I believe in affirmative action and racially balanced educational environments but...

[Anonymous]

Need to improve education for all students at the ES and MS level. The one thing that the majority of White and Asian. MC and UMC parents have in common is that they realize the need to correct or complete the information taught at the schools in the early grades. Yes, there are enrichment activities going on, but I do notice that the majority of the parents who are taking the time to oversee their children's ES homework and class work to make sure there are no knowledge gaps (created by lack of context in the photocopied worksheets being used in schools). I think the 1st generation immigrant parents may rely more on learning centers to fill the obvious gaps probably due to their lack of familiarity with the curriculum. American-born parents often recognize and help fill these gaps themselves. Most of this happen at the MC Nd UMC income levels. Once we improve general education so that the schools are providing the necessary education on their own, we should see a much smaller gap in the resulting abilities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Did you read the thread about grades? The problem isn't equity, the problem is that the school is unattractive to a lot of potential applicants, to qualified students of all races including URMs. Remaking the school will make it more attractive to more students.

Remaking the school into a mediocre one will make it more attractive to more mediocre students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you read the thread about grades? The problem isn't equity, the problem is that the school is unattractive to a lot of potential applicants, to qualified students of all races including URMs. Remaking the school will make it more attractive to more students.

Remaking the school into a mediocre one will make it more attractive to more mediocre students.

You just sound like a complainer now.

Try again with a better post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:...not lowering academic standards to achieve that. How can we achieve racial balance at TJ without lowering academic standards?

I fully support schools like Harvard and Yale using holistic admissions to create a balanced class. However, they are able to do that without having to fundamentally change their academic standards that make them excellent and sought-after because they have tens of thousands of applicants for a limited number of seats, most of which are extremely qualified based on test scores (except recently), GPA, course rigor, extracurriculars, etc... Chances are, even if the accepted URMs qualifications are slightly lower than the average accepted student, they are still most likely sufficiently qualified to function in the existing curriculum.

The problem with the current TJ admissions proposals is there is really nothing to show that the applicant is capable of handling an advanced STEM curriculum. The test wasn't perfect, but at least it showed ability to be able to pass it, which showed understanding of a certain level of material (not just ability to take a test). A 3.5 GPA unfortunately doesn't say much about ability in FCPS, without knowing the courses taken, the grades in the science and math classes, whether the courses are gen ed, honors or aap, and the middle school's grade curve. For example, if many of the kids who end up getting in happen to be gen ed students with B's in science and math, the TJ curriculum and standards will necessarily have to be lowered. This is a ludicrous result. I don't believe that the institution that are currently moving towards holistic admissions would do so if it meant they had to fundamentally lower their educational standards in order to achieve diversity.

How can we achieve diversity without changing the excellence that makes TJ sought-after in the first place?

There is no other way - a system that's racially balanced but academically lacking or a system that academically excels but racially unbalanced. Can not have both ways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:...not lowering academic standards to achieve that. How can we achieve racial balance at TJ without lowering academic standards?

I fully support schools like Harvard and Yale using holistic admissions to create a balanced class. However, they are able to do that without having to fundamentally change their academic standards that make them excellent and sought-after because they have tens of thousands of applicants for a limited number of seats, most of which are extremely qualified based on test scores (except recently), GPA, course rigor, extracurriculars, etc... Chances are, even if the accepted URMs qualifications are slightly lower than the average accepted student, they are still most likely sufficiently qualified to function in the existing curriculum.

The problem with the current TJ admissions proposals is there is really nothing to show that the applicant is capable of handling an advanced STEM curriculum. The test wasn't perfect, but at least it showed ability to be able to pass it, which showed understanding of a certain level of material (not just ability to take a test). A 3.5 GPA unfortunately doesn't say much about ability in FCPS, without knowing the courses taken, the grades in the science and math classes, whether the courses are gen ed, honors or aap, and the middle school's grade curve. For example, if many of the kids who end up getting in happen to be gen ed students with B's in science and math, the TJ curriculum and standards will necessarily have to be lowered. This is a ludicrous result. I don't believe that the institution that are currently moving towards holistic admissions would do so if it meant they had to fundamentally lower their educational standards in order to achieve diversity.

How can we achieve diversity without changing the excellence that makes TJ sought-after in the first place?

There is no other way - a system that's racially balanced but academically lacking or a system that academically excels but racially unbalanced. Can not have both ways.

Not true. Sorry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:...not lowering academic standards to achieve that. How can we achieve racial balance at TJ without lowering academic standards?

I fully support schools like Harvard and Yale using holistic admissions to create a balanced class. However, they are able to do that without having to fundamentally change their academic standards that make them excellent and sought-after because they have tens of thousands of applicants for a limited number of seats, most of which are extremely qualified based on test scores (except recently), GPA, course rigor, extracurriculars, etc... Chances are, even if the accepted URMs qualifications are slightly lower than the average accepted student, they are still most likely sufficiently qualified to function in the existing curriculum.

The problem with the current TJ admissions proposals is there is really nothing to show that the applicant is capable of handling an advanced STEM curriculum. The test wasn't perfect, but at least it showed ability to be able to pass it, which showed understanding of a certain level of material (not just ability to take a test). A 3.5 GPA unfortunately doesn't say much about ability in FCPS, without knowing the courses taken, the grades in the science and math classes, whether the courses are gen ed, honors or aap, and the middle school's grade curve. For example, if many of the kids who end up getting in happen to be gen ed students with B's in science and math, the TJ curriculum and standards will necessarily have to be lowered. This is a ludicrous result. I don't believe that the institution that are currently moving towards holistic admissions would do so if it meant they had to fundamentally lower their educational standards in order to achieve diversity.

How can we achieve diversity without changing the excellence that makes TJ sought-after in the first place?

There is no other way - a system that's racially balanced but academically lacking or a system that academically excels but racially unbalanced. Can not have both ways.

Not true. Sorry.

Don't be sorry - it's true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Did you read the thread about grades? The problem isn't equity, the problem is that the school is unattractive to a lot of potential applicants, to qualified students of all races including URMs. Remaking the school will make it more attractive to more students.

The school is unattractive because the grading is really tough, and you need to maintain an overall B average to even stay in the school. If you look at high school as purely a stepping stone to college and not as a learning experience in itself, they would be better off in their base schools where they can effortlessly maintain a high GPA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you read the thread about grades? The problem isn't equity, the problem is that the school is unattractive to a lot of potential applicants, to qualified students of all races including URMs. Remaking the school will make it more attractive to more students.

The school is unattractive because the grading is really tough, and you need to maintain an overall B average to even stay in the school. If you look at high school as purely a stepping stone to college and not as a learning experience in itself, they would be better off in their base schools where they can effortlessly maintain a high GPA.

That's ... not the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you read the thread about grades? The problem isn't equity, the problem is that the school is unattractive to a lot of potential applicants, to qualified students of all races including URMs. Remaking the school will make it more attractive to more students.

The school is unattractive because the grading is really tough, and you need to maintain an overall B average to even stay in the school. If you look at high school as purely a stepping stone to college and not as a learning experience in itself, they would be better off in their base schools where they can effortlessly maintain a high GPA.

That's ... not the problem.

Does that mean they're getting rid of the requirement to maintain a B average just to stay in the school?

[Anonymous]

look they have tried this before. They have lowered standards to try and get URM and then TJ has to offer remedial classes.

TJ should not be having to offer remedial classes they should be taking the best students period

Long term if you want to "fix" the FARMS/URM AAP needs to do a better job selecting gifted students instead of being used by pushy parents with above average students (but not always gifted) to get out of the gen ed curriculum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:look they have tried this before. They have lowered standards to try and get URM and then TJ has to offer remedial classes.

TJ should not be having to offer remedial classes they should be taking the best students period

Long term if you want to "fix" the FARMS/URM AAP needs to do a better job selecting gifted students instead of being used by pushy parents with above average students (but not always gifted) to get out of the gen ed curriculum.

They are not interested in a real solution that takes effort. They just want to pander to blacks and screw Asians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no idea, but I agree with you that the cost of equity is too high if it means we have to compromise on academic excellence.

+1. Doing so would do an injustice to the patronized students, our region, our country and society in general. I'm hopeful they find a way to implement this is a rational way.

+2

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lol speak for yourself. I don't believe in affirmative action and neither does half the country. It will eventually be outlawed nationwide, just might take a decade or so.

This is not in place to help URMs. Affirmative Action is used by Whites to block Asian-Americans.

The numbers of URMs who apply to programs is so low that even if all are taken it will not impact others too much. It is just that Whites are not able to sacrifice as much as the Asian-Americans for academic results and things had always come easy to Whites without effort. Now they are incapable of competing with Asian-Americans but with the new changes the group that will benefit is average Whites from MC or UMC families.

This proposed change was made for URMs, at their request. Your opinion is wrong.

Agree, that PP’s take was incorrect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:look they have tried this before. They have lowered standards to try and get URM and then TJ has to offer remedial classes.

TJ should not be having to offer remedial classes they should be taking the best students period

Long term if you want to "fix" the FARMS/URM AAP needs to do a better job selecting gifted students instead of being used by pushy parents with above average students (but not always gifted) to get out of the gen ed curriculum.

They are not interested in a real solution that takes effort. They just want to pander to blacks and screw Asians.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:look they have tried this before. They have lowered standards to try and get URM and then TJ has to offer remedial classes.

TJ should not be having to offer remedial classes they should be taking the best students period

Long term if you want to "fix" the FARMS/URM AAP needs to do a better job selecting gifted students instead of being used by pushy parents with above average students (but not always gifted) to get out of the gen ed curriculum.

They are not interested in a real solution that takes effort. They just want to pander to blacks and screw Asians.

+1

all of this is being driven by the NAACP and a couple school board members, the rest of the board needs to tell them to shutup and stand down