Equity in vaccine distribution

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So I understand that POC overall have had worse outcomes with COVID. But have there been any studies showing that race alone is a contributing factor? Or is it that POC are more likely to live in crowded/substandard conditions, poorer health overall and less access to healthcare? In other words, is there any reason to believe that an AA person of similar age, health, and socioeconomic status to their white neighbor is still more predisposed to a worse outcome?

Not trying to start a controversy, just wondering if researchers have dug into this. We know that different races have different outcomes with sickle cell anemia, for instance.

I don't know about Covid specifically but
A. A lot of the issues you describe are the direct result of racist policies like redlining so POC don't just "happen" to live in these conditions
B. There is clear data showing that race is correlated with health outcomes regardless of socioeconomic status and part of the way it works is that healthcare providers discriminate on the basis of race.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Obesity is not a risk factor - it is a life choice - like smoking.

Cancer - risk factor. Autoimmune deficiency - risk factor.

Not staying up on the obesity research, are you?

No, but I don't need to.

You don't take care of your body - you get fat. You get fat - your risk shoots up for a laundry list of health issues.

PP - There is plenty of online exercise classes now as well as research and information on how to keep yourself healthy. Do that research for yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Obesity is not a risk factor - it is a life choice - like smoking.

Cancer - risk factor. Autoimmune deficiency - risk factor.

Not staying up on the obesity research, are you?

No, but I don't need to.

You don't take care of your body - you get fat. You get fat - your risk shoots up for a laundry list of health issues.

PP - There is plenty of online exercise classes now as well as research and information on how to keep yourself healthy. Do that research for yourself.

Even if you were right about what causes obesity, which you aren't, being obese still puts you at far higher risk from coronavirus than you would be if you aren't obese. So that makes obesity a risk factor. The point of the vaccine is to save lives, prevent hospitalizations, and stop the spread of the virus. You may not like the idea that people who you don' think "deserve" the vaccine are getting it early, but it makes good sense from a public health standpoint.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I understand that POC overall have had worse outcomes with COVID. But have there been any studies showing that race alone is a contributing factor? Or is it that POC are more likely to live in crowded/substandard conditions, poorer health overall and less access to healthcare? In other words, is there any reason to believe that an AA person of similar age, health, and socioeconomic status to their white neighbor is still more predisposed to a worse outcome?

Not trying to start a controversy, just wondering if researchers have dug into this. We know that different races have different outcomes with sickle cell anemia, for instance.

I don't know about Covid specifically but
A. A lot of the issues you describe are the direct result of racist policies like redlining so POC don't just "happen" to live in these conditions
B. There is clear data showing that race is correlated with health outcomes regardless of socioeconomic status and part of the way it works is that healthcare providers discriminate on the basis of race.

I'm cheering on that the Mayor has recently announced progress in Ward 8 hospital plans. Also need more supermarkets, but DC GOV will have to supply incentives. A lot of supermarkets have security concerns (both physical and loss prevention) and the city can work with them to address that. DC has had AA leadership since what, the 60s? About time for these initiatives that look out for black (as well as low-SES, since rich blacks in other wards are doing just fine) health and well being.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/southeast-hospital-dc/2021/01/28/dd8dba04-6191-11eb-9061-07abcc1f9229_story.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I understand that POC overall have had worse outcomes with COVID. But have there been any studies showing that race alone is a contributing factor? Or is it that POC are more likely to live in crowded/substandard conditions, poorer health overall and less access to healthcare? In other words, is there any reason to believe that an AA person of similar age, health, and socioeconomic status to their white neighbor is still more predisposed to a worse outcome?

Not trying to start a controversy, just wondering if researchers have dug into this. We know that different races have different outcomes with sickle cell anemia, for instance.

I don't know about Covid specifically but
A. A lot of the issues you describe are the direct result of racist policies like redlining so POC don't just "happen" to live in these conditions
B. There is clear data showing that race is correlated with health outcomes regardless of socioeconomic status and part of the way it works is that healthcare providers discriminate on the basis of race.

I totally get that, just trying to understand the causal factors. Maybe it’s too hard to tease apart, but would be useful to know for effective treatment and prevention. My office-mate in non-covid times is AA, grew up UMC and one of the healthiest, most fit guys I know. Yet even with those relative advantages is there still something that makes him more vulnerable than me, an average who’re woman?

(Also, when I mentioned sickle cell anemia, I was referring to the link with malaria vulnerability, was typing this quickly)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just give it to all the POC first, and eliminate any possibility of bickering. Because that’s the only option where someone isn’t bleating “that’s racist!” .

I’m white, and will happily go to the end of the line just to get people to STFU.

Unfortunately that's where we are for the next 100 years. Reparations are going to be in the form of legal discrimination against white people in all aspects of society. Vaccine distribution being just one anecdote of the new normal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I understand that POC overall have had worse outcomes with COVID. But have there been any studies showing that race alone is a contributing factor? Or is it that POC are more likely to live in crowded/substandard conditions, poorer health overall and less access to healthcare? In other words, is there any reason to believe that an AA person of similar age, health, and socioeconomic status to their white neighbor is still more predisposed to a worse outcome?

Not trying to start a controversy, just wondering if researchers have dug into this. We know that different races have different outcomes with sickle cell anemia, for instance.

I don't know about Covid specifically but
A. A lot of the issues you describe are the direct result of racist policies like redlining so POC don't just "happen" to live in these conditions
B. There is clear data showing that race is correlated with health outcomes regardless of socioeconomic status and part of the way it works is that healthcare providers discriminate on the basis of race.

I totally get that, just trying to understand the causal factors. Maybe it’s too hard to tease apart, but would be useful to know for effective treatment and prevention. My office-mate in non-covid times is AA, grew up UMC and one of the healthiest, most fit guys I know. Yet even with those relative advantages is there still something that makes him more vulnerable than me, an average who’re woman?

(Also, when I mentioned sickle cell anemia, I was referring to the link with malaria vulnerability, was typing this quickly)

apart from the new s african variant, black Africans in Africa have been doing well with Covid-- so it definitely merits more study. I think a workable theory is the outcomes in America have a lot more to do with underlying conditions and access to preventive care - which are also poverty issues you could see in any poor group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just give it to all the POC first, and eliminate any possibility of bickering. Because that’s the only option where someone isn’t bleating “that’s racist!” .

I’m white, and will happily go to the end of the line just to get people to STFU.

Unfortunately that's where we are for the next 100 years. Reparations are going to be in the form of legal discrimination against white people in all aspects of society. Vaccine distribution being just one anecdote of the new normal.

Then won't white people just leave. White flight is a real phenomenon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just give it to all the POC first, and eliminate any possibility of bickering. Because that’s the only option where someone isn’t bleating “that’s racist!” .

I’m white, and will happily go to the end of the line just to get people to STFU.

Unfortunately that's where we are for the next 100 years. Reparations are going to be in the form of legal discrimination against white people in all aspects of society. Vaccine distribution being just one anecdote of the new normal.

DCs low rates in Ward 3 no doubt have to do with the high rate of work from home (distancing) and mask wearing. yes, part of this is being able to work from home due to jobs that allow this and $ resources. With that being said, since the city government can count on this virus preventing behavior why would they rush resources to this group? they'll be doing this NEXT spring if needed.

[Anonymous]

There's an article in the Post today about the states that are doing the best job of distributing the vaccine. The common denominator seems to be simplicity. Complicating the process by trying to refine prioritization, or racial equity, or whatever, slows down the process. Create broad categories: health care workers, people over 70, whatever; don't overthink it. Either create big vaccination sites (stadiums, convention centers) or use existing infrastructure (pharmacies) and get it going.
Everyone is better off if more people are vaccinated more quickly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just give it to all the POC first, and eliminate any possibility of bickering. Because that’s the only option where someone isn’t bleating “that’s racist!” .

I’m white, and will happily go to the end of the line just to get people to STFU.

Unfortunately that's where we are for the next 100 years. Reparations are going to be in the form of legal discrimination against white people in all aspects of society. Vaccine distribution being just one anecdote of the new normal.

DCs low rates in Ward 3 no doubt have to do with the high rate of work from home (distancing) and mask wearing. yes, part of this is being able to work from home due to jobs that allow this and $ resources. With that being said, since the city government can count on this virus preventing behavior why would they rush resources to this group? they'll be doing this NEXT spring if needed.

Indeed, why would they rush resources to this affluent group, who has already received more than 25 percent of the senior vaccines? They have already received the lion's share of the scarce vaccine, despite the fact that they have fewer cases, better insurance, and more resources. Now they can wait until things equalize across the city a bit.

I can't believe that people can gladly hoover up resources and then cry discrimination when we try to make it more equitable, but here we are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I understand that POC overall have had worse outcomes with COVID. But have there been any studies showing that race alone is a contributing factor? Or is it that POC are more likely to live in crowded/substandard conditions, poorer health overall and less access to healthcare? In other words, is there any reason to believe that an AA person of similar age, health, and socioeconomic status to their white neighbor is still more predisposed to a worse outcome?

Not trying to start a controversy, just wondering if researchers have dug into this. We know that different races have different outcomes with sickle cell anemia, for instance.

I don't know about Covid specifically but
A. A lot of the issues you describe are the direct result of racist policies like redlining so POC don't just "happen" to live in these conditions
B. There is clear data showing that race is correlated with health outcomes regardless of socioeconomic status and part of the way it works is that healthcare providers discriminate on the basis of race.

I totally get that, just trying to understand the causal factors. Maybe it’s too hard to tease apart, but would be useful to know for effective treatment and prevention. My office-mate in non-covid times is AA, grew up UMC and one of the healthiest, most fit guys I know. Yet even with those relative advantages is there still something that makes him more vulnerable than me, an average who’re woman?

(Also, when I mentioned sickle cell anemia, I was referring to the link with malaria vulnerability, was typing this quickly)

apart from the new s african variant, black Africans in Africa have been doing well with Covid-- so it definitely merits more study. I think a workable theory is the outcomes in America have a lot more to do with underlying conditions and access to preventive care - which are also poverty issues you could see in any poor group.

Tons of factors to consider. I remember there were some theories about certain vaccines that are only given in developing countries being protective. Also, developing countries have younger populations so they are likely to have fewer severe disease/deaths.

To PP's bolded question - of course on an individual level everyone has different risk factors. If you have underlying disease and he doesn't of course you're probably higher risk. But yes, he does face risk purely on the basis of race because our healthcare system discriminates against Black people, so he won't get the same level of care as you would. There are other groups like this - for example obese people don't get good healthcare because providers assume their health care problems are their fault. So even something that isn't related to their weight, the provider is likely to say they need to lose weight and not provide the care they need. We are conditioned as a society to view Black men as criminals and Black women as welfare queens. It's easy to see how a health care provider, without realizing it, might assume a Black man doesn't deserve good care or brought disease on himself. Not saying every health care provider, but the aggregate data clearly shows this happens.

[Anonymous]

MD, DC, and VA are not doing a good job getting shots in arms. This is what will stop the pandemic; not everything is about "equity". We are supply-constrained. When we are demand-constrained, let's worry about people who don't want the dang shots. Every rule meant to address an inequity or impose "fairness" will slow down vaccination rates and make it more likely that new variants will get a foothold, and we will *all* lose another summer / fall to Covid. West Virginia has the highest vax rate in the contiguous U.S. because they've kept it simple. This has been nothing but a bureaucratic mess since the start in the DMV, and every new special interest group has made it worse. All of these additional "setting aside" and "quotas" will hurt everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just give it to all the POC first, and eliminate any possibility of bickering. Because that’s the only option where someone isn’t bleating “that’s racist!” .

I’m white, and will happily go to the end of the line just to get people to STFU.

Unfortunately that's where we are for the next 100 years. Reparations are going to be in the form of legal discrimination against white people in all aspects of society. Vaccine distribution being just one anecdote of the new normal.

DCs low rates in Ward 3 no doubt have to do with the high rate of work from home (distancing) and mask wearing. yes, part of this is being able to work from home due to jobs that allow this and $ resources. With that being said, since the city government can count on this virus preventing behavior why would they rush resources to this group? they'll be doing this NEXT spring if needed.

Indeed, why would they rush resources to this affluent group, who has already received more than 25 percent of the senior vaccines? They have already received the lion's share of the scarce vaccine, despite the fact that they have fewer cases, better insurance, and more resources. Now they can wait until things equalize across the city a bit.

I can't believe that people can gladly hoover up resources and then cry discrimination when we try to make it more equitable, but here we are.

Fortunately, two other things are also true: The city is still pushing ahead with prioritizing other Zip codes with some appointments to allow for more equitable access, and also, while there are some Ward 3 residents who are loudly opposed to that policy, many of us here understand the rationale for it and support it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MD, DC, and VA are not doing a good job getting shots in arms. This is what will stop the pandemic; not everything is about "equity". We are supply-constrained. When we are demand-constrained, let's worry about people who don't want the dang shots. Every rule meant to address an inequity or impose "fairness" will slow down vaccination rates and make it more likely that new variants will get a foothold, and we will *all* lose another summer / fall to Covid. West Virginia has the highest vax rate in the contiguous U.S. because they've kept it simple. This has been nothing but a bureaucratic mess since the start in the DMV, and every new special interest group has made it worse. All of these additional "setting aside" and "quotas" will hurt everyone.

Yes they are.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/covid-19-vaccine-doses.html