TJ admissions change from Merit to Essay impact to Asian American Students

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So there's still not a single shred of evidence of a cheating scandal or people buying the test. No one is able to post a single news article or any real proof. Thanks for clearing that up for everyone.

Don’t be obtuse. No one was literally paying money and getting the test in return. They were paying for $$$$ prep that (unethically) provided access to previous/example test questions on a test that shouldn’t be prepped for. It was shady AF as many people, including former students who did the prep, have noted.

You keep moving the goalposts and arguing against a strawman. It was put forth that there was a huge cheating scandal, people were buying the test, and it was all over the news. It was also put forth that the "cheating scandal" was the main reason for the TJ admissions change. Seriously, pony up some actual evidence of this, or stop yapping. The only evidence that was provided is that people were concerned that test prep was skewing the results, and that affluent kids had an advantage. There's also a bit of hearsay that some questions on the Quant Q were the same as some practiced at Curie. I still haven't seen any evidence of a "cheating scandal," "kids (literally) buying the test," and this being "all over the news."

FWIW, Amazon sells Quant Q practice books.

There's evidence provided in this thread.Numerous first-hand accounts and multiple news sources. Not sure why you keep ignoring it.

Because the accounts and news sources show nothing of the "cheating" and "test buying" as the lie you keep on spreading.

DP.

We do know that affluent families were paying for $$$$ prep that (unethically) acquired and provided access to previous/example test questions on a test that shouldn’t be prepped for. It was shady AF as many people, including former students who did the prep, have noted.

And, we do know that FCPS wanted a way to fairly assess kids across the county without fueling a $$$$ test prep industry, giving affluent families a huge, unfair advantage.

The admissions process keeps changing because parents keep trying to game the system.

This claim is completely BS, Donald!

Places like Kaplan, Princeton, College Board, Barron's, etc. have released sample and past exam questions for decades. TJ never has prohibited students from talking about exam questions from their memory. Also, most affluent families in Fairfax are not Asian. If money can make the difference, there should be way more white students admitted in the old system than in the new system.

The biggest beneficiaries of the new admissions process are students from low-income Asian families.


https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“ “Is it gonna once again advantage those kids whose parents can pay to sign them up for special prep camps to now be prepping for science testing as well?” Megan McLaughlin asked when presented with the new plan.

Admissions director Jeremy Shughart doesn’t think so. The firm that markets the math portion of the test, Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.”

Please stop posting articles that do nothing to prove your points.

My points were:
1. non-affluent Asian students benefitted from the change

2. Quant-Q, intentionally did NOT release materials to the public - very different than SAT, ACT, etc.

3. for years, they have been looking for ways to avoid some kids having an unfair advance with test-prep

Either Quant-Q or you were lying. A 5-second search on Amazon gave me more than 15 books with Quant-Q questions. You don't have to be affluent to spend 10-20 bucks on a book. There is no evidence that low-income Asian students need/benefit from the change.

None of those were based on materials provided by the Quant-Q creator, Insight Assessment. And, based on the NDAs, all of those books are likely unethically, or even potentially illegally, developed.

https://insightassessment.com/policies/
"Non-Disclosure and Non-Compete Agreement
By accessing the Insight Assessment online testing interface or purchasing a preview pack or instrument use licenses, all clients acknowledge that the on-line interface and the testing instrument(s) it contains or displays include proprietary business information, such as but not limited to the structure of test questions or the presentation of those questions and other information displayed in conjunction with the use of this testing interface. In the absence of a specific written agreement between the client and Insight Assessment, the client agrees that by purchasing a preview pack or testing licenses, the client and their organization, shall not disclose, copy, or replicate this testing interface or this testing instrument(s) in whole or in part in comparable or competitive product or interface of any kind. In the absence of a specific written agreement between the client and Insight Assessment, the client agrees that by accessing the testing instrument(s) for any purpose, including but not limited to previewing the instrument(s), the client and the client’s organization shall not create, design, develop, publish, market, or distribute any comparable or competitive testing instrument(s)."

"Remember that the goal of a critical thinking assessment is to measure your natural ability to think critically, so there’s no need for extensive preparation. Just be yourself and approach the assessment with a clear mind."

Ok. Do you have any evidence that test prep centers used the materials from Quant-Q? or do we have to take your words that somehow students stole the questions for them?

TJ students admitted it.

So, TJ students came to you and admitted it. Also, even if it was a real problem, FCPS could easily solve it by incorporating rules prohibiting students from discussing exam information or materials. This is a common practice used by organizations administering exams across different time zones. FCPS has done that because it's not a real problem.

No, several students shared online. Which you would know if you actually did go back and read all of the old threads.

The students agreed not to share test content/format before they took the test. How would have more rules helped?

Some parents will always look for ways to cheat the system.

This is your evidence and you want people to take you seriously. Even if it's the case, FCPS should enforce their rules the same way as they are doing with their code of ethics and conduct. They can even sue those test prep centers for using infringed materials. It's obvious to me that this was not a widespread problem as you claim.

In the off chance that you’re not just being oppositional and you really do want to learn more, get back to us after you go back and re-read the many threads.

Then maybe you won’t sound so ignorant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So there's still not a single shred of evidence of a cheating scandal or people buying the test. No one is able to post a single news article or any real proof. Thanks for clearing that up for everyone.

Don’t be obtuse. No one was literally paying money and getting the test in return. They were paying for $$$$ prep that (unethically) provided access to previous/example test questions on a test that shouldn’t be prepped for. It was shady AF as many people, including former students who did the prep, have noted.

You keep moving the goalposts and arguing against a strawman. It was put forth that there was a huge cheating scandal, people were buying the test, and it was all over the news. It was also put forth that the "cheating scandal" was the main reason for the TJ admissions change. Seriously, pony up some actual evidence of this, or stop yapping. The only evidence that was provided is that people were concerned that test prep was skewing the results, and that affluent kids had an advantage. There's also a bit of hearsay that some questions on the Quant Q were the same as some practiced at Curie. I still haven't seen any evidence of a "cheating scandal," "kids (literally) buying the test," and this being "all over the news."

FWIW, Amazon sells Quant Q practice books.

There's evidence provided in this thread.Numerous first-hand accounts and multiple news sources. Not sure why you keep ignoring it.

Because the accounts and news sources show nothing of the "cheating" and "test buying" as the lie you keep on spreading.

DP.

We do know that affluent families were paying for $$$$ prep that (unethically) acquired and provided access to previous/example test questions on a test that shouldn’t be prepped for. It was shady AF as many people, including former students who did the prep, have noted.

And, we do know that FCPS wanted a way to fairly assess kids across the county without fueling a $$$$ test prep industry, giving affluent families a huge, unfair advantage.

The admissions process keeps changing because parents keep trying to game the system.

This claim is completely BS, Donald!

Places like Kaplan, Princeton, College Board, Barron's, etc. have released sample and past exam questions for decades. TJ never has prohibited students from talking about exam questions from their memory. Also, most affluent families in Fairfax are not Asian. If money can make the difference, there should be way more white students admitted in the old system than in the new system.

The biggest beneficiaries of the new admissions process are students from low-income Asian families.


https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“ “Is it gonna once again advantage those kids whose parents can pay to sign them up for special prep camps to now be prepping for science testing as well?” Megan McLaughlin asked when presented with the new plan.

Admissions director Jeremy Shughart doesn’t think so. The firm that markets the math portion of the test, Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.”

Please stop posting articles that do nothing to prove your points.

My points were:
1. non-affluent Asian students benefitted from the change

2. Quant-Q, intentionally did NOT release materials to the public - very different than SAT, ACT, etc.

3. for years, they have been looking for ways to avoid some kids having an unfair advance with test-prep

Either Quant-Q or you were lying. A 5-second search on Amazon gave me more than 15 books with Quant-Q questions. You don't have to be affluent to spend 10-20 bucks on a book. There is no evidence that low-income Asian students need/benefit from the change.

None of those were based on materials provided by the Quant-Q creator, Insight Assessment. And, based on the NDAs, all of those books are likely unethically, or even potentially illegally, developed.

https://insightassessment.com/policies/
"Non-Disclosure and Non-Compete Agreement
By accessing the Insight Assessment online testing interface or purchasing a preview pack or instrument use licenses, all clients acknowledge that the on-line interface and the testing instrument(s) it contains or displays include proprietary business information, such as but not limited to the structure of test questions or the presentation of those questions and other information displayed in conjunction with the use of this testing interface. In the absence of a specific written agreement between the client and Insight Assessment, the client agrees that by purchasing a preview pack or testing licenses, the client and their organization, shall not disclose, copy, or replicate this testing interface or this testing instrument(s) in whole or in part in comparable or competitive product or interface of any kind. In the absence of a specific written agreement between the client and Insight Assessment, the client agrees that by accessing the testing instrument(s) for any purpose, including but not limited to previewing the instrument(s), the client and the client’s organization shall not create, design, develop, publish, market, or distribute any comparable or competitive testing instrument(s)."

"Remember that the goal of a critical thinking assessment is to measure your natural ability to think critically, so there’s no need for extensive preparation. Just be yourself and approach the assessment with a clear mind."

Ok. Do you have any evidence that test prep centers used the materials from Quant-Q? or do we have to take your words that somehow students stole the questions for them?

TJ students admitted it.

So, TJ students came to you and admitted it. Also, even if it was a real problem, FCPS could easily solve it by incorporating rules prohibiting students from discussing exam information or materials. This is a common practice used by organizations administering exams across different time zones. FCPS has done that because it's not a real problem.

No, several students shared online. Which you would know if you actually did go back and read all of the old threads.

The students agreed not to share test content/format before they took the test. How would have more rules helped?

Some parents will always look for ways to cheat the system.

This is your evidence and you want people to take you seriously. Even if it's the case, FCPS should enforce their rules the same way as they are doing with their code of ethics and conduct. They can even sue those test prep centers for using infringed materials. It's obvious to me that this was not a widespread problem as you claim.

In the off chance that you’re not just being oppositional and you really do want to learn more, get back to us after you go back and re-read the many threads.

Then maybe you won’t sound so ignorant.

But the threads don’t point to anything. It’s just anonymous posts. No links to the coveted Facebook posts, no articles about cheating on the admissions test, no links about a scandal.

It’s entirely circular.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So there's still not a single shred of evidence of a cheating scandal or people buying the test. No one is able to post a single news article or any real proof. Thanks for clearing that up for everyone.

Don’t be obtuse. No one was literally paying money and getting the test in return. They were paying for $$$$ prep that (unethically) provided access to previous/example test questions on a test that shouldn’t be prepped for. It was shady AF as many people, including former students who did the prep, have noted.

You keep moving the goalposts and arguing against a strawman. It was put forth that there was a huge cheating scandal, people were buying the test, and it was all over the news. It was also put forth that the "cheating scandal" was the main reason for the TJ admissions change. Seriously, pony up some actual evidence of this, or stop yapping. The only evidence that was provided is that people were concerned that test prep was skewing the results, and that affluent kids had an advantage. There's also a bit of hearsay that some questions on the Quant Q were the same as some practiced at Curie. I still haven't seen any evidence of a "cheating scandal," "kids (literally) buying the test," and this being "all over the news."

FWIW, Amazon sells Quant Q practice books.

There's evidence provided in this thread.Numerous first-hand accounts and multiple news sources. Not sure why you keep ignoring it.

Because the accounts and news sources show nothing of the "cheating" and "test buying" as the lie you keep on spreading.

DP.

We do know that affluent families were paying for $$$$ prep that (unethically) acquired and provided access to previous/example test questions on a test that shouldn’t be prepped for. It was shady AF as many people, including former students who did the prep, have noted.

And, we do know that FCPS wanted a way to fairly assess kids across the county without fueling a $$$$ test prep industry, giving affluent families a huge, unfair advantage.

The admissions process keeps changing because parents keep trying to game the system.

This claim is completely BS, Donald!

Places like Kaplan, Princeton, College Board, Barron's, etc. have released sample and past exam questions for decades. TJ never has prohibited students from talking about exam questions from their memory. Also, most affluent families in Fairfax are not Asian. If money can make the difference, there should be way more white students admitted in the old system than in the new system.

The biggest beneficiaries of the new admissions process are students from low-income Asian families.


https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“ “Is it gonna once again advantage those kids whose parents can pay to sign them up for special prep camps to now be prepping for science testing as well?” Megan McLaughlin asked when presented with the new plan.

Admissions director Jeremy Shughart doesn’t think so. The firm that markets the math portion of the test, Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.”

Please stop posting articles that do nothing to prove your points.

My points were:
1. non-affluent Asian students benefitted from the change

2. Quant-Q, intentionally did NOT release materials to the public - very different than SAT, ACT, etc.

3. for years, they have been looking for ways to avoid some kids having an unfair advance with test-prep

Either Quant-Q or you were lying. A 5-second search on Amazon gave me more than 15 books with Quant-Q questions. You don't have to be affluent to spend 10-20 bucks on a book. There is no evidence that low-income Asian students need/benefit from the change.

None of those were based on materials provided by the Quant-Q creator, Insight Assessment. And, based on the NDAs, all of those books are likely unethically, or even potentially illegally, developed.

https://insightassessment.com/policies/
"Non-Disclosure and Non-Compete Agreement
By accessing the Insight Assessment online testing interface or purchasing a preview pack or instrument use licenses, all clients acknowledge that the on-line interface and the testing instrument(s) it contains or displays include proprietary business information, such as but not limited to the structure of test questions or the presentation of those questions and other information displayed in conjunction with the use of this testing interface. In the absence of a specific written agreement between the client and Insight Assessment, the client agrees that by purchasing a preview pack or testing licenses, the client and their organization, shall not disclose, copy, or replicate this testing interface or this testing instrument(s) in whole or in part in comparable or competitive product or interface of any kind. In the absence of a specific written agreement between the client and Insight Assessment, the client agrees that by accessing the testing instrument(s) for any purpose, including but not limited to previewing the instrument(s), the client and the client’s organization shall not create, design, develop, publish, market, or distribute any comparable or competitive testing instrument(s)."

"Remember that the goal of a critical thinking assessment is to measure your natural ability to think critically, so there’s no need for extensive preparation. Just be yourself and approach the assessment with a clear mind."

Ok. Do you have any evidence that test prep centers used the materials from Quant-Q? or do we have to take your words that somehow students stole the questions for them?

TJ students admitted it.

So, TJ students came to you and admitted it. Also, even if it was a real problem, FCPS could easily solve it by incorporating rules prohibiting students from discussing exam information or materials. This is a common practice used by organizations administering exams across different time zones. FCPS has done that because it's not a real problem.

No, several students shared online. Which you would know if you actually did go back and read all of the old threads.

The students agreed not to share test content/format before they took the test. How would have more rules helped?

Some parents will always look for ways to cheat the system.

This is your evidence and you want people to take you seriously. Even if it's the case, FCPS should enforce their rules the same way as they are doing with their code of ethics and conduct. They can even sue those test prep centers for using infringed materials. It's obvious to me that this was not a widespread problem as you claim.

In the off chance that you’re not just being oppositional and you really do want to learn more, get back to us after you go back and re-read the many threads.

Then maybe you won’t sound so ignorant.

But the threads don’t point to anything. It’s just anonymous posts. No links to the coveted Facebook posts, no articles about cheating on the admissions test, no links about a scandal.

It’s entirely circular.

There were definitely links to the FB posts. You’re clearly not reading the threads.

You remind me of the open school crazies who didn’t even have kids in school at the time but were very loud and very clueless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So there's still not a single shred of evidence of a cheating scandal or people buying the test. No one is able to post a single news article or any real proof. Thanks for clearing that up for everyone.

Don’t be obtuse. No one was literally paying money and getting the test in return. They were paying for $$$$ prep that (unethically) provided access to previous/example test questions on a test that shouldn’t be prepped for. It was shady AF as many people, including former students who did the prep, have noted.

You keep moving the goalposts and arguing against a strawman. It was put forth that there was a huge cheating scandal, people were buying the test, and it was all over the news. It was also put forth that the "cheating scandal" was the main reason for the TJ admissions change. Seriously, pony up some actual evidence of this, or stop yapping. The only evidence that was provided is that people were concerned that test prep was skewing the results, and that affluent kids had an advantage. There's also a bit of hearsay that some questions on the Quant Q were the same as some practiced at Curie. I still haven't seen any evidence of a "cheating scandal," "kids (literally) buying the test," and this being "all over the news."

FWIW, Amazon sells Quant Q practice books.

There's evidence provided in this thread.Numerous first-hand accounts and multiple news sources. Not sure why you keep ignoring it.

Because the accounts and news sources show nothing of the "cheating" and "test buying" as the lie you keep on spreading.

DP.

We do know that affluent families were paying for $$$$ prep that (unethically) acquired and provided access to previous/example test questions on a test that shouldn’t be prepped for. It was shady AF as many people, including former students who did the prep, have noted.

And, we do know that FCPS wanted a way to fairly assess kids across the county without fueling a $$$$ test prep industry, giving affluent families a huge, unfair advantage.

The admissions process keeps changing because parents keep trying to game the system.

This claim is completely BS, Donald!

Places like Kaplan, Princeton, College Board, Barron's, etc. have released sample and past exam questions for decades. TJ never has prohibited students from talking about exam questions from their memory. Also, most affluent families in Fairfax are not Asian. If money can make the difference, there should be way more white students admitted in the old system than in the new system.

The biggest beneficiaries of the new admissions process are students from low-income Asian families.


https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“ “Is it gonna once again advantage those kids whose parents can pay to sign them up for special prep camps to now be prepping for science testing as well?” Megan McLaughlin asked when presented with the new plan.

Admissions director Jeremy Shughart doesn’t think so. The firm that markets the math portion of the test, Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.”

Please stop posting articles that do nothing to prove your points.

My points were:
1. non-affluent Asian students benefitted from the change

2. Quant-Q, intentionally did NOT release materials to the public - very different than SAT, ACT, etc.

3. for years, they have been looking for ways to avoid some kids having an unfair advance with test-prep

Either Quant-Q or you were lying. A 5-second search on Amazon gave me more than 15 books with Quant-Q questions. You don't have to be affluent to spend 10-20 bucks on a book. There is no evidence that low-income Asian students need/benefit from the change.

None of those were based on materials provided by the Quant-Q creator, Insight Assessment. And, based on the NDAs, all of those books are likely unethically, or even potentially illegally, developed.

https://insightassessment.com/policies/
"Non-Disclosure and Non-Compete Agreement
By accessing the Insight Assessment online testing interface or purchasing a preview pack or instrument use licenses, all clients acknowledge that the on-line interface and the testing instrument(s) it contains or displays include proprietary business information, such as but not limited to the structure of test questions or the presentation of those questions and other information displayed in conjunction with the use of this testing interface. In the absence of a specific written agreement between the client and Insight Assessment, the client agrees that by purchasing a preview pack or testing licenses, the client and their organization, shall not disclose, copy, or replicate this testing interface or this testing instrument(s) in whole or in part in comparable or competitive product or interface of any kind. In the absence of a specific written agreement between the client and Insight Assessment, the client agrees that by accessing the testing instrument(s) for any purpose, including but not limited to previewing the instrument(s), the client and the client’s organization shall not create, design, develop, publish, market, or distribute any comparable or competitive testing instrument(s)."

"Remember that the goal of a critical thinking assessment is to measure your natural ability to think critically, so there’s no need for extensive preparation. Just be yourself and approach the assessment with a clear mind."

Ok. Do you have any evidence that test prep centers used the materials from Quant-Q? or do we have to take your words that somehow students stole the questions for them?

TJ students admitted it.

So, TJ students came to you and admitted it. Also, even if it was a real problem, FCPS could easily solve it by incorporating rules prohibiting students from discussing exam information or materials. This is a common practice used by organizations administering exams across different time zones. FCPS has done that because it's not a real problem.

No, several students shared online. Which you would know if you actually did go back and read all of the old threads.

The students agreed not to share test content/format before they took the test. How would have more rules helped?

Some parents will always look for ways to cheat the system.

Oh FFS. People making anonymous posts on dcum is not proof. The old threads are just people on dcum saying stuff. No one has ever posted a real article from a real news source. You know damn well that some news agency would have been all over it if there were any proof that NDAs were broken, kids purchased test answers, or any type of cheating scandal actually happened.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So there's still not a single shred of evidence of a cheating scandal or people buying the test. No one is able to post a single news article or any real proof. Thanks for clearing that up for everyone.

Don’t be obtuse. No one was literally paying money and getting the test in return. They were paying for $$$$ prep that (unethically) provided access to previous/example test questions on a test that shouldn’t be prepped for. It was shady AF as many people, including former students who did the prep, have noted.

You keep moving the goalposts and arguing against a strawman. It was put forth that there was a huge cheating scandal, people were buying the test, and it was all over the news. It was also put forth that the "cheating scandal" was the main reason for the TJ admissions change. Seriously, pony up some actual evidence of this, or stop yapping. The only evidence that was provided is that people were concerned that test prep was skewing the results, and that affluent kids had an advantage. There's also a bit of hearsay that some questions on the Quant Q were the same as some practiced at Curie. I still haven't seen any evidence of a "cheating scandal," "kids (literally) buying the test," and this being "all over the news."

FWIW, Amazon sells Quant Q practice books.

There's evidence provided in this thread.Numerous first-hand accounts and multiple news sources. Not sure why you keep ignoring it.

Because the accounts and news sources show nothing of the "cheating" and "test buying" as the lie you keep on spreading.

DP.

We do know that affluent families were paying for $$$$ prep that (unethically) acquired and provided access to previous/example test questions on a test that shouldn’t be prepped for. It was shady AF as many people, including former students who did the prep, have noted.

And, we do know that FCPS wanted a way to fairly assess kids across the county without fueling a $$$$ test prep industry, giving affluent families a huge, unfair advantage.

The admissions process keeps changing because parents keep trying to game the system.

This claim is completely BS, Donald!

Places like Kaplan, Princeton, College Board, Barron's, etc. have released sample and past exam questions for decades. TJ never has prohibited students from talking about exam questions from their memory. Also, most affluent families in Fairfax are not Asian. If money can make the difference, there should be way more white students admitted in the old system than in the new system.

The biggest beneficiaries of the new admissions process are students from low-income Asian families.


https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“ “Is it gonna once again advantage those kids whose parents can pay to sign them up for special prep camps to now be prepping for science testing as well?” Megan McLaughlin asked when presented with the new plan.

Admissions director Jeremy Shughart doesn’t think so. The firm that markets the math portion of the test, Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.”

Please stop posting articles that do nothing to prove your points.

My points were:
1. non-affluent Asian students benefitted from the change

2. Quant-Q, intentionally did NOT release materials to the public - very different than SAT, ACT, etc.

3. for years, they have been looking for ways to avoid some kids having an unfair advance with test-prep

Either Quant-Q or you were lying. A 5-second search on Amazon gave me more than 15 books with Quant-Q questions. You don't have to be affluent to spend 10-20 bucks on a book. There is no evidence that low-income Asian students need/benefit from the change.

None of those were based on materials provided by the Quant-Q creator, Insight Assessment. And, based on the NDAs, all of those books are likely unethically, or even potentially illegally, developed.

https://insightassessment.com/policies/
"Non-Disclosure and Non-Compete Agreement
By accessing the Insight Assessment online testing interface or purchasing a preview pack or instrument use licenses, all clients acknowledge that the on-line interface and the testing instrument(s) it contains or displays include proprietary business information, such as but not limited to the structure of test questions or the presentation of those questions and other information displayed in conjunction with the use of this testing interface. In the absence of a specific written agreement between the client and Insight Assessment, the client agrees that by purchasing a preview pack or testing licenses, the client and their organization, shall not disclose, copy, or replicate this testing interface or this testing instrument(s) in whole or in part in comparable or competitive product or interface of any kind. In the absence of a specific written agreement between the client and Insight Assessment, the client agrees that by accessing the testing instrument(s) for any purpose, including but not limited to previewing the instrument(s), the client and the client’s organization shall not create, design, develop, publish, market, or distribute any comparable or competitive testing instrument(s)."

"Remember that the goal of a critical thinking assessment is to measure your natural ability to think critically, so there’s no need for extensive preparation. Just be yourself and approach the assessment with a clear mind."

Ok. Do you have any evidence that test prep centers used the materials from Quant-Q? or do we have to take your words that somehow students stole the questions for them?

TJ students admitted it.

So, TJ students came to you and admitted it. Also, even if it was a real problem, FCPS could easily solve it by incorporating rules prohibiting students from discussing exam information or materials. This is a common practice used by organizations administering exams across different time zones. FCPS has done that because it's not a real problem.

No, several students shared online. Which you would know if you actually did go back and read all of the old threads.

The students agreed not to share test content/format before they took the test. How would have more rules helped?

Some parents will always look for ways to cheat the system.

This is your evidence and you want people to take you seriously. Even if it's the case, FCPS should enforce their rules the same way as they are doing with their code of ethics and conduct. They can even sue those test prep centers for using infringed materials. It's obvious to me that this was not a widespread problem as you claim.

In the off chance that you’re not just being oppositional and you really do want to learn more, get back to us after you go back and re-read the many threads.

Then maybe you won’t sound so ignorant.

But the threads don’t point to anything. It’s just anonymous posts. No links to the coveted Facebook posts, no articles about cheating on the admissions test, no links about a scandal.

It’s entirely circular.

There were definitely links to the FB posts. You’re clearly not reading the threads.

You remind me of the open school crazies who didn’t even have kids in school at the time but were very loud and very clueless.

So post them here. The links. Right here.

[Anonymous]

I do like the school quota system. I don't think race should be a factor though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So there's still not a single shred of evidence of a cheating scandal or people buying the test. No one is able to post a single news article or any real proof. Thanks for clearing that up for everyone.

Don’t be obtuse. No one was literally paying money and getting the test in return. They were paying for $$$$ prep that (unethically) provided access to previous/example test questions on a test that shouldn’t be prepped for. It was shady AF as many people, including former students who did the prep, have noted.

You keep moving the goalposts and arguing against a strawman. It was put forth that there was a huge cheating scandal, people were buying the test, and it was all over the news. It was also put forth that the "cheating scandal" was the main reason for the TJ admissions change. Seriously, pony up some actual evidence of this, or stop yapping. The only evidence that was provided is that people were concerned that test prep was skewing the results, and that affluent kids had an advantage. There's also a bit of hearsay that some questions on the Quant Q were the same as some practiced at Curie. I still haven't seen any evidence of a "cheating scandal," "kids (literally) buying the test," and this being "all over the news."

FWIW, Amazon sells Quant Q practice books.

There's evidence provided in this thread.Numerous first-hand accounts and multiple news sources. Not sure why you keep ignoring it.

Because the accounts and news sources show nothing of the "cheating" and "test buying" as the lie you keep on spreading.

DP.

We do know that affluent families were paying for $$$$ prep that (unethically) acquired and provided access to previous/example test questions on a test that shouldn’t be prepped for. It was shady AF as many people, including former students who did the prep, have noted.

And, we do know that FCPS wanted a way to fairly assess kids across the county without fueling a $$$$ test prep industry, giving affluent families a huge, unfair advantage.

The admissions process keeps changing because parents keep trying to game the system.

This claim is completely BS, Donald!

Places like Kaplan, Princeton, College Board, Barron's, etc. have released sample and past exam questions for decades. TJ never has prohibited students from talking about exam questions from their memory. Also, most affluent families in Fairfax are not Asian. If money can make the difference, there should be way more white students admitted in the old system than in the new system.

The biggest beneficiaries of the new admissions process are students from low-income Asian families.


https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“ “Is it gonna once again advantage those kids whose parents can pay to sign them up for special prep camps to now be prepping for science testing as well?” Megan McLaughlin asked when presented with the new plan.

Admissions director Jeremy Shughart doesn’t think so. The firm that markets the math portion of the test, Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.”

Please stop posting articles that do nothing to prove your points.

My points were:
1. non-affluent Asian students benefitted from the change

2. Quant-Q, intentionally did NOT release materials to the public - very different than SAT, ACT, etc.

3. for years, they have been looking for ways to avoid some kids having an unfair advance with test-prep

Either Quant-Q or you were lying. A 5-second search on Amazon gave me more than 15 books with Quant-Q questions. You don't have to be affluent to spend 10-20 bucks on a book. There is no evidence that low-income Asian students need/benefit from the change.

None of those were based on materials provided by the Quant-Q creator, Insight Assessment. And, based on the NDAs, all of those books are likely unethically, or even potentially illegally, developed.

https://insightassessment.com/policies/
"Non-Disclosure and Non-Compete Agreement
By accessing the Insight Assessment online testing interface or purchasing a preview pack or instrument use licenses, all clients acknowledge that the on-line interface and the testing instrument(s) it contains or displays include proprietary business information, such as but not limited to the structure of test questions or the presentation of those questions and other information displayed in conjunction with the use of this testing interface. In the absence of a specific written agreement between the client and Insight Assessment, the client agrees that by purchasing a preview pack or testing licenses, the client and their organization, shall not disclose, copy, or replicate this testing interface or this testing instrument(s) in whole or in part in comparable or competitive product or interface of any kind. In the absence of a specific written agreement between the client and Insight Assessment, the client agrees that by accessing the testing instrument(s) for any purpose, including but not limited to previewing the instrument(s), the client and the client’s organization shall not create, design, develop, publish, market, or distribute any comparable or competitive testing instrument(s)."

"Remember that the goal of a critical thinking assessment is to measure your natural ability to think critically, so there’s no need for extensive preparation. Just be yourself and approach the assessment with a clear mind."

Ok. Do you have any evidence that test prep centers used the materials from Quant-Q? or do we have to take your words that somehow students stole the questions for them?

TJ students admitted it.

So, TJ students came to you and admitted it. Also, even if it was a real problem, FCPS could easily solve it by incorporating rules prohibiting students from discussing exam information or materials. This is a common practice used by organizations administering exams across different time zones. FCPS has done that because it's not a real problem.

No, several students shared online. Which you would know if you actually did go back and read all of the old threads.

The students agreed not to share test content/format before they took the test. How would have more rules helped?

Some parents will always look for ways to cheat the system.

This is your evidence and you want people to take you seriously. Even if it's the case, FCPS should enforce their rules the same way as they are doing with their code of ethics and conduct. They can even sue those test prep centers for using infringed materials. It's obvious to me that this was not a widespread problem as you claim.

In the off chance that you’re not just being oppositional and you really do want to learn more, get back to us after you go back and re-read the many threads.

Then maybe you won’t sound so ignorant.

But the threads don’t point to anything. It’s just anonymous posts. No links to the coveted Facebook posts, no articles about cheating on the admissions test, no links about a scandal.

It’s entirely circular.

There were definitely links to the FB posts. You’re clearly not reading the threads.

You remind me of the open school crazies who didn’t even have kids in school at the time but were very loud and very clueless.

So post them here. The links. Right here.

So won’t read the many threads of this old, beat-to-death topic AND you want others to dig up links for you?

I just googled and found some links in the first couple of results.

If your kid is as lazy as you are TJ doesn’t seem likely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So there's still not a single shred of evidence of a cheating scandal or people buying the test. No one is able to post a single news article or any real proof. Thanks for clearing that up for everyone.

Don’t be obtuse. No one was literally paying money and getting the test in return. They were paying for $$$$ prep that (unethically) provided access to previous/example test questions on a test that shouldn’t be prepped for. It was shady AF as many people, including former students who did the prep, have noted.

You keep moving the goalposts and arguing against a strawman. It was put forth that there was a huge cheating scandal, people were buying the test, and it was all over the news. It was also put forth that the "cheating scandal" was the main reason for the TJ admissions change. Seriously, pony up some actual evidence of this, or stop yapping. The only evidence that was provided is that people were concerned that test prep was skewing the results, and that affluent kids had an advantage. There's also a bit of hearsay that some questions on the Quant Q were the same as some practiced at Curie. I still haven't seen any evidence of a "cheating scandal," "kids (literally) buying the test," and this being "all over the news."

FWIW, Amazon sells Quant Q practice books.

There's evidence provided in this thread.Numerous first-hand accounts and multiple news sources. Not sure why you keep ignoring it.

Because the accounts and news sources show nothing of the "cheating" and "test buying" as the lie you keep on spreading.

DP.

We do know that affluent families were paying for $$$$ prep that (unethically) acquired and provided access to previous/example test questions on a test that shouldn’t be prepped for. It was shady AF as many people, including former students who did the prep, have noted.

And, we do know that FCPS wanted a way to fairly assess kids across the county without fueling a $$$$ test prep industry, giving affluent families a huge, unfair advantage.

The admissions process keeps changing because parents keep trying to game the system.

This claim is completely BS, Donald!

Places like Kaplan, Princeton, College Board, Barron's, etc. have released sample and past exam questions for decades. TJ never has prohibited students from talking about exam questions from their memory. Also, most affluent families in Fairfax are not Asian. If money can make the difference, there should be way more white students admitted in the old system than in the new system.

The biggest beneficiaries of the new admissions process are students from low-income Asian families.


https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“ “Is it gonna once again advantage those kids whose parents can pay to sign them up for special prep camps to now be prepping for science testing as well?” Megan McLaughlin asked when presented with the new plan.

Admissions director Jeremy Shughart doesn’t think so. The firm that markets the math portion of the test, Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.”

Please stop posting articles that do nothing to prove your points.

My points were:
1. non-affluent Asian students benefitted from the change

2. Quant-Q, intentionally did NOT release materials to the public - very different than SAT, ACT, etc.

3. for years, they have been looking for ways to avoid some kids having an unfair advance with test-prep

Either Quant-Q or you were lying. A 5-second search on Amazon gave me more than 15 books with Quant-Q questions. You don't have to be affluent to spend 10-20 bucks on a book. There is no evidence that low-income Asian students need/benefit from the change.

None of those were based on materials provided by the Quant-Q creator, Insight Assessment. And, based on the NDAs, all of those books are likely unethically, or even potentially illegally, developed.

https://insightassessment.com/policies/
"Non-Disclosure and Non-Compete Agreement
By accessing the Insight Assessment online testing interface or purchasing a preview pack or instrument use licenses, all clients acknowledge that the on-line interface and the testing instrument(s) it contains or displays include proprietary business information, such as but not limited to the structure of test questions or the presentation of those questions and other information displayed in conjunction with the use of this testing interface. In the absence of a specific written agreement between the client and Insight Assessment, the client agrees that by purchasing a preview pack or testing licenses, the client and their organization, shall not disclose, copy, or replicate this testing interface or this testing instrument(s) in whole or in part in comparable or competitive product or interface of any kind. In the absence of a specific written agreement between the client and Insight Assessment, the client agrees that by accessing the testing instrument(s) for any purpose, including but not limited to previewing the instrument(s), the client and the client’s organization shall not create, design, develop, publish, market, or distribute any comparable or competitive testing instrument(s)."

"Remember that the goal of a critical thinking assessment is to measure your natural ability to think critically, so there’s no need for extensive preparation. Just be yourself and approach the assessment with a clear mind."

Ok. Do you have any evidence that test prep centers used the materials from Quant-Q? or do we have to take your words that somehow students stole the questions for them?

TJ students admitted it.

So, TJ students came to you and admitted it. Also, even if it was a real problem, FCPS could easily solve it by incorporating rules prohibiting students from discussing exam information or materials. This is a common practice used by organizations administering exams across different time zones. FCPS has done that because it's not a real problem.

No, several students shared online. Which you would know if you actually did go back and read all of the old threads.

The students agreed not to share test content/format before they took the test. How would have more rules helped?

Some parents will always look for ways to cheat the system.

This is your evidence and you want people to take you seriously. Even if it's the case, FCPS should enforce their rules the same way as they are doing with their code of ethics and conduct. They can even sue those test prep centers for using infringed materials. It's obvious to me that this was not a widespread problem as you claim.

In the off chance that you’re not just being oppositional and you really do want to learn more, get back to us after you go back and re-read the many threads.

Then maybe you won’t sound so ignorant.

But the threads don’t point to anything. It’s just anonymous posts. No links to the coveted Facebook posts, no articles about cheating on the admissions test, no links about a scandal.

It’s entirely circular.

There were definitely links to the FB posts. You’re clearly not reading the threads.

You remind me of the open school crazies who didn’t even have kids in school at the time but were very loud and very clueless.

So post them here. The links. Right here.

So won’t read the many threads of this old, beat-to-death topic AND you want others to dig up links for you?

I just googled and found some links in the first couple of results.

If your kid is as lazy as you are TJ doesn’t seem likely.

So, you supposedly found some links proving what you said, but you refuse to post them? Sounds legit.

You're the one who made the claim that it has been proven and that there are links to reputable sources indicating what you've claimed. The burden is on you to provide that proof. Right here, post a link to a news article. If you won't, you're admitting that you can't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So there's still not a single shred of evidence of a cheating scandal or people buying the test. No one is able to post a single news article or any real proof. Thanks for clearing that up for everyone.

Don’t be obtuse. No one was literally paying money and getting the test in return. They were paying for $$$$ prep that (unethically) provided access to previous/example test questions on a test that shouldn’t be prepped for. It was shady AF as many people, including former students who did the prep, have noted.

You keep moving the goalposts and arguing against a strawman. It was put forth that there was a huge cheating scandal, people were buying the test, and it was all over the news. It was also put forth that the "cheating scandal" was the main reason for the TJ admissions change. Seriously, pony up some actual evidence of this, or stop yapping. The only evidence that was provided is that people were concerned that test prep was skewing the results, and that affluent kids had an advantage. There's also a bit of hearsay that some questions on the Quant Q were the same as some practiced at Curie. I still haven't seen any evidence of a "cheating scandal," "kids (literally) buying the test," and this being "all over the news."

FWIW, Amazon sells Quant Q practice books.

There's evidence provided in this thread.Numerous first-hand accounts and multiple news sources. Not sure why you keep ignoring it.

Because the accounts and news sources show nothing of the "cheating" and "test buying" as the lie you keep on spreading.

DP.

We do know that affluent families were paying for $$$$ prep that (unethically) acquired and provided access to previous/example test questions on a test that shouldn’t be prepped for. It was shady AF as many people, including former students who did the prep, have noted.

And, we do know that FCPS wanted a way to fairly assess kids across the county without fueling a $$$$ test prep industry, giving affluent families a huge, unfair advantage.

The admissions process keeps changing because parents keep trying to game the system.

This claim is completely BS, Donald!

Places like Kaplan, Princeton, College Board, Barron's, etc. have released sample and past exam questions for decades. TJ never has prohibited students from talking about exam questions from their memory. Also, most affluent families in Fairfax are not Asian. If money can make the difference, there should be way more white students admitted in the old system than in the new system.

The biggest beneficiaries of the new admissions process are students from low-income Asian families.


https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“ “Is it gonna once again advantage those kids whose parents can pay to sign them up for special prep camps to now be prepping for science testing as well?” Megan McLaughlin asked when presented with the new plan.

Admissions director Jeremy Shughart doesn’t think so. The firm that markets the math portion of the test, Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.”

Please stop posting articles that do nothing to prove your points.

My points were:
1. non-affluent Asian students benefitted from the change

2. Quant-Q, intentionally did NOT release materials to the public - very different than SAT, ACT, etc.

3. for years, they have been looking for ways to avoid some kids having an unfair advance with test-prep

Either Quant-Q or you were lying. A 5-second search on Amazon gave me more than 15 books with Quant-Q questions. You don't have to be affluent to spend 10-20 bucks on a book. There is no evidence that low-income Asian students need/benefit from the change.

None of those were based on materials provided by the Quant-Q creator, Insight Assessment. And, based on the NDAs, all of those books are likely unethically, or even potentially illegally, developed.

https://insightassessment.com/policies/
"Non-Disclosure and Non-Compete Agreement
By accessing the Insight Assessment online testing interface or purchasing a preview pack or instrument use licenses, all clients acknowledge that the on-line interface and the testing instrument(s) it contains or displays include proprietary business information, such as but not limited to the structure of test questions or the presentation of those questions and other information displayed in conjunction with the use of this testing interface. In the absence of a specific written agreement between the client and Insight Assessment, the client agrees that by purchasing a preview pack or testing licenses, the client and their organization, shall not disclose, copy, or replicate this testing interface or this testing instrument(s) in whole or in part in comparable or competitive product or interface of any kind. In the absence of a specific written agreement between the client and Insight Assessment, the client agrees that by accessing the testing instrument(s) for any purpose, including but not limited to previewing the instrument(s), the client and the client’s organization shall not create, design, develop, publish, market, or distribute any comparable or competitive testing instrument(s)."

"Remember that the goal of a critical thinking assessment is to measure your natural ability to think critically, so there’s no need for extensive preparation. Just be yourself and approach the assessment with a clear mind."

Ok. Do you have any evidence that test prep centers used the materials from Quant-Q? or do we have to take your words that somehow students stole the questions for them?

TJ students admitted it.

So, TJ students came to you and admitted it. Also, even if it was a real problem, FCPS could easily solve it by incorporating rules prohibiting students from discussing exam information or materials. This is a common practice used by organizations administering exams across different time zones. FCPS has done that because it's not a real problem.

No, several students shared online. Which you would know if you actually did go back and read all of the old threads.

The students agreed not to share test content/format before they took the test. How would have more rules helped?

Some parents will always look for ways to cheat the system.

This is your evidence and you want people to take you seriously. Even if it's the case, FCPS should enforce their rules the same way as they are doing with their code of ethics and conduct. They can even sue those test prep centers for using infringed materials. It's obvious to me that this was not a widespread problem as you claim.

In the off chance that you’re not just being oppositional and you really do want to learn more, get back to us after you go back and re-read the many threads.

Then maybe you won’t sound so ignorant.

But the threads don’t point to anything. It’s just anonymous posts. No links to the coveted Facebook posts, no articles about cheating on the admissions test, no links about a scandal.

It’s entirely circular.

There were definitely links to the FB posts. You’re clearly not reading the threads.

You remind me of the open school crazies who didn’t even have kids in school at the time but were very loud and very clueless.

So post them here. The links. Right here.

PP here. Fine. You got me. I admit that I have no proof whatsoever. I'm just a pathetic liar who thinks that if I repeat something enough times on an anonymous message board, that somehow makes all of my delusions true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So there's still not a single shred of evidence of a cheating scandal or people buying the test. No one is able to post a single news article or any real proof. Thanks for clearing that up for everyone.

Don’t be obtuse. No one was literally paying money and getting the test in return. They were paying for $$$$ prep that (unethically) provided access to previous/example test questions on a test that shouldn’t be prepped for. It was shady AF as many people, including former students who did the prep, have noted.

You keep moving the goalposts and arguing against a strawman. It was put forth that there was a huge cheating scandal, people were buying the test, and it was all over the news. It was also put forth that the "cheating scandal" was the main reason for the TJ admissions change. Seriously, pony up some actual evidence of this, or stop yapping. The only evidence that was provided is that people were concerned that test prep was skewing the results, and that affluent kids had an advantage. There's also a bit of hearsay that some questions on the Quant Q were the same as some practiced at Curie. I still haven't seen any evidence of a "cheating scandal," "kids (literally) buying the test," and this being "all over the news."

FWIW, Amazon sells Quant Q practice books.

There's evidence provided in this thread.Numerous first-hand accounts and multiple news sources. Not sure why you keep ignoring it.

Because the accounts and news sources show nothing of the "cheating" and "test buying" as the lie you keep on spreading.

DP.

We do know that affluent families were paying for $$$$ prep that (unethically) acquired and provided access to previous/example test questions on a test that shouldn’t be prepped for. It was shady AF as many people, including former students who did the prep, have noted.

And, we do know that FCPS wanted a way to fairly assess kids across the county without fueling a $$$$ test prep industry, giving affluent families a huge, unfair advantage.

The admissions process keeps changing because parents keep trying to game the system.

This claim is completely BS, Donald!

Places like Kaplan, Princeton, College Board, Barron's, etc. have released sample and past exam questions for decades. TJ never has prohibited students from talking about exam questions from their memory. Also, most affluent families in Fairfax are not Asian. If money can make the difference, there should be way more white students admitted in the old system than in the new system.

The biggest beneficiaries of the new admissions process are students from low-income Asian families.


https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“ “Is it gonna once again advantage those kids whose parents can pay to sign them up for special prep camps to now be prepping for science testing as well?” Megan McLaughlin asked when presented with the new plan.

Admissions director Jeremy Shughart doesn’t think so. The firm that markets the math portion of the test, Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.”

Please stop posting articles that do nothing to prove your points.

My points were:
1. non-affluent Asian students benefitted from the change

2. Quant-Q, intentionally did NOT release materials to the public - very different than SAT, ACT, etc.

3. for years, they have been looking for ways to avoid some kids having an unfair advance with test-prep

Either Quant-Q or you were lying. A 5-second search on Amazon gave me more than 15 books with Quant-Q questions. You don't have to be affluent to spend 10-20 bucks on a book. There is no evidence that low-income Asian students need/benefit from the change.

None of those were based on materials provided by the Quant-Q creator, Insight Assessment. And, based on the NDAs, all of those books are likely unethically, or even potentially illegally, developed.

https://insightassessment.com/policies/
"Non-Disclosure and Non-Compete Agreement
By accessing the Insight Assessment online testing interface or purchasing a preview pack or instrument use licenses, all clients acknowledge that the on-line interface and the testing instrument(s) it contains or displays include proprietary business information, such as but not limited to the structure of test questions or the presentation of those questions and other information displayed in conjunction with the use of this testing interface. In the absence of a specific written agreement between the client and Insight Assessment, the client agrees that by purchasing a preview pack or testing licenses, the client and their organization, shall not disclose, copy, or replicate this testing interface or this testing instrument(s) in whole or in part in comparable or competitive product or interface of any kind. In the absence of a specific written agreement between the client and Insight Assessment, the client agrees that by accessing the testing instrument(s) for any purpose, including but not limited to previewing the instrument(s), the client and the client’s organization shall not create, design, develop, publish, market, or distribute any comparable or competitive testing instrument(s)."

"Remember that the goal of a critical thinking assessment is to measure your natural ability to think critically, so there’s no need for extensive preparation. Just be yourself and approach the assessment with a clear mind."

Ok. Do you have any evidence that test prep centers used the materials from Quant-Q? or do we have to take your words that somehow students stole the questions for them?

TJ students admitted it.

So, TJ students came to you and admitted it. Also, even if it was a real problem, FCPS could easily solve it by incorporating rules prohibiting students from discussing exam information or materials. This is a common practice used by organizations administering exams across different time zones. FCPS has done that because it's not a real problem.

No, several students shared online. Which you would know if you actually did go back and read all of the old threads.

The students agreed not to share test content/format before they took the test. How would have more rules helped?

Some parents will always look for ways to cheat the system.

This is your evidence and you want people to take you seriously. Even if it's the case, FCPS should enforce their rules the same way as they are doing with their code of ethics and conduct. They can even sue those test prep centers for using infringed materials. It's obvious to me that this was not a widespread problem as you claim.

In the off chance that you’re not just being oppositional and you really do want to learn more, get back to us after you go back and re-read the many threads.

Then maybe you won’t sound so ignorant.

But the threads don’t point to anything. It’s just anonymous posts. No links to the coveted Facebook posts, no articles about cheating on the admissions test, no links about a scandal.

It’s entirely circular.

There were definitely links to the FB posts. You’re clearly not reading the threads.

You remind me of the open school crazies who didn’t even have kids in school at the time but were very loud and very clueless.

So post them here. The links. Right here.

PP here. Fine. You got me. I admit that I have no proof whatsoever. I'm just a pathetic liar who thinks that if I repeat something enough times on an anonymous message board, that somehow makes all of my delusions true.

Hey look! We now have proof that PP is a liar. It's posted on dcum, so it must be true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So there's still not a single shred of evidence of a cheating scandal or people buying the test. No one is able to post a single news article or any real proof. Thanks for clearing that up for everyone.

Don’t be obtuse. No one was literally paying money and getting the test in return. They were paying for $$$$ prep that (unethically) provided access to previous/example test questions on a test that shouldn’t be prepped for. It was shady AF as many people, including former students who did the prep, have noted.

You keep moving the goalposts and arguing against a strawman. It was put forth that there was a huge cheating scandal, people were buying the test, and it was all over the news. It was also put forth that the "cheating scandal" was the main reason for the TJ admissions change. Seriously, pony up some actual evidence of this, or stop yapping. The only evidence that was provided is that people were concerned that test prep was skewing the results, and that affluent kids had an advantage. There's also a bit of hearsay that some questions on the Quant Q were the same as some practiced at Curie. I still haven't seen any evidence of a "cheating scandal," "kids (literally) buying the test," and this being "all over the news."

FWIW, Amazon sells Quant Q practice books.

There's evidence provided in this thread.Numerous first-hand accounts and multiple news sources. Not sure why you keep ignoring it.

Because the accounts and news sources show nothing of the "cheating" and "test buying" as the lie you keep on spreading.

DP.

We do know that affluent families were paying for $$$$ prep that (unethically) acquired and provided access to previous/example test questions on a test that shouldn’t be prepped for. It was shady AF as many people, including former students who did the prep, have noted.

And, we do know that FCPS wanted a way to fairly assess kids across the county without fueling a $$$$ test prep industry, giving affluent families a huge, unfair advantage.

The admissions process keeps changing because parents keep trying to game the system.

This claim is completely BS, Donald!

Places like Kaplan, Princeton, College Board, Barron's, etc. have released sample and past exam questions for decades. TJ never has prohibited students from talking about exam questions from their memory. Also, most affluent families in Fairfax are not Asian. If money can make the difference, there should be way more white students admitted in the old system than in the new system.

The biggest beneficiaries of the new admissions process are students from low-income Asian families.


https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“ “Is it gonna once again advantage those kids whose parents can pay to sign them up for special prep camps to now be prepping for science testing as well?” Megan McLaughlin asked when presented with the new plan.

Admissions director Jeremy Shughart doesn’t think so. The firm that markets the math portion of the test, Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.”

Please stop posting articles that do nothing to prove your points.

My points were:
1. non-affluent Asian students benefitted from the change

2. Quant-Q, intentionally did NOT release materials to the public - very different than SAT, ACT, etc.

3. for years, they have been looking for ways to avoid some kids having an unfair advance with test-prep

Either Quant-Q or you were lying. A 5-second search on Amazon gave me more than 15 books with Quant-Q questions. You don't have to be affluent to spend 10-20 bucks on a book. There is no evidence that low-income Asian students need/benefit from the change.

None of those were based on materials provided by the Quant-Q creator, Insight Assessment. And, based on the NDAs, all of those books are likely unethically, or even potentially illegally, developed.

https://insightassessment.com/policies/
"Non-Disclosure and Non-Compete Agreement
By accessing the Insight Assessment online testing interface or purchasing a preview pack or instrument use licenses, all clients acknowledge that the on-line interface and the testing instrument(s) it contains or displays include proprietary business information, such as but not limited to the structure of test questions or the presentation of those questions and other information displayed in conjunction with the use of this testing interface. In the absence of a specific written agreement between the client and Insight Assessment, the client agrees that by purchasing a preview pack or testing licenses, the client and their organization, shall not disclose, copy, or replicate this testing interface or this testing instrument(s) in whole or in part in comparable or competitive product or interface of any kind. In the absence of a specific written agreement between the client and Insight Assessment, the client agrees that by accessing the testing instrument(s) for any purpose, including but not limited to previewing the instrument(s), the client and the client’s organization shall not create, design, develop, publish, market, or distribute any comparable or competitive testing instrument(s)."

"Remember that the goal of a critical thinking assessment is to measure your natural ability to think critically, so there’s no need for extensive preparation. Just be yourself and approach the assessment with a clear mind."

Ok. Do you have any evidence that test prep centers used the materials from Quant-Q? or do we have to take your words that somehow students stole the questions for them?

TJ students admitted it.

So, TJ students came to you and admitted it. Also, even if it was a real problem, FCPS could easily solve it by incorporating rules prohibiting students from discussing exam information or materials. This is a common practice used by organizations administering exams across different time zones. FCPS has done that because it's not a real problem.

No, several students shared online. Which you would know if you actually did go back and read all of the old threads.

The students agreed not to share test content/format before they took the test. How would have more rules helped?

Some parents will always look for ways to cheat the system.

This is your evidence and you want people to take you seriously. Even if it's the case, FCPS should enforce their rules the same way as they are doing with their code of ethics and conduct. They can even sue those test prep centers for using infringed materials. It's obvious to me that this was not a widespread problem as you claim.

In the off chance that you’re not just being oppositional and you really do want to learn more, get back to us after you go back and re-read the many threads.

Then maybe you won’t sound so ignorant.

But the threads don’t point to anything. It’s just anonymous posts. No links to the coveted Facebook posts, no articles about cheating on the admissions test, no links about a scandal.

It’s entirely circular.

There were definitely links to the FB posts. You’re clearly not reading the threads.

You remind me of the open school crazies who didn’t even have kids in school at the time but were very loud and very clueless.

So post them here. The links. Right here.

So won’t read the many threads of this old, beat-to-death topic AND you want others to dig up links for you?

I just googled and found some links in the first couple of results.

If your kid is as lazy as you are TJ doesn’t seem likely.

So, you supposedly found some links proving what you said, but you refuse to post them? Sounds legit.

You're the one who made the claim that it has been proven and that there are links to reputable sources indicating what you've claimed. The burden is on you to provide that proof. Right here, post a link to a news article. If you won't, you're admitting that you can't.

No, I never made that claim. You are confusing posters.

It takes 2 seconds to google to find the FB links. You really don’t care about them; you just want to be oppositional.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So there's still not a single shred of evidence of a cheating scandal or people buying the test. No one is able to post a single news article or any real proof. Thanks for clearing that up for everyone.

Don’t be obtuse. No one was literally paying money and getting the test in return. They were paying for $$$$ prep that (unethically) provided access to previous/example test questions on a test that shouldn’t be prepped for. It was shady AF as many people, including former students who did the prep, have noted.

You keep moving the goalposts and arguing against a strawman. It was put forth that there was a huge cheating scandal, people were buying the test, and it was all over the news. It was also put forth that the "cheating scandal" was the main reason for the TJ admissions change. Seriously, pony up some actual evidence of this, or stop yapping. The only evidence that was provided is that people were concerned that test prep was skewing the results, and that affluent kids had an advantage. There's also a bit of hearsay that some questions on the Quant Q were the same as some practiced at Curie. I still haven't seen any evidence of a "cheating scandal," "kids (literally) buying the test," and this being "all over the news."

FWIW, Amazon sells Quant Q practice books.

There's evidence provided in this thread.Numerous first-hand accounts and multiple news sources. Not sure why you keep ignoring it.

Because the accounts and news sources show nothing of the "cheating" and "test buying" as the lie you keep on spreading.

DP.

We do know that affluent families were paying for $$$$ prep that (unethically) acquired and provided access to previous/example test questions on a test that shouldn’t be prepped for. It was shady AF as many people, including former students who did the prep, have noted.

And, we do know that FCPS wanted a way to fairly assess kids across the county without fueling a $$$$ test prep industry, giving affluent families a huge, unfair advantage.

The admissions process keeps changing because parents keep trying to game the system.

This claim is completely BS, Donald!

Places like Kaplan, Princeton, College Board, Barron's, etc. have released sample and past exam questions for decades. TJ never has prohibited students from talking about exam questions from their memory. Also, most affluent families in Fairfax are not Asian. If money can make the difference, there should be way more white students admitted in the old system than in the new system.

The biggest beneficiaries of the new admissions process are students from low-income Asian families.


https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“ “Is it gonna once again advantage those kids whose parents can pay to sign them up for special prep camps to now be prepping for science testing as well?” Megan McLaughlin asked when presented with the new plan.

Admissions director Jeremy Shughart doesn’t think so. The firm that markets the math portion of the test, Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.”

Please stop posting articles that do nothing to prove your points.

My points were:
1. non-affluent Asian students benefitted from the change

2. Quant-Q, intentionally did NOT release materials to the public - very different than SAT, ACT, etc.

3. for years, they have been looking for ways to avoid some kids having an unfair advance with test-prep

Either Quant-Q or you were lying. A 5-second search on Amazon gave me more than 15 books with Quant-Q questions. You don't have to be affluent to spend 10-20 bucks on a book. There is no evidence that low-income Asian students need/benefit from the change.

None of those were based on materials provided by the Quant-Q creator, Insight Assessment. And, based on the NDAs, all of those books are likely unethically, or even potentially illegally, developed.

https://insightassessment.com/policies/
"Non-Disclosure and Non-Compete Agreement
By accessing the Insight Assessment online testing interface or purchasing a preview pack or instrument use licenses, all clients acknowledge that the on-line interface and the testing instrument(s) it contains or displays include proprietary business information, such as but not limited to the structure of test questions or the presentation of those questions and other information displayed in conjunction with the use of this testing interface. In the absence of a specific written agreement between the client and Insight Assessment, the client agrees that by purchasing a preview pack or testing licenses, the client and their organization, shall not disclose, copy, or replicate this testing interface or this testing instrument(s) in whole or in part in comparable or competitive product or interface of any kind. In the absence of a specific written agreement between the client and Insight Assessment, the client agrees that by accessing the testing instrument(s) for any purpose, including but not limited to previewing the instrument(s), the client and the client’s organization shall not create, design, develop, publish, market, or distribute any comparable or competitive testing instrument(s)."

"Remember that the goal of a critical thinking assessment is to measure your natural ability to think critically, so there’s no need for extensive preparation. Just be yourself and approach the assessment with a clear mind."

Ok. Do you have any evidence that test prep centers used the materials from Quant-Q? or do we have to take your words that somehow students stole the questions for them?

TJ students admitted it.

So, TJ students came to you and admitted it. Also, even if it was a real problem, FCPS could easily solve it by incorporating rules prohibiting students from discussing exam information or materials. This is a common practice used by organizations administering exams across different time zones. FCPS has done that because it's not a real problem.

No, several students shared online. Which you would know if you actually did go back and read all of the old threads.

The students agreed not to share test content/format before they took the test. How would have more rules helped?

Some parents will always look for ways to cheat the system.

This is your evidence and you want people to take you seriously. Even if it's the case, FCPS should enforce their rules the same way as they are doing with their code of ethics and conduct. They can even sue those test prep centers for using infringed materials. It's obvious to me that this was not a widespread problem as you claim.

In the off chance that you’re not just being oppositional and you really do want to learn more, get back to us after you go back and re-read the many threads.

Then maybe you won’t sound so ignorant.

But the threads don’t point to anything. It’s just anonymous posts. No links to the coveted Facebook posts, no articles about cheating on the admissions test, no links about a scandal.

It’s entirely circular.

DP. Goodness, this is exhausting.

It's not a cheating scandal, and the people who are referring to it as such are doing no favors at all to the point.

What we know beyond a shadow of a doubt is that TJ students in the Classes of 2023 and 2024, when they applied to TJ, saw word-for-word longform questions on the Quant-Q that they had seen previously through their classes at Curie. They've confirmed this on a Facebook post on a page called TJ Vents, and you can find those posts by going to that page (it is public) and searching for the word "Curie". You'll find a few references to the Curie Commons at the school, but once you get to July and August of 2020 you will find the posts in question. The initial allegation was made by an anonymous TJ student, but it was confirmed in the comments by TJ students who were on the infamous Curie lists.

These students had nothing to gain and a lot reputationally to lose by openly admitting to this, and as such there's not really a good reason to doubt it. The only question to then ask is "How did Curie get access to these word-for-word questions, and why did they only have access to them beginning with the Classes of 2023 and 2024 when the Class of 2022 also took the exam?"

It is a matter of speculation that they debriefed their Class of 2022 TJ applicants in order to get that information, but it's also by far the simplest answer. And because the kids who would have provided this information would have been 13 or 14 years old at the time, and because all they would have done was violate an NDA as a minor, it's not something that would have triggered some huge investigation or news stories.

But people on here are butthurt because Curie killed their golden goose and they're in denial, so they're looking for "proof" that is unnecessary and will never come.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So there's still not a single shred of evidence of a cheating scandal or people buying the test. No one is able to post a single news article or any real proof. Thanks for clearing that up for everyone.

Don’t be obtuse. No one was literally paying money and getting the test in return. They were paying for $$$$ prep that (unethically) provided access to previous/example test questions on a test that shouldn’t be prepped for. It was shady AF as many people, including former students who did the prep, have noted.

You keep moving the goalposts and arguing against a strawman. It was put forth that there was a huge cheating scandal, people were buying the test, and it was all over the news. It was also put forth that the "cheating scandal" was the main reason for the TJ admissions change. Seriously, pony up some actual evidence of this, or stop yapping. The only evidence that was provided is that people were concerned that test prep was skewing the results, and that affluent kids had an advantage. There's also a bit of hearsay that some questions on the Quant Q were the same as some practiced at Curie. I still haven't seen any evidence of a "cheating scandal," "kids (literally) buying the test," and this being "all over the news."

FWIW, Amazon sells Quant Q practice books.

There's evidence provided in this thread.Numerous first-hand accounts and multiple news sources. Not sure why you keep ignoring it.

Because the accounts and news sources show nothing of the "cheating" and "test buying" as the lie you keep on spreading.

DP.

We do know that affluent families were paying for $$$$ prep that (unethically) acquired and provided access to previous/example test questions on a test that shouldn’t be prepped for. It was shady AF as many people, including former students who did the prep, have noted.

And, we do know that FCPS wanted a way to fairly assess kids across the county without fueling a $$$$ test prep industry, giving affluent families a huge, unfair advantage.

The admissions process keeps changing because parents keep trying to game the system.

This claim is completely BS, Donald!

Places like Kaplan, Princeton, College Board, Barron's, etc. have released sample and past exam questions for decades. TJ never has prohibited students from talking about exam questions from their memory. Also, most affluent families in Fairfax are not Asian. If money can make the difference, there should be way more white students admitted in the old system than in the new system.

The biggest beneficiaries of the new admissions process are students from low-income Asian families.


https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“ “Is it gonna once again advantage those kids whose parents can pay to sign them up for special prep camps to now be prepping for science testing as well?” Megan McLaughlin asked when presented with the new plan.

Admissions director Jeremy Shughart doesn’t think so. The firm that markets the math portion of the test, Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.”

Please stop posting articles that do nothing to prove your points.

My points were:
1. non-affluent Asian students benefitted from the change

2. Quant-Q, intentionally did NOT release materials to the public - very different than SAT, ACT, etc.

3. for years, they have been looking for ways to avoid some kids having an unfair advance with test-prep

Either Quant-Q or you were lying. A 5-second search on Amazon gave me more than 15 books with Quant-Q questions. You don't have to be affluent to spend 10-20 bucks on a book. There is no evidence that low-income Asian students need/benefit from the change.

None of those were based on materials provided by the Quant-Q creator, Insight Assessment. And, based on the NDAs, all of those books are likely unethically, or even potentially illegally, developed.

https://insightassessment.com/policies/
"Non-Disclosure and Non-Compete Agreement
By accessing the Insight Assessment online testing interface or purchasing a preview pack or instrument use licenses, all clients acknowledge that the on-line interface and the testing instrument(s) it contains or displays include proprietary business information, such as but not limited to the structure of test questions or the presentation of those questions and other information displayed in conjunction with the use of this testing interface. In the absence of a specific written agreement between the client and Insight Assessment, the client agrees that by purchasing a preview pack or testing licenses, the client and their organization, shall not disclose, copy, or replicate this testing interface or this testing instrument(s) in whole or in part in comparable or competitive product or interface of any kind. In the absence of a specific written agreement between the client and Insight Assessment, the client agrees that by accessing the testing instrument(s) for any purpose, including but not limited to previewing the instrument(s), the client and the client’s organization shall not create, design, develop, publish, market, or distribute any comparable or competitive testing instrument(s)."

"Remember that the goal of a critical thinking assessment is to measure your natural ability to think critically, so there’s no need for extensive preparation. Just be yourself and approach the assessment with a clear mind."

Ok. Do you have any evidence that test prep centers used the materials from Quant-Q? or do we have to take your words that somehow students stole the questions for them?

TJ students admitted it.

So, TJ students came to you and admitted it. Also, even if it was a real problem, FCPS could easily solve it by incorporating rules prohibiting students from discussing exam information or materials. This is a common practice used by organizations administering exams across different time zones. FCPS has done that because it's not a real problem.

No, several students shared online. Which you would know if you actually did go back and read all of the old threads.

The students agreed not to share test content/format before they took the test. How would have more rules helped?

Some parents will always look for ways to cheat the system.

This is your evidence and you want people to take you seriously. Even if it's the case, FCPS should enforce their rules the same way as they are doing with their code of ethics and conduct. They can even sue those test prep centers for using infringed materials. It's obvious to me that this was not a widespread problem as you claim.

In the off chance that you’re not just being oppositional and you really do want to learn more, get back to us after you go back and re-read the many threads.

Then maybe you won’t sound so ignorant.

But the threads don’t point to anything. It’s just anonymous posts. No links to the coveted Facebook posts, no articles about cheating on the admissions test, no links about a scandal.

It’s entirely circular.

There were definitely links to the FB posts. You’re clearly not reading the threads.

You remind me of the open school crazies who didn’t even have kids in school at the time but were very loud and very clueless.

So post them here. The links. Right here.

PP here. Fine. You got me. I admit that I have no proof whatsoever. I'm just a pathetic liar who thinks that if I repeat something enough times on an anonymous message board, that somehow makes all of my delusions true.

Hey look! We now have proof that PP is a liar. It's posted on dcum, so it must be true.

I’m too lazy to read the posts so it never happened.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So there's still not a single shred of evidence of a cheating scandal or people buying the test. No one is able to post a single news article or any real proof. Thanks for clearing that up for everyone.

Don’t be obtuse. No one was literally paying money and getting the test in return. They were paying for $$$$ prep that (unethically) provided access to previous/example test questions on a test that shouldn’t be prepped for. It was shady AF as many people, including former students who did the prep, have noted.

You keep moving the goalposts and arguing against a strawman. It was put forth that there was a huge cheating scandal, people were buying the test, and it was all over the news. It was also put forth that the "cheating scandal" was the main reason for the TJ admissions change. Seriously, pony up some actual evidence of this, or stop yapping. The only evidence that was provided is that people were concerned that test prep was skewing the results, and that affluent kids had an advantage. There's also a bit of hearsay that some questions on the Quant Q were the same as some practiced at Curie. I still haven't seen any evidence of a "cheating scandal," "kids (literally) buying the test," and this being "all over the news."

FWIW, Amazon sells Quant Q practice books.

There's evidence provided in this thread.Numerous first-hand accounts and multiple news sources. Not sure why you keep ignoring it.

Because the accounts and news sources show nothing of the "cheating" and "test buying" as the lie you keep on spreading.

DP.

We do know that affluent families were paying for $$$$ prep that (unethically) acquired and provided access to previous/example test questions on a test that shouldn’t be prepped for. It was shady AF as many people, including former students who did the prep, have noted.

And, we do know that FCPS wanted a way to fairly assess kids across the county without fueling a $$$$ test prep industry, giving affluent families a huge, unfair advantage.

The admissions process keeps changing because parents keep trying to game the system.

This claim is completely BS, Donald!

Places like Kaplan, Princeton, College Board, Barron's, etc. have released sample and past exam questions for decades. TJ never has prohibited students from talking about exam questions from their memory. Also, most affluent families in Fairfax are not Asian. If money can make the difference, there should be way more white students admitted in the old system than in the new system.

The biggest beneficiaries of the new admissions process are students from low-income Asian families.


https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“ “Is it gonna once again advantage those kids whose parents can pay to sign them up for special prep camps to now be prepping for science testing as well?” Megan McLaughlin asked when presented with the new plan.

Admissions director Jeremy Shughart doesn’t think so. The firm that markets the math portion of the test, Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.”

Please stop posting articles that do nothing to prove your points.

My points were:
1. non-affluent Asian students benefitted from the change

2. Quant-Q, intentionally did NOT release materials to the public - very different than SAT, ACT, etc.

3. for years, they have been looking for ways to avoid some kids having an unfair advance with test-prep

Either Quant-Q or you were lying. A 5-second search on Amazon gave me more than 15 books with Quant-Q questions. You don't have to be affluent to spend 10-20 bucks on a book. There is no evidence that low-income Asian students need/benefit from the change.

None of those were based on materials provided by the Quant-Q creator, Insight Assessment. And, based on the NDAs, all of those books are likely unethically, or even potentially illegally, developed.

https://insightassessment.com/policies/
"Non-Disclosure and Non-Compete Agreement
By accessing the Insight Assessment online testing interface or purchasing a preview pack or instrument use licenses, all clients acknowledge that the on-line interface and the testing instrument(s) it contains or displays include proprietary business information, such as but not limited to the structure of test questions or the presentation of those questions and other information displayed in conjunction with the use of this testing interface. In the absence of a specific written agreement between the client and Insight Assessment, the client agrees that by purchasing a preview pack or testing licenses, the client and their organization, shall not disclose, copy, or replicate this testing interface or this testing instrument(s) in whole or in part in comparable or competitive product or interface of any kind. In the absence of a specific written agreement between the client and Insight Assessment, the client agrees that by accessing the testing instrument(s) for any purpose, including but not limited to previewing the instrument(s), the client and the client’s organization shall not create, design, develop, publish, market, or distribute any comparable or competitive testing instrument(s)."

"Remember that the goal of a critical thinking assessment is to measure your natural ability to think critically, so there’s no need for extensive preparation. Just be yourself and approach the assessment with a clear mind."

Ok. Do you have any evidence that test prep centers used the materials from Quant-Q? or do we have to take your words that somehow students stole the questions for them?

TJ students admitted it.

So, TJ students came to you and admitted it. Also, even if it was a real problem, FCPS could easily solve it by incorporating rules prohibiting students from discussing exam information or materials. This is a common practice used by organizations administering exams across different time zones. FCPS has done that because it's not a real problem.

No, several students shared online. Which you would know if you actually did go back and read all of the old threads.

The students agreed not to share test content/format before they took the test. How would have more rules helped?

Some parents will always look for ways to cheat the system.

This is your evidence and you want people to take you seriously. Even if it's the case, FCPS should enforce their rules the same way as they are doing with their code of ethics and conduct. They can even sue those test prep centers for using infringed materials. It's obvious to me that this was not a widespread problem as you claim.

In the off chance that you’re not just being oppositional and you really do want to learn more, get back to us after you go back and re-read the many threads.

Then maybe you won’t sound so ignorant.

But the threads don’t point to anything. It’s just anonymous posts. No links to the coveted Facebook posts, no articles about cheating on the admissions test, no links about a scandal.

It’s entirely circular.

There were definitely links to the FB posts. You’re clearly not reading the threads.

You remind me of the open school crazies who didn’t even have kids in school at the time but were very loud and very clueless.

So post them here. The links. Right here.

So won’t read the many threads of this old, beat-to-death topic AND you want others to dig up links for you?

I just googled and found some links in the first couple of results.

If your kid is as lazy as you are TJ doesn’t seem likely.

So, you supposedly found some links proving what you said, but you refuse to post them? Sounds legit.

You're the one who made the claim that it has been proven and that there are links to reputable sources indicating what you've claimed. The burden is on you to provide that proof. Right here, post a link to a news article. If you won't, you're admitting that you can't.

No, I never made that claim. You are confusing posters.

It takes 2 seconds to google to find the FB links. You really don’t care about them; you just want to be oppositional.

You could end the debate right now if you post those links that you found in 2 seconds. Why won't you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So there's still not a single shred of evidence of a cheating scandal or people buying the test. No one is able to post a single news article or any real proof. Thanks for clearing that up for everyone.

Don’t be obtuse. No one was literally paying money and getting the test in return. They were paying for $$$$ prep that (unethically) provided access to previous/example test questions on a test that shouldn’t be prepped for. It was shady AF as many people, including former students who did the prep, have noted.

You keep moving the goalposts and arguing against a strawman. It was put forth that there was a huge cheating scandal, people were buying the test, and it was all over the news. It was also put forth that the "cheating scandal" was the main reason for the TJ admissions change. Seriously, pony up some actual evidence of this, or stop yapping. The only evidence that was provided is that people were concerned that test prep was skewing the results, and that affluent kids had an advantage. There's also a bit of hearsay that some questions on the Quant Q were the same as some practiced at Curie. I still haven't seen any evidence of a "cheating scandal," "kids (literally) buying the test," and this being "all over the news."

FWIW, Amazon sells Quant Q practice books.

There's evidence provided in this thread.Numerous first-hand accounts and multiple news sources. Not sure why you keep ignoring it.

Because the accounts and news sources show nothing of the "cheating" and "test buying" as the lie you keep on spreading.

DP.

We do know that affluent families were paying for $$$$ prep that (unethically) acquired and provided access to previous/example test questions on a test that shouldn’t be prepped for. It was shady AF as many people, including former students who did the prep, have noted.

And, we do know that FCPS wanted a way to fairly assess kids across the county without fueling a $$$$ test prep industry, giving affluent families a huge, unfair advantage.

The admissions process keeps changing because parents keep trying to game the system.

This claim is completely BS, Donald!

Places like Kaplan, Princeton, College Board, Barron's, etc. have released sample and past exam questions for decades. TJ never has prohibited students from talking about exam questions from their memory. Also, most affluent families in Fairfax are not Asian. If money can make the difference, there should be way more white students admitted in the old system than in the new system.

The biggest beneficiaries of the new admissions process are students from low-income Asian families.


https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“ “Is it gonna once again advantage those kids whose parents can pay to sign them up for special prep camps to now be prepping for science testing as well?” Megan McLaughlin asked when presented with the new plan.

Admissions director Jeremy Shughart doesn’t think so. The firm that markets the math portion of the test, Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.”

Please stop posting articles that do nothing to prove your points.

My points were:
1. non-affluent Asian students benefitted from the change

2. Quant-Q, intentionally did NOT release materials to the public - very different than SAT, ACT, etc.

3. for years, they have been looking for ways to avoid some kids having an unfair advance with test-prep

Either Quant-Q or you were lying. A 5-second search on Amazon gave me more than 15 books with Quant-Q questions. You don't have to be affluent to spend 10-20 bucks on a book. There is no evidence that low-income Asian students need/benefit from the change.

None of those were based on materials provided by the Quant-Q creator, Insight Assessment. And, based on the NDAs, all of those books are likely unethically, or even potentially illegally, developed.

https://insightassessment.com/policies/
"Non-Disclosure and Non-Compete Agreement
By accessing the Insight Assessment online testing interface or purchasing a preview pack or instrument use licenses, all clients acknowledge that the on-line interface and the testing instrument(s) it contains or displays include proprietary business information, such as but not limited to the structure of test questions or the presentation of those questions and other information displayed in conjunction with the use of this testing interface. In the absence of a specific written agreement between the client and Insight Assessment, the client agrees that by purchasing a preview pack or testing licenses, the client and their organization, shall not disclose, copy, or replicate this testing interface or this testing instrument(s) in whole or in part in comparable or competitive product or interface of any kind. In the absence of a specific written agreement between the client and Insight Assessment, the client agrees that by accessing the testing instrument(s) for any purpose, including but not limited to previewing the instrument(s), the client and the client’s organization shall not create, design, develop, publish, market, or distribute any comparable or competitive testing instrument(s)."

"Remember that the goal of a critical thinking assessment is to measure your natural ability to think critically, so there’s no need for extensive preparation. Just be yourself and approach the assessment with a clear mind."

Ok. Do you have any evidence that test prep centers used the materials from Quant-Q? or do we have to take your words that somehow students stole the questions for them?

TJ students admitted it.

So, TJ students came to you and admitted it. Also, even if it was a real problem, FCPS could easily solve it by incorporating rules prohibiting students from discussing exam information or materials. This is a common practice used by organizations administering exams across different time zones. FCPS has done that because it's not a real problem.

No, several students shared online. Which you would know if you actually did go back and read all of the old threads.

The students agreed not to share test content/format before they took the test. How would have more rules helped?

Some parents will always look for ways to cheat the system.

This is your evidence and you want people to take you seriously. Even if it's the case, FCPS should enforce their rules the same way as they are doing with their code of ethics and conduct. They can even sue those test prep centers for using infringed materials. It's obvious to me that this was not a widespread problem as you claim.

In the off chance that you’re not just being oppositional and you really do want to learn more, get back to us after you go back and re-read the many threads.

Then maybe you won’t sound so ignorant.

But the threads don’t point to anything. It’s just anonymous posts. No links to the coveted Facebook posts, no articles about cheating on the admissions test, no links about a scandal.

It’s entirely circular.

DP. Goodness, this is exhausting.

It's not a cheating scandal, and the people who are referring to it as such are doing no favors at all to the point.

What we know beyond a shadow of a doubt is that TJ students in the Classes of 2023 and 2024, when they applied to TJ, saw word-for-word longform questions on the Quant-Q that they had seen previously through their classes at Curie. They've confirmed this on a Facebook post on a page called TJ Vents, and you can find those posts by going to that page (it is public) and searching for the word "Curie". You'll find a few references to the Curie Commons at the school, but once you get to July and August of 2020 you will find the posts in question. The initial allegation was made by an anonymous TJ student, but it was confirmed in the comments by TJ students who were on the infamous Curie lists.

These students had nothing to gain and a lot reputationally to lose by openly admitting to this, and as such there's not really a good reason to doubt it. The only question to then ask is "How did Curie get access to these word-for-word questions, and why did they only have access to them beginning with the Classes of 2023 and 2024 when the Class of 2022 also took the exam?"

It is a matter of speculation that they debriefed their Class of 2022 TJ applicants in order to get that information, but it's also by far the simplest answer. And because the kids who would have provided this information would have been 13 or 14 years old at the time, and because all they would have done was violate an NDA as a minor, it's not something that would have triggered some huge investigation or news stories.

But people on here are butthurt because Curie killed their golden goose and they're in denial, so they're looking for "proof" that is unnecessary and will never come.

This has been all very clearly spelled out before. The “proof!” PP doesn’t actually want any info (that is easily google-able) they just want to argue.