White Latinos and affirmative action

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even if they’re wealthy, their presence is valuable to the school. I don’t have a problem with this. Why insist that class diversity and ethnic diversity be provided by the same kids?

You’re only looking at the benefit to the student, not the benefit to the institution.

+1 Colleges aren't looking to create a campus environment where all of the rich kids are white and all of the non-white kids are poor. Why should that be a goal?

Why would all the rich kids be white without affirmative action? Plenty of minority candidates are well qualified on their own merits.

OP's entire complaint is about kids that are qualified on their own merits but she still thinks the only reason they got in is affirmative action. To wit:

Like with many affirmative action cases, these kids are obviously qualified but the race box is what pushed them over the edge above a white or asian student

I think a lot of the "You can't sure of all the facts" responses like this are sidestepping the underlying question posed by OP. Are you asserting that white latinos never benefit from affirmative action? Or just saying "we can't be sure" and leaving it at that?

[Anonymous]

Whether the college offers an advantage in admission is up to the college. As noted by a few PPs, just fill out the form honestly and let the chips fall. The college can decide.

From Common App:

Are you Hispanic or Latino/a/x
[x] Yes
[ ] No

Which best describes your Hispanic or Latino/a/x background? (You may select one or more)
[ ] Central America
[ ] Cuba
[ ] Mexico
[ ] Puerto Rico
[ ] South America
[ ] Spain
[ ] Other

Specify other Hispanic or Latino/a/x background [____]

Regardless of your answer to the prior question, please indicate how you identify yourself. (You may select one or more)
[ ] American Indian or Alaska Native
[ ] Asian
[ ] Black or African American
[ ] Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander
[x] White

Which best describes your White background? (You may select one or more)
[x] Europe
[ ] Middle East
[ ] Other

The questions in this section, while helpful to colleges, are entirely optional, and you're welcome to move on without answering them. Before you do, please confirm for us that you've completed this section to your satisfaction.
[ ] Yes, I have completed this section to my satisfaction.

Let applicants fill out the form to their satisfaction. If you don't like the form, take that up with the US federal govt, which requires colleges to report this data.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The point of affirmative action as a matter of law is to remedy past discrimination or the discriminatory effects of past practices. It is not to give an advantage to economically underprivileged students -- there are many other programs designed to address that. So, if a school has found that its admissions policies previously caused underrepresentation of those who could '"check the Latino box," then admitting those who can do so remedies that underrepresentation, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with the shade of their skin or bank account balance.

In the meantime, poor Asian applicants are excluded from top universities on the basis of race.

They aren’t minorities.

[Anonymous]

It is illegal to lie in a college form, and they can easily kick you out for doing so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not an affirmative action basher. I get it. I believe we need to take active steps to dismantle systems of oppression and I think this includes bringing underrepresented groups into elite schools even if its at the expense of others. I do think it should be class based rather than race based but that's a longer out thing. Here's my complaint for today: I keep seeing wealthy white Latino students from DD's school getting into top colleges. Like with many affirmative action cases, these kids are obviously qualified but the race box is what pushed them over the edge above a white or asian student. But here's the difference. These children don’t come from marginalized groups. Not only do these students present as white but they are almost universally upper class. Latin America has a race based class system like the US does. White Latinos are the oppressors in the same way WASPs have been in the US. It's ignorant and counterproductive to allow them to benefit from affirmative action. They don't need it to fight generations of oppression. I cannot think of a way to exclude these students from affirmative action without also boxing out peers from the same regions who have been negatively impacted by the colonizers so I don't think there's anything that can be done but it frustrates me to no end. I guess we've circled back to the need for affirmative action to be class based.

You're not the authority on minorities' experiences. You don't know what those of us who can "pass" as white in certain situations have had to endure, whether it's based on our obviously non-white names or seeing how our parents are treated. Kindly F off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even if they’re wealthy, their presence is valuable to the school. I don’t have a problem with this. Why insist that class diversity and ethnic diversity be provided by the same kids?

You’re only looking at the benefit to the student, not the benefit to the institution.

+1 Colleges aren't looking to create a campus environment where all of the rich kids are white and all of the non-white kids are poor. Why should that be a goal?

Why would all the rich kids be white without affirmative action? Plenty of minority candidates are well qualified on their own merits.

OP's entire complaint is about kids that are qualified on their own merits but she still thinks the only reason they got in is affirmative action. To wit:

Like with many affirmative action cases, these kids are obviously qualified but the race box is what pushed them over the edge above a white or asian student

I think a lot of the "You can't sure of all the facts" responses like this are sidestepping the underlying question posed by OP. Are you asserting that white latinos never benefit from affirmative action? Or just saying "we can't be sure" and leaving it at that?

I'm not sidestepping anything. I said explicitly in my first response that there is no reason they should not benefit, if that's what happened, because affirmative action is not just for poor people.

Both of OP's premises - that white Latinos are only getting into college on affirmative action, even if they're qualified applicants, AND that white Latinos are cheating the system by listing their ethnicity because it might qualify them for affirmative action that she thinks they should not be entitled to - are false and offensive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even if they’re wealthy, their presence is valuable to the school. I don’t have a problem with this. Why insist that class diversity and ethnic diversity be provided by the same kids?

You’re only looking at the benefit to the student, not the benefit to the institution.

+1 Colleges aren't looking to create a campus environment where all of the rich kids are white and all of the non-white kids are poor. Why should that be a goal?

Why would all the rich kids be white without affirmative action? Plenty of minority candidates are well qualified on their own merits.

OP's entire complaint is about kids that are qualified on their own merits but she still thinks the only reason they got in is affirmative action. To wit:

Like with many affirmative action cases, these kids are obviously qualified but the race box is what pushed them over the edge above a white or asian student

So the child of conquistadors gets the hacienda AND the reparations?

I think a lot of the "You can't sure of all the facts" responses like this are sidestepping the underlying question posed by OP. Are you asserting that white latinos never benefit from affirmative action? Or just saying "we can't be sure" and leaving it at that?

I'm not sidestepping anything. I said explicitly in my first response that there is no reason they should not benefit, if that's what happened, because affirmative action is not just for poor people.

Both of OP's premises - that white Latinos are only getting into college on affirmative action, even if they're qualified applicants, AND that white Latinos are cheating the system by listing their ethnicity because it might qualify them for affirmative action that she thinks they should not be entitled to - are false and offensive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even if they’re wealthy, their presence is valuable to the school. I don’t have a problem with this. Why insist that class diversity and ethnic diversity be provided by the same kids?

You’re only looking at the benefit to the student, not the benefit to the institution.

+1 Colleges aren't looking to create a campus environment where all of the rich kids are white and all of the non-white kids are poor. Why should that be a goal?

Why would all the rich kids be white without affirmative action? Plenty of minority candidates are well qualified on their own merits.

OP's entire complaint is about kids that are qualified on their own merits but she still thinks the only reason they got in is affirmative action. To wit:

Like with many affirmative action cases, these kids are obviously qualified but the race box is what pushed them over the edge above a white or asian student

So the child of conquistadors gets the hacienda AND the reparations?

I think a lot of the "You can't sure of all the facts" responses like this are sidestepping the underlying question posed by OP. Are you asserting that white latinos never benefit from affirmative action? Or just saying "we can't be sure" and leaving it at that?

I'm not sidestepping anything. I said explicitly in my first response that there is no reason they should not benefit, if that's what happened, because affirmative action is not just for poor people.

Both of OP's premises - that white Latinos are only getting into college on affirmative action, even if they're qualified applicants, AND that white Latinos are cheating the system by listing their ethnicity because it might qualify them for affirmative action that she thinks they should not be entitled to - are false and offensive.

Meant to put this at the bottom: So the child of conquistadors gets both the hacienda AND the reparations?

[Anonymous]

OP, while you're busy studying the historical sociology of Latin American, you might want to google Mestizo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The point of affirmative action as a matter of law is to remedy past discrimination or the discriminatory effects of past practices. It is not to give an advantage to economically underprivileged students -- there are many other programs designed to address that. So, if a school has found that its admissions policies previously caused underrepresentation of those who could '"check the Latino box," then admitting those who can do so remedies that underrepresentation, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with the shade of their skin or bank account balance.

In the meantime, poor Asian applicants are excluded from top universities on the basis of race.

They aren’t minorities.

They are minorities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, while you're busy studying the historical sociology of Latin American, you might want to google Mestizo.

PP: Take it one step further and share you're proposed US policies w/r/t mestizos, creoles, etc

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even if they’re wealthy, their presence is valuable to the school. I don’t have a problem with this. Why insist that class diversity and ethnic diversity be provided by the same kids?

You’re only looking at the benefit to the student, not the benefit to the institution.

+1 Colleges aren't looking to create a campus environment where all of the rich kids are white and all of the non-white kids are poor. Why should that be a goal?

Why would all the rich kids be white without affirmative action? Plenty of minority candidates are well qualified on their own merits.

OP's entire complaint is about kids that are qualified on their own merits but she still thinks the only reason they got in is affirmative action. To wit:

Like with many affirmative action cases, these kids are obviously qualified but the race box is what pushed them over the edge above a white or asian student

So the child of conquistadors gets the hacienda AND the reparations?

I think a lot of the "You can't sure of all the facts" responses like this are sidestepping the underlying question posed by OP. Are you asserting that white latinos never benefit from affirmative action? Or just saying "we can't be sure" and leaving it at that?

I'm not sidestepping anything. I said explicitly in my first response that there is no reason they should not benefit, if that's what happened, because affirmative action is not just for poor people.

Both of OP's premises - that white Latinos are only getting into college on affirmative action, even if they're qualified applicants, AND that white Latinos are cheating the system by listing their ethnicity because it might qualify them for affirmative action that she thinks they should not be entitled to - are false and offensive.

Meant to put this at the bottom: So the child of conquistadors gets both the hacienda AND the reparations?

Affirmative action in college admissions is not intended to repay applicants for the good deeds of their ancestors. It's intended to achieve a diverse student body and counterbalance historic discrimination, which was not limited to people with darker skin tones. Latinos have been discriminated against based on color, but also language, religion, and cultural customs.

[Anonymous]

Mestizos are the racial majority of Mexico. So to clarify, OP thinks that White Latinos (aka Mestizos) should deny their Hispanic/Latino ethnicity on apps because they are the children of conquistadors. Or is it only the ones with light skin? (Wait, what's ethnicity again?)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Mestizos are the racial majority of Mexico. So to clarify, OP thinks that White Latinos (aka Mestizos) should deny their Hispanic/Latino ethnicity on apps because they are the children of conquistadors. Or is it only the ones with light skin? (Wait, what's ethnicity again?)

I think you're saying that by now, most folks have a mix of backgrounds and it's too hard to separate out the oppressors from the oppressed ... Which I think I agree with.

But at least concede there are folks from Latin America who are mismatches for affirmative action. Take Jair Bolsonaro for example. What if after completing his military career, he moved to the US instead of going into politics? His parents are Italian and German, but he grew up in Brazil. Should his kids benefit from affirmative action in the US?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mestizos are the racial majority of Mexico. So to clarify, OP thinks that White Latinos (aka Mestizos) should deny their Hispanic/Latino ethnicity on apps because they are the children of conquistadors. Or is it only the ones with light skin? (Wait, what's ethnicity again?)

I think you're saying that by now, most folks have a mix of backgrounds and it's too hard to separate out the oppressors from the oppressed ... Which I think I agree with.

But at least concede there are folks from Latin America who are mismatches for affirmative action. Take Jair Bolsonaro for example. What if after completing his military career, he moved to the US instead of going into politics? His parents are Italian and German, but he grew up in Brazil. Should his kids benefit from affirmative action in the US?

If he is not a US citizen or permanent resident, his race and ethnicity are not relevant, as they are not included in the numbers colleges report to the federal govt.

There is no "affirmative action" box to check in the application. There is no single "affirmative action" national policy. Affirmative action is not the same thing as a diversity goal. According to you, rich Latinos aren't really Latinos and should lie, check no in response to the question.