to step up to fix things.
Anonymous wrote:I’m an Independent and while I’m moderate in a lot of things, I am wholeheartedly a “Yes” on this. For the good of all.
I'm also an independent and moderate regarding many issues, which is why I wholeheartedly voted "No." For the good of all.
+1
It’s such a lie that it’s temporary for one. The district lines will stay in the new shapes, the old ones will never come back. That is 1000% clear. They mist chame the numbers slightly after the new census in a few years but the new districts will remain and never go back to previous.
Two wrongs don’t make a right. “Because TX did it”, is not a valid argument.
Trump is done soon. We will be stick with these nonsensical districts dividing small toens and counties into separate districts.
+1 The whole “restoring fairness” thing is such a shameful lie. If I ever hear any of these partisan hacks (Spanberger and Obama included) whining about “protecting democracy” again I’m gonna puke.
Rs love to pretend like they didn’t do anything wrong.
It's a response to the MAGA's power grab nationally.
Didn't hear you complaining about the Rs gerrymandering in TX, MO, NC, or UT.
Why the F would anyone on an anonymous DC message board complain about gerrymandering in those states, jackass? They didn’t complain about gerrymandering in CA, MD or IL either.
What a dumb comment
They isn’t about state legislators, it’s for the US Congress.
It’s a national issue, dipshit.
WTF are you babbling about? State legislators?
I guess you’re so outraged by gerrymandering in CA, IL and MD that you’re not thinking clearly.
It’s not a STATE issue, it’s a NATIONAL issue.
I fully support disenfranchising MAGAs given that Rs have already done that to Ds. We all know the VA GOP would not have hesitated to do it if they had the chance. In a heartbeat.
If you support disenfranchising ANYONE, you can never again claim the high ground of pretend to care about “protecting democracy.” All you care about is your party being in power. Not about democracy. It’s true that many Rs don’t care either, but Ds are the ones constantly claiming they’re protecting democracy.
+1 The dishonesty is incredible. PP is outraged by gerrymandering until it benefits their "side"
You are full of sht.
Ds have been pushing to ban gerrymandering for years.
Rs decide to go crazy with gerrymandering to protect Trump.
And think Ds should just sit around and NOT try to fight it?
You might be OK with Trump shitting all over our Constitution but most people are not.
No, PP. You’re full of shit and a perfect example of the dishonesty. In 2020, after gaining power again in the VA legislature, it was the Democratic Party of Virginia that passed a resolution AGAINST the amendment for the bipartisan commission and they urged voters to vote against it. They overwhelmingly supported it in 2019 when the Republicans had power, then flip flopped to keep redistricting power to themselves when they could. That happened. It’s indisputable. So spare us all the sanctimonious nonsense about only R’s pulling this sort of crap. Virginia Dems were guilty of trying it then and they’re guilty of trying the same shit now.
FACT: Dems have been pushing to ban gerrymandering for years.
Who has fought it? Rs.
The group of Dems who opposed the VA plan was concerned about the flaws, which turned out to be accurate. The Rs didn’t participate in good faith and the decision DID go to the conservative VA SC. So their concerns were warranted.
Rs decide to go crazy with gerrymandering to protect Trump.
And think Ds should just sit around and NOT try to fight it?
You might be OK with Trump shitting all over our Constitution but most people are not.
Just stop it. That's NOT what happened. IDGAF what happened in other states. In VA, the Dems overwhelmingly supported the amendment in 2019. It went thorough almost unanimously. There were ZERO objections about "flaws". Then once in power they reversed course. The amendment never changed, but all of a sudden there were BS "objections". They objected because they wanted to keep redistricting power in their own hands, plain and simple. And don't try to downplay it by saying it was "a group of Democrats". It was the Democratic Party of Virginia. They passed a resolution to oppose it after fully supporting it the year before. The DPVA urged voters to vote against the ending of gerrymandering in the state. These are the FACTS>
In the House, roughly a dozen Democrats opposed it, saying it left too much wiggle room for partisan gerrymandering and didn’t do enough to protect communities of color.
‘Just wanted to get something passed’
In a recent interview, Del. Lamont Bagby, D-Henrico, the chairman of the Virginia Legislative Black Caucus, said he still has strong reservations about the commission proposal.
“A lot of individuals that we trusted lost credibility by jumping on the first train that leaves the station,” Bagby said. “It was evident that African Americans weren’t fully considered. … And Republicans were taking advantage of individuals that just wanted to get something passed that was said to be redistricting reform.”
Bagby said he’s also concerned about the amendment’s backup mechanism if the commission or the General Assembly couldn’t agree on a redistricting plan. In that scenario, the Supreme Court of Virginia — which is appointed by the General Assembly — would draw the district lines.
“It’s been 20 years of Republicans putting members’ friends and family on the Supreme Court,” Bagby said. “I would not trust redistricting in the hands of the Supreme Court.”
The two most recent justices appointed to the state Supreme Court are Stephen McCullough, who once worked under former Republican Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli, and Teresa Chafin, the sister of state Sen. Ben Chafin, R-Russell.
Some Democrats who voted for the amendment this year — even though they weren’t entirely happy with it — say its flaws can be remedied via a separate bill laying out more detailed rules and criteria for how the commission would work.
“People are unconformable with some aspects of this bipartisan commission,” said Del. Mark Sickles, D-Fairfax. “So it’s important to pass implementing legislation so there will be a better understanding of how the commission would work.”
The accompanying bill could include stronger measures to protect minority voting power. The amendment says the commission must comply with federal and state laws dealing with “racial and ethnic fairness,” including the Voting Rights Act. Supporters say duplicating Voting Rights Act-style protections in state law would safeguard against any future changes to federal law.
The bill could also ensure racial and geographic diversity on the commission.
“If we have all a bunch of white people from Northern Virginia, that would be a huge fail on a lot of levels,” Cannon said.
Bagby said he’s skeptical that the accompanying bill could resolve his concerns about the Supreme Court being the final arbiter in case of a deadlock.
“Something is not always better than nothing,” Bagby said. “What it appears we’re doing is we’re letting the same people that gerrymandered us for the last 20-plus years continue to do the same thing to us. Just with different hats on.”
Sorry. Nice try twisting yourself into a pretzel over this, but the leaders did a “full flop” by Politifact. When you’re done hyperventilating, give it a look. But I suspect you’ll say it’s “more lies”.
It wasn’t “unanimous” - a dozen Ds voted against it in 2019.
There were many objections about the flaws. Some Ds who voted yes the first time stated that they did so assuming that additional legislation would fix the flaws.
The Ds flipped several seats and a dozen new House members voted against it in 2020.
You have a very hard time with reading comprehension.
I said it was "overwhelmingly supported" in 2019. It was. Virginia Mercury and Politifact agree.
I said it was "nearly unanimous" in the 2019 vote. It was. Virginia Mercury and Politifact agree.
I never said anything about who voted against it in 2020 or why. I said that after regaining power in 2020, the Democratic Party of Virginia adopted and passed a resolution (overwhelmingly) against the amendment to end gerrymandering in Virginia. This was after their aforementioned overwhelming support and nearly unanimous vote in in favor of the exact same amendment to end gerrymandering in Virginia. They did. Virginia Mercury and Politifact agree.
Yes, the facts are crystal clear. You're simply being obtuse and it's getting exhausting.
What is exhausting is your intentional mischaracterization of what happened.
As I documented in my previous post:
It was not "almost unanimously" supported - there was a solid contingent who opposed it from the start.
There were objections about flaws in 2019. The same objections discussed again in 2020.
And they did not "fully" support it as you claimed.
All of this is a red herring though.
It does not matter how strongly committed the Ds were previously towards eliminating gerrymandering, because now we are ALL IN. I'm glad the Ds are finally developing a backbone to deal with the amoral Rs.
The POTUS must not have absolute power. Our government doesn’t work with if all three branches are corrupt.
OK got it. You're right. Virginia Mercury and Politifact got it all wrong. Democracy sucks and it must be defeated no matter what (or when you don't get your way)
Are you OK with Trump's actions?
Should Trump have absolute power?
If the GOP were willing to step up and curb his abhorrent behavior then we wouldn't be in this situation in the first place. But the corrupt Congress just lets him do whatever TF he wants, no matter how unethical, illegal, or unconstitutional.
Of course not, and of course not.
But as stated many times on this thread, rigging elections to stop election rigging is not the answer. Trying to save democracy while participating in its destruction is not the answer.
It’s just means you’re no better that what you claim to be fighting against. Your comments make this clear.
Hardly.
So what is the solution? Wait until the Republicans feel like admitting Trump did something wrong?
I don’t know, how about win elections by convincing voters your policies are better than the other side? I know that sounds crazy because the Dems have forgotten how to do that. “Fight MAGA”, “Stop Trump” is all they got, and now they’re back to gerrymandering and rigging elections to try to win.
So...Dems should ignore everything that Trump is doing so they can go back and work on campaign platforms and messaging? And hope for the best in 2028?
“Elections have consequences”. Do you remember who said that? Here’s a hint: he had a phone and a pen.
Interesting. You know, we just did have an election right here in VA last year.
Anonymous wrote:I’m an Independent and while I’m moderate in a lot of things, I am wholeheartedly a “Yes” on this. For the good of all.
I'm also an independent and moderate regarding many issues, which is why I wholeheartedly voted "No." For the good of all.
+1
It’s such a lie that it’s temporary for one. The district lines will stay in the new shapes, the old ones will never come back. That is 1000% clear. They mist chame the numbers slightly after the new census in a few years but the new districts will remain and never go back to previous.
Two wrongs don’t make a right. “Because TX did it”, is not a valid argument.
Trump is done soon. We will be stick with these nonsensical districts dividing small toens and counties into separate districts.
+1 The whole “restoring fairness” thing is such a shameful lie. If I ever hear any of these partisan hacks (Spanberger and Obama included) whining about “protecting democracy” again I’m gonna puke.
Rs love to pretend like they didn’t do anything wrong.
It's a response to the MAGA's power grab nationally.
Didn't hear you complaining about the Rs gerrymandering in TX, MO, NC, or UT.
Why the F would anyone on an anonymous DC message board complain about gerrymandering in those states, jackass? They didn’t complain about gerrymandering in CA, MD or IL either.
What a dumb comment
They isn’t about state legislators, it’s for the US Congress.
It’s a national issue, dipshit.
WTF are you babbling about? State legislators?
I guess you’re so outraged by gerrymandering in CA, IL and MD that you’re not thinking clearly.
It’s not a STATE issue, it’s a NATIONAL issue.
I fully support disenfranchising MAGAs given that Rs have already done that to Ds. We all know the VA GOP would not have hesitated to do it if they had the chance. In a heartbeat.
If you support disenfranchising ANYONE, you can never again claim the high ground of pretend to care about “protecting democracy.” All you care about is your party being in power. Not about democracy. It’s true that many Rs don’t care either, but Ds are the ones constantly claiming they’re protecting democracy.
+1 The dishonesty is incredible. PP is outraged by gerrymandering until it benefits their "side"
You are full of sht.
Ds have been pushing to ban gerrymandering for years.
Rs decide to go crazy with gerrymandering to protect Trump.
And think Ds should just sit around and NOT try to fight it?
You might be OK with Trump shitting all over our Constitution but most people are not.
No, PP. You’re full of shit and a perfect example of the dishonesty. In 2020, after gaining power again in the VA legislature, it was the Democratic Party of Virginia that passed a resolution AGAINST the amendment for the bipartisan commission and they urged voters to vote against it. They overwhelmingly supported it in 2019 when the Republicans had power, then flip flopped to keep redistricting power to themselves when they could. That happened. It’s indisputable. So spare us all the sanctimonious nonsense about only R’s pulling this sort of crap. Virginia Dems were guilty of trying it then and they’re guilty of trying the same shit now.
FACT: Dems have been pushing to ban gerrymandering for years.
Who has fought it? Rs.
The group of Dems who opposed the VA plan was concerned about the flaws, which turned out to be accurate. The Rs didn’t participate in good faith and the decision DID go to the conservative VA SC. So their concerns were warranted.
Rs decide to go crazy with gerrymandering to protect Trump.
And think Ds should just sit around and NOT try to fight it?
You might be OK with Trump shitting all over our Constitution but most people are not.
Just stop it. That's NOT what happened. IDGAF what happened in other states. In VA, the Dems overwhelmingly supported the amendment in 2019. It went thorough almost unanimously. There were ZERO objections about "flaws". Then once in power they reversed course. The amendment never changed, but all of a sudden there were BS "objections". They objected because they wanted to keep redistricting power in their own hands, plain and simple. And don't try to downplay it by saying it was "a group of Democrats". It was the Democratic Party of Virginia. They passed a resolution to oppose it after fully supporting it the year before. The DPVA urged voters to vote against the ending of gerrymandering in the state. These are the FACTS>
In the House, roughly a dozen Democrats opposed it, saying it left too much wiggle room for partisan gerrymandering and didn’t do enough to protect communities of color.
‘Just wanted to get something passed’
In a recent interview, Del. Lamont Bagby, D-Henrico, the chairman of the Virginia Legislative Black Caucus, said he still has strong reservations about the commission proposal.
“A lot of individuals that we trusted lost credibility by jumping on the first train that leaves the station,” Bagby said. “It was evident that African Americans weren’t fully considered. … And Republicans were taking advantage of individuals that just wanted to get something passed that was said to be redistricting reform.”
Bagby said he’s also concerned about the amendment’s backup mechanism if the commission or the General Assembly couldn’t agree on a redistricting plan. In that scenario, the Supreme Court of Virginia — which is appointed by the General Assembly — would draw the district lines.
“It’s been 20 years of Republicans putting members’ friends and family on the Supreme Court,” Bagby said. “I would not trust redistricting in the hands of the Supreme Court.”
The two most recent justices appointed to the state Supreme Court are Stephen McCullough, who once worked under former Republican Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli, and Teresa Chafin, the sister of state Sen. Ben Chafin, R-Russell.
Some Democrats who voted for the amendment this year — even though they weren’t entirely happy with it — say its flaws can be remedied via a separate bill laying out more detailed rules and criteria for how the commission would work.
“People are unconformable with some aspects of this bipartisan commission,” said Del. Mark Sickles, D-Fairfax. “So it’s important to pass implementing legislation so there will be a better understanding of how the commission would work.”
The accompanying bill could include stronger measures to protect minority voting power. The amendment says the commission must comply with federal and state laws dealing with “racial and ethnic fairness,” including the Voting Rights Act. Supporters say duplicating Voting Rights Act-style protections in state law would safeguard against any future changes to federal law.
The bill could also ensure racial and geographic diversity on the commission.
“If we have all a bunch of white people from Northern Virginia, that would be a huge fail on a lot of levels,” Cannon said.
Bagby said he’s skeptical that the accompanying bill could resolve his concerns about the Supreme Court being the final arbiter in case of a deadlock.
“Something is not always better than nothing,” Bagby said. “What it appears we’re doing is we’re letting the same people that gerrymandered us for the last 20-plus years continue to do the same thing to us. Just with different hats on.”
Sorry. Nice try twisting yourself into a pretzel over this, but the leaders did a “full flop” by Politifact. When you’re done hyperventilating, give it a look. But I suspect you’ll say it’s “more lies”.
It wasn’t “unanimous” - a dozen Ds voted against it in 2019.
There were many objections about the flaws. Some Ds who voted yes the first time stated that they did so assuming that additional legislation would fix the flaws.
The Ds flipped several seats and a dozen new House members voted against it in 2020.
You have a very hard time with reading comprehension.
I said it was "overwhelmingly supported" in 2019. It was. Virginia Mercury and Politifact agree.
I said it was "nearly unanimous" in the 2019 vote. It was. Virginia Mercury and Politifact agree.
I never said anything about who voted against it in 2020 or why. I said that after regaining power in 2020, the Democratic Party of Virginia adopted and passed a resolution (overwhelmingly) against the amendment to end gerrymandering in Virginia. This was after their aforementioned overwhelming support and nearly unanimous vote in in favor of the exact same amendment to end gerrymandering in Virginia. They did. Virginia Mercury and Politifact agree.
Yes, the facts are crystal clear. You're simply being obtuse and it's getting exhausting.
What is exhausting is your intentional mischaracterization of what happened.
As I documented in my previous post:
It was not "almost unanimously" supported - there was a solid contingent who opposed it from the start.
There were objections about flaws in 2019. The same objections discussed again in 2020.
And they did not "fully" support it as you claimed.
All of this is a red herring though.
It does not matter how strongly committed the Ds were previously towards eliminating gerrymandering, because now we are ALL IN. I'm glad the Ds are finally developing a backbone to deal with the amoral Rs.
The POTUS must not have absolute power. Our government doesn’t work with if all three branches are corrupt.
OK got it. You're right. Virginia Mercury and Politifact got it all wrong. Democracy sucks and it must be defeated no matter what (or when you don't get your way)
Are you OK with Trump's actions?
Should Trump have absolute power?
If the GOP were willing to step up and curb his abhorrent behavior then we wouldn't be in this situation in the first place. But the corrupt Congress just lets him do whatever TF he wants, no matter how unethical, illegal, or unconstitutional.
Of course not, and of course not.
But as stated many times on this thread, rigging elections to stop election rigging is not the answer. Trying to save democracy while participating in its destruction is not the answer.
It’s just means you’re no better that what you claim to be fighting against. Your comments make this clear.
Hardly.
So what is the solution? Wait until the Republicans feel like admitting Trump did something wrong?
I don’t know, how about win elections by convincing voters your policies are better than the other side? I know that sounds crazy because the Dems have forgotten how to do that. “Fight MAGA”, “Stop Trump” is all they got, and now they’re back to gerrymandering and rigging elections to try to win.
So...Dems should ignore everything that Trump is doing so they can go back and work on campaign platforms and messaging? And hope for the best in 2028?
“Elections have consequences”. Do you remember who said that? Here’s a hint: he had a phone and a pen.
Interesting. You know, we just did have an election right here in VA last year.
Anonymous wrote:I’m an Independent and while I’m moderate in a lot of things, I am wholeheartedly a “Yes” on this. For the good of all.
I'm also an independent and moderate regarding many issues, which is why I wholeheartedly voted "No." For the good of all.
+1
It’s such a lie that it’s temporary for one. The district lines will stay in the new shapes, the old ones will never come back. That is 1000% clear. They mist chame the numbers slightly after the new census in a few years but the new districts will remain and never go back to previous.
Two wrongs don’t make a right. “Because TX did it”, is not a valid argument.
Trump is done soon. We will be stick with these nonsensical districts dividing small toens and counties into separate districts.
+1 The whole “restoring fairness” thing is such a shameful lie. If I ever hear any of these partisan hacks (Spanberger and Obama included) whining about “protecting democracy” again I’m gonna puke.
Rs love to pretend like they didn’t do anything wrong.
It's a response to the MAGA's power grab nationally.
Didn't hear you complaining about the Rs gerrymandering in TX, MO, NC, or UT.
Why the F would anyone on an anonymous DC message board complain about gerrymandering in those states, jackass? They didn’t complain about gerrymandering in CA, MD or IL either.
What a dumb comment
They isn’t about state legislators, it’s for the US Congress.
It’s a national issue, dipshit.
WTF are you babbling about? State legislators?
I guess you’re so outraged by gerrymandering in CA, IL and MD that you’re not thinking clearly.
It’s not a STATE issue, it’s a NATIONAL issue.
I fully support disenfranchising MAGAs given that Rs have already done that to Ds. We all know the VA GOP would not have hesitated to do it if they had the chance. In a heartbeat.
If you support disenfranchising ANYONE, you can never again claim the high ground of pretend to care about “protecting democracy.” All you care about is your party being in power. Not about democracy. It’s true that many Rs don’t care either, but Ds are the ones constantly claiming they’re protecting democracy.
+1 The dishonesty is incredible. PP is outraged by gerrymandering until it benefits their "side"
You are full of sht.
Ds have been pushing to ban gerrymandering for years.
Rs decide to go crazy with gerrymandering to protect Trump.
And think Ds should just sit around and NOT try to fight it?
You might be OK with Trump shitting all over our Constitution but most people are not.
No, PP. You’re full of shit and a perfect example of the dishonesty. In 2020, after gaining power again in the VA legislature, it was the Democratic Party of Virginia that passed a resolution AGAINST the amendment for the bipartisan commission and they urged voters to vote against it. They overwhelmingly supported it in 2019 when the Republicans had power, then flip flopped to keep redistricting power to themselves when they could. That happened. It’s indisputable. So spare us all the sanctimonious nonsense about only R’s pulling this sort of crap. Virginia Dems were guilty of trying it then and they’re guilty of trying the same shit now.
FACT: Dems have been pushing to ban gerrymandering for years.
Who has fought it? Rs.
The group of Dems who opposed the VA plan was concerned about the flaws, which turned out to be accurate. The Rs didn’t participate in good faith and the decision DID go to the conservative VA SC. So their concerns were warranted.
Rs decide to go crazy with gerrymandering to protect Trump.
And think Ds should just sit around and NOT try to fight it?
You might be OK with Trump shitting all over our Constitution but most people are not.
Just stop it. That's NOT what happened. IDGAF what happened in other states. In VA, the Dems overwhelmingly supported the amendment in 2019. It went thorough almost unanimously. There were ZERO objections about "flaws". Then once in power they reversed course. The amendment never changed, but all of a sudden there were BS "objections". They objected because they wanted to keep redistricting power in their own hands, plain and simple. And don't try to downplay it by saying it was "a group of Democrats". It was the Democratic Party of Virginia. They passed a resolution to oppose it after fully supporting it the year before. The DPVA urged voters to vote against the ending of gerrymandering in the state. These are the FACTS>
In the House, roughly a dozen Democrats opposed it, saying it left too much wiggle room for partisan gerrymandering and didn’t do enough to protect communities of color.
‘Just wanted to get something passed’
In a recent interview, Del. Lamont Bagby, D-Henrico, the chairman of the Virginia Legislative Black Caucus, said he still has strong reservations about the commission proposal.
“A lot of individuals that we trusted lost credibility by jumping on the first train that leaves the station,” Bagby said. “It was evident that African Americans weren’t fully considered. … And Republicans were taking advantage of individuals that just wanted to get something passed that was said to be redistricting reform.”
Bagby said he’s also concerned about the amendment’s backup mechanism if the commission or the General Assembly couldn’t agree on a redistricting plan. In that scenario, the Supreme Court of Virginia — which is appointed by the General Assembly — would draw the district lines.
“It’s been 20 years of Republicans putting members’ friends and family on the Supreme Court,” Bagby said. “I would not trust redistricting in the hands of the Supreme Court.”
The two most recent justices appointed to the state Supreme Court are Stephen McCullough, who once worked under former Republican Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli, and Teresa Chafin, the sister of state Sen. Ben Chafin, R-Russell.
Some Democrats who voted for the amendment this year — even though they weren’t entirely happy with it — say its flaws can be remedied via a separate bill laying out more detailed rules and criteria for how the commission would work.
“People are unconformable with some aspects of this bipartisan commission,” said Del. Mark Sickles, D-Fairfax. “So it’s important to pass implementing legislation so there will be a better understanding of how the commission would work.”
The accompanying bill could include stronger measures to protect minority voting power. The amendment says the commission must comply with federal and state laws dealing with “racial and ethnic fairness,” including the Voting Rights Act. Supporters say duplicating Voting Rights Act-style protections in state law would safeguard against any future changes to federal law.
The bill could also ensure racial and geographic diversity on the commission.
“If we have all a bunch of white people from Northern Virginia, that would be a huge fail on a lot of levels,” Cannon said.
Bagby said he’s skeptical that the accompanying bill could resolve his concerns about the Supreme Court being the final arbiter in case of a deadlock.
“Something is not always better than nothing,” Bagby said. “What it appears we’re doing is we’re letting the same people that gerrymandered us for the last 20-plus years continue to do the same thing to us. Just with different hats on.”
Sorry. Nice try twisting yourself into a pretzel over this, but the leaders did a “full flop” by Politifact. When you’re done hyperventilating, give it a look. But I suspect you’ll say it’s “more lies”.
It wasn’t “unanimous” - a dozen Ds voted against it in 2019.
There were many objections about the flaws. Some Ds who voted yes the first time stated that they did so assuming that additional legislation would fix the flaws.
The Ds flipped several seats and a dozen new House members voted against it in 2020.
You have a very hard time with reading comprehension.
I said it was "overwhelmingly supported" in 2019. It was. Virginia Mercury and Politifact agree.
I said it was "nearly unanimous" in the 2019 vote. It was. Virginia Mercury and Politifact agree.
I never said anything about who voted against it in 2020 or why. I said that after regaining power in 2020, the Democratic Party of Virginia adopted and passed a resolution (overwhelmingly) against the amendment to end gerrymandering in Virginia. This was after their aforementioned overwhelming support and nearly unanimous vote in in favor of the exact same amendment to end gerrymandering in Virginia. They did. Virginia Mercury and Politifact agree.
Yes, the facts are crystal clear. You're simply being obtuse and it's getting exhausting.
What is exhausting is your intentional mischaracterization of what happened.
As I documented in my previous post:
It was not "almost unanimously" supported - there was a solid contingent who opposed it from the start.
There were objections about flaws in 2019. The same objections discussed again in 2020.
And they did not "fully" support it as you claimed.
All of this is a red herring though.
It does not matter how strongly committed the Ds were previously towards eliminating gerrymandering, because now we are ALL IN. I'm glad the Ds are finally developing a backbone to deal with the amoral Rs.
The POTUS must not have absolute power. Our government doesn’t work with if all three branches are corrupt.
OK got it. You're right. Virginia Mercury and Politifact got it all wrong. Democracy sucks and it must be defeated no matter what (or when you don't get your way)
Are you OK with Trump's actions?
Should Trump have absolute power?
If the GOP were willing to step up and curb his abhorrent behavior then we wouldn't be in this situation in the first place. But the corrupt Congress just lets him do whatever TF he wants, no matter how unethical, illegal, or unconstitutional.
Of course not, and of course not.
But as stated many times on this thread, rigging elections to stop election rigging is not the answer. Trying to save democracy while participating in its destruction is not the answer.
It’s just means you’re no better that what you claim to be fighting against. Your comments make this clear.
Hardly.
So what is the solution? Wait until the Republicans feel like admitting Trump did something wrong?
I don’t know, how about win elections by convincing voters your policies are better than the other side? I know that sounds crazy because the Dems have forgotten how to do that. “Fight MAGA”, “Stop Trump” is all they got, and now they’re back to gerrymandering and rigging elections to try to win.
So...Dems should ignore everything that Trump is doing so they can go back and work on campaign platforms and messaging? And hope for the best in 2028?
“Elections have consequences”. Do you remember who said that? Here’s a hint: he had a phone and a pen.
So Dems should not do anything today to combat Trump's unethical, illegal, and unconstitutional actions?
I will be voting YES YES YES. It's one thing I can do to control this out of control maga admin.
Anonymous wrote:I’m an Independent and while I’m moderate in a lot of things, I am wholeheartedly a “Yes” on this. For the good of all.
I'm also an independent and moderate regarding many issues, which is why I wholeheartedly voted "No." For the good of all.
+1
It’s such a lie that it’s temporary for one. The district lines will stay in the new shapes, the old ones will never come back. That is 1000% clear. They mist chame the numbers slightly after the new census in a few years but the new districts will remain and never go back to previous.
Two wrongs don’t make a right. “Because TX did it”, is not a valid argument.
Trump is done soon. We will be stick with these nonsensical districts dividing small toens and counties into separate districts.
+1 The whole “restoring fairness” thing is such a shameful lie. If I ever hear any of these partisan hacks (Spanberger and Obama included) whining about “protecting democracy” again I’m gonna puke.
Rs love to pretend like they didn’t do anything wrong.
It's a response to the MAGA's power grab nationally.
Didn't hear you complaining about the Rs gerrymandering in TX, MO, NC, or UT.
Why the F would anyone on an anonymous DC message board complain about gerrymandering in those states, jackass? They didn’t complain about gerrymandering in CA, MD or IL either.
What a dumb comment
They isn’t about state legislators, it’s for the US Congress.
It’s a national issue, dipshit.
WTF are you babbling about? State legislators?
I guess you’re so outraged by gerrymandering in CA, IL and MD that you’re not thinking clearly.
It’s not a STATE issue, it’s a NATIONAL issue.
I fully support disenfranchising MAGAs given that Rs have already done that to Ds. We all know the VA GOP would not have hesitated to do it if they had the chance. In a heartbeat.
If you support disenfranchising ANYONE, you can never again claim the high ground of pretend to care about “protecting democracy.” All you care about is your party being in power. Not about democracy. It’s true that many Rs don’t care either, but Ds are the ones constantly claiming they’re protecting democracy.
+1 The dishonesty is incredible. PP is outraged by gerrymandering until it benefits their "side"
You are full of sht.
Ds have been pushing to ban gerrymandering for years.
Rs decide to go crazy with gerrymandering to protect Trump.
And think Ds should just sit around and NOT try to fight it?
You might be OK with Trump shitting all over our Constitution but most people are not.
No, PP. You’re full of shit and a perfect example of the dishonesty. In 2020, after gaining power again in the VA legislature, it was the Democratic Party of Virginia that passed a resolution AGAINST the amendment for the bipartisan commission and they urged voters to vote against it. They overwhelmingly supported it in 2019 when the Republicans had power, then flip flopped to keep redistricting power to themselves when they could. That happened. It’s indisputable. So spare us all the sanctimonious nonsense about only R’s pulling this sort of crap. Virginia Dems were guilty of trying it then and they’re guilty of trying the same shit now.
FACT: Dems have been pushing to ban gerrymandering for years.
Who has fought it? Rs.
The group of Dems who opposed the VA plan was concerned about the flaws, which turned out to be accurate. The Rs didn’t participate in good faith and the decision DID go to the conservative VA SC. So their concerns were warranted.
Rs decide to go crazy with gerrymandering to protect Trump.
And think Ds should just sit around and NOT try to fight it?
You might be OK with Trump shitting all over our Constitution but most people are not.
Just stop it. That's NOT what happened. IDGAF what happened in other states. In VA, the Dems overwhelmingly supported the amendment in 2019. It went thorough almost unanimously. There were ZERO objections about "flaws". Then once in power they reversed course. The amendment never changed, but all of a sudden there were BS "objections". They objected because they wanted to keep redistricting power in their own hands, plain and simple. And don't try to downplay it by saying it was "a group of Democrats". It was the Democratic Party of Virginia. They passed a resolution to oppose it after fully supporting it the year before. The DPVA urged voters to vote against the ending of gerrymandering in the state. These are the FACTS>
In the House, roughly a dozen Democrats opposed it, saying it left too much wiggle room for partisan gerrymandering and didn’t do enough to protect communities of color.
‘Just wanted to get something passed’
In a recent interview, Del. Lamont Bagby, D-Henrico, the chairman of the Virginia Legislative Black Caucus, said he still has strong reservations about the commission proposal.
“A lot of individuals that we trusted lost credibility by jumping on the first train that leaves the station,” Bagby said. “It was evident that African Americans weren’t fully considered. … And Republicans were taking advantage of individuals that just wanted to get something passed that was said to be redistricting reform.”
Bagby said he’s also concerned about the amendment’s backup mechanism if the commission or the General Assembly couldn’t agree on a redistricting plan. In that scenario, the Supreme Court of Virginia — which is appointed by the General Assembly — would draw the district lines.
“It’s been 20 years of Republicans putting members’ friends and family on the Supreme Court,” Bagby said. “I would not trust redistricting in the hands of the Supreme Court.”
The two most recent justices appointed to the state Supreme Court are Stephen McCullough, who once worked under former Republican Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli, and Teresa Chafin, the sister of state Sen. Ben Chafin, R-Russell.
Some Democrats who voted for the amendment this year — even though they weren’t entirely happy with it — say its flaws can be remedied via a separate bill laying out more detailed rules and criteria for how the commission would work.
“People are unconformable with some aspects of this bipartisan commission,” said Del. Mark Sickles, D-Fairfax. “So it’s important to pass implementing legislation so there will be a better understanding of how the commission would work.”
The accompanying bill could include stronger measures to protect minority voting power. The amendment says the commission must comply with federal and state laws dealing with “racial and ethnic fairness,” including the Voting Rights Act. Supporters say duplicating Voting Rights Act-style protections in state law would safeguard against any future changes to federal law.
The bill could also ensure racial and geographic diversity on the commission.
“If we have all a bunch of white people from Northern Virginia, that would be a huge fail on a lot of levels,” Cannon said.
Bagby said he’s skeptical that the accompanying bill could resolve his concerns about the Supreme Court being the final arbiter in case of a deadlock.
“Something is not always better than nothing,” Bagby said. “What it appears we’re doing is we’re letting the same people that gerrymandered us for the last 20-plus years continue to do the same thing to us. Just with different hats on.”
Sorry. Nice try twisting yourself into a pretzel over this, but the leaders did a “full flop” by Politifact. When you’re done hyperventilating, give it a look. But I suspect you’ll say it’s “more lies”.
It wasn’t “unanimous” - a dozen Ds voted against it in 2019.
There were many objections about the flaws. Some Ds who voted yes the first time stated that they did so assuming that additional legislation would fix the flaws.
The Ds flipped several seats and a dozen new House members voted against it in 2020.
You have a very hard time with reading comprehension.
I said it was "overwhelmingly supported" in 2019. It was. Virginia Mercury and Politifact agree.
I said it was "nearly unanimous" in the 2019 vote. It was. Virginia Mercury and Politifact agree.
I never said anything about who voted against it in 2020 or why. I said that after regaining power in 2020, the Democratic Party of Virginia adopted and passed a resolution (overwhelmingly) against the amendment to end gerrymandering in Virginia. This was after their aforementioned overwhelming support and nearly unanimous vote in in favor of the exact same amendment to end gerrymandering in Virginia. They did. Virginia Mercury and Politifact agree.
Yes, the facts are crystal clear. You're simply being obtuse and it's getting exhausting.
What is exhausting is your intentional mischaracterization of what happened.
As I documented in my previous post:
It was not "almost unanimously" supported - there was a solid contingent who opposed it from the start.
There were objections about flaws in 2019. The same objections discussed again in 2020.
And they did not "fully" support it as you claimed.
All of this is a red herring though.
It does not matter how strongly committed the Ds were previously towards eliminating gerrymandering, because now we are ALL IN. I'm glad the Ds are finally developing a backbone to deal with the amoral Rs.
The POTUS must not have absolute power. Our government doesn’t work with if all three branches are corrupt.
OK got it. You're right. Virginia Mercury and Politifact got it all wrong. Democracy sucks and it must be defeated no matter what (or when you don't get your way)
Are you OK with Trump's actions?
Should Trump have absolute power?
If the GOP were willing to step up and curb his abhorrent behavior then we wouldn't be in this situation in the first place. But the corrupt Congress just lets him do whatever TF he wants, no matter how unethical, illegal, or unconstitutional.
Of course not, and of course not.
But as stated many times on this thread, rigging elections to stop election rigging is not the answer. Trying to save democracy while participating in its destruction is not the answer.
It’s just means you’re no better that what you claim to be fighting against. Your comments make this clear.
Hardly.
So what is the solution? Wait until the Republicans feel like admitting Trump did something wrong?
I don’t know, how about win elections by convincing voters your policies are better than the other side? I know that sounds crazy because the Dems have forgotten how to do that. “Fight MAGA”, “Stop Trump” is all they got, and now they’re back to gerrymandering and rigging elections to try to win.
So...Dems should ignore everything that Trump is doing so they can go back and work on campaign platforms and messaging? And hope for the best in 2028?
“Elections have consequences”. Do you remember who said that? Here’s a hint: he had a phone and a pen.
Interesting. You know, we just did have an election right here in VA last year.
So I guess elections really do have consequences.
Yeah. What’s your point?
We have a kick ass governor who will support the Dem's effort to confront Trump's unethical, illegal, and unconstitutional behavior.
Anonymous wrote:I’m an Independent and while I’m moderate in a lot of things, I am wholeheartedly a “Yes” on this. For the good of all.
I'm also an independent and moderate regarding many issues, which is why I wholeheartedly voted "No." For the good of all.
+1
It’s such a lie that it’s temporary for one. The district lines will stay in the new shapes, the old ones will never come back. That is 1000% clear. They mist chame the numbers slightly after the new census in a few years but the new districts will remain and never go back to previous.
Two wrongs don’t make a right. “Because TX did it”, is not a valid argument.
Trump is done soon. We will be stick with these nonsensical districts dividing small toens and counties into separate districts.
+1 The whole “restoring fairness” thing is such a shameful lie. If I ever hear any of these partisan hacks (Spanberger and Obama included) whining about “protecting democracy” again I’m gonna puke.
Rs love to pretend like they didn’t do anything wrong.
It's a response to the MAGA's power grab nationally.
Didn't hear you complaining about the Rs gerrymandering in TX, MO, NC, or UT.
Why the F would anyone on an anonymous DC message board complain about gerrymandering in those states, jackass? They didn’t complain about gerrymandering in CA, MD or IL either.
What a dumb comment
They isn’t about state legislators, it’s for the US Congress.
It’s a national issue, dipshit.
WTF are you babbling about? State legislators?
I guess you’re so outraged by gerrymandering in CA, IL and MD that you’re not thinking clearly.
It’s not a STATE issue, it’s a NATIONAL issue.
I fully support disenfranchising MAGAs given that Rs have already done that to Ds. We all know the VA GOP would not have hesitated to do it if they had the chance. In a heartbeat.
If you support disenfranchising ANYONE, you can never again claim the high ground of pretend to care about “protecting democracy.” All you care about is your party being in power. Not about democracy. It’s true that many Rs don’t care either, but Ds are the ones constantly claiming they’re protecting democracy.
+1 The dishonesty is incredible. PP is outraged by gerrymandering until it benefits their "side"
You are full of sht.
Ds have been pushing to ban gerrymandering for years.
Rs decide to go crazy with gerrymandering to protect Trump.
And think Ds should just sit around and NOT try to fight it?
You might be OK with Trump shitting all over our Constitution but most people are not.
No, PP. You’re full of shit and a perfect example of the dishonesty. In 2020, after gaining power again in the VA legislature, it was the Democratic Party of Virginia that passed a resolution AGAINST the amendment for the bipartisan commission and they urged voters to vote against it. They overwhelmingly supported it in 2019 when the Republicans had power, then flip flopped to keep redistricting power to themselves when they could. That happened. It’s indisputable. So spare us all the sanctimonious nonsense about only R’s pulling this sort of crap. Virginia Dems were guilty of trying it then and they’re guilty of trying the same shit now.
FACT: Dems have been pushing to ban gerrymandering for years.
Who has fought it? Rs.
The group of Dems who opposed the VA plan was concerned about the flaws, which turned out to be accurate. The Rs didn’t participate in good faith and the decision DID go to the conservative VA SC. So their concerns were warranted.
Rs decide to go crazy with gerrymandering to protect Trump.
And think Ds should just sit around and NOT try to fight it?
You might be OK with Trump shitting all over our Constitution but most people are not.
Just stop it. That's NOT what happened. IDGAF what happened in other states. In VA, the Dems overwhelmingly supported the amendment in 2019. It went thorough almost unanimously. There were ZERO objections about "flaws". Then once in power they reversed course. The amendment never changed, but all of a sudden there were BS "objections". They objected because they wanted to keep redistricting power in their own hands, plain and simple. And don't try to downplay it by saying it was "a group of Democrats". It was the Democratic Party of Virginia. They passed a resolution to oppose it after fully supporting it the year before. The DPVA urged voters to vote against the ending of gerrymandering in the state. These are the FACTS>
In the House, roughly a dozen Democrats opposed it, saying it left too much wiggle room for partisan gerrymandering and didn’t do enough to protect communities of color.
‘Just wanted to get something passed’
In a recent interview, Del. Lamont Bagby, D-Henrico, the chairman of the Virginia Legislative Black Caucus, said he still has strong reservations about the commission proposal.
“A lot of individuals that we trusted lost credibility by jumping on the first train that leaves the station,” Bagby said. “It was evident that African Americans weren’t fully considered. … And Republicans were taking advantage of individuals that just wanted to get something passed that was said to be redistricting reform.”
Bagby said he’s also concerned about the amendment’s backup mechanism if the commission or the General Assembly couldn’t agree on a redistricting plan. In that scenario, the Supreme Court of Virginia — which is appointed by the General Assembly — would draw the district lines.
“It’s been 20 years of Republicans putting members’ friends and family on the Supreme Court,” Bagby said. “I would not trust redistricting in the hands of the Supreme Court.”
The two most recent justices appointed to the state Supreme Court are Stephen McCullough, who once worked under former Republican Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli, and Teresa Chafin, the sister of state Sen. Ben Chafin, R-Russell.
Some Democrats who voted for the amendment this year — even though they weren’t entirely happy with it — say its flaws can be remedied via a separate bill laying out more detailed rules and criteria for how the commission would work.
“People are unconformable with some aspects of this bipartisan commission,” said Del. Mark Sickles, D-Fairfax. “So it’s important to pass implementing legislation so there will be a better understanding of how the commission would work.”
The accompanying bill could include stronger measures to protect minority voting power. The amendment says the commission must comply with federal and state laws dealing with “racial and ethnic fairness,” including the Voting Rights Act. Supporters say duplicating Voting Rights Act-style protections in state law would safeguard against any future changes to federal law.
The bill could also ensure racial and geographic diversity on the commission.
“If we have all a bunch of white people from Northern Virginia, that would be a huge fail on a lot of levels,” Cannon said.
Bagby said he’s skeptical that the accompanying bill could resolve his concerns about the Supreme Court being the final arbiter in case of a deadlock.
“Something is not always better than nothing,” Bagby said. “What it appears we’re doing is we’re letting the same people that gerrymandered us for the last 20-plus years continue to do the same thing to us. Just with different hats on.”
Sorry. Nice try twisting yourself into a pretzel over this, but the leaders did a “full flop” by Politifact. When you’re done hyperventilating, give it a look. But I suspect you’ll say it’s “more lies”.
It wasn’t “unanimous” - a dozen Ds voted against it in 2019.
There were many objections about the flaws. Some Ds who voted yes the first time stated that they did so assuming that additional legislation would fix the flaws.
The Ds flipped several seats and a dozen new House members voted against it in 2020.
You have a very hard time with reading comprehension.
I said it was "overwhelmingly supported" in 2019. It was. Virginia Mercury and Politifact agree.
I said it was "nearly unanimous" in the 2019 vote. It was. Virginia Mercury and Politifact agree.
I never said anything about who voted against it in 2020 or why. I said that after regaining power in 2020, the Democratic Party of Virginia adopted and passed a resolution (overwhelmingly) against the amendment to end gerrymandering in Virginia. This was after their aforementioned overwhelming support and nearly unanimous vote in in favor of the exact same amendment to end gerrymandering in Virginia. They did. Virginia Mercury and Politifact agree.
Yes, the facts are crystal clear. You're simply being obtuse and it's getting exhausting.
What is exhausting is your intentional mischaracterization of what happened.
As I documented in my previous post:
It was not "almost unanimously" supported - there was a solid contingent who opposed it from the start.
There were objections about flaws in 2019. The same objections discussed again in 2020.
And they did not "fully" support it as you claimed.
All of this is a red herring though.
It does not matter how strongly committed the Ds were previously towards eliminating gerrymandering, because now we are ALL IN. I'm glad the Ds are finally developing a backbone to deal with the amoral Rs.
The POTUS must not have absolute power. Our government doesn’t work with if all three branches are corrupt.
OK got it. You're right. Virginia Mercury and Politifact got it all wrong. Democracy sucks and it must be defeated no matter what (or when you don't get your way)
Are you OK with Trump's actions?
Should Trump have absolute power?
If the GOP were willing to step up and curb his abhorrent behavior then we wouldn't be in this situation in the first place. But the corrupt Congress just lets him do whatever TF he wants, no matter how unethical, illegal, or unconstitutional.
Of course not, and of course not.
But as stated many times on this thread, rigging elections to stop election rigging is not the answer. Trying to save democracy while participating in its destruction is not the answer.
It’s just means you’re no better that what you claim to be fighting against. Your comments make this clear.
Hardly.
So what is the solution? Wait until the Republicans feel like admitting Trump did something wrong?
I don’t know, how about win elections by convincing voters your policies are better than the other side? I know that sounds crazy because the Dems have forgotten how to do that. “Fight MAGA”, “Stop Trump” is all they got, and now they’re back to gerrymandering and rigging elections to try to win.
So...Dems should ignore everything that Trump is doing so they can go back and work on campaign platforms and messaging? And hope for the best in 2028?
“Elections have consequences”. Do you remember who said that? Here’s a hint: he had a phone and a pen.
Interesting. You know, we just did have an election right here in VA last year.
So I guess elections really do have consequences.
Yeah. What’s your point?
We have a kick ass governor who will support the Dem's effort to confront Trump's unethical, illegal, and unconstitutional behavior.
Vote YES.
OK. Considering she flip flopped on her support for this anti-democratic amendment (among other things), she's probably not a great example. But I suspect if you're OK with partisan gerrymandering that disenfranchises your fellow Virginians, a bait and switch on the campaign trail is A-OK with you. The end justifies the means after all
Anonymous wrote:I’m an Independent and while I’m moderate in a lot of things, I am wholeheartedly a “Yes” on this. For the good of all.
I'm also an independent and moderate regarding many issues, which is why I wholeheartedly voted "No." For the good of all.
+1
It’s such a lie that it’s temporary for one. The district lines will stay in the new shapes, the old ones will never come back. That is 1000% clear. They mist chame the numbers slightly after the new census in a few years but the new districts will remain and never go back to previous.
Two wrongs don’t make a right. “Because TX did it”, is not a valid argument.
Trump is done soon. We will be stick with these nonsensical districts dividing small toens and counties into separate districts.
+1 The whole “restoring fairness” thing is such a shameful lie. If I ever hear any of these partisan hacks (Spanberger and Obama included) whining about “protecting democracy” again I’m gonna puke.
Rs love to pretend like they didn’t do anything wrong.
It's a response to the MAGA's power grab nationally.
Didn't hear you complaining about the Rs gerrymandering in TX, MO, NC, or UT.
Why the F would anyone on an anonymous DC message board complain about gerrymandering in those states, jackass? They didn’t complain about gerrymandering in CA, MD or IL either.
What a dumb comment
They isn’t about state legislators, it’s for the US Congress.
It’s a national issue, dipshit.
WTF are you babbling about? State legislators?
I guess you’re so outraged by gerrymandering in CA, IL and MD that you’re not thinking clearly.
It’s not a STATE issue, it’s a NATIONAL issue.
I fully support disenfranchising MAGAs given that Rs have already done that to Ds. We all know the VA GOP would not have hesitated to do it if they had the chance. In a heartbeat.
If you support disenfranchising ANYONE, you can never again claim the high ground of pretend to care about “protecting democracy.” All you care about is your party being in power. Not about democracy. It’s true that many Rs don’t care either, but Ds are the ones constantly claiming they’re protecting democracy.
+1 The dishonesty is incredible. PP is outraged by gerrymandering until it benefits their "side"
You are full of sht.
Ds have been pushing to ban gerrymandering for years.
Rs decide to go crazy with gerrymandering to protect Trump.
And think Ds should just sit around and NOT try to fight it?
You might be OK with Trump shitting all over our Constitution but most people are not.
No, PP. You’re full of shit and a perfect example of the dishonesty. In 2020, after gaining power again in the VA legislature, it was the Democratic Party of Virginia that passed a resolution AGAINST the amendment for the bipartisan commission and they urged voters to vote against it. They overwhelmingly supported it in 2019 when the Republicans had power, then flip flopped to keep redistricting power to themselves when they could. That happened. It’s indisputable. So spare us all the sanctimonious nonsense about only R’s pulling this sort of crap. Virginia Dems were guilty of trying it then and they’re guilty of trying the same shit now.
FACT: Dems have been pushing to ban gerrymandering for years.
Who has fought it? Rs.
The group of Dems who opposed the VA plan was concerned about the flaws, which turned out to be accurate. The Rs didn’t participate in good faith and the decision DID go to the conservative VA SC. So their concerns were warranted.
Rs decide to go crazy with gerrymandering to protect Trump.
And think Ds should just sit around and NOT try to fight it?
You might be OK with Trump shitting all over our Constitution but most people are not.
Just stop it. That's NOT what happened. IDGAF what happened in other states. In VA, the Dems overwhelmingly supported the amendment in 2019. It went thorough almost unanimously. There were ZERO objections about "flaws". Then once in power they reversed course. The amendment never changed, but all of a sudden there were BS "objections". They objected because they wanted to keep redistricting power in their own hands, plain and simple. And don't try to downplay it by saying it was "a group of Democrats". It was the Democratic Party of Virginia. They passed a resolution to oppose it after fully supporting it the year before. The DPVA urged voters to vote against the ending of gerrymandering in the state. These are the FACTS>
In the House, roughly a dozen Democrats opposed it, saying it left too much wiggle room for partisan gerrymandering and didn’t do enough to protect communities of color.
‘Just wanted to get something passed’
In a recent interview, Del. Lamont Bagby, D-Henrico, the chairman of the Virginia Legislative Black Caucus, said he still has strong reservations about the commission proposal.
“A lot of individuals that we trusted lost credibility by jumping on the first train that leaves the station,” Bagby said. “It was evident that African Americans weren’t fully considered. … And Republicans were taking advantage of individuals that just wanted to get something passed that was said to be redistricting reform.”
Bagby said he’s also concerned about the amendment’s backup mechanism if the commission or the General Assembly couldn’t agree on a redistricting plan. In that scenario, the Supreme Court of Virginia — which is appointed by the General Assembly — would draw the district lines.
“It’s been 20 years of Republicans putting members’ friends and family on the Supreme Court,” Bagby said. “I would not trust redistricting in the hands of the Supreme Court.”
The two most recent justices appointed to the state Supreme Court are Stephen McCullough, who once worked under former Republican Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli, and Teresa Chafin, the sister of state Sen. Ben Chafin, R-Russell.
Some Democrats who voted for the amendment this year — even though they weren’t entirely happy with it — say its flaws can be remedied via a separate bill laying out more detailed rules and criteria for how the commission would work.
“People are unconformable with some aspects of this bipartisan commission,” said Del. Mark Sickles, D-Fairfax. “So it’s important to pass implementing legislation so there will be a better understanding of how the commission would work.”
The accompanying bill could include stronger measures to protect minority voting power. The amendment says the commission must comply with federal and state laws dealing with “racial and ethnic fairness,” including the Voting Rights Act. Supporters say duplicating Voting Rights Act-style protections in state law would safeguard against any future changes to federal law.
The bill could also ensure racial and geographic diversity on the commission.
“If we have all a bunch of white people from Northern Virginia, that would be a huge fail on a lot of levels,” Cannon said.
Bagby said he’s skeptical that the accompanying bill could resolve his concerns about the Supreme Court being the final arbiter in case of a deadlock.
“Something is not always better than nothing,” Bagby said. “What it appears we’re doing is we’re letting the same people that gerrymandered us for the last 20-plus years continue to do the same thing to us. Just with different hats on.”
Sorry. Nice try twisting yourself into a pretzel over this, but the leaders did a “full flop” by Politifact. When you’re done hyperventilating, give it a look. But I suspect you’ll say it’s “more lies”.
It wasn’t “unanimous” - a dozen Ds voted against it in 2019.
There were many objections about the flaws. Some Ds who voted yes the first time stated that they did so assuming that additional legislation would fix the flaws.
The Ds flipped several seats and a dozen new House members voted against it in 2020.
You have a very hard time with reading comprehension.
I said it was "overwhelmingly supported" in 2019. It was. Virginia Mercury and Politifact agree.
I said it was "nearly unanimous" in the 2019 vote. It was. Virginia Mercury and Politifact agree.
I never said anything about who voted against it in 2020 or why. I said that after regaining power in 2020, the Democratic Party of Virginia adopted and passed a resolution (overwhelmingly) against the amendment to end gerrymandering in Virginia. This was after their aforementioned overwhelming support and nearly unanimous vote in in favor of the exact same amendment to end gerrymandering in Virginia. They did. Virginia Mercury and Politifact agree.
Yes, the facts are crystal clear. You're simply being obtuse and it's getting exhausting.
What is exhausting is your intentional mischaracterization of what happened.
As I documented in my previous post:
It was not "almost unanimously" supported - there was a solid contingent who opposed it from the start.
There were objections about flaws in 2019. The same objections discussed again in 2020.
And they did not "fully" support it as you claimed.
All of this is a red herring though.
It does not matter how strongly committed the Ds were previously towards eliminating gerrymandering, because now we are ALL IN. I'm glad the Ds are finally developing a backbone to deal with the amoral Rs.
The POTUS must not have absolute power. Our government doesn’t work with if all three branches are corrupt.
OK got it. You're right. Virginia Mercury and Politifact got it all wrong. Democracy sucks and it must be defeated no matter what (or when you don't get your way)
Are you OK with Trump's actions?
Should Trump have absolute power?
If the GOP were willing to step up and curb his abhorrent behavior then we wouldn't be in this situation in the first place. But the corrupt Congress just lets him do whatever TF he wants, no matter how unethical, illegal, or unconstitutional.
Of course not, and of course not.
But as stated many times on this thread, rigging elections to stop election rigging is not the answer. Trying to save democracy while participating in its destruction is not the answer.
It’s just means you’re no better that what you claim to be fighting against. Your comments make this clear.
Hardly.
So what is the solution? Wait until the Republicans feel like admitting Trump did something wrong?
I don’t know, how about win elections by convincing voters your policies are better than the other side? I know that sounds crazy because the Dems have forgotten how to do that. “Fight MAGA”, “Stop Trump” is all they got, and now they’re back to gerrymandering and rigging elections to try to win.
So...Dems should ignore everything that Trump is doing so they can go back and work on campaign platforms and messaging? And hope for the best in 2028?
“Elections have consequences”. Do you remember who said that? Here’s a hint: he had a phone and a pen.
Interesting. You know, we just did have an election right here in VA last year.
So I guess elections really do have consequences.
Yeah. What’s your point?
We have a kick ass governor who will support the Dem's effort to confront Trump's unethical, illegal, and unconstitutional behavior.
Vote YES.
OK. Considering she flip flopped on her support for this anti-democratic amendment (among other things), she's probably not a great example. But I suspect if you're OK with partisan gerrymandering that disenfranchises your fellow Virginians, a bait and switch on the campaign trail is A-OK with you. The end justifies the means after all
In general, I support a federal ban on gerrymandering, but I'm OK with gerrymandering in this specific situation -- the GOP is not doing anything to control Trump.
If you can push the GOP to rein in Trump then I'll vote no. But I don't see the GOP doing anything to stop him from his unethical, illegal, and unconstitutional behavior, so it's a YES for me.
Anonymous wrote:I’m an Independent and while I’m moderate in a lot of things, I am wholeheartedly a “Yes” on this. For the good of all.
I'm also an independent and moderate regarding many issues, which is why I wholeheartedly voted "No." For the good of all.
+1
It’s such a lie that it’s temporary for one. The district lines will stay in the new shapes, the old ones will never come back. That is 1000% clear. They mist chame the numbers slightly after the new census in a few years but the new districts will remain and never go back to previous.
Two wrongs don’t make a right. “Because TX did it”, is not a valid argument.
Trump is done soon. We will be stick with these nonsensical districts dividing small toens and counties into separate districts.
+1 The whole “restoring fairness” thing is such a shameful lie. If I ever hear any of these partisan hacks (Spanberger and Obama included) whining about “protecting democracy” again I’m gonna puke.
Rs love to pretend like they didn’t do anything wrong.
It's a response to the MAGA's power grab nationally.
Didn't hear you complaining about the Rs gerrymandering in TX, MO, NC, or UT.
Why the F would anyone on an anonymous DC message board complain about gerrymandering in those states, jackass? They didn’t complain about gerrymandering in CA, MD or IL either.
What a dumb comment
They isn’t about state legislators, it’s for the US Congress.
It’s a national issue, dipshit.
WTF are you babbling about? State legislators?
I guess you’re so outraged by gerrymandering in CA, IL and MD that you’re not thinking clearly.
It’s not a STATE issue, it’s a NATIONAL issue.
I fully support disenfranchising MAGAs given that Rs have already done that to Ds. We all know the VA GOP would not have hesitated to do it if they had the chance. In a heartbeat.
If you support disenfranchising ANYONE, you can never again claim the high ground of pretend to care about “protecting democracy.” All you care about is your party being in power. Not about democracy. It’s true that many Rs don’t care either, but Ds are the ones constantly claiming they’re protecting democracy.
+1 The dishonesty is incredible. PP is outraged by gerrymandering until it benefits their "side"
You are full of sht.
Ds have been pushing to ban gerrymandering for years.
Rs decide to go crazy with gerrymandering to protect Trump.
And think Ds should just sit around and NOT try to fight it?
You might be OK with Trump shitting all over our Constitution but most people are not.
No, PP. You’re full of shit and a perfect example of the dishonesty. In 2020, after gaining power again in the VA legislature, it was the Democratic Party of Virginia that passed a resolution AGAINST the amendment for the bipartisan commission and they urged voters to vote against it. They overwhelmingly supported it in 2019 when the Republicans had power, then flip flopped to keep redistricting power to themselves when they could. That happened. It’s indisputable. So spare us all the sanctimonious nonsense about only R’s pulling this sort of crap. Virginia Dems were guilty of trying it then and they’re guilty of trying the same shit now.
FACT: Dems have been pushing to ban gerrymandering for years.
Who has fought it? Rs.
The group of Dems who opposed the VA plan was concerned about the flaws, which turned out to be accurate. The Rs didn’t participate in good faith and the decision DID go to the conservative VA SC. So their concerns were warranted.
Rs decide to go crazy with gerrymandering to protect Trump.
And think Ds should just sit around and NOT try to fight it?
You might be OK with Trump shitting all over our Constitution but most people are not.
Just stop it. That's NOT what happened. IDGAF what happened in other states. In VA, the Dems overwhelmingly supported the amendment in 2019. It went thorough almost unanimously. There were ZERO objections about "flaws". Then once in power they reversed course. The amendment never changed, but all of a sudden there were BS "objections". They objected because they wanted to keep redistricting power in their own hands, plain and simple. And don't try to downplay it by saying it was "a group of Democrats". It was the Democratic Party of Virginia. They passed a resolution to oppose it after fully supporting it the year before. The DPVA urged voters to vote against the ending of gerrymandering in the state. These are the FACTS>
In the House, roughly a dozen Democrats opposed it, saying it left too much wiggle room for partisan gerrymandering and didn’t do enough to protect communities of color.
‘Just wanted to get something passed’
In a recent interview, Del. Lamont Bagby, D-Henrico, the chairman of the Virginia Legislative Black Caucus, said he still has strong reservations about the commission proposal.
“A lot of individuals that we trusted lost credibility by jumping on the first train that leaves the station,” Bagby said. “It was evident that African Americans weren’t fully considered. … And Republicans were taking advantage of individuals that just wanted to get something passed that was said to be redistricting reform.”
Bagby said he’s also concerned about the amendment’s backup mechanism if the commission or the General Assembly couldn’t agree on a redistricting plan. In that scenario, the Supreme Court of Virginia — which is appointed by the General Assembly — would draw the district lines.
“It’s been 20 years of Republicans putting members’ friends and family on the Supreme Court,” Bagby said. “I would not trust redistricting in the hands of the Supreme Court.”
The two most recent justices appointed to the state Supreme Court are Stephen McCullough, who once worked under former Republican Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli, and Teresa Chafin, the sister of state Sen. Ben Chafin, R-Russell.
Some Democrats who voted for the amendment this year — even though they weren’t entirely happy with it — say its flaws can be remedied via a separate bill laying out more detailed rules and criteria for how the commission would work.
“People are unconformable with some aspects of this bipartisan commission,” said Del. Mark Sickles, D-Fairfax. “So it’s important to pass implementing legislation so there will be a better understanding of how the commission would work.”
The accompanying bill could include stronger measures to protect minority voting power. The amendment says the commission must comply with federal and state laws dealing with “racial and ethnic fairness,” including the Voting Rights Act. Supporters say duplicating Voting Rights Act-style protections in state law would safeguard against any future changes to federal law.
The bill could also ensure racial and geographic diversity on the commission.
“If we have all a bunch of white people from Northern Virginia, that would be a huge fail on a lot of levels,” Cannon said.
Bagby said he’s skeptical that the accompanying bill could resolve his concerns about the Supreme Court being the final arbiter in case of a deadlock.
“Something is not always better than nothing,” Bagby said. “What it appears we’re doing is we’re letting the same people that gerrymandered us for the last 20-plus years continue to do the same thing to us. Just with different hats on.”
Sorry. Nice try twisting yourself into a pretzel over this, but the leaders did a “full flop” by Politifact. When you’re done hyperventilating, give it a look. But I suspect you’ll say it’s “more lies”.
It wasn’t “unanimous” - a dozen Ds voted against it in 2019.
There were many objections about the flaws. Some Ds who voted yes the first time stated that they did so assuming that additional legislation would fix the flaws.
The Ds flipped several seats and a dozen new House members voted against it in 2020.
You have a very hard time with reading comprehension.
I said it was "overwhelmingly supported" in 2019. It was. Virginia Mercury and Politifact agree.
I said it was "nearly unanimous" in the 2019 vote. It was. Virginia Mercury and Politifact agree.
I never said anything about who voted against it in 2020 or why. I said that after regaining power in 2020, the Democratic Party of Virginia adopted and passed a resolution (overwhelmingly) against the amendment to end gerrymandering in Virginia. This was after their aforementioned overwhelming support and nearly unanimous vote in in favor of the exact same amendment to end gerrymandering in Virginia. They did. Virginia Mercury and Politifact agree.
Yes, the facts are crystal clear. You're simply being obtuse and it's getting exhausting.
What is exhausting is your intentional mischaracterization of what happened.
As I documented in my previous post:
It was not "almost unanimously" supported - there was a solid contingent who opposed it from the start.
There were objections about flaws in 2019. The same objections discussed again in 2020.
And they did not "fully" support it as you claimed.
All of this is a red herring though.
It does not matter how strongly committed the Ds were previously towards eliminating gerrymandering, because now we are ALL IN. I'm glad the Ds are finally developing a backbone to deal with the amoral Rs.
The POTUS must not have absolute power. Our government doesn’t work with if all three branches are corrupt.
OK got it. You're right. Virginia Mercury and Politifact got it all wrong. Democracy sucks and it must be defeated no matter what (or when you don't get your way)
Are you OK with Trump's actions?
Should Trump have absolute power?
If the GOP were willing to step up and curb his abhorrent behavior then we wouldn't be in this situation in the first place. But the corrupt Congress just lets him do whatever TF he wants, no matter how unethical, illegal, or unconstitutional.
What actions has he taken that you are speaking of? Be specific.
Take your pick. How about the military strikes on Iran without notifying Congress in advance or getting congressional approval?
Anonymous wrote:I’m an Independent and while I’m moderate in a lot of things, I am wholeheartedly a “Yes” on this. For the good of all.
I'm also an independent and moderate regarding many issues, which is why I wholeheartedly voted "No." For the good of all.
+1
It’s such a lie that it’s temporary for one. The district lines will stay in the new shapes, the old ones will never come back. That is 1000% clear. They mist chame the numbers slightly after the new census in a few years but the new districts will remain and never go back to previous.
Two wrongs don’t make a right. “Because TX did it”, is not a valid argument.
Trump is done soon. We will be stick with these nonsensical districts dividing small toens and counties into separate districts.
+1 The whole “restoring fairness” thing is such a shameful lie. If I ever hear any of these partisan hacks (Spanberger and Obama included) whining about “protecting democracy” again I’m gonna puke.
Rs love to pretend like they didn’t do anything wrong.
It's a response to the MAGA's power grab nationally.
Didn't hear you complaining about the Rs gerrymandering in TX, MO, NC, or UT.
Why the F would anyone on an anonymous DC message board complain about gerrymandering in those states, jackass? They didn’t complain about gerrymandering in CA, MD or IL either.
What a dumb comment
They isn’t about state legislators, it’s for the US Congress.
It’s a national issue, dipshit.
WTF are you babbling about? State legislators?
I guess you’re so outraged by gerrymandering in CA, IL and MD that you’re not thinking clearly.
It’s not a STATE issue, it’s a NATIONAL issue.
I fully support disenfranchising MAGAs given that Rs have already done that to Ds. We all know the VA GOP would not have hesitated to do it if they had the chance. In a heartbeat.
If you support disenfranchising ANYONE, you can never again claim the high ground of pretend to care about “protecting democracy.” All you care about is your party being in power. Not about democracy. It’s true that many Rs don’t care either, but Ds are the ones constantly claiming they’re protecting democracy.
+1 The dishonesty is incredible. PP is outraged by gerrymandering until it benefits their "side"
You are full of sht.
Ds have been pushing to ban gerrymandering for years.
Rs decide to go crazy with gerrymandering to protect Trump.
And think Ds should just sit around and NOT try to fight it?
You might be OK with Trump shitting all over our Constitution but most people are not.
No, PP. You’re full of shit and a perfect example of the dishonesty. In 2020, after gaining power again in the VA legislature, it was the Democratic Party of Virginia that passed a resolution AGAINST the amendment for the bipartisan commission and they urged voters to vote against it. They overwhelmingly supported it in 2019 when the Republicans had power, then flip flopped to keep redistricting power to themselves when they could. That happened. It’s indisputable. So spare us all the sanctimonious nonsense about only R’s pulling this sort of crap. Virginia Dems were guilty of trying it then and they’re guilty of trying the same shit now.
FACT: Dems have been pushing to ban gerrymandering for years.
Who has fought it? Rs.
The group of Dems who opposed the VA plan was concerned about the flaws, which turned out to be accurate. The Rs didn’t participate in good faith and the decision DID go to the conservative VA SC. So their concerns were warranted.
Rs decide to go crazy with gerrymandering to protect Trump.
And think Ds should just sit around and NOT try to fight it?
You might be OK with Trump shitting all over our Constitution but most people are not.
Just stop it. That's NOT what happened. IDGAF what happened in other states. In VA, the Dems overwhelmingly supported the amendment in 2019. It went thorough almost unanimously. There were ZERO objections about "flaws". Then once in power they reversed course. The amendment never changed, but all of a sudden there were BS "objections". They objected because they wanted to keep redistricting power in their own hands, plain and simple. And don't try to downplay it by saying it was "a group of Democrats". It was the Democratic Party of Virginia. They passed a resolution to oppose it after fully supporting it the year before. The DPVA urged voters to vote against the ending of gerrymandering in the state. These are the FACTS>
In the House, roughly a dozen Democrats opposed it, saying it left too much wiggle room for partisan gerrymandering and didn’t do enough to protect communities of color.
‘Just wanted to get something passed’
In a recent interview, Del. Lamont Bagby, D-Henrico, the chairman of the Virginia Legislative Black Caucus, said he still has strong reservations about the commission proposal.
“A lot of individuals that we trusted lost credibility by jumping on the first train that leaves the station,” Bagby said. “It was evident that African Americans weren’t fully considered. … And Republicans were taking advantage of individuals that just wanted to get something passed that was said to be redistricting reform.”
Bagby said he’s also concerned about the amendment’s backup mechanism if the commission or the General Assembly couldn’t agree on a redistricting plan. In that scenario, the Supreme Court of Virginia — which is appointed by the General Assembly — would draw the district lines.
“It’s been 20 years of Republicans putting members’ friends and family on the Supreme Court,” Bagby said. “I would not trust redistricting in the hands of the Supreme Court.”
The two most recent justices appointed to the state Supreme Court are Stephen McCullough, who once worked under former Republican Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli, and Teresa Chafin, the sister of state Sen. Ben Chafin, R-Russell.
Some Democrats who voted for the amendment this year — even though they weren’t entirely happy with it — say its flaws can be remedied via a separate bill laying out more detailed rules and criteria for how the commission would work.
“People are unconformable with some aspects of this bipartisan commission,” said Del. Mark Sickles, D-Fairfax. “So it’s important to pass implementing legislation so there will be a better understanding of how the commission would work.”
The accompanying bill could include stronger measures to protect minority voting power. The amendment says the commission must comply with federal and state laws dealing with “racial and ethnic fairness,” including the Voting Rights Act. Supporters say duplicating Voting Rights Act-style protections in state law would safeguard against any future changes to federal law.
The bill could also ensure racial and geographic diversity on the commission.
“If we have all a bunch of white people from Northern Virginia, that would be a huge fail on a lot of levels,” Cannon said.
Bagby said he’s skeptical that the accompanying bill could resolve his concerns about the Supreme Court being the final arbiter in case of a deadlock.
“Something is not always better than nothing,” Bagby said. “What it appears we’re doing is we’re letting the same people that gerrymandered us for the last 20-plus years continue to do the same thing to us. Just with different hats on.”
Sorry. Nice try twisting yourself into a pretzel over this, but the leaders did a “full flop” by Politifact. When you’re done hyperventilating, give it a look. But I suspect you’ll say it’s “more lies”.
It wasn’t “unanimous” - a dozen Ds voted against it in 2019.
There were many objections about the flaws. Some Ds who voted yes the first time stated that they did so assuming that additional legislation would fix the flaws.
The Ds flipped several seats and a dozen new House members voted against it in 2020.
You have a very hard time with reading comprehension.
I said it was "overwhelmingly supported" in 2019. It was. Virginia Mercury and Politifact agree.
I said it was "nearly unanimous" in the 2019 vote. It was. Virginia Mercury and Politifact agree.
I never said anything about who voted against it in 2020 or why. I said that after regaining power in 2020, the Democratic Party of Virginia adopted and passed a resolution (overwhelmingly) against the amendment to end gerrymandering in Virginia. This was after their aforementioned overwhelming support and nearly unanimous vote in in favor of the exact same amendment to end gerrymandering in Virginia. They did. Virginia Mercury and Politifact agree.
Yes, the facts are crystal clear. You're simply being obtuse and it's getting exhausting.
What is exhausting is your intentional mischaracterization of what happened.
As I documented in my previous post:
It was not "almost unanimously" supported - there was a solid contingent who opposed it from the start.
There were objections about flaws in 2019. The same objections discussed again in 2020.
And they did not "fully" support it as you claimed.
All of this is a red herring though.
It does not matter how strongly committed the Ds were previously towards eliminating gerrymandering, because now we are ALL IN. I'm glad the Ds are finally developing a backbone to deal with the amoral Rs.
The POTUS must not have absolute power. Our government doesn’t work with if all three branches are corrupt.
OK got it. You're right. Virginia Mercury and Politifact got it all wrong. Democracy sucks and it must be defeated no matter what (or when you don't get your way)
Are you OK with Trump's actions?
Should Trump have absolute power?
If the GOP were willing to step up and curb his abhorrent behavior then we wouldn't be in this situation in the first place. But the corrupt Congress just lets him do whatever TF he wants, no matter how unethical, illegal, or unconstitutional.
What actions has he taken that you are speaking of? Be specific.
Take your pick. How about the military strikes on Iran without notifying Congress in advance or getting congressional approval?
I don’t live in Virginia but I very much want to vote “yes” for this ballot question. I don’t really know much about American elections - is there a provision that allows people other than Virginians to vote on this also? It seems like a national/international issue given the ramifications regarding control of Congress. So it only seems fair that anyone potentially affected should also be able to have a say. If I can’t vote, what are my options to help it get passed?
Anonymous wrote:I’m an Independent and while I’m moderate in a lot of things, I am wholeheartedly a “Yes” on this. For the good of all.
I'm also an independent and moderate regarding many issues, which is why I wholeheartedly voted "No." For the good of all.
+1
It’s such a lie that it’s temporary for one. The district lines will stay in the new shapes, the old ones will never come back. That is 1000% clear. They mist chame the numbers slightly after the new census in a few years but the new districts will remain and never go back to previous.
Two wrongs don’t make a right. “Because TX did it”, is not a valid argument.
Trump is done soon. We will be stick with these nonsensical districts dividing small toens and counties into separate districts.
+1 The whole “restoring fairness” thing is such a shameful lie. If I ever hear any of these partisan hacks (Spanberger and Obama included) whining about “protecting democracy” again I’m gonna puke.
Rs love to pretend like they didn’t do anything wrong.
It's a response to the MAGA's power grab nationally.
Didn't hear you complaining about the Rs gerrymandering in TX, MO, NC, or UT.
Why the F would anyone on an anonymous DC message board complain about gerrymandering in those states, jackass? They didn’t complain about gerrymandering in CA, MD or IL either.
What a dumb comment
They isn’t about state legislators, it’s for the US Congress.
It’s a national issue, dipshit.
WTF are you babbling about? State legislators?
I guess you’re so outraged by gerrymandering in CA, IL and MD that you’re not thinking clearly.
It’s not a STATE issue, it’s a NATIONAL issue.
I fully support disenfranchising MAGAs given that Rs have already done that to Ds. We all know the VA GOP would not have hesitated to do it if they had the chance. In a heartbeat.
If you support disenfranchising ANYONE, you can never again claim the high ground of pretend to care about “protecting democracy.” All you care about is your party being in power. Not about democracy. It’s true that many Rs don’t care either, but Ds are the ones constantly claiming they’re protecting democracy.
+1 The dishonesty is incredible. PP is outraged by gerrymandering until it benefits their "side"
You are full of sht.
Ds have been pushing to ban gerrymandering for years.
Rs decide to go crazy with gerrymandering to protect Trump.
And think Ds should just sit around and NOT try to fight it?
You might be OK with Trump shitting all over our Constitution but most people are not.
No, PP. You’re full of shit and a perfect example of the dishonesty. In 2020, after gaining power again in the VA legislature, it was the Democratic Party of Virginia that passed a resolution AGAINST the amendment for the bipartisan commission and they urged voters to vote against it. They overwhelmingly supported it in 2019 when the Republicans had power, then flip flopped to keep redistricting power to themselves when they could. That happened. It’s indisputable. So spare us all the sanctimonious nonsense about only R’s pulling this sort of crap. Virginia Dems were guilty of trying it then and they’re guilty of trying the same shit now.
FACT: Dems have been pushing to ban gerrymandering for years.
Who has fought it? Rs.
The group of Dems who opposed the VA plan was concerned about the flaws, which turned out to be accurate. The Rs didn’t participate in good faith and the decision DID go to the conservative VA SC. So their concerns were warranted.
Rs decide to go crazy with gerrymandering to protect Trump.
And think Ds should just sit around and NOT try to fight it?
You might be OK with Trump shitting all over our Constitution but most people are not.
Just stop it. That's NOT what happened. IDGAF what happened in other states. In VA, the Dems overwhelmingly supported the amendment in 2019. It went thorough almost unanimously. There were ZERO objections about "flaws". Then once in power they reversed course. The amendment never changed, but all of a sudden there were BS "objections". They objected because they wanted to keep redistricting power in their own hands, plain and simple. And don't try to downplay it by saying it was "a group of Democrats". It was the Democratic Party of Virginia. They passed a resolution to oppose it after fully supporting it the year before. The DPVA urged voters to vote against the ending of gerrymandering in the state. These are the FACTS>
In the House, roughly a dozen Democrats opposed it, saying it left too much wiggle room for partisan gerrymandering and didn’t do enough to protect communities of color.
‘Just wanted to get something passed’
In a recent interview, Del. Lamont Bagby, D-Henrico, the chairman of the Virginia Legislative Black Caucus, said he still has strong reservations about the commission proposal.
“A lot of individuals that we trusted lost credibility by jumping on the first train that leaves the station,” Bagby said. “It was evident that African Americans weren’t fully considered. … And Republicans were taking advantage of individuals that just wanted to get something passed that was said to be redistricting reform.”
Bagby said he’s also concerned about the amendment’s backup mechanism if the commission or the General Assembly couldn’t agree on a redistricting plan. In that scenario, the Supreme Court of Virginia — which is appointed by the General Assembly — would draw the district lines.
“It’s been 20 years of Republicans putting members’ friends and family on the Supreme Court,” Bagby said. “I would not trust redistricting in the hands of the Supreme Court.”
The two most recent justices appointed to the state Supreme Court are Stephen McCullough, who once worked under former Republican Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli, and Teresa Chafin, the sister of state Sen. Ben Chafin, R-Russell.
Some Democrats who voted for the amendment this year — even though they weren’t entirely happy with it — say its flaws can be remedied via a separate bill laying out more detailed rules and criteria for how the commission would work.
“People are unconformable with some aspects of this bipartisan commission,” said Del. Mark Sickles, D-Fairfax. “So it’s important to pass implementing legislation so there will be a better understanding of how the commission would work.”
The accompanying bill could include stronger measures to protect minority voting power. The amendment says the commission must comply with federal and state laws dealing with “racial and ethnic fairness,” including the Voting Rights Act. Supporters say duplicating Voting Rights Act-style protections in state law would safeguard against any future changes to federal law.
The bill could also ensure racial and geographic diversity on the commission.
“If we have all a bunch of white people from Northern Virginia, that would be a huge fail on a lot of levels,” Cannon said.
Bagby said he’s skeptical that the accompanying bill could resolve his concerns about the Supreme Court being the final arbiter in case of a deadlock.
“Something is not always better than nothing,” Bagby said. “What it appears we’re doing is we’re letting the same people that gerrymandered us for the last 20-plus years continue to do the same thing to us. Just with different hats on.”
Sorry. Nice try twisting yourself into a pretzel over this, but the leaders did a “full flop” by Politifact. When you’re done hyperventilating, give it a look. But I suspect you’ll say it’s “more lies”.
It wasn’t “unanimous” - a dozen Ds voted against it in 2019.
There were many objections about the flaws. Some Ds who voted yes the first time stated that they did so assuming that additional legislation would fix the flaws.
The Ds flipped several seats and a dozen new House members voted against it in 2020.
You have a very hard time with reading comprehension.
I said it was "overwhelmingly supported" in 2019. It was. Virginia Mercury and Politifact agree.
I said it was "nearly unanimous" in the 2019 vote. It was. Virginia Mercury and Politifact agree.
I never said anything about who voted against it in 2020 or why. I said that after regaining power in 2020, the Democratic Party of Virginia adopted and passed a resolution (overwhelmingly) against the amendment to end gerrymandering in Virginia. This was after their aforementioned overwhelming support and nearly unanimous vote in in favor of the exact same amendment to end gerrymandering in Virginia. They did. Virginia Mercury and Politifact agree.
Yes, the facts are crystal clear. You're simply being obtuse and it's getting exhausting.
What is exhausting is your intentional mischaracterization of what happened.
As I documented in my previous post:
It was not "almost unanimously" supported - there was a solid contingent who opposed it from the start.
There were objections about flaws in 2019. The same objections discussed again in 2020.
And they did not "fully" support it as you claimed.
All of this is a red herring though.
It does not matter how strongly committed the Ds were previously towards eliminating gerrymandering, because now we are ALL IN. I'm glad the Ds are finally developing a backbone to deal with the amoral Rs.
The POTUS must not have absolute power. Our government doesn’t work with if all three branches are corrupt.
OK got it. You're right. Virginia Mercury and Politifact got it all wrong. Democracy sucks and it must be defeated no matter what (or when you don't get your way)
Are you OK with Trump's actions?
Should Trump have absolute power?
If the GOP were willing to step up and curb his abhorrent behavior then we wouldn't be in this situation in the first place. But the corrupt Congress just lets him do whatever TF he wants, no matter how unethical, illegal, or unconstitutional.
What actions has he taken that you are speaking of? Be specific.
Take your pick. How about the military strikes on Iran without notifying Congress in advance or getting congressional approval?
Anonymous wrote:I don’t live in Virginia but I very much want to vote “yes” for this ballot question. I don’t really know much about American elections - is there a provision that allows people other than Virginians to vote on this also? It seems like a national/international issue given the ramifications regarding control of Congress. So it only seems fair that anyone potentially affected should also be able to have a say. If I can’t vote, what are my options to help it get passed?
Just show up on the 21st with a recent electric bill from a registered voter.
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