I believe in affirmative action and racially balanced educational environments but...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the end result for these TJ graduates? Do they end up being far more successful than everyone else in the country? Really, I don’t think this even matters. You can have your little school. It’s becoming tedious and boring now.

They conduct research in medicine, chemistry , physics, engineering and computer science etc. They create startups and tech companies responsible for innovations and patents. They become professors to train college students.

Surely these positions are attainable by other means. TJ isn’t the be all end all?

Then the question is what percentage? I suspect substantial number of TJ graduates compared to 1 or 2 percent for a typical high school.

Suspicion is not the same as proof but the unfettered arrogance of the TJ community requires swift action to dismantle this racist, elitist school.

All this is funny because TJ as it was in the 90s was the biggest way to reduce inequality. You just had to test in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've seen what's happening to TJ in other places. For example, once upon a time, the Internet was a fairly exclusive place - to use it, you'd need to have access (meaning most likely that you're affiliated with a university), you'd need the technical know-how to use it (computers weren't as universally user-friendly as they are now), and you'd need the money for the equipment (meaning a computer and Internet connection and/or the enrollment fees for a university). They weren't insurmountable barriers to entry, but they were barriers to entry, and the result was an Internet which was a bastion of wisdom.

Now the Internet has over-time become a bastion of reactionism and misinformation. Why? Because now, basically anyone can use the Internet, from kids to the most vile and ignorant people out there. You can get Internet access at Starbucks or the public library, and getting at least a user-friendly second-hand computer isn't much of a challenge. The information on the Internet hasn't disappeared, but it's been flooded by so much other stuff. People don't see that bastion of wisdom that the Internet once was as being that important anymore.

I think that what's happening to TJ (and APP, and advanced/GT programs in general) is just a reflection of that phenomenon. It's not that the academic needs of advanced and gifted students are necessarily better met now, or that their contribution to society is less significant than it once was. It's more like how we also cause the habitats of many species of bees, butterflies, frogs, etc, to disappear without realizing it, because the resources we can reappropriate from them are much more appealing. I don't know what resources administrators see in TJ which they'd like to reappropriate for their use, but I think that equity is less of a goal and more of a focus-group tested go to move to achieve whatever they're after. If equity was a goal, I'm suspecting that it would be possible to find much better strategies (including but not limited to spending the effort to identify minorities which benefit from a particular set of circumstances - like AAs - and then making sure not to disrupt them...)

Yeah, not at all on point.

Yeah, I think I'll stcik with my opinion over random reason-free anonymous internet commenter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:look they have tried this before. They have lowered standards to try and get URM and then TJ has to offer remedial classes.

TJ should not be having to offer remedial classes they should be taking the best students period

Long term if you want to "fix" the FARMS/URM AAP needs to do a better job selecting gifted students instead of being used by pushy parents with above average students (but not always gifted) to get out of the gen ed curriculum.

The reason remedial classes had to be offered at TJ a few years ago was not that they had lowered standards. Actually, the reason was that so many kids had been prepped and tutored so that they appeared to be better at math than they actually were.

The overly prepped kids got to TJ and it was obvious to their math teachers that their fundamentals were weak, so the teachers required them to do remedial work during eighth period. This situation was part of the reason behind the overhaul of the TJ math program a few years ago.

So the new TJ students have not prepped for at least past 9 years. I knew there wasn't as much prep going on as suggested by a poster who seems obsessed with one prep center.

No, they changed the math curriculum so that they could build up math foundations in kids who were not actually as advanced as their parents thought they were. Many of the kids are very prepped but they don’t have a strong understanding of the concepts, so TJ has to make sure they get a stronger foundation before they let them move on in math.

[Anonymous]

Wrong. You clearly know nothing about the caliber of students that actually attend TJ. These kids are exceptional and work hard - a formidable combination. Test prep was part of their dedication to their end goal. We would be admiring these kids if they were studying, prepping, and working out everyday because it was their dream to go to the Air Force Academy and they were committed to working hard to get there. But because this is a high school for nerds and these kids are mostly Asian we crap on them and their families for their dedication to their goal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wrong. You clearly know nothing about the caliber of students that actually attend TJ. These kids are exceptional and work hard - a formidable combination. Test prep was part of their dedication to their end goal. We would be admiring these kids if they were studying, prepping, and working out everyday because it was their dream to go to the Air Force Academy and they were committed to working hard to get there. But because this is a high school for nerds and these kids are mostly Asian we crap on them and their families for their dedication to their goal.

That's right. And racists seem to forget that TJ and the test has been around for decades, during most of such time whites were the majority. I know for a fact that many whites were prepping to get in in the early 90's, but I guess that was ok because they're white and they're geniuses regardless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wrong. You clearly know nothing about the caliber of students that actually attend TJ. These kids are exceptional and work hard - a formidable combination. Test prep was part of their dedication to their end goal. We would be admiring these kids if they were studying, prepping, and working out everyday because it was their dream to go to the Air Force Academy and they were committed to working hard to get there. But because this is a high school for nerds and these kids are mostly Asian we crap on them and their families for their dedication to their goal.

That's right. And racists seem to forget that TJ and the test has been around for decades, during most of such time whites were the majority. I know for a fact that many whites were prepping to get in in the early 90's, but I guess that was ok because they're white and they're geniuses regardless.

it doesn't matter. race and skin color are more powerful assets than being smart at the moment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wrong. You clearly know nothing about the caliber of students that actually attend TJ. These kids are exceptional and work hard - a formidable combination. Test prep was part of their dedication to their end goal. We would be admiring these kids if they were studying, prepping, and working out everyday because it was their dream to go to the Air Force Academy and they were committed to working hard to get there. But because this is a high school for nerds and these kids are mostly Asian we crap on them and their families for their dedication to their goal.

That's right. And racists seem to forget that TJ and the test has been around for decades, during most of such time whites were the majority. I know for a fact that many whites were prepping to get in in the early 90's, but I guess that was ok because they're white and they're geniuses regardless.

it doesn't matter. race and skin color are more powerful assets than being smart at the moment.

Always asking for a handout.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lol speak for yourself. I don't believe in affirmative action and neither does half the country. It will eventually be outlawed nationwide, just might take a decade or so.

This is not in place to help URMs. Affirmative Action is used by Whites to block Asian-Americans.

The numbers of URMs who apply to programs is so low that even if all are taken it will not impact others too much. It is just that Whites are not able to sacrifice as much as the Asian-Americans for academic results and things had always come easy to Whites without effort. Now they are incapable of competing with Asian-Americans but with the new changes the group that will benefit is average Whites from MC or UMC families.

As a white person, I’m happy to be used as the white bogey man if it makes you feel better and especially if it makes you talk sense into people who want to destroy the academic integrity of the premier high school in the DMV, (and also one of the top 5 high schools in the nation) in the name of equity. But I assure you most of “us” hold the opinion that hard work and academic merit/achievement should be rewarded. (After all, didn’t the Smithsonian just release a document insisting this type of value was an indicator of “whiteness” ) so I am 100% all about supporting admission for students who make the cut regardless of their race or ethnicity. And yes, even when that means TJ is 70% Asian.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:...not lowering academic standards to achieve that. How can we achieve racial balance at TJ without lowering academic standards?

I fully support schools like Harvard and Yale using holistic admissions to create a balanced class. However, they are able to do that without having to fundamentally change their academic standards that make them excellent and sought-after because they have tens of thousands of applicants for a limited number of seats, most of which are extremely qualified based on test scores (except recently), GPA, course rigor, extracurriculars, etc... Chances are, even if the accepted URMs qualifications are slightly lower than the average accepted student, they are still most likely sufficiently qualified to function in the existing curriculum.

The problem with the current TJ admissions proposals is there is really nothing to show that the applicant is capable of handling an advanced STEM curriculum. The test wasn't perfect, but at least it showed ability to be able to pass it, which showed understanding of a certain level of material (not just ability to take a test). A 3.5 GPA unfortunately doesn't say much about ability in FCPS, without knowing the courses taken, the grades in the science and math classes, whether the courses are gen ed, honors or aap, and the middle school's grade curve. For example, if many of the kids who end up getting in happen to be gen ed students with B's in science and math, the TJ curriculum and standards will necessarily have to be lowered. This is a ludicrous result. I don't believe that the institution that are currently moving towards holistic admissions would do so if it meant they had to fundamentally lower their educational standards in order to achieve diversity.

How can we achieve diversity without changing the excellence that makes TJ sought-after in the first place?

There is no other way - a system that's racially balanced but academically lacking or a system that academically excels but racially unbalanced. Can not have both ways.

Bingo.

"However, they are able to do that without having to fundamentally change their academic standards that make them excellent and sought-after because they have tens of thousands of applicants"

Not true! SAT data by race at Harvard shows that "BIPOCS" have average scores far below the acceptable level for Asians and whites.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:...not lowering academic standards to achieve that. How can we achieve racial balance at TJ without lowering academic standards?

I fully support schools like Harvard and Yale using holistic admissions to create a balanced class. However, they are able to do that without having to fundamentally change their academic standards that make them excellent and sought-after because they have tens of thousands of applicants for a limited number of seats, most of which are extremely qualified based on test scores (except recently), GPA, course rigor, extracurriculars, etc... Chances are, even if the accepted URMs qualifications are slightly lower than the average accepted student, they are still most likely sufficiently qualified to function in the existing curriculum.

The problem with the current TJ admissions proposals is there is really nothing to show that the applicant is capable of handling an advanced STEM curriculum. The test wasn't perfect, but at least it showed ability to be able to pass it, which showed understanding of a certain level of material (not just ability to take a test). A 3.5 GPA unfortunately doesn't say much about ability in FCPS, without knowing the courses taken, the grades in the science and math classes, whether the courses are gen ed, honors or aap, and the middle school's grade curve. For example, if many of the kids who end up getting in happen to be gen ed students with B's in science and math, the TJ curriculum and standards will necessarily have to be lowered. This is a ludicrous result. I don't believe that the institution that are currently moving towards holistic admissions would do so if it meant they had to fundamentally lower their educational standards in order to achieve diversity.

How can we achieve diversity without changing the excellence that makes TJ sought-after in the first place?

There is no other way - a system that's racially balanced but academically lacking or a system that academically excels but racially unbalanced. Can not have both ways.

Bingo.

"However, they are able to do that without having to fundamentally change their academic standards that make them excellent and sought-after because they have tens of thousands of applicants"

Not true! SAT data by race at Harvard shows that "BIPOCS" have average scores far below the acceptable level for Asians and whites.

That's only because 7(2x - 3) = 21 is racially biased. Systemically racist even. They need more racially balanced questions on the SAT. Like, "How did you feel when you look at math problem: A. Yes, B. Maybe, C. No"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lol speak for yourself. I don't believe in affirmative action and neither does half the country. It will eventually be outlawed nationwide, just might take a decade or so.

This is not in place to help URMs. Affirmative Action is used by Whites to block Asian-Americans.

The numbers of URMs who apply to programs is so low that even if all are taken it will not impact others too much. It is just that Whites are not able to sacrifice as much as the Asian-Americans for academic results and things had always come easy to Whites without effort. Now they are incapable of competing with Asian-Americans but with the new changes the group that will benefit is average Whites from MC or UMC families.

As a white person, I’m happy to be used as the white bogey man if it makes you feel better and especially if it makes you talk sense into people who want to destroy the academic integrity of the premier high school in the DMV, (and also one of the top 5 high schools in the nation) in the name of equity. But I assure you most of “us” hold the opinion that hard work and academic merit/achievement should be rewarded. (After all, didn’t the Smithsonian just release a document insisting this type of value was an indicator of “whiteness” ) so I am 100% all about supporting admission for students who make the cut regardless of their race or ethnicity. And yes, even when that means TJ is 70% Asian.

+1

[Anonymous]

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:...not lowering academic standards to achieve that. How can we achieve racial balance at TJ without lowering academic standards?

I fully support schools like Harvard and Yale using holistic admissions to create a balanced class. However, they are able to do that without having to fundamentally change their academic standards that make them excellent and sought-after because they have tens of thousands of applicants for a limited number of seats, most of which are extremely qualified based on test scores (except recently), GPA, course rigor, extracurriculars, etc... Chances are, even if the accepted URMs qualifications are slightly lower than the average accepted student, they are still most likely sufficiently qualified to function in the existing curriculum.

The problem with the current TJ admissions proposals is there is really nothing to show that the applicant is capable of handling an advanced STEM curriculum. The test wasn't perfect, but at least it showed ability to be able to pass it, which showed understanding of a certain level of material (not just ability to take a test). A 3.5 GPA unfortunately doesn't say much about ability in FCPS, without knowing the courses taken, the grades in the science and math classes, whether the courses are gen ed, honors or aap, and the middle school's grade curve. For example, if many of the kids who end up getting in happen to be gen ed students with B's in science and math, the TJ curriculum and standards will necessarily have to be lowered. This is a ludicrous result. I don't believe that the institution that are currently moving towards holistic admissions would do so if it meant they had to fundamentally lower their educational standards in order to achieve diversity.

How can we achieve diversity without changing the excellence that makes TJ sought-after in the first place?

There is no other way - a system that's racially balanced but academically lacking or a system that academically excels but racially unbalanced. Can not have both ways.

Bingo.

"However, they are able to do that without having to fundamentally change their academic standards that make them excellent and sought-after because they have tens of thousands of applicants"

Not true! SAT data by race at Harvard shows that "BIPOCS" have average scores far below the acceptable level for Asians and whites.

No, you missed my point. The admissions SAT standard was lowered, but the curriculum they teach at Harvard wasn't lowered because the vast majority of attendees have high qualifications based on test scores, grades, course rigor, etc...so they will be capable of handling the challenging Harvard curriculum. With a lottery and a low bar of 3.5 and algebra, the likelihood of the admittees being able to handle the challenging TJ curriculum is low, so the curriculum will have to be changed.