DMV talent production?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And to add…we are the size of Europe. We have enough kids playing. Our infrastructure sucks. It’s a broken system. Period

The infrastructure isn’t there because the interest isn’t there. Soccer is not in the US culture. Sunday NFL games is a generations old tradition involving entire families. Friday night high school football games are an event for the community. The band plays at halftime. Ever been to a high school soccer game? The only ones there are the parents of the players. HS Basketball games are packed. You can’t just force interest to happen for the masses. Infrastructure won’t happen until the interest is there.

You could also say the infrastructure for basketball “isn’t there” in Europe and elsewhere compared to the US, yet there are elite players all over the NBA. 4 of the top 6 players in the NBA MVP voting grew up overseas (Jokic, Embiid, Giannis, Doncic).

Yes, and we have a handful of US soccer players that play in Europe. A few exceptions does not change the rule. Even with a few standouts like Jokic and Doncic, it's still a very small percentage of the overall NBA. And I don't think anyone would credit the infrastructure in Slovenia for Doncic's success, who is a unicorn and actually played for Real Madrid's youth basketball academy in Spain before coming to the US. Basketball popularity in Europe is also a couple decades ahead of soccer popularity in the US. I hope soccer continues to grow in the US to the point where we are sending more players to Europe like European players are now coming to play basketball in the US

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you look at the percentage of the current MNT that got there by escaping to Europe before DA could run their career it's not so surprising that there aren't many DMV players making it. When you add in that DCU ran the least successful of the MLS DA programs it's even less surprising. For years the region's top talent went to DCU in their early teens to stall their development. Add to that the entire DA system was set up to prevent competition from smaller clubs it's not surprising that mediocrity was the outcome. MLS next promises to be more of the same. Until we get a new federation with a mission to develop soccer instead of fatten wallets we will be stuck with the same and the main path for future national team players will be to hold a European passport.

It's all crap. Growing up an American male in the United States is the biggest impediment to being a soccer superstar.

We are a family that has lived in both Europe and the US and what has always astounded me is how much European coaches LOVED my older son. They would talk about his great knowledge, knew exactly when to pass vs when to dribble, where to move, creative, etc. When we came back to the States, he's never been able to crack a top team---but when there is a European camp or ID session--he is asked to play up age groups and when they select a single kid for a US all-star team he is selected over many top kids in the area.

My 2nd born, who is good--but not older one's level is loved by US coaches.

The same type of player as my older one I will see and watch them also get looked over. His coach this season just wanted hard long balls and players that plowed into people and this was a Club that touts possession style. It was incredibly frustrating for him as a player and with a Coach who had zero concept of field movement.

For US soccer coaches, I still don’t know if it’s the lack of soccer understanding or it’s easier to win with big/fast players that just kick it long. I watch a lot do ENCL girls games, and most top teams have very big/fast forwards but lack technical skills and touch. But they win.

It's both.

My husband told me to go sit behind the Coach at my kid's last game. We are a family that has been in soccer at high levels in this area and abroad since the 70s.

OMG. I couldn't believe the crap that was coming out of this guy's mouth. ZERO knowledge at all. My kid would come home complaining about this guy's practices as completely useless and say some of the stuff he did...it was true.

He was announced as the same Coach next year at the last possible minute and my kid is choosing not to play for him next year...even if it means be without a team at the moment. WASTE OF TIME. They players got worse over the course of the year. The ones he inherited knew what they were doing and were top of the table in the Fall, fell down to mid-tier and lost almost all games in April/May.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And to add…we are the size of Europe. We have enough kids playing. Our infrastructure sucks. It’s a broken system. Period

The infrastructure isn’t there because the interest isn’t there. Soccer is not in the US culture. Sunday NFL games is a generations old tradition involving entire families. Friday night high school football games are an event for the community. The band plays at halftime. Ever been to a high school soccer game? The only ones there are the parents of the players. HS Basketball games are packed. You can’t just force interest to happen for the masses. Infrastructure won’t happen until the interest is there.

You could also say the infrastructure for basketball “isn’t there” in Europe and elsewhere compared to the US, yet there are elite players all over the NBA. 4 of the top 6 players in the NBA MVP voting grew up overseas (Jokic, Embiid, Giannis, Doncic).

Yes, and we have a handful of US soccer players that play in Europe. A few exceptions does not change the rule. Even with a few standouts like Jokic and Doncic, it's still a very small percentage of the overall NBA. And I don't think anyone would credit the infrastructure in Slovenia for Doncic's success, who is a unicorn and actually played for Real Madrid's youth basketball academy in Spain before coming to the US. Basketball popularity in Europe is also a couple decades ahead of soccer popularity in the US. I hope soccer continues to grow in the US to the point where we are sending more players to Europe like European players are now coming to play basketball in the US

The NBA had 107 international players on opening day, that is basically 25% of the league...that's not a small percentage. We're not disagreeing on the 'infrastructure' point. My point is that you don't need a nation of blood-thirsty soccer fans and a plethora of training options in order to produce pros, whether its in the US with soccer or Serbia or Slovenia for basketball.

Basketball, in this country, has also become all about travel, money, AAU, etc. The inner city playgrounds aren't where most US born basketball players are cutting their teeth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you look at the percentage of the current MNT that got there by escaping to Europe before DA could run their career it's not so surprising that there aren't many DMV players making it. When you add in that DCU ran the least successful of the MLS DA programs it's even less surprising. For years the region's top talent went to DCU in their early teens to stall their development. Add to that the entire DA system was set up to prevent competition from smaller clubs it's not surprising that mediocrity was the outcome. MLS next promises to be more of the same. Until we get a new federation with a mission to develop soccer instead of fatten wallets we will be stuck with the same and the main path for future national team players will be to hold a European passport.

It's all crap. Growing up an American male in the United States is the biggest impediment to being a soccer superstar.

We are a family that has lived in both Europe and the US and what has always astounded me is how much European coaches LOVED my older son. They would talk about his great knowledge, knew exactly when to pass vs when to dribble, where to move, creative, etc. When we came back to the States, he's never been able to crack a top team---but when there is a European camp or ID session--he is asked to play up age groups and when they select a single kid for a US all-star team he is selected over many top kids in the area.

My 2nd born, who is good--but not older one's level is loved by US coaches.

The same type of player as my older one I will see and watch them also get looked over. His coach this season just wanted hard long balls and players that plowed into people and this was a Club that touts possession style. It was incredibly frustrating for him as a player and with a Coach who had zero concept of field movement.

For US soccer coaches, I still don’t know if it’s the lack of soccer understanding or it’s easier to win with big/fast players that just kick it long. I watch a lot do ENCL girls games, and most top teams have very big/fast forwards but lack technical skills and touch. But they win.

It's both.

My husband told me to go sit behind the Coach at my kid's last game. We are a family that has been in soccer at high levels in this area and abroad since the 70s.

OMG. I couldn't believe the crap that was coming out of this guy's mouth. ZERO knowledge at all. My kid would come home complaining about this guy's practices as completely useless and say some of the stuff he did...it was true.

He was announced as the same Coach next year at the last possible minute and my kid is choosing not to play for him next year...even if it means be without a team at the moment. WASTE OF TIME. They players got worse over the course of the year. The ones he inherited knew what they were doing and were top of the table in the Fall, fell down to mid-tier and lost almost all games in April/May.

Just wondering, what sort of things was the coach saying?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you look at the percentage of the current MNT that got there by escaping to Europe before DA could run their career it's not so surprising that there aren't many DMV players making it. When you add in that DCU ran the least successful of the MLS DA programs it's even less surprising. For years the region's top talent went to DCU in their early teens to stall their development. Add to that the entire DA system was set up to prevent competition from smaller clubs it's not surprising that mediocrity was the outcome. MLS next promises to be more of the same. Until we get a new federation with a mission to develop soccer instead of fatten wallets we will be stuck with the same and the main path for future national team players will be to hold a European passport.

It's all crap. Growing up an American male in the United States is the biggest impediment to being a soccer superstar.

We are a family that has lived in both Europe and the US and what has always astounded me is how much European coaches LOVED my older son. They would talk about his great knowledge, knew exactly when to pass vs when to dribble, where to move, creative, etc. When we came back to the States, he's never been able to crack a top team---but when there is a European camp or ID session--he is asked to play up age groups and when they select a single kid for a US all-star team he is selected over many top kids in the area.

My 2nd born, who is good--but not older one's level is loved by US coaches.

The same type of player as my older one I will see and watch them also get looked over. His coach this season just wanted hard long balls and players that plowed into people and this was a Club that touts possession style. It was incredibly frustrating for him as a player and with a Coach who had zero concept of field movement.

For US soccer coaches, I still don’t know if it’s the lack of soccer understanding or it’s easier to win with big/fast players that just kick it long. I watch a lot do ENCL girls games, and most top teams have very big/fast forwards but lack technical skills and touch. But they win.

The DMV clubs are made up of former players who have started clubs and support themselves by drawing players to the clubs by having winning teams. There's little financial incentive to actually develop players. Winning brings in players and pays the bills. Taking time to nurture talent and development doesn't. Look at this forum. Everything is about this year. That's the only obligation a coach has to a player - what's happening this year. And even that commitment isn't honored in many cases. Development is a long game, which means that moving players around or making playing time decisions to improve the team's chance of winning hinders development of players.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you look at the percentage of the current MNT that got there by escaping to Europe before DA could run their career it's not so surprising that there aren't many DMV players making it. When you add in that DCU ran the least successful of the MLS DA programs it's even less surprising. For years the region's top talent went to DCU in their early teens to stall their development. Add to that the entire DA system was set up to prevent competition from smaller clubs it's not surprising that mediocrity was the outcome. MLS next promises to be more of the same. Until we get a new federation with a mission to develop soccer instead of fatten wallets we will be stuck with the same and the main path for future national team players will be to hold a European passport.

It's all crap. Growing up an American male in the United States is the biggest impediment to being a soccer superstar.

We are a family that has lived in both Europe and the US and what has always astounded me is how much European coaches LOVED my older son. They would talk about his great knowledge, knew exactly when to pass vs when to dribble, where to move, creative, etc. When we came back to the States, he's never been able to crack a top team---but when there is a European camp or ID session--he is asked to play up age groups and when they select a single kid for a US all-star team he is selected over many top kids in the area.

My 2nd born, who is good--but not older one's level is loved by US coaches.

The same type of player as my older one I will see and watch them also get looked over. His coach this season just wanted hard long balls and players that plowed into people and this was a Club that touts possession style. It was incredibly frustrating for him as a player and with a Coach who had zero concept of field movement.

For US soccer coaches, I still don’t know if it’s the lack of soccer understanding or it’s easier to win with big/fast players that just kick it long. I watch a lot do ENCL girls games, and most top teams have very big/fast forwards but lack technical skills and touch. But they win.

It's both.

My husband told me to go sit behind the Coach at my kid's last game. We are a family that has been in soccer at high levels in this area and abroad since the 70s.

OMG. I couldn't believe the crap that was coming out of this guy's mouth. ZERO knowledge at all. My kid would come home complaining about this guy's practices as completely useless and say some of the stuff he did...it was true.

He was announced as the same Coach next year at the last possible minute and my kid is choosing not to play for him next year...even if it means be without a team at the moment. WASTE OF TIME. They players got worse over the course of the year. The ones he inherited knew what they were doing and were top of the table in the Fall, fell down to mid-tier and lost almost all games in April/May.

Be brave and courageous. Name the coach and the club. Do us a favor. We always praise and credit the good apples.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you look at the percentage of the current MNT that got there by escaping to Europe before DA could run their career it's not so surprising that there aren't many DMV players making it. When you add in that DCU ran the least successful of the MLS DA programs it's even less surprising. For years the region's top talent went to DCU in their early teens to stall their development. Add to that the entire DA system was set up to prevent competition from smaller clubs it's not surprising that mediocrity was the outcome. MLS next promises to be more of the same. Until we get a new federation with a mission to develop soccer instead of fatten wallets we will be stuck with the same and the main path for future national team players will be to hold a European passport.

It's all crap. Growing up an American male in the United States is the biggest impediment to being a soccer superstar.

We are a family that has lived in both Europe and the US and what has always astounded me is how much European coaches LOVED my older son. They would talk about his great knowledge, knew exactly when to pass vs when to dribble, where to move, creative, etc. When we came back to the States, he's never been able to crack a top team---but when there is a European camp or ID session--he is asked to play up age groups and when they select a single kid for a US all-star team he is selected over many top kids in the area.

My 2nd born, who is good--but not older one's level is loved by US coaches.

The same type of player as my older one I will see and watch them also get looked over. His coach this season just wanted hard long balls and players that plowed into people and this was a Club that touts possession style. It was incredibly frustrating for him as a player and with a Coach who had zero concept of field movement.

For US soccer coaches, I still don’t know if it’s the lack of soccer understanding or it’s easier to win with big/fast players that just kick it long. I watch a lot do ENCL girls games, and most top teams have very big/fast forwards but lack technical skills and touch. But they win.

It's both.

My husband told me to go sit behind the Coach at my kid's last game. We are a family that has been in soccer at high levels in this area and abroad since the 70s.

OMG. I couldn't believe the crap that was coming out of this guy's mouth. ZERO knowledge at all. My kid would come home complaining about this guy's practices as completely useless and say some of the stuff he did...it was true.

He was announced as the same Coach next year at the last possible minute and my kid is choosing not to play for him next year...even if it means be without a team at the moment. WASTE OF TIME. They players got worse over the course of the year. The ones he inherited knew what they were doing and were top of the table in the Fall, fell down to mid-tier and lost almost all games in April/May.

Be brave and courageous. Name the coach and the club. Do us a favor. We always praise and credit the good apples.

No we don’t. If you read this forum, you would think there were no good coaches in Northern Virginia. You’d also think they are all terrible people.

[Anonymous]

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:I hadn't really thought about this until it came up in the PAC thread of all places, but is the DMV failing to produce good players?

The only player I could find who has been near the men's national team recently is Bill Hamid. The WNT is a bit better -- Andi Sullivan, Midge Purce, Emily Fox and Ali Krieger.

SoCal is always going to be the biggest source of players. But the DMV is trailing Colorado and Atlanta, among other places.

Are we doing something wrong? Or is this what we would expect?

You need to do a bit more research.

Agreed. There are many more but that would not support his "expert" analysis.

Name them.

Joe Gyau, Jeremy Ebobisse, Gideon Zelalem, and Nicholas Gioachinni have all spent some time with the national team.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In basketball, our best of the best are the best in the world.

In soccer, our best of the best are not the best in the world.

Same thing in Europe but in reverse.

Our best soccer players are not the best in Europe

Get it?

Yawn...have you had a new thought or idea over the last 20 years or so?
The US is barely dominant in basketball any more, you can see the NBA becoming more and more international every year.
And US soccer has progressed amazingly over the last decade or so. Our national team now is populated by players from top European teams.

The world is catching up to us in basketball, and we're catching up to the world in soccer. Neither happened overnight, but that's where the trend is heading.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In basketball, our best of the best are the best in the world.

In soccer, our best of the best are not the best in the world.

Same thing in Europe but in reverse.

Our best soccer players are not the best in Europe

Get it?

Yawn...have you had a new thought or idea over the last 20 years or so?
The US is barely dominant in basketball any more, you can see the NBA becoming more and more international every year.
And US soccer has progressed amazingly over the last decade or so. Our national team now is populated by players from top European teams.

The world is catching up to us in basketball, and we're catching up to the world in soccer. Neither happened overnight, but that's where the trend is heading.

Except that on the woman's side, the world is catching up to us and may surpass us soon in soccer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In basketball, our best of the best are the best in the world.

In soccer, our best of the best are not the best in the world.

Same thing in Europe but in reverse.

Our best soccer players are not the best in Europe

Get it?

Yawn...have you had a new thought or idea over the last 20 years or so?
The US is barely dominant in basketball any more, you can see the NBA becoming more and more international every year.
And US soccer has progressed amazingly over the last decade or so. Our national team now is populated by players from top European teams.

The world is catching up to us in basketball, and we're catching up to the world in soccer. Neither happened overnight, but that's where the trend is heading.

Except that on the woman's side, the world is catching up to us and may surpass us soon in soccer.

And in Women's basketball, the US is as dominant as ever. Obviously, there are different discussions to be had if your're talking about men's or women's sports.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In basketball, our best of the best are the best in the world.

In soccer, our best of the best are not the best in the world.

Same thing in Europe but in reverse.

Our best soccer players are not the best in Europe

Get it?

Yawn...have you had a new thought or idea over the last 20 years or so?
The US is barely dominant in basketball any more, you can see the NBA becoming more and more international every year.
And US soccer has progressed amazingly over the last decade or so. Our national team now is populated by players from top European teams.

The world is catching up to us in basketball, and we're catching up to the world in soccer. Neither happened overnight, but that's where the trend is heading.

Except that on the woman's side, the world is catching up to us and may surpass us soon in soccer.

And in Women's basketball, the US is as dominant as ever. Obviously, there are different discussions to be had if your're talking about men's or women's sports.

Well, 7 of 35 top draft picks in the WNBA were from outside of the US. And the WNBA is a tiny league. I agree with you that on both the men's and woman's side, the world is catching up to us.

I disagree with you that US soccer is catching up to the world on the men's side, and the rise of women's soccer outside of the US as compared to the players the US is developing further underscores how broken the US system is.

[Anonymous]

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:I hadn't really thought about this until it came up in the PAC thread of all places, but is the DMV failing to produce good players?

The only player I could find who has been near the men's national team recently is Bill Hamid. The WNT is a bit better -- Andi Sullivan, Midge Purce, Emily Fox and Ali Krieger.

SoCal is always going to be the biggest source of players. But the DMV is trailing Colorado and Atlanta, among other places.

Are we doing something wrong? Or is this what we would expect?

You need to do a bit more research.

Agreed. There are many more but that would not support his "expert" analysis.

Name them.

Joe Gyau, Jeremy Ebobisse, Gideon Zelalem, and Nicholas Gioachinni have all spent some time with the national team.

Not recently for Gyau, though it's unfair that injuries have held him back.

Ebobisse is at least on the radar. Zelalem seems to have fallen out -- his career has declined quite a bit.

Gioachinni wasn't here that long, but the DMV can claim partial credit if you like.

https://www.sbnation.com/2019/1/29/18199509/usmnt-roster-pool-demographics-latinx-foreign-born-players

The DMV area is fourth overall, behind only California, Texas and NY/NJ, according to actual research, and not your hunches.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In basketball, our best of the best are the best in the world.

In soccer, our best of the best are not the best in the world.

Same thing in Europe but in reverse.

Our best soccer players are not the best in Europe

Get it?

Yawn...have you had a new thought or idea over the last 20 years or so?
The US is barely dominant in basketball any more, you can see the NBA becoming more and more international every year.
And US soccer has progressed amazingly over the last decade or so. Our national team now is populated by players from top European teams.

The world is catching up to us in basketball, and we're catching up to the world in soccer. Neither happened overnight, but that's where the trend is heading.

Except that on the woman's side, the world is catching up to us and may surpass us soon in soccer.

And in Women's basketball, the US is as dominant as ever. Obviously, there are different discussions to be had if your're talking about men's or women's sports.

Well, 7 of 35 top draft picks in the WNBA were from outside of the US. And the WNBA is a tiny league. I agree with you that on both the men's and woman's side, the world is catching up to us.

I disagree with you that US soccer is catching up to the world on the men's side, and the rise of women's soccer outside of the US as compared to the players the US is developing further underscores how broken the US system is.

Catching up to the world might be a little strong, but they're definitely heading in the right direction and are better off now than they have ever been.

[Anonymous]

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:I hadn't really thought about this until it came up in the PAC thread of all places, but is the DMV failing to produce good players?

The only player I could find who has been near the men's national team recently is Bill Hamid. The WNT is a bit better -- Andi Sullivan, Midge Purce, Emily Fox and Ali Krieger.

SoCal is always going to be the biggest source of players. But the DMV is trailing Colorado and Atlanta, among other places.

Are we doing something wrong? Or is this what we would expect?

You need to do a bit more research.

Agreed. There are many more but that would not support his "expert" analysis.

Name them.

Joe Gyau, Jeremy Ebobisse, Gideon Zelalem, and Nicholas Gioachinni have all spent some time with the national team.

Not recently for Gyau, though it's unfair that injuries have held him back.

Ebobisse is at least on the radar. Zelalem seems to have fallen out -- his career has declined quite a bit.

Gioachinni wasn't here that long, but the DMV can claim partial credit if you like.

https://www.sbnation.com/2019/1/29/18199509/usmnt-roster-pool-demographics-latinx-foreign-born-players

The DMV area is fourth overall, behind only California, Texas and NY/NJ, according to actual research, and not your hunches.

More than two years ago, according to the date on the file, not your angry musings.

And if you dig deeper into the story, you'll see Maryland at 3.4% and Virginia at 2.8%. She gives 6.3% for the DMV as a whole. The District itself is lumped in with "under 2%."

I can ask Alicia if you like, but unless the District itself is at 1.9%, Baltimore produced very little and the rest of Virginia produced very little, the "DMV" is quite broadly defined here.

Virginia -- all of Virginia -- is tied with Georgia and Arizona.

More recently, again, it's just Hamid. Then two, if you count Gioachinni.

Maybe try more than one Google search before you come in with some nonsense about me not doing my homework when I'm asking a simple question. If you have evidence that the DMV is doing better than this data would make it seem, great. That would at least partially answer my question.

But you're apparently obsessed with me, so you'd rather not contemplate the question.

If you'd like to talk further, DM me or PM me or email me or whatever.

Over the course of 10 years. It's called a trend. And your response is that they define the area too broadly? Sure.
You had a theory, it's been proven wrong. Let it go.