White Latinos and affirmative action

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

In addition, it has been explained that racial balance in admissions is NOT affirmative action.

That was something that people could believe before discovery in the Harvard case, now different sets of standards based on race are public record. Maybe that one girl was qualified, but hispanics are as a whole admitted to Harvard (the only elite school we have verified, non-manipulated data from) shows that hispanic applicants are held to a lesser standard than white or asian applicants.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. The fact you present does not disprove the statement "racial balance in admissions is NOT affirmative action" at all.

The fact that there are fewer higher performing students of certain races absolutely indicates systemic injustice and imbalance in our society; but college admissions processes are not designed that way because of that fact, even if the result would be the same if they were.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This happened in my high school, where a girl checked the box while coming from a European Mexican family on one side and an old money WASP family on the other. She hyphenated to include the Spanish last name legally but when she introduced herself or had her name in anything like a school concert she just used her WASP last name. She got into every school and ended up going to a top 2 SLAC. She of course dropped the Spanish last name after....doesn’t seem like she should have gotten the boost but it’s not a perfect system.

You saw her application? Then in addition to knowing what she checked, you also know she was otherwise unqualified for admission? How?

Yes, like every small group of the top 20-30 kids in a graduating class, we all talked. I didn’t say she was unqualified, I said she got into schools others didn’t, including the valedictorian who was also all state athlete and musician/etc. had better stats than her. I don’t think affirmative action is meant to help people like her.

Sorry but there is no way to say this without it sounding rude - please know that is not my intention.

You didn't see her application, including her essays and recommendations, nor did you see the others. You aren't comparing their expected majors or intellectual backgrounds, which are key ingredients in building a class.

Sometimes kids with higher stats are passed over for those with slightly lower for many reasons, and you know admissions is not a numbers exercise; once you qualify, your numbers mean less and other criteria take hold - especially at a small LAC like Amherst and Williams. Maybe they had enough musicians? Also, an all-state athlete would likely be recruited. And let's not forget that occasionally top stats kids are passed over for yield protection.

You have no idea why she was admitted, or why the Val wasn't. It's very wrong, and unfair, to make your accusation. You should stop that. In all sincerity.

In addition, it has been explained that racial balance in admissions is NOT affirmative action.

You are twisting yourself into a pretzel... maybe the school needed to fill the Hispanic quota.

You use the word "maybe".

That's exactly my point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

In addition, it has been explained that racial balance in admissions is NOT affirmative action.

That was something that people could believe before discovery in the Harvard case, now different sets of standards based on race are public record. Maybe that one girl was qualified, but hispanics are as a whole admitted to Harvard (the only elite school we have verified, non-manipulated data from) shows that hispanic applicants are held to a lesser standard than white or asian applicants.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. The fact you present does not disprove the statement "racial balance in admissions is NOT affirmative action" at all.

The fact that there are fewer higher performing students of certain races absolutely indicates systemic injustice and imbalance in our society; but college admissions processes are not designed that way because of that fact, even if the result would be the same if they were.

dress it up however you want to, people are accepted over more qualified candidates based on the color of their skin (or in this case, the willingness to check a box)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

In addition, it has been explained that racial balance in admissions is NOT affirmative action.

That was something that people could believe before discovery in the Harvard case, now different sets of standards based on race are public record. Maybe that one girl was qualified, but hispanics are as a whole admitted to Harvard (the only elite school we have verified, non-manipulated data from) shows that hispanic applicants are held to a lesser standard than white or asian applicants.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. The fact you present does not disprove the statement "racial balance in admissions is NOT affirmative action" at all.

The fact that there are fewer higher performing students of certain races absolutely indicates systemic injustice and imbalance in our society; but college admissions processes are not designed that way because of that fact, even if the result would be the same if they were.

dress it up however you want to, people are accepted over more qualified candidates based on the color of their skin (or in this case, the willingness to check a box)

Sigh... sorry the complexity of the situation does not fit your narrative. But your oversimplification of the facts is highly misleading.

If trying to understand the facts of why colleges admit the way they do is "dressing it up", well, then ok, call me Calvin Klein if it makes you feel better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

In addition, it has been explained that racial balance in admissions is NOT affirmative action.

That was something that people could believe before discovery in the Harvard case, now different sets of standards based on race are public record. Maybe that one girl was qualified, but hispanics are as a whole admitted to Harvard (the only elite school we have verified, non-manipulated data from) shows that hispanic applicants are held to a lesser standard than white or asian applicants.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. The fact you present does not disprove the statement "racial balance in admissions is NOT affirmative action" at all.

The fact that there are fewer higher performing students of certain races absolutely indicates systemic injustice and imbalance in our society; but college admissions processes are not designed that way because of that fact, even if the result would be the same if they were.

dress it up however you want to, people are accepted over more qualified candidates based on the color of their skin (or in this case, the willingness to check a box)

Sigh... sorry the complexity of the situation does not fit your narrative. But your oversimplification of the facts is highly misleading.

If trying to understand the facts of why colleges admit the way they do is "dressing it up", well, then ok, call me Calvin Klein if it makes you feel better.

it's not complex, colleges want to say they are diverse, so they admit students who allow them to make that statement. In some cases, it means taking two similar kids from the same school and same socioeconomic background and passing over the more qualified on for the less qualified one. If they schools cared about righting historical wrongs or allowing for past injustices negatively impacting certain populations, they would be more targeted about diversity- the kid from Ballou with the marginal SAT score would be the recipient not the doctor's kid going to Sidwell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

In addition, it has been explained that racial balance in admissions is NOT affirmative action.

That was something that people could believe before discovery in the Harvard case, now different sets of standards based on race are public record. Maybe that one girl was qualified, but hispanics are as a whole admitted to Harvard (the only elite school we have verified, non-manipulated data from) shows that hispanic applicants are held to a lesser standard than white or asian applicants.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. The fact you present does not disprove the statement "racial balance in admissions is NOT affirmative action" at all.

The fact that there are fewer higher performing students of certain races absolutely indicates systemic injustice and imbalance in our society; but college admissions processes are not designed that way because of that fact, even if the result would be the same if they were.

dress it up however you want to, people are accepted over more qualified candidates based on the color of their skin (or in this case, the willingness to check a box)

Sigh... sorry the complexity of the situation does not fit your narrative. But your oversimplification of the facts is highly misleading.

If trying to understand the facts of why colleges admit the way they do is "dressing it up", well, then ok, call me Calvin Klein if it makes you feel better.

it's not complex, colleges want to say they are diverse, so they admit students who allow them to make that statement. In some cases, it means taking two similar kids from the same school and same socioeconomic background and passing over the more qualified on for the less qualified one. If they schools cared about righting historical wrongs or allowing for past injustices negatively impacting certain populations, they would be more targeted about diversity- the kid from Ballou with the marginal SAT score would be the recipient not the doctor's kid going to Sidwell.

OK then, assuming you are PP, then we agree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This happened in my high school, where a girl checked the box while coming from a European Mexican family on one side and an old money WASP family on the other. She hyphenated to include the Spanish last name legally but when she introduced herself or had her name in anything like a school concert she just used her WASP last name. She got into every school and ended up going to a top 2 SLAC. She of course dropped the Spanish last name after....doesn’t seem like she should have gotten the boost but it’s not a perfect system.

You saw her application? Then in addition to knowing what she checked, you also know she was otherwise unqualified for admission? How?

It's not that they're unqualified. But anyone who's seen this year after year with multiple kids knows the deal, the same way you understand why the star lacrosse or football player gets in to his Ivy ED/EA when none of the academic superstars in the class do.

Spoiler alert: it's not their essays lol

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This happened in my high school, where a girl checked the box while coming from a European Mexican family on one side and an old money WASP family on the other. She hyphenated to include the Spanish last name legally but when she introduced herself or had her name in anything like a school concert she just used her WASP last name. She got into every school and ended up going to a top 2 SLAC. She of course dropped the Spanish last name after....doesn’t seem like she should have gotten the boost but it’s not a perfect system.

You saw her application? Then in addition to knowing what she checked, you also know she was otherwise unqualified for admission? How?

It's not that they're unqualified. But anyone who's seen this year after year with multiple kids knows the deal, the same way you understand why the star lacrosse or football player gets in to his Ivy ED/EA when none of the academic superstars in the class do.

Spoiler alert: it's not their essays lol

Review Harvard case discovery material related to applicants' information including race, gender etc. My kid's information is in there with name, address etc. redacted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This happened in my high school, where a girl checked the box while coming from a European Mexican family on one side and an old money WASP family on the other. She hyphenated to include the Spanish last name legally but when she introduced herself or had her name in anything like a school concert she just used her WASP last name. She got into every school and ended up going to a top 2 SLAC. She of course dropped the Spanish last name after....doesn’t seem like she should have gotten the boost but it’s not a perfect system.

You saw her application? Then in addition to knowing what she checked, you also know she was otherwise unqualified for admission? How?

It's not that they're unqualified. But anyone who's seen this year after year with multiple kids knows the deal, the same way you understand why the star lacrosse or football player gets in to his Ivy ED/EA when none of the academic superstars in the class do.

Spoiler alert: it's not their essays lol

Review Harvard case discovery material related to applicants' information including race, gender etc. My kid's information is in there with name, address etc. redacted.

To what end? I don't understand the point you're making here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This happened in my high school, where a girl checked the box while coming from a European Mexican family on one side and an old money WASP family on the other. She hyphenated to include the Spanish last name legally but when she introduced herself or had her name in anything like a school concert she just used her WASP last name. She got into every school and ended up going to a top 2 SLAC. She of course dropped the Spanish last name after....doesn’t seem like she should have gotten the boost but it’s not a perfect system.

You saw her application? Then in addition to knowing what she checked, you also know she was otherwise unqualified for admission? How?

It's not that they're unqualified. But anyone who's seen this year after year with multiple kids knows the deal, the same way you understand why the star lacrosse or football player gets in to his Ivy ED/EA when none of the academic superstars in the class do.

Spoiler alert: it's not their essays lol

“Everybody knows”. Right. Bullshit is usually sold that way.

And recruited athletes are totally different. “Everybody knows” about them because the process is well known. As are development admits.

Let’s not make stuff up to serve our narratives. Let’s talk about facts, and not “My cousin knows this guy who has a friend who click Native American and got into Harvard with a 3.3!”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This happened in my high school, where a girl checked the box while coming from a European Mexican family on one side and an old money WASP family on the other. She hyphenated to include the Spanish last name legally but when she introduced herself or had her name in anything like a school concert she just used her WASP last name. She got into every school and ended up going to a top 2 SLAC. She of course dropped the Spanish last name after....doesn’t seem like she should have gotten the boost but it’s not a perfect system.

You saw her application? Then in addition to knowing what she checked, you also know she was otherwise unqualified for admission? How?

It's not that they're unqualified. But anyone who's seen this year after year with multiple kids knows the deal, the same way you understand why the star lacrosse or football player gets in to his Ivy ED/EA when none of the academic superstars in the class do.

Spoiler alert: it's not their essays lol

Review Harvard case discovery material related to applicants' information including race, gender etc. My kid's information is in there with name, address etc. redacted.

To what end? I don't understand the point you're making here.

You want facts, so there are "facts" in the discovery material related to applicants' information for 5 year period for ALL applicants who have applied to Harvard for that 5 year period. You can see for yourself.

[Anonymous]

Latinos, we are not white enough, or black enough to “count”. Geez.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Latinos, we are not white enough, or black enough to “count”. Geez.

But you get yo take advantage of affirmative action while some can still receive or be entitled to white privilege. Good deal!

[Anonymous]

I completely agree with you OP because my husband and I and our kids look stereotypically like “brown Latinos”. I really thought it would be better for my kids in their supposedly liberal upper middle class public school. I am continually appalled at how so many teachers and other parents have negative stereotypes of them. So many negative assumptions or surprise that they speak English fluently, that they do well academically, that we are college graduates, etc. I could go on and on. They are never placed in the highest reading groups at the beginning because of negative assumptions by their teachers who then are shocked and call us telling us we should aim high and they should go to college and maybe not even a community college. Meanwhile my brother married someone extremely light skinned. His kids mark Latino but look like the are generic white and face none of the discrimination my kids face.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Latinos, we are not white enough, or black enough to “count”. Geez.

But you get yo take advantage of affirmative action while some can still receive or be entitled to white privilege. Good deal!

But if you are a white Latino then you get the side eye from people like OP.