The DMV needs a YIMBY revolution

[Anonymous]

Yes, I agree with you that "gentle density" is a dumb term. It's based on the assumption that there is such a thing as "harsh density", which there isn't. The planning folks should stop using the term. Density is a metric, not a pejorative.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At some point you selfish NIMBYs need to get it through your thick skulls that America needs to GROW and believe it or not we can build a school or two if necessary. Your obsession with your property values is obvious.

Why do you have to build new schools where there are millions of square feet of unused office space. Alexandria has an elementary school in an office building; Arlington has a middle and high school ( yeah, I know its a "program" and not a "school') in an office building. Many day cares are going into the retail space municipalities made developers add to office buildings. Why waste money on schools when office buildings are available? Also, the declining population of school age children and more children going to private and parochial schools means fewer schools needed overall Why the mania to add schools?

People leave for private schools because the MCPS have declined. They have declined because there are too many kids and the country seems to made it a priority to court lower income families. Is your big plan to just make the schools so terrible that everyone with the ability to leave, leaves, thereby solving the overcrowding problem?

Seems like the same solution that the YIMBYs propose for everything. Make SFH neighborhoods awful enough that sensible people leave and prices come down. Transportation? Get enough density and remove enough parking that traffic becomes so unmanageable that the bus seems like a good option.

It’s a race to the bottom, and they are definitely winning right now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At some point you selfish NIMBYs need to get it through your thick skulls that America needs to GROW and believe it or not we can build a school or two if necessary. Your obsession with your property values is obvious.

Why do you have to build new schools where there are millions of square feet of unused office space. Alexandria has an elementary school in an office building; Arlington has a middle and high school ( yeah, I know its a "program" and not a "school') in an office building. Many day cares are going into the retail space municipalities made developers add to office buildings. Why waste money on schools when office buildings are available? Also, the declining population of school age children and more children going to private and parochial schools means fewer schools needed overall Why the mania to add schools?

People leave for private schools because the MCPS have declined. They have declined because there are too many kids and the country seems to made it a priority to court lower income families. Is your big plan to just make the schools so terrible that everyone with the ability to leave, leaves, thereby solving the overcrowding problem?

Seems like the same solution that the YIMBYs propose for everything. Make SFH neighborhoods awful enough that sensible people leave and prices come down. Transportation? Get enough density and remove enough parking that traffic becomes so unmanageable that the bus seems like a good option.

It’s a race to the bottom, and they are definitely winning right now.

Private schools have not been increasing seats at the same rate as the population has increased. Even if you have the money, there is no guarantee your kid gets a seat at a top-50 private school in this area. It really is that tough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At some point you selfish NIMBYs need to get it through your thick skulls that America needs to GROW and believe it or not we can build a school or two if necessary. Your obsession with your property values is obvious.

Why do you have to build new schools where there are millions of square feet of unused office space. Alexandria has an elementary school in an office building; Arlington has a middle and high school ( yeah, I know its a "program" and not a "school') in an office building. Many day cares are going into the retail space municipalities made developers add to office buildings. Why waste money on schools when office buildings are available? Also, the declining population of school age children and more children going to private and parochial schools means fewer schools needed overall Why the mania to add schools?

People leave for private schools because the MCPS have declined. They have declined because there are too many kids and the country seems to made it a priority to court lower income families. Is your big plan to just make the schools so terrible that everyone with the ability to leave, leaves, thereby solving the overcrowding problem?

Seems like the same solution that the YIMBYs propose for everything. Make SFH neighborhoods awful enough that sensible people leave and prices come down. Transportation? Get enough density and remove enough parking that traffic becomes so unmanageable that the bus seems like a good option.

It’s a race to the bottom, and they are definitely winning right now.

Private schools have not been increasing seats at the same rate as the population has increased. Even if you have the money, there is no guarantee your kid gets a seat at a top-50 private school in this area. It really is that tough.

Not too long ago, Arlington's one private school was Rivendell -- and it's quasi religious. Now there are private schools popping up in church buildings and office buildings. Not everyone is worried about getting into a "top 50 private school" but getting their kid into an environment where they can learn and not be indoctrinated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At some point you selfish NIMBYs need to get it through your thick skulls that America needs to GROW and believe it or not we can build a school or two if necessary. Your obsession with your property values is obvious.

Then please inform the “thick skulls” running Alexandria of this because they are apparently incapable of building new schools despite having the largest high school and two of the largest middle schools in the state.

But no, you won’t do that. You’ll just pretend that any concerns about your policies are immediately invalid.

+1 I don't mind density. I'm from NYC. If someone wants to buy a close to metro house and knock it down and build a triplex, such is life. But the urban planning that I've seen in Maryland in terms of inadequate planning for increased traffic and school overcrowding is just making it such that they're wrecking quality of life and our kids' educational future.

They don’t care one bit. Likely that they welcome it as they don’t like the very idea of suburbia.

Weird bike riding libertarians in Che Guevara tshirts, rooting for the bus as mass transit? We are doomed.

Of all the silly ideas in this thread, the idea that buses are not mass transit must be the silliest.

Well, at least you admit that it’s just a bus, and not some magical super bus that people are actually going to use. We’ve made some progress.

It’s mass transit in the same way a large enough donkey cart would be, but it don’t think that’s a good system on which base changes in zoning and parking requirements.

Most people would rather have trains than buses to be sure. But most people when considering costs and benefits, and the terrible track record of the Purple Line which has billions in overruns and nothing to show for it a decade later, would rather have a functioning bus rapid transit lane which is quick and still manages to move a lot of commuters. I've seen it in several cities and it works well.

While much of that is true none of that means that we should treat bus stops the same as metro stations in terms of density and targeted development subsidies.

Good news! Nobody is proposing to do this! You can rest easy.

Except you are lying. The thrive plans turn BRT stops into metro stops in terms of density and incentives.

Oh, BRT stations! I thought you were talking about bus stops.

They're still bus stops and nothing more. The weird use of pretend language is the thing that turns people rabidly away from your ideas, gets you labeled as a crazy, and is why people say that you all lie all the tine

Says someone who never takes any bus. Here is an explanation:

A BUS STOP consists of a bus stop sign, on a pole, next to the road. In Montgomery County, there is also a concrete square for people to stand on. If you're lucky, there's a little wall you can sit on, and if you're super lucky, there's a whole bus shelter. There is probably no safe place to cross the street. There might be a sidewalk, or there might not be. There might be a streetlight near by, or it might be dark. If you use a wheelchair, you have to wait for the bus to kneel. When it's raining, passing drivers splash you with nasty street water.

A BRT STATION has a platform, lighting, real-time bus arrival information, a ticket machine, and a shelter. There is a sidewalk. There is a safe place to cross the street. There is level boarding, or a ramp. There are, or are supposed to be, bus-only lanes, so that the bus drivers don't have to merge in and out of car traffic.

There! Now, next time this comes up, you don't have to sound ignorant or like you don't know what you're talking about.

..so it’s a bus stop?

What in the world are you rambling about? A bus stops there to pick you up..a bus stop. It’s not some magical means of transportation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At some point you selfish NIMBYs need to get it through your thick skulls that America needs to GROW and believe it or not we can build a school or two if necessary. Your obsession with your property values is obvious.

Then please inform the “thick skulls” running Alexandria of this because they are apparently incapable of building new schools despite having the largest high school and two of the largest middle schools in the state.

But no, you won’t do that. You’ll just pretend that any concerns about your policies are immediately invalid.

+1 I don't mind density. I'm from NYC. If someone wants to buy a close to metro house and knock it down and build a triplex, such is life. But the urban planning that I've seen in Maryland in terms of inadequate planning for increased traffic and school overcrowding is just making it such that they're wrecking quality of life and our kids' educational future.

They don’t care one bit. Likely that they welcome it as they don’t like the very idea of suburbia.

Weird bike riding libertarians in Che Guevara tshirts, rooting for the bus as mass transit? We are doomed.

Of all the silly ideas in this thread, the idea that buses are not mass transit must be the silliest.

Well, at least you admit that it’s just a bus, and not some magical super bus that people are actually going to use. We’ve made some progress.

It’s mass transit in the same way a large enough donkey cart would be, but it don’t think that’s a good system on which base changes in zoning and parking requirements.

Most people would rather have trains than buses to be sure. But most people when considering costs and benefits, and the terrible track record of the Purple Line which has billions in overruns and nothing to show for it a decade later, would rather have a functioning bus rapid transit lane which is quick and still manages to move a lot of commuters. I've seen it in several cities and it works well.

While much of that is true none of that means that we should treat bus stops the same as metro stations in terms of density and targeted development subsidies.

Good news! Nobody is proposing to do this! You can rest easy.

Except you are lying. The thrive plans turn BRT stops into metro stops in terms of density and incentives.

Oh, BRT stations! I thought you were talking about bus stops.

They're still bus stops and nothing more. The weird use of pretend language is the thing that turns people rabidly away from your ideas, gets you labeled as a crazy, and is why people say that you all lie all the tine

Says someone who never takes any bus. Here is an explanation:

A BUS STOP consists of a bus stop sign, on a pole, next to the road. In Montgomery County, there is also a concrete square for people to stand on. If you're lucky, there's a little wall you can sit on, and if you're super lucky, there's a whole bus shelter. There is probably no safe place to cross the street. There might be a sidewalk, or there might not be. There might be a streetlight near by, or it might be dark. If you use a wheelchair, you have to wait for the bus to kneel. When it's raining, passing drivers splash you with nasty street water.

A BRT STATION has a platform, lighting, real-time bus arrival information, a ticket machine, and a shelter. There is a sidewalk. There is a safe place to cross the street. There is level boarding, or a ramp. There are, or are supposed to be, bus-only lanes, so that the bus drivers don't have to merge in and out of car traffic.

There! Now, next time this comes up, you don't have to sound ignorant or like you don't know what you're talking about.

Except for the dedicated lanes, this is what every bus stop should be, so you’re just describing bus stops. More density near bus stops along dedicated lanes makes sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At some point you selfish NIMBYs need to get it through your thick skulls that America needs to GROW and believe it or not we can build a school or two if necessary. Your obsession with your property values is obvious.

Then please inform the “thick skulls” running Alexandria of this because they are apparently incapable of building new schools despite having the largest high school and two of the largest middle schools in the state.

But no, you won’t do that. You’ll just pretend that any concerns about your policies are immediately invalid.

+1 I don't mind density. I'm from NYC. If someone wants to buy a close to metro house and knock it down and build a triplex, such is life. But the urban planning that I've seen in Maryland in terms of inadequate planning for increased traffic and school overcrowding is just making it such that they're wrecking quality of life and our kids' educational future.

They don’t care one bit. Likely that they welcome it as they don’t like the very idea of suburbia.

Weird bike riding libertarians in Che Guevara tshirts, rooting for the bus as mass transit? We are doomed.

Of all the silly ideas in this thread, the idea that buses are not mass transit must be the silliest.

Well, at least you admit that it’s just a bus, and not some magical super bus that people are actually going to use. We’ve made some progress.

It’s mass transit in the same way a large enough donkey cart would be, but it don’t think that’s a good system on which base changes in zoning and parking requirements.

Most people would rather have trains than buses to be sure. But most people when considering costs and benefits, and the terrible track record of the Purple Line which has billions in overruns and nothing to show for it a decade later, would rather have a functioning bus rapid transit lane which is quick and still manages to move a lot of commuters. I've seen it in several cities and it works well.

While much of that is true none of that means that we should treat bus stops the same as metro stations in terms of density and targeted development subsidies.

Good news! Nobody is proposing to do this! You can rest easy.

Except you are lying. The thrive plans turn BRT stops into metro stops in terms of density and incentives.

Oh, BRT stations! I thought you were talking about bus stops.

They're still bus stops and nothing more. The weird use of pretend language is the thing that turns people rabidly away from your ideas, gets you labeled as a crazy, and is why people say that you all lie all the tine

Says someone who never takes any bus. Here is an explanation:

A BUS STOP consists of a bus stop sign, on a pole, next to the road. In Montgomery County, there is also a concrete square for people to stand on. If you're lucky, there's a little wall you can sit on, and if you're super lucky, there's a whole bus shelter. There is probably no safe place to cross the street. There might be a sidewalk, or there might not be. There might be a streetlight near by, or it might be dark. If you use a wheelchair, you have to wait for the bus to kneel. When it's raining, passing drivers splash you with nasty street water.

A BRT STATION has a platform, lighting, real-time bus arrival information, a ticket machine, and a shelter. There is a sidewalk. There is a safe place to cross the street. There is level boarding, or a ramp. There are, or are supposed to be, bus-only lanes, so that the bus drivers don't have to merge in and out of car traffic.

There! Now, next time this comes up, you don't have to sound ignorant or like you don't know what you're talking about.

Except for the dedicated lanes, this is what every bus stop should be, so you’re just describing bus stops. More density near bus stops along dedicated lanes makes sense.

How much density, and how near a bus stop? Issuing limited permits as a pilot program like they’ve done elsewhere?
Duplexes directly along the route and maybe quads within a couple hundred feet of a BRT station?

Slapping down bus stops as an excuse to build county-wide density is a terrible idea, but I think that people would look more favorably towards realistic proposals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I agree with you that "gentle density" is a dumb term. It's based on the assumption that there is such a thing as "harsh density", which there isn't. The planning folks should stop using the term. Density is a metric, not a pejorative.

I look forward to the day that the planning board and the council start providing these density metrics, proposed, projected, and target, with expected locations. Maybe then they can talk about parking minimums, zoning, schools, and transportation.

Until then, it’s plain to see that they are just winging it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At some point you selfish NIMBYs need to get it through your thick skulls that America needs to GROW and believe it or not we can build a school or two if necessary. Your obsession with your property values is obvious.

Then please inform the “thick skulls” running Alexandria of this because they are apparently incapable of building new schools despite having the largest high school and two of the largest middle schools in the state.

But no, you won’t do that. You’ll just pretend that any concerns about your policies are immediately invalid.

+1 I don't mind density. I'm from NYC. If someone wants to buy a close to metro house and knock it down and build a triplex, such is life. But the urban planning that I've seen in Maryland in terms of inadequate planning for increased traffic and school overcrowding is just making it such that they're wrecking quality of life and our kids' educational future.

They don’t care one bit. Likely that they welcome it as they don’t like the very idea of suburbia.

Weird bike riding libertarians in Che Guevara tshirts, rooting for the bus as mass transit? We are doomed.

Of all the silly ideas in this thread, the idea that buses are not mass transit must be the silliest.

Well, at least you admit that it’s just a bus, and not some magical super bus that people are actually going to use. We’ve made some progress.

It’s mass transit in the same way a large enough donkey cart would be, but it don’t think that’s a good system on which base changes in zoning and parking requirements.

Most people would rather have trains than buses to be sure. But most people when considering costs and benefits, and the terrible track record of the Purple Line which has billions in overruns and nothing to show for it a decade later, would rather have a functioning bus rapid transit lane which is quick and still manages to move a lot of commuters. I've seen it in several cities and it works well.

While much of that is true none of that means that we should treat bus stops the same as metro stations in terms of density and targeted development subsidies.

Good news! Nobody is proposing to do this! You can rest easy.

Except you are lying. The thrive plans turn BRT stops into metro stops in terms of density and incentives.

Oh, BRT stations! I thought you were talking about bus stops.

They're still bus stops and nothing more. The weird use of pretend language is the thing that turns people rabidly away from your ideas, gets you labeled as a crazy, and is why people say that you all lie all the tine

Says someone who never takes any bus. Here is an explanation:

A BUS STOP consists of a bus stop sign, on a pole, next to the road. In Montgomery County, there is also a concrete square for people to stand on. If you're lucky, there's a little wall you can sit on, and if you're super lucky, there's a whole bus shelter. There is probably no safe place to cross the street. There might be a sidewalk, or there might not be. There might be a streetlight near by, or it might be dark. If you use a wheelchair, you have to wait for the bus to kneel. When it's raining, passing drivers splash you with nasty street water.

A BRT STATION has a platform, lighting, real-time bus arrival information, a ticket machine, and a shelter. There is a sidewalk. There is a safe place to cross the street. There is level boarding, or a ramp. There are, or are supposed to be, bus-only lanes, so that the bus drivers don't have to merge in and out of car traffic.

There! Now, next time this comes up, you don't have to sound ignorant or like you don't know what you're talking about.

..so it’s a bus stop?

What in the world are you rambling about? A bus stops there to pick you up..a bus stop. It’s not some magical means of transportation.

A subway stops there to pick you up...a subway stop. It's not some magical means of transportation.
A train stops there to pick you up...a train stop. It's not some magical means of transportation.
An airplane stops there to pick you up...an airplane stop. It's not some magical means of transportation.
A ferry stops there to pick you up...a ferry stop. It's not some magical means of transportation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At some point you selfish NIMBYs need to get it through your thick skulls that America needs to GROW and believe it or not we can build a school or two if necessary. Your obsession with your property values is obvious.

Then please inform the “thick skulls” running Alexandria of this because they are apparently incapable of building new schools despite having the largest high school and two of the largest middle schools in the state.

But no, you won’t do that. You’ll just pretend that any concerns about your policies are immediately invalid.

+1 I don't mind density. I'm from NYC. If someone wants to buy a close to metro house and knock it down and build a triplex, such is life. But the urban planning that I've seen in Maryland in terms of inadequate planning for increased traffic and school overcrowding is just making it such that they're wrecking quality of life and our kids' educational future.

They don’t care one bit. Likely that they welcome it as they don’t like the very idea of suburbia.

Weird bike riding libertarians in Che Guevara tshirts, rooting for the bus as mass transit? We are doomed.

Of all the silly ideas in this thread, the idea that buses are not mass transit must be the silliest.

Well, at least you admit that it’s just a bus, and not some magical super bus that people are actually going to use. We’ve made some progress.

It’s mass transit in the same way a large enough donkey cart would be, but it don’t think that’s a good system on which base changes in zoning and parking requirements.

Most people would rather have trains than buses to be sure. But most people when considering costs and benefits, and the terrible track record of the Purple Line which has billions in overruns and nothing to show for it a decade later, would rather have a functioning bus rapid transit lane which is quick and still manages to move a lot of commuters. I've seen it in several cities and it works well.

While much of that is true none of that means that we should treat bus stops the same as metro stations in terms of density and targeted development subsidies.

Good news! Nobody is proposing to do this! You can rest easy.

Except you are lying. The thrive plans turn BRT stops into metro stops in terms of density and incentives.

Oh, BRT stations! I thought you were talking about bus stops.

They're still bus stops and nothing more. The weird use of pretend language is the thing that turns people rabidly away from your ideas, gets you labeled as a crazy, and is why people say that you all lie all the tine

Says someone who never takes any bus. Here is an explanation:

A BUS STOP consists of a bus stop sign, on a pole, next to the road. In Montgomery County, there is also a concrete square for people to stand on. If you're lucky, there's a little wall you can sit on, and if you're super lucky, there's a whole bus shelter. There is probably no safe place to cross the street. There might be a sidewalk, or there might not be. There might be a streetlight near by, or it might be dark. If you use a wheelchair, you have to wait for the bus to kneel. When it's raining, passing drivers splash you with nasty street water.

A BRT STATION has a platform, lighting, real-time bus arrival information, a ticket machine, and a shelter. There is a sidewalk. There is a safe place to cross the street. There is level boarding, or a ramp. There are, or are supposed to be, bus-only lanes, so that the bus drivers don't have to merge in and out of car traffic.

There! Now, next time this comes up, you don't have to sound ignorant or like you don't know what you're talking about.

Except for the dedicated lanes, this is what every bus stop should be, so you’re just describing bus stops. More density near bus stops along dedicated lanes makes sense.

It might be what every bus stop should be, but it is unfortunately not what every bus stop is. So it is actually not a description of a bus stop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At some point you selfish NIMBYs need to get it through your thick skulls that America needs to GROW and believe it or not we can build a school or two if necessary. Your obsession with your property values is obvious.

Then please inform the “thick skulls” running Alexandria of this because they are apparently incapable of building new schools despite having the largest high school and two of the largest middle schools in the state.

But no, you won’t do that. You’ll just pretend that any concerns about your policies are immediately invalid.

+1 I don't mind density. I'm from NYC. If someone wants to buy a close to metro house and knock it down and build a triplex, such is life. But the urban planning that I've seen in Maryland in terms of inadequate planning for increased traffic and school overcrowding is just making it such that they're wrecking quality of life and our kids' educational future.

They don’t care one bit. Likely that they welcome it as they don’t like the very idea of suburbia.

Weird bike riding libertarians in Che Guevara tshirts, rooting for the bus as mass transit? We are doomed.

Of all the silly ideas in this thread, the idea that buses are not mass transit must be the silliest.

Well, at least you admit that it’s just a bus, and not some magical super bus that people are actually going to use. We’ve made some progress.

It’s mass transit in the same way a large enough donkey cart would be, but it don’t think that’s a good system on which base changes in zoning and parking requirements.

Most people would rather have trains than buses to be sure. But most people when considering costs and benefits, and the terrible track record of the Purple Line which has billions in overruns and nothing to show for it a decade later, would rather have a functioning bus rapid transit lane which is quick and still manages to move a lot of commuters. I've seen it in several cities and it works well.

While much of that is true none of that means that we should treat bus stops the same as metro stations in terms of density and targeted development subsidies.

Good news! Nobody is proposing to do this! You can rest easy.

Except you are lying. The thrive plans turn BRT stops into metro stops in terms of density and incentives.

Oh, BRT stations! I thought you were talking about bus stops.

They're still bus stops and nothing more. The weird use of pretend language is the thing that turns people rabidly away from your ideas, gets you labeled as a crazy, and is why people say that you all lie all the tine

Says someone who never takes any bus. Here is an explanation:

A BUS STOP consists of a bus stop sign, on a pole, next to the road. In Montgomery County, there is also a concrete square for people to stand on. If you're lucky, there's a little wall you can sit on, and if you're super lucky, there's a whole bus shelter. There is probably no safe place to cross the street. There might be a sidewalk, or there might not be. There might be a streetlight near by, or it might be dark. If you use a wheelchair, you have to wait for the bus to kneel. When it's raining, passing drivers splash you with nasty street water.

A BRT STATION has a platform, lighting, real-time bus arrival information, a ticket machine, and a shelter. There is a sidewalk. There is a safe place to cross the street. There is level boarding, or a ramp. There are, or are supposed to be, bus-only lanes, so that the bus drivers don't have to merge in and out of car traffic.

There! Now, next time this comes up, you don't have to sound ignorant or like you don't know what you're talking about.

Except for the dedicated lanes, this is what every bus stop should be, so you’re just describing bus stops. More density near bus stops along dedicated lanes makes sense.

How much density, and how near a bus stop? Issuing limited permits as a pilot program like they’ve done elsewhere?
Duplexes directly along the route and maybe quads within a couple hundred feet of a BRT station?

Slapping down bus stops as an excuse to build county-wide density is a terrible idea, but I think that people would look more favorably towards realistic proposals.

This was tried in Alexandria along Richmond highway (highway 1) and it has failed miserably. The mayor loves to brag about his dedicated bus lane and shiny BRT stations, which consume 2-3 lanes. Lots of mid-rise condos/apartments and some townhomes have been approved and built in the last several years. And yet the bus route is one of the least used in the entire DASH bus system, only moving about 250 people a day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At some point you selfish NIMBYs need to get it through your thick skulls that America needs to GROW and believe it or not we can build a school or two if necessary. Your obsession with your property values is obvious.

Then please inform the “thick skulls” running Alexandria of this because they are apparently incapable of building new schools despite having the largest high school and two of the largest middle schools in the state.

But no, you won’t do that. You’ll just pretend that any concerns about your policies are immediately invalid.

+1 I don't mind density. I'm from NYC. If someone wants to buy a close to metro house and knock it down and build a triplex, such is life. But the urban planning that I've seen in Maryland in terms of inadequate planning for increased traffic and school overcrowding is just making it such that they're wrecking quality of life and our kids' educational future.

They don’t care one bit. Likely that they welcome it as they don’t like the very idea of suburbia.

Weird bike riding libertarians in Che Guevara tshirts, rooting for the bus as mass transit? We are doomed.

Of all the silly ideas in this thread, the idea that buses are not mass transit must be the silliest.

Well, at least you admit that it’s just a bus, and not some magical super bus that people are actually going to use. We’ve made some progress.

It’s mass transit in the same way a large enough donkey cart would be, but it don’t think that’s a good system on which base changes in zoning and parking requirements.

Most people would rather have trains than buses to be sure. But most people when considering costs and benefits, and the terrible track record of the Purple Line which has billions in overruns and nothing to show for it a decade later, would rather have a functioning bus rapid transit lane which is quick and still manages to move a lot of commuters. I've seen it in several cities and it works well.

While much of that is true none of that means that we should treat bus stops the same as metro stations in terms of density and targeted development subsidies.

Good news! Nobody is proposing to do this! You can rest easy.

Except you are lying. The thrive plans turn BRT stops into metro stops in terms of density and incentives.

Oh, BRT stations! I thought you were talking about bus stops.

They're still bus stops and nothing more. The weird use of pretend language is the thing that turns people rabidly away from your ideas, gets you labeled as a crazy, and is why people say that you all lie all the tine

Says someone who never takes any bus. Here is an explanation:

A BUS STOP consists of a bus stop sign, on a pole, next to the road. In Montgomery County, there is also a concrete square for people to stand on. If you're lucky, there's a little wall you can sit on, and if you're super lucky, there's a whole bus shelter. There is probably no safe place to cross the street. There might be a sidewalk, or there might not be. There might be a streetlight near by, or it might be dark. If you use a wheelchair, you have to wait for the bus to kneel. When it's raining, passing drivers splash you with nasty street water.

A BRT STATION has a platform, lighting, real-time bus arrival information, a ticket machine, and a shelter. There is a sidewalk. There is a safe place to cross the street. There is level boarding, or a ramp. There are, or are supposed to be, bus-only lanes, so that the bus drivers don't have to merge in and out of car traffic.

There! Now, next time this comes up, you don't have to sound ignorant or like you don't know what you're talking about.

Except for the dedicated lanes, this is what every bus stop should be, so you’re just describing bus stops. More density near bus stops along dedicated lanes makes sense.

How much density, and how near a bus stop? Issuing limited permits as a pilot program like they’ve done elsewhere?
Duplexes directly along the route and maybe quads within a couple hundred feet of a BRT station?

Slapping down bus stops as an excuse to build county-wide density is a terrible idea, but I think that people would look more favorably towards realistic proposals.

This was tried in Alexandria along Richmond highway (highway 1) and it has failed miserably. The mayor loves to brag about his dedicated bus lane and shiny BRT stations, which consume 2-3 lanes. Lots of mid-rise condos/apartments and some townhomes have been approved and built in the last several years. And yet the bus route is one of the least used in the entire DASH bus system, only moving about 250 people a day.

Oh, and I should add, the bus is free. So it’s not like people are skipping it due to the cost.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At some point you selfish NIMBYs need to get it through your thick skulls that America needs to GROW and believe it or not we can build a school or two if necessary. Your obsession with your property values is obvious.

Then please inform the “thick skulls” running Alexandria of this because they are apparently incapable of building new schools despite having the largest high school and two of the largest middle schools in the state.

But no, you won’t do that. You’ll just pretend that any concerns about your policies are immediately invalid.

+1 I don't mind density. I'm from NYC. If someone wants to buy a close to metro house and knock it down and build a triplex, such is life. But the urban planning that I've seen in Maryland in terms of inadequate planning for increased traffic and school overcrowding is just making it such that they're wrecking quality of life and our kids' educational future.

They don’t care one bit. Likely that they welcome it as they don’t like the very idea of suburbia.

Weird bike riding libertarians in Che Guevara tshirts, rooting for the bus as mass transit? We are doomed.

Of all the silly ideas in this thread, the idea that buses are not mass transit must be the silliest.

Well, at least you admit that it’s just a bus, and not some magical super bus that people are actually going to use. We’ve made some progress.

It’s mass transit in the same way a large enough donkey cart would be, but it don’t think that’s a good system on which base changes in zoning and parking requirements.

Most people would rather have trains than buses to be sure. But most people when considering costs and benefits, and the terrible track record of the Purple Line which has billions in overruns and nothing to show for it a decade later, would rather have a functioning bus rapid transit lane which is quick and still manages to move a lot of commuters. I've seen it in several cities and it works well.

While much of that is true none of that means that we should treat bus stops the same as metro stations in terms of density and targeted development subsidies.

Good news! Nobody is proposing to do this! You can rest easy.

Except you are lying. The thrive plans turn BRT stops into metro stops in terms of density and incentives.

Oh, BRT stations! I thought you were talking about bus stops.

They're still bus stops and nothing more. The weird use of pretend language is the thing that turns people rabidly away from your ideas, gets you labeled as a crazy, and is why people say that you all lie all the tine

Says someone who never takes any bus. Here is an explanation:

A BUS STOP consists of a bus stop sign, on a pole, next to the road. In Montgomery County, there is also a concrete square for people to stand on. If you're lucky, there's a little wall you can sit on, and if you're super lucky, there's a whole bus shelter. There is probably no safe place to cross the street. There might be a sidewalk, or there might not be. There might be a streetlight near by, or it might be dark. If you use a wheelchair, you have to wait for the bus to kneel. When it's raining, passing drivers splash you with nasty street water.

A BRT STATION has a platform, lighting, real-time bus arrival information, a ticket machine, and a shelter. There is a sidewalk. There is a safe place to cross the street. There is level boarding, or a ramp. There are, or are supposed to be, bus-only lanes, so that the bus drivers don't have to merge in and out of car traffic.

There! Now, next time this comes up, you don't have to sound ignorant or like you don't know what you're talking about.

Except for the dedicated lanes, this is what every bus stop should be, so you’re just describing bus stops. More density near bus stops along dedicated lanes makes sense.

How much density, and how near a bus stop? Issuing limited permits as a pilot program like they’ve done elsewhere?
Duplexes directly along the route and maybe quads within a couple hundred feet of a BRT station?

Slapping down bus stops as an excuse to build county-wide density is a terrible idea, but I think that people would look more favorably towards realistic proposals.

This was tried in Alexandria along Richmond highway (highway 1) and it has failed miserably. The mayor loves to brag about his dedicated bus lane and shiny BRT stations, which consume 2-3 lanes. Lots of mid-rise condos/apartments and some townhomes have been approved and built in the last several years. And yet the bus route is one of the least used in the entire DASH bus system, only moving about 250 people a day.

Very few people want this nonsense, it’s just that the YImBYs are loud.

I invite everyone to follow the “Montgomery County Md., Planning Department Page” on Facebook to see what I mean.

Take a look the comments for the post from two days ago, “I love my single family neighborhood…”

It’s the same 3-4 YImBY cult members responding to every post, all from the MOCO YIMBY group with their propaganda about housing or Thetans or whatever delusions they are having. The Russians could learn a a thing or two from the YImBYs when it comes to disinformation campaigns.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At some point you selfish NIMBYs need to get it through your thick skulls that America needs to GROW and believe it or not we can build a school or two if necessary. Your obsession with your property values is obvious.

Then please inform the “thick skulls” running Alexandria of this because they are apparently incapable of building new schools despite having the largest high school and two of the largest middle schools in the state.

But no, you won’t do that. You’ll just pretend that any concerns about your policies are immediately invalid.

+1 I don't mind density. I'm from NYC. If someone wants to buy a close to metro house and knock it down and build a triplex, such is life. But the urban planning that I've seen in Maryland in terms of inadequate planning for increased traffic and school overcrowding is just making it such that they're wrecking quality of life and our kids' educational future.

They don’t care one bit. Likely that they welcome it as they don’t like the very idea of suburbia.

Weird bike riding libertarians in Che Guevara tshirts, rooting for the bus as mass transit? We are doomed.

Of all the silly ideas in this thread, the idea that buses are not mass transit must be the silliest.

Well, at least you admit that it’s just a bus, and not some magical super bus that people are actually going to use. We’ve made some progress.

It’s mass transit in the same way a large enough donkey cart would be, but it don’t think that’s a good system on which base changes in zoning and parking requirements.

Most people would rather have trains than buses to be sure. But most people when considering costs and benefits, and the terrible track record of the Purple Line which has billions in overruns and nothing to show for it a decade later, would rather have a functioning bus rapid transit lane which is quick and still manages to move a lot of commuters. I've seen it in several cities and it works well.

While much of that is true none of that means that we should treat bus stops the same as metro stations in terms of density and targeted development subsidies.

Good news! Nobody is proposing to do this! You can rest easy.

Except you are lying. The thrive plans turn BRT stops into metro stops in terms of density and incentives.

Oh, BRT stations! I thought you were talking about bus stops.

They're still bus stops and nothing more. The weird use of pretend language is the thing that turns people rabidly away from your ideas, gets you labeled as a crazy, and is why people say that you all lie all the tine

Says someone who never takes any bus. Here is an explanation:

A BUS STOP consists of a bus stop sign, on a pole, next to the road. In Montgomery County, there is also a concrete square for people to stand on. If you're lucky, there's a little wall you can sit on, and if you're super lucky, there's a whole bus shelter. There is probably no safe place to cross the street. There might be a sidewalk, or there might not be. There might be a streetlight near by, or it might be dark. If you use a wheelchair, you have to wait for the bus to kneel. When it's raining, passing drivers splash you with nasty street water.

A BRT STATION has a platform, lighting, real-time bus arrival information, a ticket machine, and a shelter. There is a sidewalk. There is a safe place to cross the street. There is level boarding, or a ramp. There are, or are supposed to be, bus-only lanes, so that the bus drivers don't have to merge in and out of car traffic.

There! Now, next time this comes up, you don't have to sound ignorant or like you don't know what you're talking about.

Except for the dedicated lanes, this is what every bus stop should be, so you’re just describing bus stops. More density near bus stops along dedicated lanes makes sense.

It might be what every bus stop should be, but it is unfortunately not what every bus stop is. So it is actually not a description of a bus stop.

It is still a bus stop. Just because it looks superficially better that doesn't change its inherent nature.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At some point you selfish NIMBYs need to get it through your thick skulls that America needs to GROW and believe it or not we can build a school or two if necessary. Your obsession with your property values is obvious.

Then please inform the “thick skulls” running Alexandria of this because they are apparently incapable of building new schools despite having the largest high school and two of the largest middle schools in the state.

But no, you won’t do that. You’ll just pretend that any concerns about your policies are immediately invalid.

+1 I don't mind density. I'm from NYC. If someone wants to buy a close to metro house and knock it down and build a triplex, such is life. But the urban planning that I've seen in Maryland in terms of inadequate planning for increased traffic and school overcrowding is just making it such that they're wrecking quality of life and our kids' educational future.

They don’t care one bit. Likely that they welcome it as they don’t like the very idea of suburbia.

Weird bike riding libertarians in Che Guevara tshirts, rooting for the bus as mass transit? We are doomed.

Of all the silly ideas in this thread, the idea that buses are not mass transit must be the silliest.

Well, at least you admit that it’s just a bus, and not some magical super bus that people are actually going to use. We’ve made some progress.

It’s mass transit in the same way a large enough donkey cart would be, but it don’t think that’s a good system on which base changes in zoning and parking requirements.

Most people would rather have trains than buses to be sure. But most people when considering costs and benefits, and the terrible track record of the Purple Line which has billions in overruns and nothing to show for it a decade later, would rather have a functioning bus rapid transit lane which is quick and still manages to move a lot of commuters. I've seen it in several cities and it works well.

While much of that is true none of that means that we should treat bus stops the same as metro stations in terms of density and targeted development subsidies.

Good news! Nobody is proposing to do this! You can rest easy.

Except you are lying. The thrive plans turn BRT stops into metro stops in terms of density and incentives.

Oh, BRT stations! I thought you were talking about bus stops.

They're still bus stops and nothing more. The weird use of pretend language is the thing that turns people rabidly away from your ideas, gets you labeled as a crazy, and is why people say that you all lie all the tine

Says someone who never takes any bus. Here is an explanation:

A BUS STOP consists of a bus stop sign, on a pole, next to the road. In Montgomery County, there is also a concrete square for people to stand on. If you're lucky, there's a little wall you can sit on, and if you're super lucky, there's a whole bus shelter. There is probably no safe place to cross the street. There might be a sidewalk, or there might not be. There might be a streetlight near by, or it might be dark. If you use a wheelchair, you have to wait for the bus to kneel. When it's raining, passing drivers splash you with nasty street water.

A BRT STATION has a platform, lighting, real-time bus arrival information, a ticket machine, and a shelter. There is a sidewalk. There is a safe place to cross the street. There is level boarding, or a ramp. There are, or are supposed to be, bus-only lanes, so that the bus drivers don't have to merge in and out of car traffic.

There! Now, next time this comes up, you don't have to sound ignorant or like you don't know what you're talking about.

Except for the dedicated lanes, this is what every bus stop should be, so you’re just describing bus stops. More density near bus stops along dedicated lanes makes sense.

It might be what every bus stop should be, but it is unfortunately not what every bus stop is. So it is actually not a description of a bus stop.

It is still a bus stop. Just because it looks superficially better that doesn't change its inherent nature.

Ok, so it's not that you're ignorant, it's that you're using "bus stop" as a pejorative, on purpose.