Lock him up indictment FL

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is it even relevant if any of this stuff WAS declassified (which it clearly was not, but for argument's sake)? They're still government records. He still had plans for attacking Iran (or whatever) sitting in a box at Mar-a-Lago after being subpoenaed for them and was showing them to people, and had them moved around so they wouldn't be located.

+1

People defending Trump are arguing Presidential Records Act, when the indictment is completely silent on said Act with the counts coming mostly under the Espionage Act and obstruction charges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I really think many of you are missing the obstruction. He had ample opportunity to work with NARA to return everything. He purposely mislead everyone. It never had to end this way had he returned everything.

Joking aside, they aren't missing the obstruction. They are choosing to willfully ignore it. The truth is that the security powers that be are willing to work with you if you honestly screw up and come to them with a mea culpa. Not only was Trump taking the documents not a screw up, but intentional, he then chose to lie, have others lie on his behalf, and hide them.

People like to point at the Reality Winner case. She's not in jail because she accidentally took a document out of the building that got mixed in her personal stuff. She's in jail because she removed it intentionally.

Reality Winner had no ability to declassify documents. Trump did and no, he doesn’t have to ask permission of anyone to do so.

You people have some weird mythology in your heads about "the President can declassify." There's a process for declassifying documents, even for the President. The process is NOT the President waving his hands and gesturing broadly, saying "I declassify this stuff' or simply willing it to be declassified with his mind. And if the process isn't followed, there is no way of knowing what is or isn't declassified and it would be chaos. If the downgrading and declassification process isn't followed or there is no evidence it was followed then it remains classified.

You are incorrect.

Nope. There is a legal process for declassification. Please provide a link that shows a president can think it or will it, and it becomes so.

Per Constitutional lawyers:

A former president has the legal right to access any and all of the documents created during his presidency, classified or otherwise. The second before a President leaves office, by his very actions alone in taking documents he can be said to have declassified them.

“Therefore, the former president cannot be charged under the Espionage Act of 1917 for this reason and more,” said Levin, who served as chief of state to Attorney General Edwin Meese during the Reagan administration.”

In addition, Trumps’ lawyers had been in active negotiations regarding the documents, starting only a year after Trump left office. Like with Obama, this kind of back-and-forth is the norm and can go on for years. And the National Archives is already in possession of the vast majority of documents created during the Trump administration, and the ones at issue are a very relative few, so yes, he has cooperated. Under Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution, the president is “the executive branch and he’s the commander in chief.” So Trump is not guilty of violating the Espionage Act, which was invoked in the affidavit to obtain a search warrant. In addition, there are no criminal penalties associated with the Presidential Records Act; that has been cited by the FBI.

Now let’s talk Espionage Act and Clinton: Clinton had classified documents on an unsecured email server at her home in Chappaqua, New York/. Clinton wasn’t president, so she didn’t even have the protections presidents do.

“That violates the Espionage Act,” Levin said of failing to properly secure the documents, some highly classified, from foreign adversaries”.

Mark Levin is the source of this take? You may as well quote Stephen Miller or Steve Bannon.

Can you please tell me what disqualifies Levin in your mind? Not educated enough? Not enough experience?

He is misrepresenting the law, as he has done many times before.

A tweet from the vaunted Politifact:

Of course it didn't work. This is DCUM after all.

https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1667725962778382336

Politifact is quoting what a republican senator said. What is true is that the senator said it. What is also true is that has nothing to do with Trump's indictment, which has nothing to do with the Presidential Records Act.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:The indictment is online at NYtimes and it’s nuts. This mofo kept these secrets in a shower and on stage at Maralgo.

This photo is even worse than the shower and ballroom ones IMO.

Jesus; what a dump.

I agree

The people here are too evil and crooked to even care.

Even you guys aren’t stupid enough to think the cases are similar.

They aren't. Biden should never have removed classified documents, given he never had to power to declassify - ever. So finding them in his garage is worse. Removing the photo from this thread is an admission of that.

I'd really encourage you to read the full indictment. The Biden "case" and this one aren't remotely similar. In fact, none of the Trump charges involve the initial removal of the classified info. They only charged what he did after the subpoena.

They never are. Again, because you seem to be too dumb to understand. Biden should NEVER have had classified documents ANYWHERE in his home. EVER.

But Trump should have? The documents were taken to his home after he was no longer president. That was okay?

He had the power to declassify. Biden never had that power as VP or as a Senator.

“This is secret information. Look, look at this.” —Donald J Trump, post-presidency

Please, can I hear that tape as well?

So arrest Biden too, right? Trump had the power to declassify and no, he didn’t need permission.

Could you translate that into rational language?

Biden, as then senator and then VP, had classified documents that he could not have declassified at any point in time. So he should be arrested right?

Please read up on what Trump did. He is not being charged for what Biden did. You sound incredibly uninformed.

What’s uninformed is you not understanding that Biden broke the law. You all seem to be misled into thinking that it’s not about breaking the law, it’s about how the law was broken. That’s why this case will end up being decided by the SC. What this indictment is all about is tying up Trump from rallies and campaigning. I was actually thinking of voting for someone else but now, I am 110% behind Trump. I don’t’ like the man but I HATE miscarriages of justice more. And it has been three years of not prosecuting hardened criminals leading to the deaths of others. Three years of blatantly not protecting our borders. Three years of seeing FBI agents placed in churches and other institutions to spy on Americans. Three years of watching people lose jobs, being dragged off to jail for defending children, coverups of attacks on women in public schools, being lied to by some of our most prominent medical institutions so they could be bought off by big Pharma.

Imagine how big the crimes in government have to be in order for government to want to put Trump away this badly, how big those crimes must be to want to turn on a huge part of the population of the US. How big the payoffs are going to be if we just dispose of our Constitution. I wonder how far this government will go to ‘put down’ an ‘insurrection’. Remember, the very definition of tyranny is when the guns of the government turn inward.

You are delusional. Show us where Biden refused to comply with investigators regarding documents, where he deliberately hid them, got others to help hide them, repeatedly told lies about all of it - you can't. And as for all your other supposed government lies and coverups and malfeasance, it happened on Trump's watch - yet somehow you still think Trump is the solution?

JFC, Biden should not have even have the opportunity to comply. A US Senator or VP does NOT have the powers of declassification. Trump did under the Presidential Records Act. And btw, neither did Hillary Clinton as Secretary of State. Those were blatant violations of law. Not ‘hiding them’ , as you say, isn’t even a consideration. It was illegal for them to possess those documents


Under Trump’s watch? No (I’d call you Ma’am or Sir, but who knows how you identify and Lord knows, I would not want to be ‘impolite’).

Someone who doesn’t know that the Secretary of State, as an original classification authority, does in fact have declassification powers, or that declassification powers have nothing to with the PRA, should probably sit down and shut up about this.

She can only declassify her own stuff. It’s not near as broad as the President’s:

“ The Department of State, to include Hillary Clinton as the Secretary of State, does have Originator Classification Authority. This means she carried the authority to control the level at which material generated by the Department of State is classified, within the boundaries of applicable doctrine. There is some material that must be classified as a matter of course, to include correspondence with Foreign Governments, controlled schedules, and information garnered from classified material.

However, there was information contained within her emails that had been classified by government agencies outside of the Department of State, beyond the scope of her OCA. Among her emails on the 'private server' were satellite imagery of foreign countries, classified by the intelligence agencies. These images are controlled as Top Secret, Special Compartmentalized Information, Talent Keyhole, but were located on her personal email server and mislabeled as unclassified. These items should never have been present on an unclassified, or general use, information system. The Government uses specially developed cyber enclaves to protect this data, segregating it from everything else. In order for these pictures to exist on an unclassified system, someone illegally copied them from a system cleared Top Secret information, crossed the physical air gap to a general use computer, and then emailed them to her. The situation is further complicated by the use of the personal server; if these communications had been made via a Government Information system, there would be a firm management and accounting of the emails. This would have satisfied the requirements of the Federal Records Act. By operating on via a personal server, she bypassed the established mechanisms for information assurance and accounting.”

You’re not talking about the things that were classified at a later date, after they were emailed to her, I hope.

Clinton did not have any classified “documents” in her emails. The retroactive “classification” was a determination that her staff sent her a few emails that referenced classified matters, and they should not have done so (even though some of the “secrets” were public knowledge that had already been reported in the media). No classified documents or sources were in the emails, but there were unclassified emails among staff who all held clearances that mentioned something that was known from classified sources.

That type of inadvertent insider communication has never been prosecuted, and very rarely would even result in a reprimand for the sender.

Hillary Clinton: “I did not email any classified material to anyone on my email.”

James Comey: “Let me tell you what we found.”

-110 emails
-52 email chains
-8 of those chains were top secret
-36 were secret
-8 contained confidential information

Hillary Clinton: “it wasn’t the best choice, I made a mistake.”

James Comey: “This is going to be an unusual statement, in at least a couple of ways, although there IS EVIDENCE, our judgement is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case.”

They were classified AFTER THE FACT. At the time she turned her server over to the DOJ, there were no classified materials on it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The indictment is online at NYtimes and it’s nuts. This mofo kept these secrets in a shower and on stage at Maralgo.

This photo is even worse than the shower and ballroom ones IMO.

Jesus; what a dump.

I agree

The people here are too evil and crooked to even care.

Even you guys aren’t stupid enough to think the cases are similar.

They aren't. Biden should never have removed classified documents, given he never had to power to declassify - ever. So finding them in his garage is worse. Removing the photo from this thread is an admission of that.

I'd really encourage you to read the full indictment. The Biden "case" and this one aren't remotely similar. In fact, none of the Trump charges involve the initial removal of the classified info. They only charged what he did after the subpoena.

They never are. Again, because you seem to be too dumb to understand. Biden should NEVER have had classified documents ANYWHERE in his home. EVER.

But Trump should have? The documents were taken to his home after he was no longer president. That was okay?

He had the power to declassify. Biden never had that power as VP or as a Senator.

“This is secret information. Look, look at this.” —Donald J Trump, post-presidency

Please, can I hear that tape as well?

So arrest Biden too, right? Trump had the power to declassify and no, he didn’t need permission.

Could you translate that into rational language?

Biden, as then senator and then VP, had classified documents that he could not have declassified at any point in time. So he should be arrested right?

Please read up on what Trump did. He is not being charged for what Biden did. You sound incredibly uninformed.

What’s uninformed is you not understanding that Biden broke the law. You all seem to be misled into thinking that it’s not about breaking the law, it’s about how the law was broken. That’s why this case will end up being decided by the SC. What this indictment is all about is tying up Trump from rallies and campaigning. I was actually thinking of voting for someone else but now, I am 110% behind Trump. I don’t’ like the man but I HATE miscarriages of justice more. And it has been three years of not prosecuting hardened criminals leading to the deaths of others. Three years of blatantly not protecting our borders. Three years of seeing FBI agents placed in churches and other institutions to spy on Americans. Three years of watching people lose jobs, being dragged off to jail for defending children, coverups of attacks on women in public schools, being lied to by some of our most prominent medical institutions so they could be bought off by big Pharma.

Imagine how big the crimes in government have to be in order for government to want to put Trump away this badly, how big those crimes must be to want to turn on a huge part of the population of the US. How big the payoffs are going to be if we just dispose of our Constitution. I wonder how far this government will go to ‘put down’ an ‘insurrection’. Remember, the very definition of tyranny is when the guns of the government turn inward.

You are delusional. Show us where Biden refused to comply with investigators regarding documents, where he deliberately hid them, got others to help hide them, repeatedly told lies about all of it - you can't. And as for all your other supposed government lies and coverups and malfeasance, it happened on Trump's watch - yet somehow you still think Trump is the solution?

JFC, Biden should not have even have the opportunity to comply. A US Senator or VP does NOT have the powers of declassification. Trump did under the Presidential Records Act. And btw, neither did Hillary Clinton as Secretary of State. Those were blatant violations of law. Not ‘hiding them’ , as you say, isn’t even a consideration. It was illegal for them to possess those documents


Under Trump’s watch? No (I’d call you Ma’am or Sir, but who knows how you identify and Lord knows, I would not want to be ‘impolite’).

Someone who doesn’t know that the Secretary of State, as an original classification authority, does in fact have declassification powers, or that declassification powers have nothing to with the PRA, should probably sit down and shut up about this.

She can only declassify her own stuff. It’s not near as broad as the President’s:

“ The Department of State, to include Hillary Clinton as the Secretary of State, does have Originator Classification Authority. This means she carried the authority to control the level at which material generated by the Department of State is classified, within the boundaries of applicable doctrine. There is some material that must be classified as a matter of course, to include correspondence with Foreign Governments, controlled schedules, and information garnered from classified material.

However, there was information contained within her emails that had been classified by government agencies outside of the Department of State, beyond the scope of her OCA. Among her emails on the 'private server' were satellite imagery of foreign countries, classified by the intelligence agencies. These images are controlled as Top Secret, Special Compartmentalized Information, Talent Keyhole, but were located on her personal email server and mislabeled as unclassified. These items should never have been present on an unclassified, or general use, information system. The Government uses specially developed cyber enclaves to protect this data, segregating it from everything else. In order for these pictures to exist on an unclassified system, someone illegally copied them from a system cleared Top Secret information, crossed the physical air gap to a general use computer, and then emailed them to her. The situation is further complicated by the use of the personal server; if these communications had been made via a Government Information system, there would be a firm management and accounting of the emails. This would have satisfied the requirements of the Federal Records Act. By operating on via a personal server, she bypassed the established mechanisms for information assurance and accounting.”

You’re not talking about the things that were classified at a later date, after they were emailed to her, I hope.

Clinton did not have any classified “documents” in her emails. The retroactive “classification” was a determination that her staff sent her a few emails that referenced classified matters, and they should not have done so (even though some of the “secrets” were public knowledge that had already been reported in the media). No classified documents or sources were in the emails, but there were unclassified emails among staff who all held clearances that mentioned something that was known from classified sources.

That type of inadvertent insider communication has never been prosecuted, and very rarely would even result in a reprimand for the sender.

Hillary Clinton: “I did not email any classified material to anyone on my email.”

James Comey: “Let me tell you what we found.”

-110 emails
-52 email chains
-8 of those chains were top secret
-36 were secret
-8 contained confidential information

Hillary Clinton: “it wasn’t the best choice, I made a mistake.”

James Comey: “This is going to be an unusual statement, in at least a couple of ways, although there IS EVIDENCE, our judgement is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case.”

So if Hilary was guilty, and Trump has exponentially more classified info floating around his golf clubs, then he is exponentially more guilty.
That's what you are saying.

Trump traitors going to traitor.

If Hillary were guilty, then Trump's corrupt AG would have indicted her and prosecuted her. They didn't. What does that mean?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I really think many of you are missing the obstruction. He had ample opportunity to work with NARA to return everything. He purposely mislead everyone. It never had to end this way had he returned everything.

Joking aside, they aren't missing the obstruction. They are choosing to willfully ignore it. The truth is that the security powers that be are willing to work with you if you honestly screw up and come to them with a mea culpa. Not only was Trump taking the documents not a screw up, but intentional, he then chose to lie, have others lie on his behalf, and hide them.

People like to point at the Reality Winner case. She's not in jail because she accidentally took a document out of the building that got mixed in her personal stuff. She's in jail because she removed it intentionally.

Reality Winner had no ability to declassify documents. Trump did and no, he doesn’t have to ask permission of anyone to do so.

You people have some weird mythology in your heads about "the President can declassify." There's a process for declassifying documents, even for the President. The process is NOT the President waving his hands and gesturing broadly, saying "I declassify this stuff' or simply willing it to be declassified with his mind. And if the process isn't followed, there is no way of knowing what is or isn't declassified and it would be chaos. If the downgrading and declassification process isn't followed or there is no evidence it was followed then it remains classified.

You are incorrect.

Nope. There is a legal process for declassification. Please provide a link that shows a president can think it or will it, and it becomes so.

Per Constitutional lawyers:

A former president has the legal right to access any and all of the documents created during his presidency, classified or otherwise. The second before a President leaves office, by his very actions alone in taking documents he can be said to have declassified them.

“Therefore, the former president cannot be charged under the Espionage Act of 1917 for this reason and more,” said Levin, who served as chief of state to Attorney General Edwin Meese during the Reagan administration.”

In addition, Trumps’ lawyers had been in active negotiations regarding the documents, starting only a year after Trump left office. Like with Obama, this kind of back-and-forth is the norm and can go on for years. And the National Archives is already in possession of the vast majority of documents created during the Trump administration, and the ones at issue are a very relative few, so yes, he has cooperated. Under Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution, the president is “the executive branch and he’s the commander in chief.” So Trump is not guilty of violating the Espionage Act, which was invoked in the affidavit to obtain a search warrant. In addition, there are no criminal penalties associated with the Presidential Records Act; that has been cited by the FBI.

Now let’s talk Espionage Act and Clinton: Clinton had classified documents on an unsecured email server at her home in Chappaqua, New York/. Clinton wasn’t president, so she didn’t even have the protections presidents do.

“That violates the Espionage Act,” Levin said of failing to properly secure the documents, some highly classified, from foreign adversaries”.

Mark Levin is the source of this take? You may as well quote Stephen Miller or Steve Bannon.

Can you please tell me what disqualifies Levin in your mind? Not educated enough? Not enough experience?

He is misrepresenting the law, as he has done many times before.

A tweet from the vaunted Politifact:

Of course it didn't work. This is DCUM after all.

https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1667725962778382336

He was the president in 2017. He is not the president now.

Still refers to the documents he took with him. Unless you are claiming he snuck into the WH and stole some while sleepy Joe was sleeping?

I truly don’t understand why you think this matters. He didn’t declassify them. If he did, it still wouldn’t make any difference on the espionage counts, since those law don’t rely on classification.

He took them. He refused to return them. He shared them. He obstructed justice by hiding them and lying.

None of that relies on classification status.

+1

[Anonymous]

the phenomenon is happening in this very thread

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:the phenomenon is happening in this very thread

Depressing but true. I can’t believe we still have morons both sidesing the two parties, like they’re remotely equivalent. One side is sincere and one side is snickering at their latest poop post.

[Anonymous]

I hope someone posted this already (didn't read all 42 pages of this thread!), but I have a question:
Isn't it a crime to threaten the POTUS?

But here's what this guy said in response to the indictment of Trump:

On Pete Santilli’s talk show, the conservative provocateur declared that if he were the commandant of the Marine Corps, he would order “every single Marine” to grab President Biden, “throw him in freakin’ zip ties in the back of a freakin’ pickup truck,” and “get him out of the White House.”

Shouldn't he be getting a knock on his door from the FBI right about now (or yesterday)?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Judge Cannon will cause all type of problems for the Feds. She does not really care about the legal system. She only cares about maga and trump.

She was severely criticized by the higher court for her whackadoodle rulings in the documents case previously.
Do you really think she's going to step far out of bounds again and risk another whacking by the appeals court?
Plus, she can be removed and replaced.
I think Smith will ask for that based on her previous judicial conduct.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I really think many of you are missing the obstruction. He had ample opportunity to work with NARA to return everything. He purposely mislead everyone. It never had to end this way had he returned everything.

Joking aside, they aren't missing the obstruction. They are choosing to willfully ignore it. The truth is that the security powers that be are willing to work with you if you honestly screw up and come to them with a mea culpa. Not only was Trump taking the documents not a screw up, but intentional, he then chose to lie, have others lie on his behalf, and hide them.

People like to point at the Reality Winner case. She's not in jail because she accidentally took a document out of the building that got mixed in her personal stuff. She's in jail because she removed it intentionally.

Reality Winner had no ability to declassify documents. Trump did and no, he doesn’t have to ask permission of anyone to do so.

You people have some weird mythology in your heads about "the President can declassify." There's a process for declassifying documents, even for the President. The process is NOT the President waving his hands and gesturing broadly, saying "I declassify this stuff' or simply willing it to be declassified with his mind. And if the process isn't followed, there is no way of knowing what is or isn't declassified and it would be chaos. If the downgrading and declassification process isn't followed or there is no evidence it was followed then it remains classified.

You are incorrect.

Nope. There is a legal process for declassification. Please provide a link that shows a president can think it or will it, and it becomes so.

Per Constitutional lawyers:

A former president has the legal right to access any and all of the documents created during his presidency, classified or otherwise. The second before a President leaves office, by his very actions alone in taking documents he can be said to have declassified them.

“Therefore, the former president cannot be charged under the Espionage Act of 1917 for this reason and more,” said Levin, who served as chief of state to Attorney General Edwin Meese during the Reagan administration.”

In addition, Trumps’ lawyers had been in active negotiations regarding the documents, starting only a year after Trump left office. Like with Obama, this kind of back-and-forth is the norm and can go on for years. And the National Archives is already in possession of the vast majority of documents created during the Trump administration, and the ones at issue are a very relative few, so yes, he has cooperated. Under Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution, the president is “the executive branch and he’s the commander in chief.” So Trump is not guilty of violating the Espionage Act, which was invoked in the affidavit to obtain a search warrant. In addition, there are no criminal penalties associated with the Presidential Records Act; that has been cited by the FBI.

Now let’s talk Espionage Act and Clinton: Clinton had classified documents on an unsecured email server at her home in Chappaqua, New York/. Clinton wasn’t president, so she didn’t even have the protections presidents do.

“That violates the Espionage Act,” Levin said of failing to properly secure the documents, some highly classified, from foreign adversaries”.

Mark Levin is the source of this take? You may as well quote Stephen Miller or Steve Bannon.

Can you please tell me what disqualifies Levin in your mind? Not educated enough? Not enough experience?

He isn't de facto disqualified, but he is arguing this case through a lens of supporting Trump rather than through a lens of what the law says, and what the case law supports.

DP... Mark Levin is a completely unhinged far right kook in my book. He's an outright racist and xenophobe, he's done crazy things in the realm of slavery-denial by claiming the three-fifths compromise in the Constitution wasn't about slavery or white supremacy. https://www.mediamatters.org/mark-levin/mark-levin-absurdly-claims-three-fifths-compromise-constitution-had-nothing-do-slavery

He repeatedly referred to Obama voters as "islamo-nazis" and claimed Obama and the Supreme Court were conspiring to bring Stalinism to the United States. He routinely screams at any caller to his show who proves him wrong, states facts contrary to his narrative calling them "pukes" or "morons" or "drones," shouting them down and then hanging up on them rather than hearing and debating facts or different, legitimate viewpoints.

Levin is a climate denier of the worst kind, with absolutely idiotic takes on it - https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/8/31/1694892/-Mark-Levin-just-made-possibly-the-most-hilarious-climate-denial-argument-ever

He peddles tons of debunked conspiracy theories, for example he bizarrely claims that Iraq WMDs were actually found, but that George W. Bush and Karl Rove used the White House to cover it up for "political reasons" even though the non-existent WMDs were the basis for the Iraq war. https://www.salon.com/2014/10/21/meet_the_iraq_war_truthers_bush_was_right_on_wmds_but_the_truth_was_covered_up_by_bush/

One could go on and on and on with all of the absolutely wrong and completely unhinged things that Mark Levin has said (or more likely screamed) into his spittle-covered radio microphone over the years.

Not credible. Whatever respectable prior career he had is completely diminished by everything he's done on the radio over the last 20+ years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really think many of you are missing the obstruction. He had ample opportunity to work with NARA to return everything. He purposely mislead everyone. It never had to end this way had he returned everything.

Joking aside, they aren't missing the obstruction. They are choosing to willfully ignore it. The truth is that the security powers that be are willing to work with you if you honestly screw up and come to them with a mea culpa. Not only was Trump taking the documents not a screw up, but intentional, he then chose to lie, have others lie on his behalf, and hide them.

People like to point at the Reality Winner case. She's not in jail because she accidentally took a document out of the building that got mixed in her personal stuff. She's in jail because she removed it intentionally.

Reality Winner had no ability to declassify documents. Trump did and no, he doesn’t have to ask permission of anyone to do so.

You people have some weird mythology in your heads about "the President can declassify." There's a process for declassifying documents, even for the President. The process is NOT the President waving his hands and gesturing broadly, saying "I declassify this stuff' or simply willing it to be declassified with his mind. And if the process isn't followed, there is no way of knowing what is or isn't declassified and it would be chaos. If the downgrading and declassification process isn't followed or there is no evidence it was followed then it remains classified.

You are incorrect.

Nope. There is a legal process for declassification. Please provide a link that shows a president can think it or will it, and it becomes so.

Per Constitutional lawyers:

A former president has the legal right to access any and all of the documents created during his presidency, classified or otherwise. The second before a President leaves office, by his very actions alone in taking documents he can be said to have declassified them.

“Therefore, the former president cannot be charged under the Espionage Act of 1917 for this reason and more,” said Levin, who served as chief of state to Attorney General Edwin Meese during the Reagan administration.”

In addition, Trumps’ lawyers had been in active negotiations regarding the documents, starting only a year after Trump left office. Like with Obama, this kind of back-and-forth is the norm and can go on for years. And the National Archives is already in possession of the vast majority of documents created during the Trump administration, and the ones at issue are a very relative few, so yes, he has cooperated. Under Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution, the president is “the executive branch and he’s the commander in chief.” So Trump is not guilty of violating the Espionage Act, which was invoked in the affidavit to obtain a search warrant. In addition, there are no criminal penalties associated with the Presidential Records Act; that has been cited by the FBI.

Now let’s talk Espionage Act and Clinton: Clinton had classified documents on an unsecured email server at her home in Chappaqua, New York/. Clinton wasn’t president, so she didn’t even have the protections presidents do.

“That violates the Espionage Act,” Levin said of failing to properly secure the documents, some highly classified, from foreign adversaries”.

Mark Levin is the source of this take? You may as well quote Stephen Miller or Steve Bannon.

Can you please tell me what disqualifies Levin in your mind? Not educated enough? Not enough experience?

He is misrepresenting the law, as he has done many times before.

A tweet from the vaunted Politifact:

Of course it didn't work. This is DCUM after all.

https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1667725962778382336

Politifact is quoting what a republican senator said. What is true is that the senator said it. What is also true is that has nothing to do with Trump's indictment, which has nothing to do with the Presidential Records Act.

Nice try

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I really think many of you are missing the obstruction. He had ample opportunity to work with NARA to return everything. He purposely mislead everyone. It never had to end this way had he returned everything.

Joking aside, they aren't missing the obstruction. They are choosing to willfully ignore it. The truth is that the security powers that be are willing to work with you if you honestly screw up and come to them with a mea culpa. Not only was Trump taking the documents not a screw up, but intentional, he then chose to lie, have others lie on his behalf, and hide them.

People like to point at the Reality Winner case. She's not in jail because she accidentally took a document out of the building that got mixed in her personal stuff. She's in jail because she removed it intentionally.

Reality Winner had no ability to declassify documents. Trump did and no, he doesn’t have to ask permission of anyone to do so.

You people have some weird mythology in your heads about "the President can declassify." There's a process for declassifying documents, even for the President. The process is NOT the President waving his hands and gesturing broadly, saying "I declassify this stuff' or simply willing it to be declassified with his mind. And if the process isn't followed, there is no way of knowing what is or isn't declassified and it would be chaos. If the downgrading and declassification process isn't followed or there is no evidence it was followed then it remains classified.

You are incorrect.

Nope. There is a legal process for declassification. Please provide a link that shows a president can think it or will it, and it becomes so.

Per Constitutional lawyers:

A former president has the legal right to access any and all of the documents created during his presidency, classified or otherwise. The second before a President leaves office, by his very actions alone in taking documents he can be said to have declassified them.

“Therefore, the former president cannot be charged under the Espionage Act of 1917 for this reason and more,” said Levin, who served as chief of state to Attorney General Edwin Meese during the Reagan administration.”

In addition, Trumps’ lawyers had been in active negotiations regarding the documents, starting only a year after Trump left office. Like with Obama, this kind of back-and-forth is the norm and can go on for years. And the National Archives is already in possession of the vast majority of documents created during the Trump administration, and the ones at issue are a very relative few, so yes, he has cooperated. Under Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution, the president is “the executive branch and he’s the commander in chief.” So Trump is not guilty of violating the Espionage Act, which was invoked in the affidavit to obtain a search warrant. In addition, there are no criminal penalties associated with the Presidential Records Act; that has been cited by the FBI.

Now let’s talk Espionage Act and Clinton: Clinton had classified documents on an unsecured email server at her home in Chappaqua, New York/. Clinton wasn’t president, so she didn’t even have the protections presidents do.

“That violates the Espionage Act,” Levin said of failing to properly secure the documents, some highly classified, from foreign adversaries”.

Mark Levin is the source of this take? You may as well quote Stephen Miller or Steve Bannon.

Can you please tell me what disqualifies Levin in your mind? Not educated enough? Not enough experience?

He isn't de facto disqualified, but he is arguing this case through a lens of supporting Trump rather than through a lens of what the law says, and what the case law supports.

DP... Mark Levin is a completely unhinged far right kook in my book. He's an outright racist and xenophobe, he's done crazy things in the realm of slavery-denial by claiming the three-fifths compromise in the Constitution wasn't about slavery or white supremacy. https://www.mediamatters.org/mark-levin/mark-levin-absurdly-claims-three-fifths-compromise-constitution-had-nothing-do-slavery

He repeatedly referred to Obama voters as "islamo-nazis" and claimed Obama and the Supreme Court were conspiring to bring Stalinism to the United States. He routinely screams at any caller to his show who proves him wrong, states facts contrary to his narrative calling them "pukes" or "morons" or "drones," shouting them down and then hanging up on them rather than hearing and debating facts or different, legitimate viewpoints.

Levin is a climate denier of the worst kind, with absolutely idiotic takes on it - https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/8/31/1694892/-Mark-Levin-just-made-possibly-the-most-hilarious-climate-denial-argument-ever

He peddles tons of debunked conspiracy theories, for example he bizarrely claims that Iraq WMDs were actually found, but that George W. Bush and Karl Rove used the White House to cover it up for "political reasons" even though the non-existent WMDs were the basis for the Iraq war. https://www.salon.com/2014/10/21/meet_the_iraq_war_truthers_bush_was_right_on_wmds_but_the_truth_was_covered_up_by_bush/

One could go on and on and on with all of the absolutely wrong and completely unhinged things that Mark Levin has said (or more likely screamed) into his spittle-covered radio microphone over the years.

Not credible. Whatever respectable prior career he had is completely diminished by everything he's done on the radio over the last 20+ years.

That's your opinion. Levin is a constitutional lawyer and scholar.

Any you quote.....Salon?

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Anonymous wrote:The indictment is online at NYtimes and it’s nuts. This mofo kept these secrets in a shower and on stage at Maralgo.

This photo is even worse than the shower and ballroom ones IMO.

Jesus; what a dump.

I agree

The people here are too evil and crooked to even care.

Even you guys aren’t stupid enough to think the cases are similar.

They aren't. Biden should never have removed classified documents, given he never had to power to declassify - ever. So finding them in his garage is worse. Removing the photo from this thread is an admission of that.

I'd really encourage you to read the full indictment. The Biden "case" and this one aren't remotely similar. In fact, none of the Trump charges involve the initial removal of the classified info. They only charged what he did after the subpoena.

They never are. Again, because you seem to be too dumb to understand. Biden should NEVER have had classified documents ANYWHERE in his home. EVER.

But Trump should have? The documents were taken to his home after he was no longer president. That was okay?

He had the power to declassify. Biden never had that power as VP or as a Senator.

“This is secret information. Look, look at this.” —Donald J Trump, post-presidency

Please, can I hear that tape as well?

So arrest Biden too, right? Trump had the power to declassify and no, he didn’t need permission.

Could you translate that into rational language?

Biden, as then senator and then VP, had classified documents that he could not have declassified at any point in time. So he should be arrested right?

Please read up on what Trump did. He is not being charged for what Biden did. You sound incredibly uninformed.

What’s uninformed is you not understanding that Biden broke the law. You all seem to be misled into thinking that it’s not about breaking the law, it’s about how the law was broken. That’s why this case will end up being decided by the SC. What this indictment is all about is tying up Trump from rallies and campaigning. I was actually thinking of voting for someone else but now, I am 110% behind Trump. I don’t’ like the man but I HATE miscarriages of justice more. And it has been three years of not prosecuting hardened criminals leading to the deaths of others. Three years of blatantly not protecting our borders. Three years of seeing FBI agents placed in churches and other institutions to spy on Americans. Three years of watching people lose jobs, being dragged off to jail for defending children, coverups of attacks on women in public schools, being lied to by some of our most prominent medical institutions so they could be bought off by big Pharma.

Imagine how big the crimes in government have to be in order for government to want to put Trump away this badly, how big those crimes must be to want to turn on a huge part of the population of the US. How big the payoffs are going to be if we just dispose of our Constitution. I wonder how far this government will go to ‘put down’ an ‘insurrection’. Remember, the very definition of tyranny is when the guns of the government turn inward.

You are delusional. Show us where Biden refused to comply with investigators regarding documents, where he deliberately hid them, got others to help hide them, repeatedly told lies about all of it - you can't. And as for all your other supposed government lies and coverups and malfeasance, it happened on Trump's watch - yet somehow you still think Trump is the solution?

JFC, Biden should not have even have the opportunity to comply. A US Senator or VP does NOT have the powers of declassification. Trump did under the Presidential Records Act. And btw, neither did Hillary Clinton as Secretary of State. Those were blatant violations of law. Not ‘hiding them’ , as you say, isn’t even a consideration. It was illegal for them to possess those documents


Under Trump’s watch? No (I’d call you Ma’am or Sir, but who knows how you identify and Lord knows, I would not want to be ‘impolite’).

Someone who doesn’t know that the Secretary of State, as an original classification authority, does in fact have declassification powers, or that declassification powers have nothing to with the PRA, should probably sit down and shut up about this.

She can only declassify her own stuff. It’s not near as broad as the President’s:

“ The Department of State, to include Hillary Clinton as the Secretary of State, does have Originator Classification Authority. This means she carried the authority to control the level at which material generated by the Department of State is classified, within the boundaries of applicable doctrine. There is some material that must be classified as a matter of course, to include correspondence with Foreign Governments, controlled schedules, and information garnered from classified material.

However, there was information contained within her emails that had been classified by government agencies outside of the Department of State, beyond the scope of her OCA. Among her emails on the 'private server' were satellite imagery of foreign countries, classified by the intelligence agencies. These images are controlled as Top Secret, Special Compartmentalized Information, Talent Keyhole, but were located on her personal email server and mislabeled as unclassified. These items should never have been present on an unclassified, or general use, information system. The Government uses specially developed cyber enclaves to protect this data, segregating it from everything else. In order for these pictures to exist on an unclassified system, someone illegally copied them from a system cleared Top Secret information, crossed the physical air gap to a general use computer, and then emailed them to her. The situation is further complicated by the use of the personal server; if these communications had been made via a Government Information system, there would be a firm management and accounting of the emails. This would have satisfied the requirements of the Federal Records Act. By operating on via a personal server, she bypassed the established mechanisms for information assurance and accounting.”

You’re not talking about the things that were classified at a later date, after they were emailed to her, I hope.

Clinton did not have any classified “documents” in her emails. The retroactive “classification” was a determination that her staff sent her a few emails that referenced classified matters, and they should not have done so (even though some of the “secrets” were public knowledge that had already been reported in the media). No classified documents or sources were in the emails, but there were unclassified emails among staff who all held clearances that mentioned something that was known from classified sources.

That type of inadvertent insider communication has never been prosecuted, and very rarely would even result in a reprimand for the sender.

Hillary Clinton: “I did not email any classified material to anyone on my email.”

James Comey: “Let me tell you what we found.”

-110 emails
-52 email chains
-8 of those chains were top secret
-36 were secret
-8 contained confidential information

Hillary Clinton: “it wasn’t the best choice, I made a mistake.”

James Comey: “This is going to be an unusual statement, in at least a couple of ways, although there IS EVIDENCE, our judgement is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case.”

So if Hilary was guilty, and Trump has exponentially more classified info floating around his golf clubs, then he is exponentially more guilty.
That's what you are saying.

Trump traitors going to traitor.

If Hillary were guilty, then Trump's corrupt AG would have indicted her and prosecuted her. They didn't. What does that mean?

You honestly think that would happen? You poor, sad soul.

[Anonymous]

So here we have it.

The Republican Party wants a kingdom.

So Maga morons what religion will the National religion be when trump is King?

You can spew and spew garbage propaganda that you have been fed by people who know they are going to be charged. The rest of us popcorn’s ready because Trump and 34 Congress people plus Ginni plus Eastman and Flynn are going to jail.

A two bit con man fooled you all, while he cashed in.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I really think many of you are missing the obstruction. He had ample opportunity to work with NARA to return everything. He purposely mislead everyone. It never had to end this way had he returned everything.

Joking aside, they aren't missing the obstruction. They are choosing to willfully ignore it. The truth is that the security powers that be are willing to work with you if you honestly screw up and come to them with a mea culpa. Not only was Trump taking the documents not a screw up, but intentional, he then chose to lie, have others lie on his behalf, and hide them.

People like to point at the Reality Winner case. She's not in jail because she accidentally took a document out of the building that got mixed in her personal stuff. She's in jail because she removed it intentionally.

Reality Winner had no ability to declassify documents. Trump did and no, he doesn’t have to ask permission of anyone to do so.

You people have some weird mythology in your heads about "the President can declassify." There's a process for declassifying documents, even for the President. The process is NOT the President waving his hands and gesturing broadly, saying "I declassify this stuff' or simply willing it to be declassified with his mind. And if the process isn't followed, there is no way of knowing what is or isn't declassified and it would be chaos. If the downgrading and declassification process isn't followed or there is no evidence it was followed then it remains classified.

You are incorrect.

Nope. There is a legal process for declassification. Please provide a link that shows a president can think it or will it, and it becomes so.

Per Constitutional lawyers:

A former president has the legal right to access any and all of the documents created during his presidency, classified or otherwise. The second before a President leaves office, by his very actions alone in taking documents he can be said to have declassified them.

“Therefore, the former president cannot be charged under the Espionage Act of 1917 for this reason and more,” said Levin, who served as chief of state to Attorney General Edwin Meese during the Reagan administration.”

In addition, Trumps’ lawyers had been in active negotiations regarding the documents, starting only a year after Trump left office. Like with Obama, this kind of back-and-forth is the norm and can go on for years. And the National Archives is already in possession of the vast majority of documents created during the Trump administration, and the ones at issue are a very relative few, so yes, he has cooperated. Under Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution, the president is “the executive branch and he’s the commander in chief.” So Trump is not guilty of violating the Espionage Act, which was invoked in the affidavit to obtain a search warrant. In addition, there are no criminal penalties associated with the Presidential Records Act; that has been cited by the FBI.

Now let’s talk Espionage Act and Clinton: Clinton had classified documents on an unsecured email server at her home in Chappaqua, New York/. Clinton wasn’t president, so she didn’t even have the protections presidents do.

“That violates the Espionage Act,” Levin said of failing to properly secure the documents, some highly classified, from foreign adversaries”.

Mark Levin is the source of this take? You may as well quote Stephen Miller or Steve Bannon.

Can you please tell me what disqualifies Levin in your mind? Not educated enough? Not enough experience?

He isn't de facto disqualified, but he is arguing this case through a lens of supporting Trump rather than through a lens of what the law says, and what the case law supports.

DP... Mark Levin is a completely unhinged far right kook in my book. He's an outright racist and xenophobe, he's done crazy things in the realm of slavery-denial by claiming the three-fifths compromise in the Constitution wasn't about slavery or white supremacy. https://www.mediamatters.org/mark-levin/mark-levin-absurdly-claims-three-fifths-compromise-constitution-had-nothing-do-slavery

He repeatedly referred to Obama voters as "islamo-nazis" and claimed Obama and the Supreme Court were conspiring to bring Stalinism to the United States. He routinely screams at any caller to his show who proves him wrong, states facts contrary to his narrative calling them "pukes" or "morons" or "drones," shouting them down and then hanging up on them rather than hearing and debating facts or different, legitimate viewpoints.

Levin is a climate denier of the worst kind, with absolutely idiotic takes on it - https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/8/31/1694892/-Mark-Levin-just-made-possibly-the-most-hilarious-climate-denial-argument-ever

He peddles tons of debunked conspiracy theories, for example he bizarrely claims that Iraq WMDs were actually found, but that George W. Bush and Karl Rove used the White House to cover it up for "political reasons" even though the non-existent WMDs were the basis for the Iraq war. https://www.salon.com/2014/10/21/meet_the_iraq_war_truthers_bush_was_right_on_wmds_but_the_truth_was_covered_up_by_bush/

One could go on and on and on with all of the absolutely wrong and completely unhinged things that Mark Levin has said (or more likely screamed) into his spittle-covered radio microphone over the years.

Not credible. Whatever respectable prior career he had is completely diminished by everything he's done on the radio over the last 20+ years.

That's your opinion. Levin is a constitutional lawyer and scholar.

Any you quote.....Salon?

Sorry but you don't debate constitutional law by screaming "PUKE!" at the opposing counsel and trying to just drown them out with nonsense. Completely unprofessional, and that kind of emotionally stunted behavior is generally not effective beyond 4th grade recess.