SWW - when do notices go out about interviews?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm fine with not having a standardized test...just use GPA and a lottery. At least that's fair.

Agreed. And then high-performing kids who don't get in won't feel they have been rejected or somehow failed; instead they'd realize it was just a case of bad luck.

Selective school processes do not exist to make kids feel good. Even with an entrance exam, there are kids who feel bad if they do not get in. Further, there are plenty of kids who understand that they do not have the same opportunities and privileges as other kids, opportunities and privileges that inevitably lead to higher academic achievement, thereby leading to higher acceptance rates in selective schools. And maybe they feel bad about that. Maybe we can work on those systems? I am all for making processes fair for ALL kids, but any time something might impact high SES kids in any way that does not reinforce their entitlement, schools are supposed to bend over backwards to make sure they feel good about the process? And yes, there are some low SES, non-white, high achieving kids, like my kid, who might also feel bad if they get rejected. But my kid also does not feel a sense of entitlement. She knows she is worthy, but she does not think anything is owed to her. Her sense of self is not wrapped up a high school acceptance, and she knows she will do just great somewhere else. Maybe work on your kid's self-esteem not being tied to being accepted to SWW instead of trying to tailor the process to them.

Congrats on having a kid with a healthy sense of self. I wish we all did but we don't. Beyond that, you missed my point. My point was that the current version--and the one from the past three years--make it SEEM like a meritocracy when a lot of the result is quite arbitrary. That's why I'd prefer a lottery--a 13-year-olds would then understand that it was luck, and not anything they did *wrong.* DC doesn't feel entitled to a spot but is also having a hard time grasping that they didn't do something bad or make a mistake.

I have no interest in tailoring the process to my kid. I just know a LOT of highly qualified kids who are very disappointed and wondering what they should have done differently, when in fact, the real problem is the low number of seats, not anything they could have said or done.

You have no basis to be telling me (or anyone else on this anonymous board) what we should work on in our parenting. Maybe step down off your high horse for a few minutes.

Nope. PP is right. You completely miss their point.

Except that PP and I (who wrote the "seem like a meritocracy" post above) are BOTH arguing for something against systems that privilege white, wealthy families--but they decided (for reasons I can't fathom) that I must not be AND chose to critique my parenting. But fine, all's good. Keep on encouraging folks to attack each other!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm fine with not having a standardized test...just use GPA and a lottery. At least that's fair.

Agreed. And then high-performing kids who don't get in won't feel they have been rejected or somehow failed; instead they'd realize it was just a case of bad luck.

Selective school processes do not exist to make kids feel good. Even with an entrance exam, there are kids who feel bad if they do not get in. Further, there are plenty of kids who understand that they do not have the same opportunities and privileges as other kids, opportunities and privileges that inevitably lead to higher academic achievement, thereby leading to higher acceptance rates in selective schools. And maybe they feel bad about that. Maybe we can work on those systems? I am all for making processes fair for ALL kids, but any time something might impact high SES kids in any way that does not reinforce their entitlement, schools are supposed to bend over backwards to make sure they feel good about the process? And yes, there are some low SES, non-white, high achieving kids, like my kid, who might also feel bad if they get rejected. But my kid also does not feel a sense of entitlement. She knows she is worthy, but she does not think anything is owed to her. Her sense of self is not wrapped up a high school acceptance, and she knows she will do just great somewhere else. Maybe work on your kid's self-esteem not being tied to being accepted to SWW instead of trying to tailor the process to them.

Congrats on having a kid with a healthy sense of self. I wish we all did but we don't. Beyond that, you missed my point. My point was that the current version--and the one from the past three years--make it SEEM like a meritocracy when a lot of the result is quite arbitrary. That's why I'd prefer a lottery--a 13-year-olds would then understand that it was luck, and not anything they did *wrong.* DC doesn't feel entitled to a spot but is also having a hard time grasping that they didn't do something bad or make a mistake.

I have no interest in tailoring the process to my kid. I just know a LOT of highly qualified kids who are very disappointed and wondering what they should have done differently, when in fact, the real problem is the low number of seats, not anything they could have said or done.

You have no basis to be telling me (or anyone else on this anonymous board) what we should work on in our parenting. Maybe step down off your high horse for a few minutes.

Nope. PP is right. You completely miss their point.

Agree with this. The "healthy sense of self" thing is exactly the point and is 💯 a result of parenting. Sometimes when you are entitled it's very hard to see it from the outside -- it's a blind spot. That's what is going on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm fine with not having a standardized test...just use GPA and a lottery. At least that's fair.

Agreed. And then high-performing kids who don't get in won't feel they have been rejected or somehow failed; instead they'd realize it was just a case of bad luck.

Selective school processes do not exist to make kids feel good. Even with an entrance exam, there are kids who feel bad if they do not get in. Further, there are plenty of kids who understand that they do not have the same opportunities and privileges as other kids, opportunities and privileges that inevitably lead to higher academic achievement, thereby leading to higher acceptance rates in selective schools. And maybe they feel bad about that. Maybe we can work on those systems? I am all for making processes fair for ALL kids, but any time something might impact high SES kids in any way that does not reinforce their entitlement, schools are supposed to bend over backwards to make sure they feel good about the process? And yes, there are some low SES, non-white, high achieving kids, like my kid, who might also feel bad if they get rejected. But my kid also does not feel a sense of entitlement. She knows she is worthy, but she does not think anything is owed to her. Her sense of self is not wrapped up a high school acceptance, and she knows she will do just great somewhere else. Maybe work on your kid's self-esteem not being tied to being accepted to SWW instead of trying to tailor the process to them.

Congrats on having a kid with a healthy sense of self. I wish we all did but we don't. Beyond that, you missed my point. My point was that the current version--and the one from the past three years--make it SEEM like a meritocracy when a lot of the result is quite arbitrary. That's why I'd prefer a lottery--a 13-year-olds would then understand that it was luck, and not anything they did *wrong.* DC doesn't feel entitled to a spot but is also having a hard time grasping that they didn't do something bad or make a mistake.

I have no interest in tailoring the process to my kid. I just know a LOT of highly qualified kids who are very disappointed and wondering what they should have done differently, when in fact, the real problem is the low number of seats, not anything they could have said or done.

You have no basis to be telling me (or anyone else on this anonymous board) what we should work on in our parenting. Maybe step down off your high horse for a few minutes.

Nope. PP is right. You completely miss their point.

Agree with this. The "healthy sense of self" thing is exactly the point and is 💯 a result of parenting. Sometimes when you are entitled it's very hard to see it from the outside -- it's a blind spot. That's what is going on.

Agreed. The poster was making the point that if kids feel bad from a sense of entitlement, that’s not the school’s fault. And there are a lot of kids who feel bad for other reasons, but the original poster doesn’t care about that. It’s about checking entitlement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if we can expect any further transparency without going the route of a letter writing campaign, op-Ed's, council hearings, and FOIA requests. Sherwood walls would save us all the aggravation, and just explain themselves. Report all the stats.

I filed a FOIA request asking for the admissions criteria for this year. Why it is secret? When I asked they refused to share any specifics. They seem to have forgotten they are a public school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seems like near unanimous support here for the entrance exam to return. Let's reach out to the media and start the conversation.

By "unanimous" do you mean the 4-5 repeat posters? On DCUM? LOL Of course, you can "go to the media" with whatever you want, but I find it HILARIOUS that you are basing your idea of "unanimous support" from a DCUM echo chamber. Be sure to tell the media all about your convo on DCUM.

What reasonable person is opposed to an entrance exam?

There are plenty of reasonable people who do not favor an entrance exam. There are reasonable arguments for and against. Just because those arguments against are not your arguments does not make them unreasonable.

No reasonable person would support the current Walls admissions process.

Imagine if a selective college counted GPA for 10%, 2 teacher letter recs as 30%, and a 5-minute interview and 1 paragraph essay as 60%.

Completely absurd.

+1. Sure, they have a floor of 3.7 but that is meaningless in DC with massive grade inflation.

Worse, colleges look the rigor of transcripts and re-weight to ensure that an A in PE doesn't count the same as an A in accelerated math. Walls doesn't do that either.

Totally ridiculous admissions sytem.

+2

And then the cycle continues at Walls...

The junior class at Walls has an average GPA of 3.93, a number school counselor Kathryn Moore called “very high.” She also noted that the median GPA was over a 4.0. That means that well over half the class had a GPA above 4.0 at the start of the 2022-23 school year. This number will likely only increase, as juniors take on more AP classes, which are graded on a 5.0 scale....

Mr. Jordan said that the pandemic-era grading policy “does not push students to excel,” and that students will face a “rude awakening” when they get to college. “It gives them a cushion and a false sense of their performance,” he said. “Colleges do not have a WS or [a] 63 percent [minimum].”

Some students do understand this. “It’s definitely hurt my work ethic,” Douglas said. “When I go to college, it’s going to hurt me because I’m not actively putting in as much effort as I should or as I could because of those policies. So when I go to college, I won’t be as prepared. I won’t have the strong work ethic that I probably could have [had] if those policies weren’t in place.

https://www.swwrookery.com/post/hugely-inflat...-more-harm-than-good

Take this up with DCPS. They set the ridiculous grading policy. Grade inflation is not a Walls’ specific issue. It’s DCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seems like near unanimous support here for the entrance exam to return. Let's reach out to the media and start the conversation.

By "unanimous" do you mean the 4-5 repeat posters? On DCUM? LOL Of course, you can "go to the media" with whatever you want, but I find it HILARIOUS that you are basing your idea of "unanimous support" from a DCUM echo chamber. Be sure to tell the media all about your convo on DCUM.

What reasonable person is opposed to an entrance exam?

There are plenty of reasonable people who do not favor an entrance exam. There are reasonable arguments for and against. Just because those arguments against are not your arguments does not make them unreasonable.

No reasonable person would support the current Walls admissions process.

Imagine if a selective college counted GPA for 10%, 2 teacher letter recs as 30%, and a 5-minute interview and 1 paragraph essay as 60%.

Completely absurd.

+1. Sure, they have a floor of 3.7 but that is meaningless in DC with massive grade inflation.

Worse, colleges look the rigor of transcripts and re-weight to ensure that an A in PE doesn't count the same as an A in accelerated math. Walls doesn't do that either.

Totally ridiculous admissions sytem.

+2

And then the cycle continues at Walls...

The junior class at Walls has an average GPA of 3.93, a number school counselor Kathryn Moore called “very high.” She also noted that the median GPA was over a 4.0. That means that well over half the class had a GPA above 4.0 at the start of the 2022-23 school year. This number will likely only increase, as juniors take on more AP classes, which are graded on a 5.0 scale....

Mr. Jordan said that the pandemic-era grading policy “does not push students to excel,” and that students will face a “rude awakening” when they get to college. “It gives them a cushion and a false sense of their performance,” he said. “Colleges do not have a WS or [a] 63 percent [minimum].”

Some students do understand this. “It’s definitely hurt my work ethic,” Douglas said. “When I go to college, it’s going to hurt me because I’m not actively putting in as much effort as I should or as I could because of those policies. So when I go to college, I won’t be as prepared. I won’t have the strong work ethic that I probably could have [had] if those policies weren’t in place.

https://www.swwrookery.com/post/hugely-inflat...-more-harm-than-good

Take this up with DCPS. They set the ridiculous grading policy. Grade inflation is not a Walls’ specific issue. It’s DCPS.

Except the article posted is specific to Walls…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if we can expect any further transparency without going the route of a letter writing campaign, op-Ed's, council hearings, and FOIA requests. Sherwood walls would save us all the aggravation, and just explain themselves. Report all the stats.

I filed a FOIA request asking for the admissions criteria for this year. Why it is secret? When I asked they refused to share any specifics. They seem to have forgotten they are a public school.

Please update when you hear back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if we can expect any further transparency without going the route of a letter writing campaign, op-Ed's, council hearings, and FOIA requests. Sherwood walls would save us all the aggravation, and just explain themselves. Report all the stats.

I filed a FOIA request asking for the admissions criteria for this year. Why it is secret? When I asked they refused to share any specifics. They seem to have forgotten they are a public school.

Please update when you hear back.

+2 please share the information on the forum.

[Anonymous]

Good luck to students interviewing tomorrow

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seems like near unanimous support here for the entrance exam to return. Let's reach out to the media and start the conversation.

By "unanimous" do you mean the 4-5 repeat posters? On DCUM? LOL Of course, you can "go to the media" with whatever you want, but I find it HILARIOUS that you are basing your idea of "unanimous support" from a DCUM echo chamber. Be sure to tell the media all about your convo on DCUM.

What reasonable person is opposed to an entrance exam?

There are plenty of reasonable people who do not favor an entrance exam. There are reasonable arguments for and against. Just because those arguments against are not your arguments does not make them unreasonable.

No reasonable person would support the current Walls admissions process.

Imagine if a selective college counted GPA for 10%, 2 teacher letter recs as 30%, and a 5-minute interview and 1 paragraph essay as 60%.

Completely absurd.

I understand your math here, but it is disingenuous to suggest that GPA is 10% when SWW won't even let in kids below a high GPA threshold. Once in, maybe they then account for GPA differently, but at that point, they are splitting hairs between As and A-s. So no, GPA is not 10% when you look at the whole process. If that were the case, they would be interviewing kids with Bs, Cs, or even Ds. And good luck even if you're a B+ student. It is perfectly normal to count GPA as a lower percentage once you are looking at kids who are all between 3.7 and 4.0.

DP. I agree with your reasoning on GPA. I also think that if the teacher reqs were similar (ie needing to be above a threshold but not trying to split hairs to rank kids) they could still be included. Of course, they might not distinguish in this applicant pool that already has a high GPA, but that's really the point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:On this last one - I bet you could play this out quietly internally to DCPS/OSSE/DME and guess how it'd go.

My guess is that if you took the top 10% of EACH middle school and did a lottery you'd get a more diverse pool by a lot.

(And I'd want it to be that private school kids get in after this, i.e., they get the scraps. But I can't tell whether that's doable.)

If able to get individualized data (never publicly disclosed) you could take a backward looking pool, e.g., 2017 matriculants who were top 10% of GPA from each middle school, then see their school completions, GPAs, and PARCC and other test scores. I think that the top 10% of the worst DCPS middle schools in performance terms are probably quite malleable into top performers with good support. Hopefully historical data backs that up.

I expect that proximity and transportation would limit attendance, and other factors would probably continue to lead to white, high-income, etc., overrepresentation, but it could probably generate a high performing school.

Having talked all this out...you almost imagine that DCPS could do this as a new selective school. First, you do a summer session with the top 10% of 7th and 8th graders invited. I've heard of some states that have a highperforming student 'camp' experience like this. Not sure what grades, where. I bet some of you all know what I'm talking about. Then if that experience shows that this 'DCPS academic summer camp' resembles a possible school cohort, launch it. Build it somewhere actually accessible. (MacArthur is an accessibility crime.) Like at Phelps or something.

But don't build on SWW or Banneker or Brown or Bard or whatever like this. Have it be its own thing.

Now, I don't think DCPS wouldn't do it unless we had some real demographic pressure. My sense is that that pressure is declining.

But it's an idea. Rather than a rigor/curriculum-based school-building process like BASIS, a cohort-first process.

That's really well considered. (I think the influence of ease of commute is often overlooked on these boards). I do find myself wondering if there should be a step (prior to the top whatever percent being moved to a lottery) where the ones below a certain threshold (behind grade level by 1, 2, 3, etc years?) are taken out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like you are looking for more of a STEM based focused school like McKinley Tech or Thomas Jefferson in VA. Like many have said already Walls is a humanities based school. Yes they have the good test scores in the city for Math but its not the focus. AI is taking over right before our eyes many of the lucrative programming jobs will be lost in 20 years if not sooner. Walls curriculum is focused on how history has shaped the world, thinking of the world as a global community, how can we make a positive impact in our communities and the world. The understanding of our fellow man and empathy for those less fortunate. Ambassadors, Consulate Officers, Political Leaders, Lawyers. They have partnerships with GW which has partnerships with State Department which is literally 2 blocks away. Developing independent, critical thinkers, and problem solvers of the next generation regarding national and global issues. Being great at Math is awesome but think of emotional intelligence as well. Ideally a student would be great at both or at least working towards improving. IMO.

Current AI appears to be more on track to replace lower level writing in the fields you cited than true math. (Some programming jobs may be at risk but STEM isn't just repetitive programming)

Can't remember ever seeing McKinley and TJ lumped together. Does Walls closeness to GW extend beyond proximity?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if we can expect any further transparency without going the route of a letter writing campaign, op-Ed's, council hearings, and FOIA requests. Sherwood walls would save us all the aggravation, and just explain themselves. Report all the stats.

I filed a FOIA request asking for the admissions criteria for this year. Why it is a secret? When I asked they refused to share any specifics. They seem to have forgotten they are a public school.

Please update when you hear back.

+2 please share the information on the forum.

I will, but you can also file your own to be sure you don't miss anything. It's not complex. Just send an email to DCPS's FOIA officer at [e-mail] and ask for the information you would like. If they deny your request, you can appeal to the Mayor's office.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Tracking here this thread has jumped from:

1. Did you get an interview yes/no?
2. When/Why did the weigh recommendations letter so heavily. Who graded these letter and how?
3. Should they reinstate the entrance exam?
4. They should use PARCC scores or other standardized tests.
5. Students should not be a part of the interview process.
6. What is the most fair and equitable process?

GPA, interview, essay would be my preference for admission. And stop advertising a 3.0 as a minimum when a 3.7 historically has been the minimum for an interview.

In different emails from SWW they told both that 3.0 and 3.7 was the cut-off. How can they not know?

They seem confused by their own standards and can't keep their story straight. The admissions process is a mess, and anything but transparent and fair.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seems like near unanimous support here for the entrance exam to return. Let's reach out to the media and start the conversation.

By "unanimous" do you mean the 4-5 repeat posters? On DCUM? LOL Of course, you can "go to the media" with whatever you want, but I find it HILARIOUS that you are basing your idea of "unanimous support" from a DCUM echo chamber. Be sure to tell the media all about your convo on DCUM.

What reasonable person is opposed to an entrance exam?

There are plenty of reasonable people who do not favor an entrance exam. There are reasonable arguments for and against. Just because those arguments against are not your arguments does not make them unreasonable.

No reasonable person would support the current Walls admissions process.

Imagine if a selective college counted GPA for 10%, 2 teacher letter recs as 30%, and a 5-minute interview and 1 paragraph essay as 60%.

Completely absurd.

+1. Sure, they have a floor of 3.7 but that is meaningless in DC with massive grade inflation.

Worse, colleges look the rigor of transcripts and re-weight to ensure that an A in PE doesn't count the same as an A in accelerated math. Walls doesn't do that either.

Totally ridiculous admissions sytem.

+2

And then the cycle continues at Walls...

The junior class at Walls has an average GPA of 3.93, a number school counselor Kathryn Moore called “very high.” She also noted that the median GPA was over a 4.0. That means that well over half the class had a GPA above 4.0 at the start of the 2022-23 school year. This number will likely only increase, as juniors take on more AP classes, which are graded on a 5.0 scale....

Mr. Jordan said that the pandemic-era grading policy “does not push students to excel,” and that students will face a “rude awakening” when they get to college. “It gives them a cushion and a false sense of their performance,” he said. “Colleges do not have a WS or [a] 63 percent [minimum].”

Some students do understand this. “It’s definitely hurt my work ethic,” Douglas said. “When I go to college, it’s going to hurt me because I’m not actively putting in as much effort as I should or as I could because of those policies. So when I go to college, I won’t be as prepared. I won’t have the strong work ethic that I probably could have [had] if those policies weren’t in place.

https://www.swwrookery.com/post/hugely-inflat...-more-harm-than-good

Take this up with DCPS. They set the ridiculous grading policy. Grade inflation is not a Walls’ specific issue. It’s DCPS.

Except the article posted is specific to Walls…

Which follows DCPS policy. Kids at walls are nothing if not compliant and grade driven. But those grades are inflated because of DCPS policies that teachers have to follow.